Dress Code Noordam

[RevNeal]

[quote name='snownyet']I think youre taking this a bit far! Im not new to HAL, and in fact took my cue of dressing down after dinner by looking around at others on previous HAL cruises who didnt stand out but rather looked comfortable, I loathe ties and my wife loathes the shoes.[/QUOTE]

Hmmm ... well ... I also take my cue regarding people feeling underdressed when they've ventured out on formal night in shorts and t-shirts because I've overheard them whispering to each other as they pass behind me in the Ocean Bar "I didn't realize we'd be the only ones not dressed up."

When I served as Chaplain one cruise I was sitting in the Ocean Bar, sipping a brandy, late in the evening. A guy came in dressed in slacks and polo. It was formal night. He came over and sat down next to me and we chatted for about 40 minutes about my sermon that morning, church, politics ... all the stuff we're not supposed to talk about aboard ship! But ... that happens, sometimes, when I'm dressed in clericals. Anyway ... after a while he asked me "So, is it pretty normal for most HAL passengers to dress up for formal dinner?" I replied that, in my experience and observation, it was ... and that it was formal night, not formal dinner. He asked me what I meant, so I explained. He admitted to noticing that, and to feeling quite out of place in the Explorer's Lounge earlier that evening when he was the only man not wearing a jacket. I asked him if it bothered him, sticking out so, and he nodded and said "I didn't think it would, but it did. My brother had told me not to worry about dress codes, that he'd been on Carnival and it didn't matter ... most guys would ignore it. But that's not the case here." I smiled and said "it's not." Later that cruise I saw him in a jacket on formal night ... he admitted that he had brought one jacket, thinking he might need it, and now he was very happy he had it ... because they let him into the main dining room for lobster tails.

[QUOTE]Whats kind of interesting is over the years Ive heard many talk of the "stuffy" types that frequent HAL, ironically after sailing I had never actually come in contact with the people that term made reference too....till I came here.[/QUOTE]

Define "stuffy." That's generally used as a pejorative term for people whom one thinks of as snooty, snotty, or "conceited." It's actually a highly objectionable criticism, at least in my opinion. "Stuffy is as stuffy does." Just because one likes dress codes, and abiding by them, doesn't make one stuffy. Just because one enjoys seeing others dressed according to the code also doesn't make one stuffy. How one treats someone else, in the flesh, is what truly matters. I've met "stuffy" people who were dressed casually.

[QUOTE]Im not talking walking around like a slob in gym shorts and a tank top, in fact I find it offensive you would simply assume what dressing down means and refer to anything outside of a tux or suit as sloppy or grungy. Im talking nice dress pants and stylish button down shirt... I suppose I should have cleared that up. If thats not good enough, my apologies.[/QUOTE]

I actually included casual (non-sloppy and non-grudge) clothing in my list, it's just that its these that really stick out. Those who are in slacks and button down shirt also stand out, but less-so. I just don't see why it's such a problem to throw at least a jacket on over that slacks and button-down shirt. It's not as if it's difficult to do. If you don't like ties, I can understand that (I don't like them either, and prefer to wear clericals instead).

I'm sorry if I offended you by grouping someone in "smart casual" attire with someone in shorts and t-shirts. There are different people advocating different levels of "undress" on this board, and they sometimes offer applause for each other in ways that make it look like they're in agreement. That can make it rather difficult to address this topic without a certain degree of "overkill" in some instances.

[Guest LoveMyBoxer]

This whole thread is getting really sad. One question for all of those who are against "dressing" according to what HAL "suggests": Why do you choose to sail Holland America? Comments to follow!

[megry]

Is it necessary for an 8th grade boy to wear a jacket on formal night, or is a dress shirt & tie adequate for a young teen?

[snownyet]

[quote name='revneal']Hmmm ... well ... I also take my cue regarding people feeling underdressed when they've ventured out on formal night in shorts and t-shirts because I've overheard them whispering to each other as they pass behind me in the Ocean Bar "I didn't realize we'd be the only ones not dressed up."

