Government Taxes

[SoCalGal]

I'm not sure what happened to my original thread, but for those of you that are interested in knowing what "government" the taxes are to go to; according to my TA, they are US Federal government taxes added to our cruisefares. Princess recently "corrected" the amount they were charging us for the "government taxes" from $51 pp to $185 pp for our cruise next June on the Royal Princess.

[BurBunny]

I'm not sure what happened to my original thread, but for those of you that are interested in knowing what "government" the taxes are to go to; according to my TA, they are US Federal government taxes added to our cruisefares. Princess recently "corrected" the amount they were charging us for the "government taxes" from $51 pp to $185 pp for our cruise next June on the Royal Princess.

 

Not quite correct. They are the governmental fees assessed to the ship by the different entities, but they are not US Federal Taxes unless the port is a US port (such as a cruise on NCL America in Hawaii - but even then, some of the tax amount is assessed by the State of Hawaii). They are all the fees, such as in Alaska the $50/person head tax assessed due to a referendum that passed a year ago, several Caribbean ports have per person taxes as well as tonnage taxes, the Panama Canal Authority if you're taking a Panama Canal cruise as well.

 

Some lines are also rolling in their new fuel surcharges under the "taxes and fees" header instead of breaking them out as a separate line item.

[SoCalGal]

I'm not talking about PORT taxes...those are separate taxes. Our cruise is from Rome to Stockholm and the PORT taxes are collected per port. Our Federal Government collects taxes from Princess and they pass it along to the passengers. This is the letter from my TA:

 

What had happened was originally Princess gave us the $51pp amount for taxes but later informed us they made a mistake and the correct amount was supposed to be $185pp. These are Federal government taxes.

[SoCalGal]

And I'm not talking about the $5 pp fuel surcharge Princess has added to our fees either. I would show my invoice, but think I need to retain some privacy here. At the end of the day, the added fuel charges and the Federal tax increase has added over $400 to our cruisefare.

[newmexicoNita]

I'm not talking about PORT taxes...those are separate taxes. Our cruise is from Rome to Stockholm and the PORT taxes are collected per port. Our Federal Government collects taxes from Princess and they pass it along to the passengers. This is the letter from my TA:

 

What had happened was originally Princess gave us the $51pp amount for taxes but later informed us they made a mistake and the correct amount was supposed to be $185pp. These are Federal government taxes.

Burrbunny is correct; port charges and government taxes are collected by the ports not our government. that is why the government taxes are so high when sailing the Panama Canal.

 

Nita

[cherylandtk]

Your original thread is now on page 4:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=664924

 

A simple way to find an older thread is to click on your user name in any post you have made and then "find posts by". It will bring up all your posts and their threads and you can easily get back to the one you want without searching through pages and pages.

[SoCalGal]

Burrbunny is correct; port charges and government taxes are collected by the ports not our government. that is why the government taxes are so high when sailing the Panama Canal.

 

Nita

 

I think we are talking about two different taxes here. My invoice separates out the port charges from government taxes. Our port charges are $360 pp for our cruise and the government taxes (US Federal taxes) have gone from $51 pp to $185 pp.

[Pam in CA]

I'm not talking about PORT taxes...those are separate taxes. Our cruise is from Rome to Stockholm and the PORT taxes are collected per port. Our Federal Government collects taxes from Princess and they pass it along to the passengers. This is the letter from my TA:

 

What had happened was originally Princess gave us the $51pp amount for taxes but later informed us they made a mistake and the correct amount was supposed to be $185pp. These are Federal government taxes.

I still think BurBunny is correct and your TA is misleading. It doesn't not say "U.S." Federal Government taxes; federal government taxes could mean any country's taxes. Quite a few governments, including the State of Alaska, collect taxes. These are not port charges or U.S. Federal Government taxes, nor was BurBunny confused. She's probably more expert than almost anyone on the boards or even your TA.

[SoCalGal]

I did ask my TA about that and she said it was OUR federal government taxes....I have no reason not to believe her. Princess passes along to the consumer whatever taxes they have to pay I'm sure.

