Religious Services on Carnival.

[kelz66]

no problem. Go to early service or sat night service and as soon as you get off the ship the following sunday make the time to find another service.

problem solved.

There are always solutions. It's just how much do you want to look for them or do you require others work to meet your needs?

If I felt the need to attend service, I certainly would include it into my travel plans. There are places of worship all over the place in every port city in america.

 

Excellent point. Plus the world is Gods church, he created it didn't he?

 

And whos to say that "the seventh day" was originally a sunday to start with? The calendar we use was made way after the world was created.

 

Celebrate God anywhere and any time you want.

 

Your actions should speak louder than your words. ;)

[BillnBobbi]

"Forgive me Father for I have sinned"

 

This thread is TOTALLY retarded! I can say that and mean it....as I have a retarded sister...and always can come down to her level and rationalize....a cruise ship simply does not have the space or where-with-all to accomodate ANY type of religion or beliefs available for the duration of ones cruise...............example..........I have read what 5 pages of "opinions" and still have yet to hear about "quanza" (sp?) is it "kwanza" If the catholics get a spot the christians get a spot and then the rest of the Believers have to have there spot...if they dont....FREE CRUISE!!!!!!! YAHOOOOOOO!

 

Research for all you "die hards"......how many hotels/motels no longer have The Bible in the nightstand next to your bed? Have you been to the DMV lately......we now have 9 different language tests here in LA....so all can understand.....hence there are no longer "Bibles" in the drawers.....why....if I cant read it Im going to complain..AND THEN SUE..is it because I cant read it.......NO......its the principal of NOT being able to read it if I want to! LAWSUIT!!!!!!!! No organization like Carnival can keep EVERYONE happy.....all the time.....if they got religious on us.....jeez louise could you imagine the mayham and lawsuits.....

 

Again this thread is RETARDED........politics and religion no sense on a ship except behind closed doors or in your thoughts......you can thank your God anywhere anytime......I have thanked my God for every sunrise and sunset I have seen on a ship....but dont feel the need to run to a service to say "its ok"....simply because "It will always be OK".....

 

Christmas is the most celebrated holiday here in the United States....land of the free............home of the brave............why is it that people are becoming so "ENTITLED".....amazing......or like I said before RETARDED!!!!!! My sister has more sense.....

 

Note to self......Self....DO NOT POST IN ANY POLITICAL OR RELIGIOUS POST ON CRUISE CRITIC BECAUSE IT WILL MAKE YOU CRAZY AND YOUR POINT WILL NOT BE HEARD....it will just get picked apart and slammed!

 

Im done.....I hope this post gets this thread removed...as it really is retarded!

 

 

 

You sound VERY immature. Moreover, I doubt you have a sister who is "retarded". People who have to deal with a family member who suffers from either a mental or physical disability, do not use that word. Their loved one is either physically or mentally CHALLENGED or DISABLED.

 

I also fail to understand how people becoming "entitled" (whatever you are trying to mean in that context) has anything to do with Christmas "being the most celebrated holiday here in the United States" - which is a statement that is obviously challengeable. My guess is that either the Fourth of July or Thanksgiving, both of which are uniquely American holidays, are more universally celebrated. There are 20 million + nonbelievers; 6 million Jews, 8 million Muslims; and several millions of those of other religions in the U.S. who do not celebrate Christmas.

 

Someone else mentioned that they are getting a bit annoyed with the fact that there are those who are trying to take WORDS OUT OF THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE. Those two words "under God" which were inserted into the pledge during the mid-fifties at the height of the McCarthyite anti-Communist witch hunts, were done so with very heavy lobbying by The Catholic Church and other religious denominations. This was merely the first step in the assault on THE WALL OF SEPARATION, which is crumbling more and more each passing day with the insertion of christian facsism's hold on our government.

 

As for the old conundrum of religious objects in public venues, this is going to pop up every year around late November, until it is finally concluded that these objects have NO PLACE in a public venue paid for by tax payer dollars.

The US Supreme court has CONSISTENTLY sided with those who challenge the placement of these objects (such as creches) on public property BECAUSE IT VIOLATES THE CLEAR LAW WITH RESPECT TO RECOGNITION OF ONE SPECIFIC RELIGION OVER ANOTHER BY THE GOVERNMENT.