When I served as Chaplain one cruise I was sitting in the Ocean Bar, sipping a brandy, late in the evening. A guy came in dressed in slacks and polo. It was formal night. He came over and sat down next to me and we chatted for about 40 minutes about my sermon that morning, church, politics ... all the stuff we're not supposed to talk about aboard ship! But ... that happens, sometimes, when I'm dressed in clericals. Anyway ... after a while he asked me "So, is it pretty normal for most HAL passengers to dress up for formal dinner?" I replied that, in my experience and observation, it was ... and that it was formal night, not formal dinner. He asked me what I meant, so I explained. He admitted to noticing that, and to feeling quite out of place in the Explorer's Lounge earlier that evening when he was the only man not wearing a jacket. I asked him if it bothered him, sticking out so, and he nodded and said "I didn't think it would, but it did. My brother had told me not to worry about dress codes, that he'd been on Carnival and it didn't matter ... most guys would ignore it. But that's not the case here." I smiled and said "it's not." Later that cruise I saw him in a jacket on formal night ... he admitted that he had brought one jacket, thinking he might need it, and now he was very happy he had it ... because they let him into the main dining room for lobster tails.



Define "stuffy." That's generally used as a pejorative term for people whom one thinks of as snooty, snotty, or "conceited." It's actually a highly objectionable criticism, at least in my opinion. "Stuffy is as stuffy does." Just because one likes dress codes, and abiding by them, doesn't make one stuffy. Just because one enjoys seeing others dressed according to the code also doesn't make one stuffy. How one treats someone else, in the flesh, is what truly matters. I've met "stuffy" people who were dressed casually.



I actually included casual (non-sloppy and non-grudge) clothing in my list, it's just that its these that really stick out. Those who are in slacks and button down shirt also stand out, but less-so. I just don't see why it's such a problem to throw at least a jacket on over that slacks and button-down shirt. It's not as if it's difficult to do. If you don't like ties, I can understand that (I don't like them either, and prefer to wear clericals instead).

I'm sorry if I offended you by grouping someone in "smart casual" attire with someone in shorts and t-shirts. There are different people advocating different levels of "undress" on this board, and they sometimes offer applause for each other in ways that make it look like they're in agreement. That can make it rather difficult to address this topic without a certain degree of "overkill" in some instances.[/quote]


I totally understand youre reasoning and respect that, as I hope you do mine. Ive never felt out of place after ditching the tux and while trying not to sound conceted, the wife and I are head turners when we dress for dinner. In addition, the more I think about it we do stay in formal dress(with tie in pocket) if the evening show we're attending is before or right after dinner, if we have a bunch of time to kill before the shows, we go back and change.

On a lighter note, when mentioning wearing clericals it spawned a memory of our Zuiderdam cruise, and it is dress code related...
We were seated at a table for 8 at dinner, on the first night we were the first to reach our table and we anxiously awaited meeting our fellow diners. As time passed all but one seat was filled at the table and we all introduced ourselves and the topic of the single open seat came up, moments later our final tablemate showed up, it was the ships chaplain. He was in his 70's and was dressed in dress pants and a silkscreened black hanes T shirt, that read "I love my German Shepard" across the front. On the back was a photo of the pope. LOL Appropriate dinner wear? Absolutely not, but it was one heck of an ice breaker, and more tasteful than the woman who wore a different NBA basketball jersey every night a couple tables over. What a wonderful man he was, wish I could recall his name.. it was Father something....LOL I hope someday to find him on another cruise.

[Opinions]

[quote name='LoveMyBoxer']This whole thread is getting really sad. One question for all of those who are against "dressing" according to what HAL "suggests": Why do you choose to sail Holland America? Comments to follow![/QUOTE]

I'm not against dressing according to what HAL "suggests"...I am for HAL perhaps changing what they suggest...The elimination of informal nights is one step in my opinion...I choose HAl because of their many unique itineraries not because of formal nights...I will follow the suggested code but reserve the right to petition for changes.

[RuthC]

[quote name='megry']Is it necessary for an 8th grade boy to wear a jacket on formal night, or is a dress shirt & tie adequate for a young teen?[/quote]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=royalblue]An 8th grade boy is typically 12-13; that makes him a young man. It's a good time to teach him how a gentleman dresses for dinner. [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=#4169e1]He'll probably change and go off to the teen center with others his age right after. [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[Guest LoveMyBoxer]

Petition for changes? That's what has and is becoming the downfall of mos cruise lines. Those of us who has grown up "cruising" have known what is expected when we cruise. Petitioning for changes is what become of NCL. It was once one up there with X and HAL. But now because people "petitioneed for change" it is to up to why you cruise on HAL. If you want or wish the HAL standards, would it really be so hard to dress in the manner that HAL "suggests"?

[Guest LoveMyBoxer]

[quote name='megry']Is it necessary for an 8th grade boy to wear a jacket on formal night, or is a dress shirt & tie adequate for a young teen?[/QUOTEMy son is not 8th grade, but 1st grade, and he was upset because he did not have a tux to wear like Daddy. DH and I were brought up with a certain standard and we are trying to instill that in our son. However, it seems that from his past four cruises, he seems to understand what class is & he chooses to dress according to the situationl, not how he wants to dress.