[cherylandtk]

Here is how it was explained to me a long time ago:

 

Port Fees or Port Charges are now included as part of the fare, but are usually displayed separately on an invoice, because the cruise line considers them to be non-commisionable for a TA. The Port Fees are a pro-rated amount of a single charge. Theoretically, a ship with 1 passenger or a ship with 3,000 passengers pays the same total Port Fee. When figuring port fees as part of the fare, the cruiseline generally takes the total ship Port Fee and divides by the ship capacity; the result is the Port Fee for each fare.

 

Government Fees and Taxes are charges by the country or state where the ship docks; they are assessed on a per person basis. So if a ship with one passenger docks, the country charges 19.95. If a ship with 1,000 passengers dock, the country charges 19,950.00.

 

So Cal Gal--I think your TA may have used the words 'federal government taxes' and you took it to mean to mean US Federal government taxes. Other countries besides the US have a centralized government over individual states, provinces or regions; those are also correctly called federal governments.

 

In the long run, it does not matter whether the taxes and fees are US federal or some other entity and is not worth arguing over--its a charge that Princess has no control over and will definitely pass on to the passenger.

[BurBunny]

Something important to realize here. What is commonly called Port Charges aren't actually the port charges. They're now officially termed Non Commissionable Fares by the cruise lines, though several TAs will still call them port charges when communicating with their clients. These charges are NOT the fees assessed by the ports, but instead are set by the cruise lines as additional fare which are not commissionable to agents. This was changed several years ago due to a law suit brought by the Florida Attorney General as the cruise lines were misleading people by adding things other than the actual taxes into what they termed port charges. But change happens slowly, and people are used to hearing port charges, so the term remained.

 

Taxes ARE the real port charges, and as I stated above are the governmental fees and other charges. Yes, cruise lines do pass along the fees they're assessed by the various ports and other governmental agencies for sailing in their waters, but not their US income taxes. And yes, these taxes can change from the time you book to the time you sail and will be passed along to you regardless of whether you're paid in full. They're considered to be "pass through fees" that are passed through to the passenger.

 

BTW - thanks Pam ::: blush :::

 

::: edited to add ::: Anita Durham-Potter of Tripso/MSNBC did an article about this a few months ago. She delved into it due to some lines charging a supplement for singles on the "port" charges and came to me to get clarification. After several conversations, and her discussing it with others as well, she wrote a good article about it. You can read it at http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17466739/. This is an oft-misunderstood area of cruise costs. Hopefully this will clarify it a bit.

[SoCalGal]

Something important to realize here. What is commonly called Port Charges aren't actually the port charges. They're now officially termed Non Commissionable Fares by the cruise lines, though several TAs will still call them port charges when communicating with their clients. These charges are NOT the fees assessed by the ports, but instead are set by the cruise lines as additional fare which are not commissionable to agents. This was changed several years ago due to a law suit brought by the Florida Attorney General as the cruise lines were misleading people by adding things other than the actual taxes into what they termed port charges. But change happens slowly, and people are used to hearing port charges, so the term remained.

 

Taxes ARE the real port charges, and as I stated above are the governmental fees and other charges. Yes, cruise lines do pass along the fees they're assessed by the various ports and other governmental agencies for sailing in their waters, but not their US income taxes. And yes, these taxes can change from the time you book to the time you sail and will be passed along to you regardless of whether you're paid in full. They're considered to be "pass through fees" that are passed through to the passenger.

 

BTW - thanks Pam ::: blush :::

 

From International Cruiseline Assn. website:

 

What are Port Taxes/Government Fees?

Port Taxes are the port charges, which are fees assessed by government and other agencies, relating to the ship entering, leaving, docking, anchoring and/or remaining in port (e.g., stevedoring, waste removal, payroll for port employees). Government Fees include any and all fees, charges, and taxes imposed by U.S. and/or foreign governments or quasi-governmental authorities, including U.S. custom fees, head taxes, hotel taxes, air taxes incurred as part of a land tour, inspection fees, immigration and naturalization fees, and Internal Revenue Service fees.

