As You Wish Dining - Opinions, Comments and Discussions

[pms4104]

I think that this shows the ever growing acceptance of the AYWD option by HAL passengers and that in spite of the many CC’s objections posted on this board the majority of HAL cruisers may just prefer open dining options. For those who demand to have traditional seating (which they have a right to) this should be good news, as there will be more traditional seating available for them.

I respectfully disagree about the ever-growiing acceptance. I believe that HAL is treating open seating as the default and honoring requests for fixed if a passenger or T/A pushes it.

 

My comment is based on my personal experience: booked with my T/A over the phone a full year out for upcoming December; at that point, HAL's website showed all dining options open; visited my T/A and noticed our confirmation from HAL showed open seating confirmed; when I questioned my T/A, she said HAL told her that was all that was available; I told her what was on the website and all it took was one call from her to HAL to get us confirmed fixed/traditional.

 

So, I believe there's more at play here than more passenger acceptance of open seating. Indeed, many may desire that ... but many others still do not.

[hammybee]

If this is true, why isn't open seating closed or wailisted when you book with the only choice left being fixed seating?

 

In theory, they can turn a table three times during an evening in Open Seating versus twice in Fixed Seating. As a result, they are able to accomodate more passengers in Open versus Fixed Seating.

 

I too am surprised when Open Seating fills. I also think Open Seating is more popular on some intineraries than others. It's good alternative for port intensive cruises or those with late port calls.

[xpcdoojk]

In theory, they can turn a table three times during an evening in Open Seating versus twice in Fixed Seating. As a result, they are able to accomodate more passengers in Open versus Fixed Seating.

 

I too am surprised when Open Seating fills. I also think Open Seating is more popular on some intineraries than others. It's good alternative for port intensive cruises or those with late port calls.

 

Hammybee, your theory, makes no sense to me about turning the tables 3 times and they can accomodate more people. Unlike a restaurant on land. They have to accomodate everyone on the cruise regardless of how they do the seating. IE 2000 people are going to eat dinner in the dining room every evening. Not 2500 versus 1500.

 

AYWD is clearly going to be jammed down everyones throat regardless if we like it or not. :D

 

jc

[mineola]

My husband & I will be on a Cruise Tour starting August 23 and As You Wish is available on the Vendeem. I transferred our assigned seating to As You Wish. We want to be able to eat whenever and not have to be seated at a specific time. I understand the hours are 5:30 to 9:00.

[Opinions]

Hammybee, your theory, makes no sense to me about turning the tables 3 times and they can accomodate more people.

 

It makes sense to me...With a all traditional dining ship they are limited to the number of seats available in the first and second seatings...With open seating and the ability to use some tables 3 times they are able to sell more of those 3 and 4 berth cabins...They just assign the extra people to open seating and eventually they will find a seat for them.

[hammybee]

Hammybee, your theory, makes no sense to me about turning the tables 3 times and they can accomodate more people. Unlike a restaurant on land. They have to accomodate everyone on the cruise regardless of how they do the seating. IE 2000 people are going to eat dinner in the dining room every evening. Not 2500 versus 1500.

 

AYWD is clearly going to be jammed down everyones throat regardless if we like it or not. :D

 

jc

 

Let's assume that each dining room can reasonably accommodate 500 passengers at a time. ( I have no idea what actual capacity is, so play along with me, OK ;) ) If both were fixed seatings, and everyone showed, that means they would have served 2000 passengers, during an evening.

 

Given one of those dining rooms is now designated as Open Seating, they can turn some of those tables over more than two times in an evening and by doing so, accommodate more passengers in the same space they did when the room was used for fixed seating. For this reason, it becomes less likely that Open Seating could sell out.

 

To sell out Open Seating means substantially more than half the passengers preferred Open Seating, far more than could reasonably be accommodated, even with the ability to turn some of those tables three times in an evening.

 

This is the third time in the past year that this sort of thing has been reported on this board.

[JerseyJaguar]

To sell out Open Seating means substantially more than half the passengers preferred Open Seating, far more than could reasonably be accommodated, even with the ability to turn some of those tables three times in an evening.

 

This is the third time in the past year that this sort of thing has been reported on this board.

This is what confuses me, I was looking at a December cruise and the only thing available is Open Seating, the fixed dining is closed (although they still list both upper and lower even though they list Open separately). So if so many want Open, why isn't fixed available to the rest of us on cruises six months away?