[twoatsea]

[COLOR=black]I know this is just a cruising message board & in life does not mount to a hill of beans, but I do wish folks wouldn't get so "ugly" towards each other. Anyway, I have some comments to add.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black] [/COLOR]
[B][U][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]HAL runs their cruiseline to maximize net profit & will do what sells[/FONT][/COLOR][/U][/B][COLOR=black]. That is the bottom line. That is why there have been so many changes on the HAL ships in just the last couple of years - decrease in dining room & other staff, luring families--free kids' fares--not upholding the adult only aft pool (usually)--otherwise not making changes to prevent the children from sometimes interfering with HAL's previous market base (us old & some of us traditional folks)--because HAL wants to encourage families not discourage them, a decrease of food selection & quality (no prime rib in the dining room on our '06 Alaska cruise, teeny lobsters, bad beef cuts, etc.), moving from traditional dining times to flexible, undesirable groups or a group that knocks confirmed diners out of time slots, and there are others I have not mentioned, and the never-ending dress code - not enforcing, which is basically loosening the dress code. Why? Refer to underlined statement above.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black] [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]So, IMO, the "old" HAL way is already gone & some just haven't read the writing on the wall (that's why for the 1st time in years, we are no longer doing our usual 3-4 times a year HAL cruises). HAL is not an [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Oceania[/COLOR][COLOR=black], a Cunard, etc. HAL is a mass market cruiseline (Fodors must be kidding someone!) & must compete with the other lines in it's market....or upgrade to Cunard, [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Oceania[/COLOR][COLOR=black], etc. standards - which appears is not to be the case. [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black] [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]So, how does the dress code get changed? Same as the rest of society's rules have changed - people refuse to abide. Long hair on men, slacks on women, no white gloves anymore, no dressup on planes, on & on. [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black] [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Now, is it "right" for people not to abide? That is what you all are arguing about. Right is what was thought when in the 1960's young men went into restaurants with long hair & were refused service - eat someplace else (sound familiar....cruise someplace else?)! That is what was thought when women attended church without heels & gloves - remember those looks from those religious folks (ummm, judging others?)? [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black] [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Things change when enough people decide it is time. Right or wrong does not stop change. The people who like to cruise HAL, but do not like to & do not dress for dinner, will cause the change. But, are they really breaking a rule....or a suggestion? If a rule is not enforced by HAL, then was it really a rule, or just a marketing ploy to continue to lure HAL's "old" market base. People still dress for dinner on Cunard, or they don't eat in the dining room - now that is a real rule! Right or wrong, this issue has already become a non-issue onboard HAL ships.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black] [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Now, this really does bug me! Anyone who reaches adulthood (in other words, no longer in high school) & feels badly about themselves because of the glares, looks, comments of others regarding their dress, has deeper problems than the way they are dressed. That person needs serious help.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black] [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Furthermore, (I guess I am feeling maternal tonite), anyone who glares, looks, comments at someone because of that person's dress, also needs serious help....or bless her heart, if my Mother was still alive, a few minutes with her would cure the problem! To be so judgemental & controlling - pity to their mate![/COLOR]
[COLOR=black] [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]OK, I shall now relinquish the very tattered soapbox & go on to more pleasant things![/COLOR]
[FONT=Times New Roman] [/FONT]
Happy sailings, everyone.

[caribbean girl]

[quote name='megry']Is it necessary for an 8th grade boy to wear a jacket on formal night, or is a dress shirt & tie adequate for a young teen?[/quote]

Your question is straightforward enough and I think it can easily be answered. ;) Your son will be just fine with a shirt and tie but would certainly look very handsome, as did our son, in a blazer. Our then 8th grader wore khaki pants with a white shirt, tie and navy blazer and looked very dapper for some family pictures we still display quite proudly. I hope you (and your son!:) )enjoy a wonderful cruise!

[SakeDad]

[quote name='megry']Is it necessary for an 8th grade boy to wear a jacket on formal night, or is a dress shirt & tie adequate for a young teen?[/quote]
My question would be "What is the rest of the family wearing?"
Is it fair to dress a young man up when the older family members aren't just because it would be cute? No. But if the rest of the family is dressed for formal night and the young man has expressed disdain for such attire I say it's high time to learn the lesson that sometimes society dictates what you wear, not your mood. If the man in question one day has a job that requires him to dress in uniform will he one day say he doesn't feel like it?
It's our responsibility as elders to teach children not only how to dress but how to feel GOOD about how they are dressed. This includes jeans and tank-tops and shorts all the way through tuxedos for weddings and cruises.

