Delayed flight equals missed cruise

[A Sixth?]

What's everyone's opinion of a 45 minute layover at JFK to make a connecting flight? The incoming Comair flight is from Montreal (and will have cleared US Customs in Montreal) and the Delta flight is heading to San Juan. (terminal change?)

[spongerob]

Nonstop airfare between Chicago and Houston is around $190 on American, Continental and United. There are only 3 flights between Wichita and Houston. I really can't figure out how they came up with ORD-ICT-IAH, it just doesn't make any sense.

It especially doesn't make a lot of sense because it requires an interline transfer, and there isn't a direct flight after 10:35A on any airline that would permit anyone to get to Houston in time to board the ship.

 

It kind of makes me wonder why cruise lines would even offer air during some times of the year. Short of gross incompetence, which I don't believe is the case because someone really had to dig hard to find this itinerary, this looks like an itinerary born out of desperation. Why offer cruise air at all during peak travel times? The cruise lines use consolidators to purchase cheap seats, and when lots of people are going places, those seats might not be available.

 

I think the OP would have a case against Princess had the flight from Chicago not been delayed. Once they experienced that delay in Chicago, the rest of the itinerary is irrelevant. Their lack of passports made it impossible for Princess to try and get them to the ship. As stated by the OP.

[City_Woman]

I am very sorry this happened to you.

 

We always book our own air and fly at least 1 day before the cruise sails.

 

On our very first cruise our flight was cancelled about 10 minutes after it was supposed to leave. The first solution they gave us was a flight that arrived AFTER the ship sailed.

 

We had a good news story: we made our cruise. However, our very first embarkation photo has us looking like we've been through the wringer and we swore then we'd never fly the same day as the ship sails.

 

Again, I am very sorry.

 

Judy

[CruisenOne]

What's everyone's opinion of a 45 minute layover at JFK to make a connecting flight? (terminal change?)

 

 

We will be flying through JFK to Israel at the end of the month.

 

I have a four hour window built-in for transferring between airlines and

terminals at JFK. I know that Security will be an issue.

We have learnt, over the years, to allow for the unexpected.

We always allow AT LEAST two hours if we are connecting to another flight (same airline) or another airline.

[Coral]

 

First off --

We are not "Princess Cheer Leaders". That said, it is OUR responsibility to

check airline connection times between flights!!!

 

It appears, in this day and age, that no one wants to take responsibility

for their own incompetence.

 

Let the "Flaming" begin !!!

 

I totally agree!

 

Princess can't be responsible for what an airline does. And for those who think that Princess is, read the fine print - they are not responsible. They act as a booking agent for airlines for customers convenience. You don't have to book through Princess for the air.

 

I have had enough nightmare of air situations on flights that I have booked on my own. Things happen if you book your air through Princess or on your own.

 

I am glad the OP had insurance.

[Fred&Lily]

I've missed flights due to weather out of Toronto, but fortunately never missed a cruise. If the flight is a direct non-stop charter as part of the cruise package, I buy it, otherwise ALWAYS book your own air two days pre-cruise. That way you know you'll have all your bags, recover from the jet-lag and can take few walks on the beach to get your sanity back and into cruise mode. Lily and I work in offices all year just like most of you, but we've learned that two-weeks is a proper vacation and one-week leaving day-of is too stressfull.

[A Sixth?]

[quote name='CruisenOne']We will be flying through JFK to Israel at the end of the month.

I have a four hour window built-in for transferring between airlines and
terminals at JFK. I know that Security will be an issue.
We have learnt, over the years, to allow for the unexpected.
We always allow AT LEAST two hours if we are connecting to another flight (same airline) or another airline.[/quote]


Hmm, I regularly go with 1 1/2 hours and do alright, and security will already be cleared in Montreal..... hmmm

[Jimsgirl]

I have posted this on other board, but it is very relevant here. Princess air dept, never THINKS, they simply psch the computer button, if the programe says if " X flight arrives at Y time and W flight take off at Z time" then that is all they see

That X comes in at terminal A and W leaves at Terminal E ( a long long way away) does not enter into the mix. or their heads

Not even paying a deviation fee will save you I paid it and Princess changed my arrangements without asking me , and without thought and not until I received the final documents . My original flight was still flying , still had seats vacant., and still would have given me over an hour to make the connection. Princess changed it and cut the time to less than 30 mins. Even a 10 min late arrival would have left me stranded for the night in Houston. and NO ONE WOULD HAVE CARED.the air line was not responsible for Princess Air Depts lack of thought. Princess would not have cared they had already had my money (including the fee I paid for a service I did not get from them) The TA would not have cared, she had her commission for the cruise - in fact she never even noticed the change in flight number and time.