 

I had late fixed seating on my recent cruise and it looked like all the tables were filled. We also had a few small groups on the ship (80 Aussies, some work-related group, etc) but I don't know if they commandeered any section of either dining area, I think the work group had a dinner together in the Queens Lounge or one of those meeting rooms. Maybe that's the solution for groups that want to all eat at the same time.

[hammybee]

Jersey,

It's no secret that HAL is holding back on dining allocations to give themselves the best shot at satisfying the majority. Those in deluxe suites usually get priority. Bookings from top producing travel agencies often get priority. And then there are groups. Volume purchasing almost always trumps individual purchases, in most businesses. Cruising is no different. SOmetimes passengers do not get what they want, not too different than not getting the desired fixed seating time before the evolution of Open Seating.

 

The number of passengers who want fixed versus open seating varies from sailing to sailing and more importantly, passenger to passenger, based upon perception. It's impossible to make a generalization about it.

 

I am surprised as anyone that there have been three reported instances that Open Seating filled before fixed seating because more than half the ship can be accommodated in Open Seating. That they all were Alaska sails is not a coincidence. These sails tend to attract people new to cruising or new to HAL.

 

The concept of having to dine at a fixed time with assigned tablemates is unique to cruising. Imagine going out for dinner and being told that you will share a table with 6 strangers.

 

Fixed seating/ mass feeding is a concept that originated within the mass market cruiselines for the benefit of the cruise line. With the exception of Crystal, the high end cruise lines are all Open Seating.

[RevNeal]

I am not surprised that there have been a few cruises on the Alaska Runs which have had Open Seating maxed out. Of all of HAL's itineraries, these tend to be the entry point for cruisers who are new to HAL, as well as families and others, all of whom would be prone to prefer Open dining.

 

I am also hopeful that, if this really indicates that more people are wanting Open Dining, that I and other Traditionalists will have a better chance of getting our preference of Traditional Dining.

 

This being said, I don't think I should get my hopes up too much. Yes, we've heard of 3 instances where Open Dining is filled, and I'm sure there are more. However, there are 156 Alaska sailings this year ... even 10 or 15 of them would not be a large percentage (and I'm skeptical about the figures being that large). Yes, there are 3 instances where people couldn't get confirmed in Open Seating ... but there are HUNDREDS of instances where people can't get confirmed in Fixed. That's not a meaningful comparison.

[O2B@C]

... Fixed seating/ mass feeding is a concept that originated within the mass market cruiselines for the benefit of the cruise line. ...

 

Not exactly. It's older than that. Dinner seating on the transatlantic crossings I did with my parents in the 1950s and early 1960s - back when ocean liners were for transportation, not recreation - was consistent with today's fixed seating. You had an assigned table and time, and you might well be assigned to a large table with other passengers for the duration of the cruise. Thus, it seems to me that fixed seating on cruise ships originated as a holdover from the old days of ocean liners, rather than as an innovation by the "mass market cruiselines" for their convenience. What's new in this mix is NOT the traditional fixed seating, but the open seating. Not that this matters, but I just wanted to set the record straight.

[westville]

For AYWD , if you are a party of 4 -will you always get a table of 4 or can they place you with other cruise passengers on a larger table.

Do you hae the optionof waiting if you dont want to share a large table. Does anyone out there know what is the longest possible wait for a small group of 4.

thanks for your help in advance

[hammybee]

For AYWD , if you are a party of 4 -will you always get a table of 4 or can they place you with other cruise passengers on a larger table.

Do you hae the optionof waiting if you dont want to share a large table. Does anyone out there know what is the longest possible wait for a small group of 4.

thanks for your help in advance

 

You can ask for a table of 4 or agree to share a table with others. If it's not available you can wait for it.

 

There is no way to predict the longest possible wait for a table as that depends upon how many others want what you want, when your want it. What happened on one sailing may not be what hapens on the next sailing. Passengers are the wild cards.

 

Thus far there have been very few reports of lengthly waits. Hopes this is ture on your cruise, too.