 

 

Once again, practice your own religion on your own time, and stop asking a Commercial Enterprise to accomodate you. A Carnival Cruise ship is NOT a house of worship.

 

BnB

[BillnBobbi]

Yes it did have a point, meaning we never know when we are going to feel called to express our beliefs so each opportunity is an open opportunity. You have your beliefs....I have mine...if you had read what I said in full you would have noted that, with that in mind please go back and reread my post because I am not going to re-explain myself for you.

 

{RE-READ YOUR POST? I CAN GET THROUGH TOLSTOY'S WAR AND PEACE FASTER!!!}

 

Furthermore, I did not in any way make any rude remarks concerning anyone elses religion or beliefs, so it would have been respectful for you to have done the same. I could care less what you do or when you do it.

 

{ NO ONE HAS MADE ANY RUDE REMARKS REGARDING ANYONE'S RELIGION. THE DEBATE HAS CENTERED ON THE APPROPRIATENESS OF PUBLIC RELIGIOUS SERVICES ON BOARD A CRUISE SHIP }

 

BTW just so you know I have a real brother that is an atheist, two adopted online daughters that are lesbians, several friends that are lesbians, cousins that are of mixed race & an adopted online brother who lives in India & is Jain in his beliefs.

 

{ I WOULD REALLY BE INTERESTED IN HOW YOU HAVE "ADOPTED ONLINE DAUGHTERS". IS THERE AN ONLINE ADOPTION AGENCY THAT YOU GO TO?

OH, AND ALSO AN ADOPTED ONLINE BROTHER - NOW I KNOW THAT ONE CAN ADOPT CHILDREN. I NEVER HEARD OF ANYONE ADOPTING A SIBLING. DID YOUR PARENTS ADOPT HIM AND THAT WAS WHAT MADE HIM YOUR BROTHER?}

 

 

I also have several friends that are witches.

 

{ I ASSUME YOU ARE REFERRING TO EITHER WIKKANS OR SOME OTHER KIND OF PAGAN NATURISTS, CORRECT? }

 

 

Our religious beliefs do not effect any of us in anyway...

 

{ WELL IF THAT IS THE CASE THEN YOUR RELIGIOUS BELIEFS MAKE NO IMPACT ON YOUR LIFE. }

 

 

 

not that being a lesbian is....but some would say its not biblically correct.....

 

{ PLEASE POINT OUT THE INJUNCTION IN LEVITICUS AGAINST "WOMEN LYING WITH WOMEN" BECAUSE THERE IS NONE. THE ONLY INJUNCTION, WHICH HAS CAUSED SO MUCH MISERY TO GAY MEN THROUGHOUT THE AGES, WHO HAVE BEEN "PRIVILEGED" TO LIVE IN CHRISTENDOM IS "YOU SHALL NOT LIE WITH A MAN AS ONE DOES WITH A WOMEN..."

WOULD YOU LIKE TO KNOW WHY THE INJUNCTION IS NOT THERE AGAINST WOMEN? - IT IS BECAUSE AT THE TIME OF THE WRITING OF THE HEBREW BIBLE, WOMEN WERE CONSIDERED CHATTEL,I.E, PROPERTY. THEY SIMPLY WEREN'T THAT IMPORTANT TO THE MALES MAKING ALL THE RULES.

NOT ONLY THAT BUT MOST GUYS LIKED WATCHING GIRL ON GIRL ACTION. }

 

 

....but without all this in mind we are still great friends, we are still brothers & sisters, mother & daughters as well as friends & I wouldn't have it any other way. We all love each other despite our differences & there are many many other ways that we are connected. We are connected as being humans and have that bond.

 

{ WELL GOODY TWO SHOES FOR YOU. }

 

 

A bond that says we have hearts, we have feelings, we have spirits & minds...

 

{ THE LAST TWO QUALITIES BEING DEBATABLE HERE. WHERE IS ONE'S "SPIRIT" LOCATED? }

 

 

.we also each have our own opinions....and it's ok, cause if we were all the same the world we be a pretty boring place!

 

{ BUT ONE OF THE IMPERATIVES OF MOST ORGANIZED RELIGIONS IS TO TRY AND MAKE ALL OF THE "FLOCK" THE SAME BY CONFORMING TO COUNTLESS AND ARBITRARY RULES }

 

So please before you go and say anything about me or judge me by my beliefs, know me, know my heart & don't judge me because truly it's not your place. Trust me if I judged all the people above by the way you are trying to judge me I wouldn't have ANY of them except my blood brother & 2 bi-racial cousins in my life! That would be sad because all of those people have bought positive things into my life!