The bottom line is the passenger pays for so called "expertise" and gets a robot button pusher who operates on a programmed remote control.

[boatfloat]

[quote name='seattleadjuster']Here is my take. Princess knowingly booked you with a tight connection. They should have assisted with alternate travel arrangements and delayed the ship. Since they did not, at a minimum they should offer you another comparable trip with airfare. Those who say Princess is not responsible for AAL are wrong. Did you notice when people were poisoned by the food at Taco Bell that Taco Bell and the supplier were liable, not merely the supplier? Here, Princess chose AAL.

As to airlines, whether it is a mechanical, weather, or other delay is always difficult to actually tell. Have you ever noticed an aircraft sitting at a gate, with its door closed? Thats an example of manipulating data, so they can report an on-time departure. I worked for a federal agency, and from my experience, I always said that the only FAA statistic that could be relied upon was the number of aircraft fatalities. Why? Because those statistics are easily monitored by outside groups. I personally observed an FAA inspection where a runway incursion occurred in front of an inspector, and it was ignored by all parties, despite a directive that it had to be reported within a certain number of hours.

I would contact a local law firm in Los Angeles (I believe that's where venue lies) to seek if they can affordably assist you. I'm sure there are some that specialize in this area affordably.

Now my tongue in cheek reply. Had Princess done the right thing and waited for you, we know it wouldn't have affected their itinerary by a late departure, because they made up time on the actual cruise, after taking many hours to recover the swimmers. Also, had they waited for you, the swimmers would have partied in port, and fallen overboard in port, hopefully falling on the water side of the ship. Princess would have easily recovered the swimmers in port and saved many lost hours of searching for the swimmers. Princess could have kept bars open, and not sent everybody to their rooms. Princess wouldn't have exhausted the workers by having them up in the middle of the night. It looks to me like by Princess doing the wrong thing with you, a direct consequence of that action was the swimmers falling overboard in the middle of the gulf and not in port! You should get a class action together for all passengers who were inconvenienced by the swimmers, since that wouldn't have happened had the ship waited for you! Of course, had the ship stayed in port, and the swimmers fell over on the land side of the ship, they probably would have sued Princess because "but for Princess' actions in delaying departure, the swimmers would have fallen overboard in the open sea, and not 60 feet onto the dock."

By the way, I'm an attorney, and any legal advice I may have given cannot be relied upon![/QUOTE]
Way too funny...
Katie

[sandysav]

We once missed a carnival cruise due to being snowed in (sat on the runway for 6 hours then got told we were not going anywhere). I thankfully bought deluxe travel insurance and carnival had screwed up by not telling us they had booked us a flight the next day to the first port. We got our money back from the deluxe insurance and carnival because of their screw up (not telling us they had booked us a flight the next day) couldn't do enough for us. We ended up going a month later and because we got our money back from the insurance and carnival upgrading us and making the price ALOT better than the orginal cruise we were happy customers. I say ALWAYS buy deluxe travel insurance (apparantley only thing that covers being snowed in)and everyone should always have a passport when travelling and shame on princess for not offering these people anything anyways cuz I am still mad at them about a previous issue. :p

[Host Caroline]

[COLOR=darkslateblue]Even if Princess [U]could[/U] have gotten them to the first port, the [B]OP should have had a passport[/B].. anyone who cruises w/out on these days is setting themselves up for a situation like this... it simply puts the airlines and the cruise line out of some options. Not strongly strongly suggesting that is IMHO the TAs main failure here or maybe they suggested it and the OP opted no to get one... [/COLOR]
[COLOR=darkslateblue][/COLOR]
[COLOR=darkslateblue][B]BTW No flaming here, folks!!!..[/B] this is bet. the OP, his/her travel agent and Princess and no matter what any of us says, that's a fact. The airlines have tight connections in lots of cities but in this case no matter what they could have/should have done to make it up to them and get them to the ship was moot since there were no passports..[/COLOR]
[COLOR=darkslateblue][/COLOR]
[COLOR=darkslateblue]and there is no point if "what iff'ing..." in that case[/COLOR]

[boatfloat]

Hi all. It's Katie who missed the boat. Just to clarify some things-we knew that we had insurance for the trip and called them right away. We didn't think about the connection we had until we knew our flight was delayed and of course didn't know about alot of variables that led to us not being able to get booked on other flights. Of course we will be much more careful and fly out a day ahead next time.