[hammybee]

Not exactly. It's older than that. Dinner seating on the transatlantic crossings I did with my parents in the 1950s and early 1960s - back when ocean liners were for transportation, not recreation - was consistent with today's fixed seating. You had an assigned table and time, and you might well be assigned to a large table with other passengers for the duration of the cruise. Thus, it seems to me that fixed seating on cruise ships originated as a holdover from the old days of ocean liners, rather than as an innovation by the "mass market cruiselines" for their convenience. What's new in this mix is NOT the traditional fixed seating, but the open seating. Not that this matters, but I just wanted to set the record straight.

 

I think we are on the same page. May I try this again?

 

There used to be different classes of service, first, second ( tourist) and third class ( former steerage). Passengers knew their place in the social pecking order and generally limited their socializing and dining to their own class. Each class was accommodated in their own dining room at a single seating. And the order of the day was sharing tables.

 

Somewhere in the late 50-early 60's, the distinction between classes began to blur into a single tourist class, the stubb of mass marketing. Passengers were generally accommodated in one of two seatings. Passengers all dined off the same menu and that's what I meant by mass feeding.

 

And somewhere along the way, open seating became the preferred method of dining on most higher end, small ships, leaving the masses on big box ships to assigned fixed seating and twittering over the merits of early versus late seating, when in reality, most passengers preferred something in the middle.

[O2B@C]

I think we are on the same page. May I try this again? ....

 

Yes, I think so, and yes, of course.:)

 

... There used to be different classes of service, first, second ( tourist) and third class ( former steerage). Passengers knew their place in the social pecking order and generally limited their socializing and dining to their own class. Each class was accommodated in their own dining room at a single seating. And the order of the day was sharing tables. ....

 

More or less as I remember it, yes, although on Cunard, at least, the classes were first, cabin, and tourist, so tourist was third class, not second. Not only did passengers "know their place," but IIRC, the doors between portions of the ship allocated to different classes were marked, and possibly locked, so you really had to try hard to get into an area of the ship that was not designated for your class - and if found there, would likely have been politely escorted back where you belonged!:rolleyes:

 

As for the process of evolution between then and now - that was the period of time when I wasn't traveling on ships much, but I certainly take your word for it - sounds right.

 

I think that on today's small luxury cruise ships, the high fares and small passenger complement of the ships allow them to designate enough dining space to accommodate all passengers on an open seating basis without undue delays. This task is probably eased by the fact that due to the cost, the passengers all come from more or less the same social class, and therefore presumably (1) have enough in common to find friends they will be happy to share tables with, and (2) have enough manners to behave themselves in a civilized fashion when it comes to matters such as getting along with strangers at the dinner table.

 

I can't speak from experience on whether that actually works - and don't expect ever to be able to afford to:D ! My point is, though, that these factors aren't true on the mass market (including "premium" mass market) ships, which makes open seating at least a bit more problematic for them. But what the heck - maybe it works - I have to confess that the reports re AYWD on HAL seem to have become more positive as the line has acquired more experience with it, so maybe it will work after all.

[joelamp]

My wife and I are sailing on 7/13 ms Westerdam to Alaska/Glacier Bay from Seattle. I have two sisters who made their individual reservations for the same cruise through their own travel agencies. All of us requested traditional/fixed dining together. Though my wife and I made our reservations more than 2 weeks before my sisters (in July, 2007), we have been waitlisted for traditional while my two sisters have been confirmed for dining together at main seating table. My travel agency has proved utterly useless in getting any resolution from Holland America, as naturally, I first turned to her and had her put in our request to dine with my sisters. She tells me the cruise line is forcing AYW on us, which I find completely ridiculous given that my sisters have been able to secure a table at main seating. Now, after additional fruitless attempts to resolve our dining arrangements (both through the T/A and through HA directly), I am resigned to having to try sorting things out once aboard ship. The last thing I want to do is spend valuable cruise time making daily dinner reservations or hoping to walk up any old time and find an open table. I think the whole AYW program is flawed from the get go, not to mention redundant (since passengers who desire an open seating AYW experience have always had the option of flopping upstairs for a meal on Lido). Hoping it turns out OK, but not expecting it to. Maybe I will be pleasantly surprised. I should think the fact that we have been waitlisted for traditional should serve as proof that more passengers want that style of dining. If we had been waitlisted for AYW while being forced to accept a traditional dining assignment, it would have proved the opposite point.