 

Be blessed, be a blessing! :p

 

{ WELL IT'S BOTH A BLESSING AND A CURSE, HMMM? }

 

BnB

 

"When I was back there in seminary school,

There was a person who put forth the proposition

That you could petition the Lord, with prayer.

Petition the lord

With prayer

Petition the lord with prayer.

 

YOU CANNOT PETITION THE LORD WITH PRAYER!!" - The Doors -

[BillnBobbi]

I cruised once over Passover and a fellow Jewish pax held a seder in the Lido during dinner. Anyone who wanted to join the seder, Jewish or not, could join if they wanted to. We had a great time and got to celebrate Passover in a way we won't ever forget.

 

A religious leader (Rabbi, Pastor, Priest) doesn't have to be on board to lead a religious service. Pax can certainly do that for each other if necessary.

 

 

Was the ship aware that it was the Passover week? If so were matzoh made available on board? If not, did people bring along their own? Certainly in Judaism, one does not need a Rabbi to officiate. Rabbi merely means "teacher".

We've been to many chavurim in our younger days.

 

However, I thought that in the Catholic religion, the priest or other clerical hierarchy function as intercessionaries between the laity and God. Thus Catholics NEED a mass with a priest blessing the wafer before they can receive the "body of Christ", and a priest blessing the wine before they can receive "the blood". Perhaps this is why Catholics are always concerned about missing mass during their time at sea.

 

I believe Protestants did away with the intercessionary - or is that only non-Anglican protestants?

 

BnB

[BillnBobbi]

Funny, I never heard any priest in the church I used to go to, express themselves quite in the same way you have :D :eek:

 

I noticed that too. Somehow the words "be blessed, be a blessing" don't quite jive with "friggin'", "Crap", and "piss".

 

In what part of the bible are those words found?

 

BnB

[cruiselubbers]

I noticed that too. Somehow the words "be blessed, be a blessing" don't quite jive with "friggin'", "Crap", and "piss".

 

In what part of the bible are those words found?

 

BnB

 

 

I've never claimed to be perfect. There was only one man that walked the earth that was 100% perfect in my book.....Jesus.......I will never be perfect & you people shouldn't expect me to be perfect. I know I need Him because I am not perfect and that is why I lean on Him & speak to Him in prayer on all things. If I do anything wrong including saying things wrong then that is between me & Him and has nothing to do with you.

 

So quit being my judge & jury.

 

I guess you must be perfect since you are so quick to cast the stone?

 

Be blessed, be a blessing! :p

 

BTW I always write my signature like that because regardless of how I may feel at that moment I still think it is important to add it, if you don't like it, don't read it. If you don't like what I have to say in my posts, don't read them.

[MrPete]

 

BTW I always write my signature like that because regardless of how I may feel at that moment I still think it is important to add it, if you don't like it, don't read it. If you don't like what I have to say in my posts, don't read them.

 

Yes, but you're putting it there for us to read, sort of like IN YOUR FACE. Maybe you should just print the saying out and tape it to YOUR monitor so YOU can see it.

 

You may find this plays a part in how people perceive your persona.

 

Your choice.

[cruiselubbers]

{ WELL IT'S BOTH A BLESSING AND A CURSE, HMMM? }

 

BnB

 

"When I was back there in seminary school,

There was a person who put forth the proposition

That you could petition the Lord, with prayer.

Petition the lord

With prayer

Petition the lord with prayer.

 

YOU CANNOT PETITION THE LORD WITH PRAYER!!" - The Doors -

 

 

Not going to even respond to any of your comments since there's no possible way for me to satisfy you. I do want to however make one correction to your post since you have corrected or changed every word that I have said. Surprisingly you might find that I would like to correct the one about Wikkan......you spelled that one wrong....it's WICCAN! I know I am not a perfect speller, don't claim to be but when it come's to talking about one's beliefs and your talking about them have the decency to spell them right!

 

Well time to close this post........Speaking to the Lord in prayer while trying to still continue getting smacked in the face by certain people for no reason other then they pick out what they want to hear.