American Airlines delayed the flight at 7:50-the time we should have been boarding and told us that the flight crew scheduled for our flight had already logged in the max hours that they could fly. Yes, there was fog and and I think there probably were some delays due to weather-either at O'Hare or other airports. We assumed that this problem was due to weather but now I think it could have been some other reason. Like someone else said, they change flights all the time.. and the connection time was exactly 20 minutes.
Katie:cool::D

[muffydawg]

[quote name='A Sixth?']What's everyone's opinion of a 45 minute layover at JFK to make a connecting flight? The incoming Comair flight is from Montreal (and will have cleared US Customs in Montreal) and the Delta flight is heading to San Juan. (terminal change?)[/quote]


45 minutes at JFK is TOOOOO short. Our rule of thumb ( my preference) these days is 2 hours for a domestic layover and 4 hours for an international layover. We will pay more for non stop flights to avoid headaches like this; and fly in at least one day early. I would rather wait at the airport than run to the gate

[CruisenOne]

[quote name='A Sixth?']Hmm, I regularly go with 1 1/2 hours and do alright, and security will already be cleared in Montreal..... hmmm[/quote]

We will be flying to JFK and landing in the Domestic Terminal.
We can not have our luggage forwarded to El-Al Airlines, for transfer to Tel Aviv, through our Domestic Airline.

Thus, we must get our luggage at the Domestic Terminal. [U]Leave Security.[/U] Then, go to the El-Al Counter, check our luggage; then, proceed through
Security in the International Terminal. Thus, the four hour window.

We have encountered the same procedure when flying back from South America, Europe and Asia.

Che Sera - Sera --- What will be - Will be:)

[spingal]

Katie,

I am so sorry to hear what happened. I have not booked through Princess for years. I book my own flights and I always fly in the day before sailing.

The last time I used Princess, I paid the deviation fee and was able to work with my TA and Princess to select the flights I wanted. Personally, I would have told Princess that I would not accept a 20 minute layover. If they had told me they could not accomodate this then I would have cancelled the Princess air and booked my own flights. I have read way too many stories of people missing the ship because of flights. It is just something that I will not risk -- even if it means I have to pay more.

I hope you can re-book another cruise soon. :) I can not even imagine how disappointed you were to miss your trip.

[ccrain]

[quote name='donaldsc']Didnt you at least wonder when you saw a 20 minute connect time? Haven't you ever flown before?

DON[/QUOTE]

assigned legal connect time. 20 minutes for ICT is not that unreasonable. Its a very small airport. The American gates, all 2-3 of them, are right next to each other.

But on the other hand, I would never, ever, ever take a flight with less than a 30 minute connect time, even if I knew the aiport well. That's why I usually end up sitting for an hour in Denver all the time rather than rushing from one gate to the other.

[donna5]

Passports are a necessity for air travel. With all the delays the planes fill up. There was this one lady and her daughter that couldn't get back here from Milwaukee(I believe) The only seat avail. were from Milwaukee- into canada - and then a flight to either Denver or SLC to get her back here. Couldn't be done because of no passport. So even if you are only going to be flying over mainland U.S. It is a must for a passport. Actually our govt. isn't doing it's citizens any good by delaying the requirement for passports. Had they not delayed it, the OP would have a passport.

[Pam in CA]

Passengers have had plenty of warning (over a year in advance) to get a passport so that getting one was a personal choice. As it turns out, a bad one. People figure they don't need one and don't think there could be any variables when in reality, there are a lot of ways not having a passport can affect them negatively. As in this case, it caused them to miss the cruise. I wonder how the insurance companies will handle a reason for missing the cruise as not having a passport and thus not being able to catch up with the cruise.

[TexasMom2]

Actually, the cause of missing the cruise was a too-short connection booked by the cruise line.

If reasonable flights were booked for the customer, they wouldn't have had to catch up with the ship in the first place.

If I had to be flown to the first port and miss 1-2 days of my vacation for that reason, I would be hopping mad.