[hammybee]

 

But what the heck - maybe it works - I have to confess that the reports re AYWD on HAL seem to have become more positive as the line has acquired more experience with it, so maybe it will work after all.

 

My theory is that we are hearing more and more from some of those passengers who embrace the concept of open seating.

 

The hallmark of mass market cruising is inconsistentcy and a huge variation in passenger expections. :)

[NHBob]

Boy, this thread has taken on a life of its own. Hadn't looked at it lately, but did want to add a note about my observations on Zuiderdam's introduction of AYWD on the March TA.

 

As regular readers of this post and the roll call thread may recall, I had a major battle with HAL to get confirmation of traditional dining. However, once on board I didn't notice any problems. It certainly had no effect on my upper level service, and I never saw any lines at the lower level open seating entrance.

 

People I met who had selected open seating were very pleased with it and the flexibility it offered. However, the one or two people I met who had been forced to accept open dining because traditional was full were not happy campers.

 

No doubt there were also some passengers who had wanted but been unable to get traditional , and then discovered that they liked the open seating. So, I continue to feel that the problem is not with the concept, but HAL's unwillingness or inability to confirm dining choice at the time or booking or shortly thereafter.

[cf_chuck]

I have to confess, I haven't read all these posts.

 

I prefer fixed seating, early dinner. However, I had to go with AYWD on the last cruise since my preferred seating time wasn't available and I thought it would be better to take my chances rather than getting stuck with seating later than I wanted.

 

I think it's important to point out that AYWD reservations can be made beginning at 8AM for the evening dinner. On the cruise I was on, there were 2 specific time slots that roughly corresponded to the fixed dining times. By calling early, it is possible to get the same table and dining times. In the course of my 10 day cruise, most of the people around me were the same ones. I didn't have any problem getting a reservation within a 10 minute period, and reservations can be made from the room or any public ship phone. If there is a problem with the specific table, you can ask for a teble assignment in the same server's section. This is also an option if you use the walk up without a reservation option (which I learned about from my server the one night I messed up on the reservations).

 

From a service perspective, I didn't notice any significant difference in the quality from the fixed dining. This, I suspect, was because I was in the same place from day to day. I did notice that things seemed busier as the staff tried to turn tables, but, at least for my servers, the seated diners took priority. From reading what others have written with fixed seating, it seems that the upper dining sections also experience a bit more bustle due to the AYWD option.

 

From a dress code perspective, I didn't notice any significant drop off. Those around me conformed well to the code and I didn't go looking for exceptions.

 

Even though they turn the tables for AYWD, I never felt rushed and took the time to enjoy what was ordered.

 

Other than being upset about not having a pre-assigned time, I don't fully appreciate the objections offered here to AYWD. From my experience, it is possible, with a little effort, to create the same effect as the fixed dining experience. If someone wants the flexibility, AYWD is there but there is a tradeoff in that you might get assigned a different table or section if getting fed soon is a priority. This could be an advantage if you are dissatisfied with your table mates, the table location or the service. While the Lido is always an option for those that want to dine whenever, there is something to me to be able to enjoy a nice sitdown dinner with attentive table staff that pander to my whims, know my name and I know theirs. It also makes for a much more sociable experience when plans for the next day and the occurrences of the day just closing can be shared.

[joelamp]

Received a call today from my T/A that our documents have arrived and, lo and behold, we have received our preferred traditional dining assignment. Why we were waitlisted for 10+ months is something I will probably never know, but it appears at long last that all is well.

[hammybee]

Received a call today from my T/A that our documents have arrived and, lo and behold, we have received our preferred traditional dining assignment. Why we were waitlisted for 10+ months is something I will probably never know, but it appears at long last that all is well.

 

They hold back to accommodate potential groups who buy cabins in volume.

 

I am happy you got what you wanted.