 

````````````````````````````

 

Under government fees did you notice that it says taxes imposed by U.S several times? And also IRS fees. Somehow I think the U.S. Treasury gets it's hands on lots of our money one way or another.

[Princess Patches]

I understand your displeasure due to the large increase in your government tax charge. Your taxes more than tripled and that is the largest pre-cruise increase I have seen in 25 years of cruising. I have only had my government taxes change twice pre-cruise and both times the increase was in the $10-20 range. Your total $400 increase (fuel charges and government taxes combined) seems exorbitant to me too.

[cruiseco]

 

Government Fees and Taxes are charges by the country or state where the ship docks; they are assessed on a per person basis.

 

It can even be more complicated than that. I recall a breakdown of the gov't fees/taxes involved with a ship homeported in the port of Los angeles. There were something like 17 gov't agencies involved, each getting a piece of the action.

 

Some agencies do charge on a per pax basis. Some, like the CA Coastal Commission charged a flat rate to offset costs for future possible fuel spill cleanups. The DEA charges per dog/handler pair assigned to the ship, no matter how large or small. The Air Quality Board charges per ton of particulate matter discharged into the air while in the port so a older, smaller ship might pay more than a newer huge ship that's cleaner. The City of LA is in there, the city's Port Commission gets a chunk, and on and on.

 

Anyway, to the original poster, your TA is incorrect if he/she did originally say that "taxes" means only US Federal taxes. It encompass any taxes levied by any gov't entity (foreign, domestic, state, local, federal, whatever) that apply specifically to that sailing.

[willysgrandma]

From International Cruiseline Assn. website:

 

What are Port Taxes/Government Fees?

Port Taxes are the port charges, which are fees assessed by government and other agencies, relating to the ship entering, leaving, docking, anchoring and/or remaining in port (e.g., stevedoring, waste removal, payroll for port employees). Government Fees include any and all fees, charges, and taxes imposed by U.S. and/or foreign governments or quasi-governmental authorities, including U.S. custom fees, head taxes, hotel taxes, air taxes incurred as part of a land tour, inspection fees, immigration and naturalization fees, and Internal Revenue Service fees.

 

````````````````````````````

 

Under government fees did you notice that it says taxes imposed by U.S several times? And also IRS fees. Somehow I think the U.S. Treasury gets it's hands on lots of our money one way or another.

 

Your first quote had to be a mistake for a $51 per person charge. I am paying more than that for a 7 day New England cruise. You are going on a 16 day European cruise, correct?

[newmexicoNita]

Something important to realize here. What is commonly called Port Charges aren't actually the port charges. They're now officially termed Non Commissionable Fares by the cruise lines, though several TAs will still call them port charges when communicating with their clients. These charges are NOT the fees assessed by the ports, but instead are set by the cruise lines as additional fare which are not commissionable to agents. This was changed several years ago due to a law suit brought by the Florida Attorney General as the cruise lines were misleading people by adding things other than the actual taxes into what they termed port charges. But change happens slowly, and people are used to hearing port charges, so the term remained.

 

Taxes ARE the real port charges, and as I stated above are the governmental fees and other charges. Yes, cruise lines do pass along the fees they're assessed by the various ports and other governmental agencies for sailing in their waters, but not their US income taxes. And yes, these taxes can change from the time you book to the time you sail and will be passed along to you regardless of whether you're paid in full. They're considered to be "pass through fees" that are passed through to the passenger.

 

BTW - thanks Pam ::: blush :::

 

::: edited to add ::: Anita Durham-Potter of Tripso/MSNBC did an article about this a few months ago. She delved into it due to some lines charging a supplement for singles on the "port" charges and came to me to get clarification. After several conversations, and her discussing it with others as well, she wrote a good article about it. You can read it at http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17466739/. This is an oft-misunderstood area of cruise costs. Hopefully this will clarify it a bit.

bunny, we are wasting our time, SoCalgal is bound and determined those taxes are US Government taxes, I am a TA myself, have been for several years, you and I, as well as others do understand. I think I will just drop it right here. She is reading US or foreign governments and thinks they are US taxes because of the word US or Foreign.

 

Nita