 

Be blessed, be a blessing!

[cruiselubbers]

Yes, but you're putting it there for us to read, sort of like IN YOUR FACE. Maybe you should just print the saying out and tape it to YOUR monitor so YOU can see it.

 

You may find this plays a part in how people perceive your persona.

 

Your choice.

 

 

Nope that's not how it's meant. I totally believe you should do your best to help other people out and in turn karma so to say will come back and bless you. That's what it's meant to say. (I"M USING THE WORD KARMA HERE FOR LACK OF A BETTER WORD!........BETTER SAY THIS NOW....CAUSE I HAVE A FEELING THAT ONE WORD WILL CAUSE ANOTHER COMMENT! and not shouting to shout.....saying it in CAPS so it will be SEEN & maybe my full sentences be used for a change instead of half of it!)

 

I will now start including it in my signature....just so everyone understands that one.

 

I still don't believe that even my signature has to get continually torn apart. I've never said anything about anyone else's....it's unreal to me how other people can pick people apart for something like that.

 

BTW....I don't need to see it to believe it. Some beliefs in life you don't need to see to believe...you just do them.

 

Be blessed, be a blessing!

[cruiselubbers]

I was going to stay away from this thread, because I have nothing to offer constructively, but I wanted to say one thing to you. As a gay man, I was not offended by what you said, at all. I understood it. I don't have a religion myself, but you sound like a very cool person who doesn't judge. Bravo!

 

And to the op, I just feel bad that you started a post with the best intentions, and get so much crap. I can't believe what this thread has turned into. Sad, really.

 

 

Thank you so much. Somehow I knew there was someone that would understand what I was talking about. Someone that could relate and has been thru exactly what I was talking about. People can be unkind and it's sad, here I mean people shouldn't be allowed to say who someone can or cannot be friends with. If you don't like my friends or my family....then stay away from us all. I don't pick other peoples friends & they shouldn't pick mine.

 

Ditto to the OP.

 

Be blessed, be a blessing!

[kelz66]

{ WELL IT'S BOTH A BLESSING AND A CURSE, HMMM? }

 

BnB

 

"When I was back there in seminary school,

There was a person who put forth the proposition

That you could petition the Lord, with prayer.

Petition the lord

With prayer

Petition the lord with prayer.

 

YOU CANNOT PETITION THE LORD WITH PRAYER!!" - The Doors -

 

Can you give me sanctuary

I must find a place to hide

A place for me to hide

 

Can you find me soft asylum

I can't make it anymore

The Man is at the door

 

Peppermint, miniskirts, chocolate candy

Champion sax and a girl named Sandy

There's only four ways to get unraveled

One is to sleep and the other is travel, da da

One is a bandit up in the hills

One is to love your neighbor 'till

His wife gets home

 

Catacombs

Nursery bones

Winter women

Growing stones

Carrying babies

To the river

 

Streets and shoes

Avenues

Leather riders

Selling news

The monk bought lunch

 

Ha ha, he bought a little

Yes, he did

Woo!

This is the best part of the trip

This is the trip, the best part

I really like

What'd he say?

Yeah!

Yeah, right!

Pretty good, huh

Huh!

Yeah, I'm proud to be a part of this number

 

Successful hills are here to stay

Everything must be this way

Gentle streets where people play

Welcome to the Soft Parade

 

All our lives we sweat and save

Building for a shallow grave

Must be something else we say

Somehow to defend this place

Everything must be this way

Everything must be this way, yeah

 

The Soft Parade has now begun

Listen to the engines hum

People out to have some fun

A cobra on my left

Leopard on my right, yeah

 

The deer woman in a silk dress

Girls with beads around their necks

Kiss the hunter of the green vest

Who has wrestled before

With lions in the night

 

Out of sight!

The lights are getting brighter

The radio is moaning

Calling to the dogs

There are still a few animals

Left out in the yard

But it's getting harder

To describe sailors

To the underfed

 

Tropic corridor

Tropic treasure

What got us this far

To this mild equator?

 

We need someone or something new

Something else to get us through, yeah, c'mon

 

Callin' on the dogs

Callin' on the dogs

Oh, it's gettin' harder

Callin' on the dogs

Callin' in the dogs

Callin' all the dogs

Callin' on the gods

 

You gotta meet me

Too late, baby

Slay a few animals

At the crossroads

Too late

All in the yard

But it's gettin' harder

By the crossroads

You gotta meet me

Oh, we're goin', we're goin great

At the edge of town

Tropic corridor

Tropic treasure

Havin' a good time

Got to come along

What got us this far

To this mild equator?