[Alaska Bound Kim]

My wonderful parents are taking my brother's family and mine for a trip to Alaska on Westerdam. We will be a party of 6 adults plus 3 children ages 12, 8, and 6. We have As-you-Wish dining but I am wondering how this will work for a table of 9. Will we ever be able to sit together? Should we change it to fixed seating so we can make sure we get one of the few large 10-top tables? Also, am I right in understanding that you can make reservations for dining times outside of the peak but that all peak-times are walk-up only? Kimberly

[cf_chuck]

My wonderful parents are taking my brother's family and mine for a trip to Alaska on Westerdam. We will be a party of 6 adults plus 3 children ages 12, 8, and 6. We have As-you-Wish dining but I am wondering how this will work for a table of 9. Will we ever be able to sit together? Should we change it to fixed seating so we can make sure we get one of the few large 10-top tables? Also, am I right in understanding that you can make reservations for dining times outside of the peak but that all peak-times are walk-up only? Kimberly

 

My suggestion would be to go with fixed if you can. Fixed tends to fill up first. If you get stuck with AYWD, I suggest you call for a reservation early in the morning. Reservations open at 8. There are 2 fixed times where reservations are made, roughly corresponding to the early and late fixed seating times.

[hammybee]

My suggestion would be to go with fixed if you can. Fixed tends to fill up first. If you get stuck with AYWD, I suggest you call for a reservation early in the morning. Reservations open at 8. There are 2 fixed times where reservations are made, roughly corresponding to the early and late fixed seating times.

 

Yeesh Chuck. What's with the "getting stuck" thing? Generally speaking, the only differences are perception and dining at the same table/time versus any time. It's the same food and service.

 

Kim's group is a self contained party of 9. They probably stand a better chance of dining together in Open Seating, than not. But as always, it will depend on what the other 2000 passengers want, at the same time.

 

Reservations for Open Seating are not limited to two fixed times but rather earlier and later than prime time. Conversely, there is no prime time seating with fixed dining. You either dine early or late.

[cf_chuck]

Yeesh Chuck. What's with the "getting stuck" thing?

 

Someone that wants fixed seating and doesn't get it is stuck with AYWD. On my last cruise, I wanted fixed dining and couldn't get it so I felt stuck, take a fixed dining assignment that I don't want or go AYWD. In the same manner, I sailed in Oct. 07 which did not offer AYWD and could not get my preferred dining assignment and felt stuck. AYWD is a better option than getting stuck with a fixed dining assignment that I don't want, IMO.

 

Kim's group is a self contained party of 9. They probably stand a better chance of dining together in Open Seating, than not. But as always, it will depend on what the other 2000 passengers want, at the same time.

 

To me, the best chance of being seated together is to have a confirmed reservation ahead of time. I don't know which is better if someone is waitlisted vs. going AYWD. It seems that we agree that getting reservations is a good idea, the question is when the reservations are available (see below).

 

Reservations for Open Seating are not limited to two fixed times but rather earlier and later than prime time. Conversely, there is no prime time seating with fixed dining. You either dine early or late.

 

Perhaps this depends on the specific ship. I was on the Volendam in Feb 08 and what I reported was the way it was. I couldn't get my preferred dining assignment so I went AYWD. I was able to make reservations for early or late seating which corresponded roughly to the times for fixed seating. I did ask for reservations at times that did not map to the fixed seating dining times and I was told that, if I wanted to dine at those times, I would have to take my chances, possibly wait, and that they could not accommodate my reservations.

 

I'm not against AYWD and can see advantages to it that I have taken. My preference is for fixed dining. Fixed dining is a problem where there are late port departures and for those that want more flexibility. More flexible options are already available through the use of the Lido or in cabin dining. So to me, the late port departures are the predominant reason for going to the AYWD.

[hammybee]

Thank you for articulating. I appreciate " feeling stuck" when we don't get what we want, when we want it. I also appreciate that we can get that ole "stuck" feeling in fixed seating too, when we are assigned to an earlier or later time than we wanted. And I am not even going to go into the stuck business about tablemates from hell-o.:o

 

Kim prefers to dine at an exclusive table for her party of 9. This is potentially ackward in either venue. None of us know what the dining dynamics are going to be on any cruise because we don't know or particularily care what the other 2000 passengers want/do. Maybe this can best be accomplished in fixed seating- maybe not. Given the children's ages, dining late may not be the best ooutcome for them, further reducing their options.

 

I guess my internal alarm went off that a seed was being planted that open seating is somehow inferior to fixed seating. When it's a closed group like Kim's, what matters most I think, is their ability to dine together, preferably at a time that works best for them.

 

And while I am probably one of the most prolific posters, in terms of AYWD, :rolleyes: I probably prefer fixed seating on a cruise with a lot of @ sea days. I need the discipline of having to be somewhere at a fixed time, else I might never get a move on.