[Smartcookie]

I can't believe they booked a connection with only 20 minutes in between! Usually the minimum is 45 minutes, and still they like to keep it at an hour. Sometimes I feel like I have to twist their arms to book me 45 minutes apart (I wouldn't do this for a cruise though).

A 20 minute delay is so typical lately...I wouldn't have dreamed you would've made that connection, how often do flights leave on time? My husband flys about once a week, and he estimates only 50% of his flights are on time. The statistics back him up on that too, especially since he flys out of NYC, which is notorious for delays.

[Pam in CA]

[quote name='TexasMom2']Actually, the cause of missing the cruise was a too-short connection booked by the cruise line. [COLOR=red][I]It was a legal connection in a small airport with only 2 - 3 gates. There was a flight delay which probably wouldn't have changed the outcome if they'd had an hour between flights.[/I][/COLOR]

If reasonable flights were booked for the customer, they wouldn't have had to catch up with the ship in the first place. [COLOR=red][I]"Reasonable" could have been almost anything since the airlines have been, and will, constantly change flights and times, adjusting to delays elsewhere. There's no way to predict that; a flight delay can be 30 minutes or two hours, or even a cancelled flight, at this time of the year.[/I][/COLOR]

If I had to be flown to the first port and miss 1-2 days of my vacation for that reason, I would be hopping mad. [COLOR=red][I]If you'd missed a day and received a very nice onboard credit (as I did -- $500), you wouldn't have been as hopping mad.[/I][/COLOR][/quote]The point is that the OP had options. Yes, Princess should have booked flights with a longer window between them but at a small airport with few flights, that might not have been possible. They wanted to fly down the day of embarkation which limited the possibilities and their flexibility should anything go wrong. It did go wrong. They had no passports and thus couldn't fly to catch up. It wasn't any one thing, such as the time between flights, that caused them to miss their cruise but rather several poor decisions such as flying down the same day and not having a passport. Both of these decisions severely limited their flexibility and ability to adjust.

[Smartcookie]

[quote name='boatfloat']American Airlines delayed the flight at 7:50-the time we should have been boarding and told us that the flight crew scheduled for our flight had already logged in the max hours that they could fly. [/quote]

And THAT is why 20 minutes is too short...typically the first leg is delayed, then you can just forget about making your connection. It happens A LOT!

[Pam in CA]

[quote name='Smartcookie']And THAT is why 20 minutes is too short...typically the first leg is delayed, then you can just forget about making your connection. It happens A LOT![/quote]Flying to CA after my Golden cruise a few weeks ago, I changed planes in Dallas. Even after the flight time was changed (the schedule changed, not delayed) just hours before the flight), we were further delayed because one of the stewardesses was caught in traffic. She arrived about the time we were due to take off. As soon as she ran on the plane, they started boarding.

[TexasMom2]

[quote name='Pam in MA']The point is that the OP had options. Yes, Princess should have booked flights with a longer window between them but at a small airport with few flights, that might not have been possible. They wanted to fly down the day of embarkation which limited the possibilities and their flexibility should anything go wrong. It did go wrong. They had no passports and thus couldn't fly to catch up. It wasn't any one thing, such as the time between flights, that caused them to miss their cruise but rather several poor decisions such as flying down the same day and not having a passport. Both of these decisions severely limited their flexibility and ability to adjust.[/quote]

Chicago is not a small airport.

Flights between Chicago and Houston don't require stops at small airports. The cruise line had other options to sell other than this weird 20-minute connection in Wichita. American has a hub in Dallas with flights to Houston every 30 minutes and between AA, CO and UA, there are tons of nonstops to Houston.

No matter how you spin it, it's painfully obvious this couple were let down and I would definitely pursue a refund.

[Charles4515]

[quote name='Smartcookie']And THAT is why 20 minutes is too short...typically the first leg is delayed, then you can just forget about making your connection. It happens A LOT![/QUOTE]

A 20 minute connection is always too short. Even if they had made the connection their luggage likely would not. Every connection I have had that was under under an hour I have made luckily over the years, but on every one under an hour my luggage was delayed and arrived later. So I would never accept a connection like that. Also I would not book cruise line air even to save money unless I was going a day or more early. Going a day early is a good idea anyway. And no one should book cruise air expecting them to hold the ship.

As far as the passport situation, even though a passport is not required to enter Mexico, no airline will allow a US passenger to board a flight to a foreign destination without one. They can not guarantee that the foreign country will admit the air passenger so they might be flying them back to the US which requires the passport for entry.