Outskirts of the city

You and I

We need someone new

Somethin' new

Somethin' else to get us through

Better bring your gun

Better bring your gun

Tropic corridor

Tropic treasure

We're gonna ride and have some fun

 

When all else fails

We can whip the horse's eyes

And make them sleep

And cry

[cruiselubbers]

kelz66.....

 

I'm sure you didn't notice it & there is no comment either in a positive or negative way from me here....but I just wanted to say thanks! Never heard that song before, but it's always interesting to find another song that has your own name in it.....mine's Sandy.

[kelz66]

kelz66.....

 

I'm sure you didn't notice it & there is no comment either in a positive or negative way from me here....but I just wanted to say thanks! Never heard that song before, but it's always interesting to find another song that has your own name in it.....mine's Sandy.

 

http://www.huddersfield1.co.uk/poetry/morrisonpoetry.htm

 

http://www.huddersfield1.co.uk/poetry/americanprayer.htm

 

:cool:

[cruiselubbers]

http://www.huddersfield1.co.uk/poetry/morrisonpoetry.htm

 

http://www.huddersfield1.co.uk/poetry/americanprayer.htm

 

:cool:

 

 

Kewl....thanks :D

[xpcdoojk]

kelz66.....

 

I'm sure you didn't notice it & there is no comment either in a positive or negative way from me here....but I just wanted to say thanks! Never heard that song before, but it's always interesting to find another song that has your own name in it.....mine's Sandy.

 

Funny, your avatar looks like you would be old enough to remember the Doors.

 

Jim Morrison was a visionary about quasi religious goofiness. Probably why he died, because if he had lived to be old people would have thought he was a looney tune. JMHO

 

Gosh, I reread the dumb lyrics that Kelz so helpfully provided and I so wish I had been around during beatnik poetry reading in coffee houses.... actually, I am quite thankful I wasn't! What a waste of perfectly good coffee.

 

One of you owes me for about 30 minutes of my life back for making me read this thread and you know who you are!:D

 

jc

[Mikel1733]

excuse me, we are talking about a human being who would or would not spend just as much onboard as any other person who paid for the room, in fact if i got onboard for free, say i won a cruise, i would tend to spend more on the ship than i would if i had paid for the room, thus the ship wouldnt actually be out anything. Why would you just assume that a member of the clergy would spend any less than say if I or anyone else was in the room. Sure he may not gamble, etc, but that is not to say he /she wont spend any less money onboard than another. What your saying makes no sense, This person is no different than others who may have paid for there half of the room.

 

 

All assumptions aside.......can you understand that if Carnival gave a free room to ALL the different types of religious faiths that it would be costly. Can you also understand that Carnival as a publicly traded company is not going to lose money for shareholders.....they will instead pass the cost of all rooms and lost revenue on to the paying passengers? This isn't rocket science, just basic business 101.

[CruiseToTahiti]

As a new subscriber to this board I have found MANY threads here both interesting and contraversal. This one is...hmmmmm..how should put it......a waste of bandwidth maybe?....And since everyone else is putting in their 2 cents worth I might as well also....a little more wasted bandwidth prolly won't hurt....I don't want to see or hear about your religion or beliefs and if you insist on putting it in my face by your preaching, signature line or just general attitude then be fully prepared to have my beliefs of how ignorant you are crammed right back at you!:D

[kelz66]

Funny, your avatar looks like you would be old enough to remember the Doors.

 

Jim Morrison was a visionary about quasi religious goofiness. Probably why he died, because if he had lived to be old people would have thought he was a looney tune. JMHO

 

Gosh, I reread the dumb lyrics that Kelz so helpfully provided and I so wish I had been around during beatnik poetry reading in coffee houses.... actually, I am quite thankful I wasn't! What a waste of perfectly good coffee.