[caribbean girl]

Did the young man in question express 'desdain' for having to dress up? I don't remember that being part of the question. Perhaps I missed something, though...

[SakeDad]

[quote name='caribbean girl']Did the young man in question express 'desdain' for having to dress up? I don't remember that being part of the question. Perhaps I missed something, though...[/quote]

Maybe not, but I could imagine the conversation with Mom...."You've never made me wear that before why should I now?" or "My cousin looks like a FREAK in that...I'm not wearing it!" or "I'm not gonna wear it!! You can't make me!!" and a 1,000 other scenarios!! I just assume Mom had a reason for asking this question! And I don't think it was HER idea for the kid not to dress for dinner!;)

[Copper10-8]

[quote name='snownyet'].......... Ive never felt out of place after ditching the tux and while trying not to sound conceted, the wife and I are head turners when we dress for dinner....... .[/quote]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=navy]Now, that sentence caught my attention;) Obviously, you don't have to but would you mind telling us why that is? Are you both so stunning (or dress so immaculate) that people naturally turn their heads or have you maybe walked into the dining room one time trailing a piece of toilet paper without knowing it;) [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=navy][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[caribbean girl]

[quote name='SakeDad']Maybe not, but I could imagine the conversation with Mom...."You've never made me wear that before why should I now?" or "My cousin looks like a FREAK in that...I'm not wearing it!" or "I'm not gonna wear it!! You can't make me!!" and a 1,000 other scenarios!! I just assume Mom had a reason for asking this question! And I don't think it was HER idea for the kid not to dress for dinner!;)[/quote]

Our son didn't complain...he looked pretty dapper, I might add. He is now a 10th grader and owns his own, snazzy Banana Republic suit!!

By the way, I like the shirt you're wearing in your website, SakeDad...very nice indeed.;) Cheers...

[SakeDad]

By the way, I like the shirt you're wearing on your website, SakeDad...very nice indeed.;) Cheers...

 

Thanks, Perry Ellis I think:rolleyes:

[caribbean girl]

Thanks, Perry Ellis I think:rolleyes:

 

Nice photo with Robert Goulet...didn't know he was still alive! I can't sleep...thanks for the (free) 'entertainment'.;)

[Copper10-8]

Nice photo with Robert Goulet...didn't know he was still alive! I can't sleep...thanks for the (free) 'entertainment'.;)

 

 

For God's sake, Alcirita! It's almost 3 in the morning in Amish country!:eek:

SakeDad; you've got some awesome pics in that site of yours! Outstanding quality!

[caribbean girl]

For God's sake, Alcirita! It's almost 3 in the morning in Amish country!:eek:

 

SakeDad; you've got some awesome pics in that site of yours! Outstanding quality!

 

I've got a terrible cold and am all souped up on antihistimines...can't sleep. Been looking at SakeDad's pics, too. :rolleyes:

 

The question is.... DO YOU FEEL OLDER YET?:eek:

[Copper10-8]

I've got a terrible cold and am all souped up on antihistimines...can't sleep. Been looking at SakeDad's pics, too. :rolleyes:

 

The question is.... DO YOU FEEL OLDER YET?:eek:

 

Well, go outside and run around the house a few times!

Do I feel older? Not really, I'm still younger than you!:D ;)

[caribbean girl]

Well, go outside and run around the house a few times!

 

Do I feel older? Not really, I'm still younger than you!:D ;)

 

 

Sure, sure...you wish!! :) Anyway...I'm still better looking!

 

Go and see who's shown up to wish you a happy birthday on the other thread...all kids of fun folks!!

 

P.S. The wine card will be on the way. I didn't get it out to you yet...too sick:o

[SakeDad]

Yes, dear Robert is still with us....as is Tony Curtis who I ave also worked with, though no pics on the sight.

Happy birthday, Copper!

[snownyet]

Now, that sentence caught my attention;) Obviously, you don't have to but would you mind telling us why that is? Are you both so stunning (or dress so immaculate) that people naturally turn their heads or have you maybe walked into the dining room one time trailing a piece of toilet paper without knowing it;)

 

Naa were just both so darn sexy people cant help but look...LOL

[hammybee]

 

or have you maybe walked into the dining room one time trailing a piece of toilet paper without knowing it;)

 

So we have cruised together.......:)

[Copper10-8]

Naa were just both so darn sexy people cant help but look...LOL

 

OK, Brad and Angelina, Got it!;)

So we have cruised together.......:)

 

That wasn't me! I caught it waaaay before that!