 

One of you owes me for about 30 minutes of my life back for making me read this thread and you know who you are!:D

 

jc

 

Sorry...you can't have it back. :p

 

Now I have to find more things that I like that will annoy you..or even better things I don't like...LMAO

(boy are you introuble..I'm switching jobs and am bored at work just waiting to leave...LOL):rolleyes:

[CruzCra-Z]

You sound VERY immature. Moreover, I doubt you have a sister who is "retarded". People who have to deal with a family member who suffers from either a mental or physical disability, do not use that word. Their loved one is either physically or mentally CHALLENGED or DISABLED.

 

I also fail to understand how people becoming "entitled" (whatever you are trying to mean in that context) has anything to do with Christmas "being the most celebrated holiday here in the United States" - which is a statement that is obviously challengeable. My guess is that either the Fourth of July or Thanksgiving, both of which are uniquely American holidays, are more universally celebrated. There are 20 million + nonbelievers; 6 million Jews, 8 million Muslims; and several millions of those of other religions in the U.S. who do not celebrate Christmas.

 

Someone else mentioned that they are getting a bit annoyed with the fact that there are those who are trying to take WORDS OUT OF THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE. Those two words "under God" which were inserted into the pledge during the mid-fifties at the height of the McCarthyite anti-Communist witch hunts, were done so with very heavy lobbying by The Catholic Church and other religious denominations. This was merely the first step in the assault on THE WALL OF SEPARATION, which is crumbling more and more each passing day with the insertion of christian facsism's hold on our government.

 

As for the old conundrum of religious objects in public venues, this is going to pop up every year around late November, until it is finally concluded that these objects have NO PLACE in a public venue paid for by tax payer dollars.

The US Supreme court has CONSISTENTLY sided with those who challenge the placement of these objects (such as creches) on public property BECAUSE IT VIOLATES THE CLEAR LAW WITH RESPECT TO RECOGNITION OF ONE SPECIFIC RELIGION OVER ANOTHER BY THE GOVERNMENT.

 

 

Once again, practice your own religion on your own time, and stop asking a Commercial Enterprise to accomodate you. A Carnival Cruise ship is NOT a house of worship.

 

BnB

 

Well said!

[cruiselubbers]

Funny, your avatar looks like you would be old enough to remember the Doors.

jc

 

 

Old enough (34) to remember them yes, ever listened to them, no not really. I'm not a music bug....but my hubby sure is! ;)

[kelz66]

After Forever

 

Have you ever thought about your soul - can it be saved

Or perhaps you think that when you're dead

You just stay in your grave

Is God just a thought within your head

Or is he a part of you

Is Christ just a name that you read in a book

When you were at school?

When you think about death do you lose your breathe

Or do you keep your cool?

Would you like to see the Pope, on the end of a rope

- Do you think he's a fool?

Well I have seen the truth. Yes I have seen the light

And I've changed my ways

And I'll be prepared when you're lonely

And scared at the end of Our days

 

Could it be you're afraid of what you friends might say

If they knew you believe in God above

They should realize before they criticise

That God is the only way to love

 

Is your mind so small that you have to fall

In with the pack wherever they run

Will you still sneer when death is near

And say they may as well worship the sun

 

I think it was true it was people like you

That crucified Christ

I think it sad the opinion you had was the only one voiced

Will you be so sure when your day is near

Say you don't believe?

You had the chance but you turned it down

Now you can't retrieve.

 

Perhaps you'll think before you say

That God is dead and sone

Open your eyes, just, realize that he is the One

The only One Who can save you now from all this sun & hate

Or will you still jeer at all you hear?

Yes! - I think it's too late.

[cruiselubbers]

......................

It is amazing how people are getting so upset about something that doesn't have any impact on them. When you and I walk away from the discussion we will be at peace. Some of the other poster will leave angry..............

 

 

Awesome return post from you thanks. I did want to go in here & point out this one part of your thread because it is very important to me. You are very right you & I both will walk away from this discussion at peace. No doubt about it. It can't begin to say online the things that I have felt led to do in my life for His honor, but I can tell you in the process I have been shot at, laughed at, screamed at, cursed at, plus more not including had people threaten to kidnap my children so to me this all is very minor. It's something I have endured over the years and will continue to endure. But when it's all said and done I know I have peace within because everynight that I go to bed I can lay down and put my head on my pillow knowing I have done what He's asked me to do. Whether the rest of the world agrees with it or not has nothing to do with me, I know who I serve.

 

I still say the best solution would be to have an open prayer time announced for a non-denominational prayer time....have someone just say it's began & same person say prayer time is over & just have a united group of people. As I said earlier even maybe a moment of silence before setting sail so people can pray for a safe journey. I think everyone prays for that no matter who or what they believe in. My bro the atheist always does just so he has peace of mind. It works for him.

 

Peace :cool:

[kelz66]

but I can tell you in the process I have been shot at, laughed at, screamed at, cursed at, plus more not including had people threaten to kidnap my children so to me this all is very minor.

 

Where the heck do you live?? :eek:

[Bruin Steve]

I was going to stay away from this long twisted thread entirely...BUT...since there seems to be no end to it, allow me to add a few toughts...

 

First, I have no great problem with anyone who is an uncompensated volunteer leading a religious service onboard, provided it is separate, non-intrusive/obtrusive...and not connected to any sort of proseletyzing...

 

OTOH, I also agree that the cruise lines (Carnival or any other) should not have to deal with acquiring the services of clergy for any specific group...

 

I do find public displays of decorations or religious items tailored to one specific group to be at least mildly offensive (and yes, most Christmas-related decor is NOT "non-denominational")...

 

"Non-denominational", though sounding idyllic, is actually a virtual impossibility..."Non-denominational Christian" is still Christian...General stuff about God still cannot be general...Different religions have completely different concepts regarding what that entity is or represents...or even if it's a single entity...or even if it exists at all...There is NO generalized way to cover everyone's beliefs...

 

To the person who brought up the old "this country was founded by Christians" thing, that statement is one I have heard so many times and it still astounds me as to how ignorant the people who use that are...This country was founded by people with a wide variety of religious views--including Deists, Jews, Atheists and others...in fact, most of the top minds who framed the Constitution and Bill of Rights were expressly NOT Christians...If one actually would read these documents...or the histories surrounding them, they'd realize that one of the great tenets of our country is the freedom FROM religion...It was a rebellion from the "State Religions" of the European powers of the time...the idea that the government should not sanction and subsidize any religion as the "official" religion of the state...People came to this country in order to freely practice their own religions or philosophies or even NO religion if that is what they desired...

 

And please allow me to bring up one point that hasn't even been touched on thus far in six pages of posts...If you really want a religious experience, there are plenty to be had without bringing it onto the ship...When you do a "land" vacation, do you lobby Hilton or Hyatt to hold religious services in your hotel?

 

I have cruised many, many times in my life...I am a Jew...During port stops while cruising, I have visited Synagogues in St. Thomas, Copenhagen, Venice, Rhodes, Dubrovnik, Corfu and Istanbul...Last summer, during our stop in Rhodes, I was part of a Minyan (a required quorum for public prayer) in the Synagogue in Rhodes--a very moving experience...

 

(By the way, I have also visited churches in many ports as well--so, I know they exist!)

 

If I can find Synagoues in all of these remote places, I really don't think any of you devout Christians would have much trouble finding your religious services in any of the ports you visit...I would suggest it would be a far more moving and religious experience to pray amongst the locals in these distant and diverse places than it would be to hold a "service" in some cruise ship lounge somewhere between Bingo and Karaoke...

[cruiselubbers]

Where the heck do you live?? :eek:

 

 

Oh hon, I live in a really nice place & I hope I didn't scare anyone there!

 

I live in NC, but due to something I felt called to do one time, it caused a pretty good ruckus! It wasn't something I wanted to do, but.....I was listening to what I knew I was being told to do.....so to stay in the word.....I did it of course.

 

Part of me says I should keep my mouth shut, but then other parts of me say I should just tell you what it was. The worse thing that can happen is I can have more of what has already been done to me & like I said I can accept that.

 

So felt called to start a petition to get peer inspired prayer put back in schools & for the moment of silence to actually exsist everyday. Spent alot of time in Raleigh sorting this one out & talked to alot of officials. Still is an ongoing thing but I work a little more under camo these days as I was shot at & did receive several kidnapping threats concerning my kids. Couldn't even honor them for their good grades in school for years because I wasn't comfortable listing their names in the paper. Had to change their schools several times & move 3 times just to keep the address off the air. But to the good it's went it's in over 26 states and has millions of signatures and has been widely talked about since I felt led to go & do that.

 

I do have several different websites concerning the different things I have been involved in plus the online ministry....there's so much more I could say on that.....but.

 

:cool: