Norvis Virus

[pudgy]

How long does it take to get rid of the virus from a ship? Once they get back into port do they do a total scrub down and that takes care of the virus?

[editor@cruisecritic]

Hi. The ship is not necessarily the problem. Norovirus thrives in enclosed places; schools, restaurants and hospitals are by no means immune. We offer some tips on preventative measures -- go here: http://www.cruisecritic.com/cruiseplanning/articles.cfm?ID=61. And by all means, anywhere you go, wash your hands a lot, use antibacterial lotion wherever available, and don't touch a lot of handrails and such.

 

From someone who just recently had noro -- on a ship but ironically caught it on land and was one of 200 people traveling together who, alas, brought it onboard -- trust me. Wash your hands everywhere....

 

At least on the ship they took good care of us, kept our cabins clean, and brought us room service ginger ale and chicken soup. Don't necessarily even get that at home....

 

Carolyn

 

Carolyn Spencer Brown

Editor in Chief

Cruise Critic

[vickie_bernie]

had it four years ago -- not sure where I got it from, but likely from a restaurant where we celebrated a retirement. 20 hours late I was sticking close to home and washroom. It was horrible, but was feeling better after 24 hours and completely normal after 48 hours, but wasn't eating much.

 

Wash your hands everywhere!

[Philip217]

It is called Noro Virus, or Norwalk Virus, or Norwalk-like Virus, or Roto-Virus. At home, many people call it the Stomach Flu or the 3 day Flu. Every year, abouit 25 million Americans suffer from it. Most of them are not on a cruise ship when they get it.

It is the second-most contagious virus in the world, after the Rhino-virus, better known as the common cold.

When a ship has virus problems - as most ships sailing out of American Ports in winter have right now, they do a very serious cleaning between cruises. The ship's crew - and sometimes outside contractors - wipe down every possible surface of the vessel interior with a very strong chemical bleach. Then they use foggers and wide area sprayers that put a layer of this same bleach on every surface of the interior of the ship. The ship is as clean as a hospital.

 

Then they embark new passengers.

 

The CDC tells us that they estimate that on every cruise on every ship that leaves an American Port, between 25 and 60 passengers bring the virus onboard with them. Some know they have it and are willing to gamble your vacation that you won't catch it from them. They refuse to admit they are carrying the virus, because they know they will be quarantined for a minimum 48 hours and do not want to miss anything.

Others pick it up in airports, airplanes or hotels on their way to the ship and do not show any symptoms until after the cruise begins (and after they have contaminated many areas of the ship).

 

After exposure, symptoms normally develop 24 to 48 hours later, and last about 3 days. Typical symptoms are fever, muscle aches, headaches, vomiting, nausea, and diarrhea.

 

The Norwalk season happpens at the same time as the flu season. Both are spread by people staying indoors in close proximity for long periods of time. Typically in winter when the weather is not so good. It is also transmitted on airplanes, airports and in hotels when many people are traveling - like during big holiday periods (Thanksgiving, Christmas, Hanukkah).

 

If you come down with the virus on the first or second day of the cruise, chances are very good that you brought it with you, or caught it while traveling to the ship. If you catch it on day three or afterward, chances are good that you caught it on the ship, in a port, or on a tour from the ship.

 

Washing your hands thoroughly very often and keeping your hands out of your mouth are the best ways to avoid contamination when you are in high risk areas.

 

I have worked on ships for many years, with many Noro-virus outbreaks. During that time, I have shaken hands with thousands of passengers who had Noro-virus. I have never gotten it.

[Pam in CA]

The CDC tells us that they estimate that on every cruise on every ship that leaves an American Port, between 25 and 60 passengers bring the virus onboard with them. Some know they have it and are willing to gamble your vacation that you won't catch it from them. They refuse to admit they are carrying the virus, because they know they will be quarantined for a minimum 48 hours and do not want to miss anything.

Others pick it up in airports, airplanes or hotels on their way to the ship and do not show any symptoms until after the cruise begins (and after they have contaminated many areas of the ship).

As has been said, they clean the affected cabins, and the ship, very carefully. However, it's the passengers arriving who bring it onboard all over again. :(

[Colo Cruiser]

It is also not always cleaned up completely either. :)

[Keith1010]

They focus the most on the areas of the ship that had the problem if the problem has been isoldated to a minimum number of passengers. There have been a few times over the years where the problem was rampant on the cruise ships and in those cases they actually had to take them out of service for a day or two for a thorough cleaning of the entire ship.

 

Keith

[loveJake]

We were on the 12/6 sailing of the Emerald. We heard that there was a small outbreak on the cruise before us, also heard a small amount were sick on our cruise. Now reading reports I heard it was bad on the 16th voyage. One thing to remember, I saw a lot of people not using the sanitizers before going into the buffets. We ate every meal except 1 there. I used the sanitizer before getting my food, and again after before I ate and had my husband do the same. We did not get sick. We also had small bottles of hand santizer that we carried with us and always used a couple of times while in other places and activities on the ship.

[San Diego Ellie]

I have seen so many passengers skip the hand santizing in the buffet. It is a shame that all ships do not have a crew member designated to enforcing this. (I have occasionally seen it). However, to protect yourself the best you can, carry a small bottle of hand sanitzer and use it every time you serve yourself (using those community utensils) right before you eat. I carry it everywhere I go on the ship and sanitize my hands frequently.

[pretenda]

We were on the 12/6 sailing of the Emerald. We heard that there was a small outbreak on the cruise before us, also heard a small amount were sick on our cruise. Now reading reports I heard it was bad on the 16th voyage. One thing to remember, I saw a lot of people not using the sanitizers before going into the buffets. We ate every meal except 1 there. I used the sanitizer before getting my food, and again after before I ate and had my husband do the same. We did not get sick. We also had small bottles of hand santizer that we carried with us and always used a couple of times while in other places and activities on the ship.

We were on the 5/5 sailing of the Emerald out of Rome to Venice and I got the virus towards the end of our cruise, despite being ultra careful and washing at every available opportunity. It is awful - I felt absolutely dreadful for 48 hours. Luckily there was a wonderful doctor and nurse on board who looked after me very well. There were a few cases onboard. I sure lost some weight.:)

Glenda

[willysgrandma]

I live in NY and there was a huge outbreak of it here totally unrelated to a cruise ship - I got it after going to a restaurant (and thoroughly washing my hands). I was sick for 24 hours and wiped out for two additional days.

 

You can get it anywhere, not just on a cruise ship. Try not to touch rails on the ship, and wash your hands constantly to try and avoid it. And take some hand sanitizer with you.

[Copper Lanterns]

Just put my two cents worth under the "Just off the Emerald" thread

I wanted to put it under this thread but somehow got mixed up. If you are interested in the Noro Virus, we had a real experience with it. Check the

"Just off the Emerald thread."

[basawasa]

Does getting a flu shot help avoid the virus?

[Spikesgirl]

Sorry - there is nothing that can prevent Noro. The flu shot is for influenza, which can kill you. Noro only makes you wish you were dead, although it can be a very real threat to the young, old and people with compromised immune systems.

 

Washing your hands and then keeping them away from your nose, eyes and mouth can help, but nothing is 100%.

 

Charlie

[gooch47]

I'm not sure the little hand sanitizer bottles will help. This is a virus and unless you have something special, the OTC stuff isn't made for that.

 

But using the ship's sanitizer again after serving yourself and before eating is probably a very good idea.

 

I've had it at least twice on cruise ships. I'm terrible about touching things and also about putting my fingers in my mouth. (I bite my nails. :o ) My hubby touches NOTHING and I don't think I've ever seen him put his fingers anywhere near his mouth except to eat. Guess who has never had it!

[Philip217]

loveJake raises a very important issue - Sanitizing Gels.

 

The general public seems to believe that using these gels protect you from Norovirus.

In actual practice, the opposite seems to be true.

 

Sanitizing Gels and sprays kill bacteria - but they have NO effect on viruses.

 

The CDC has conducted many tests that indicate that placing sanititizing gels all over the ship actually increases the Norovirus outbreaks. Using the gels gives people a false sense of security, causing them to think their hands are virus-free. Not true.

Using the gels has also become a substitute for washing hands. Fewer people wash their hands when the gels are offered.

 

When we place sanitizing gels at the gangway, a very interesting behaviour pattern emerges. Passengers always board the ship with items in their hands. In order to apply the gel to their hands, they must empty them. Where do the items go? The possibly contaminated cabin key normally goes into the mouth !!! The possibly contaminated shopping bags are placed on the floor, further contaminating them. Then, after the hands are sanitized, they are immediately contaminated by taking the card form teh mouth and picking up the shopping bags from the floor.

 

CDC has advised all cruise lines to stop placing sanitizing gels at gangways, and only to use the gels at restaurant entrances during outbreaks. The rationale is that the gels at dining rooms will at least remind passengers that there is a risk - even though the gels do not protect against that risk.

[Boytjie]

The general public seems to believe that using these gels protect you from Norovirus.

In actual practice, the opposite seems to be true.

 

Sanitizing Gels and sprays kill bacteria - but they have NO effect on viruses.

 

I am not sure that is 100% correct. The FDA does not allow the manufactureres from claiming it kills virusses, but even the CDC advises the use of sanitizing gels in addtion to proper hand washing.

 

The CDC has conducted many tests that indicate that placing sanititizing gels all over the ship actually increases the Norovirus outbreaks. Using the gels gives people a false sense of security, causing them to think their hands are virus-free. Not true.

Using the gels has also become a substitute for washing hands. Fewer people wash their hands when the gels are offered.

 

And I think that is the key issue - people think that using the gels replaces proper hand washing.

[Seenie]

Our experience on Island Princess figures prominently in my recent cruise review:

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=36014.

[qiangf2]

just have to religiously wash hands over and over.. Don't touch your mouth with your barehands..

[Philip217]

Boytjie,

 

Yes, the CDC does advise using sanitizing gels IN ADDITION TO proper handwashing. And that's where the system fails.

 

I currently have a CDC Officer sailing with my ship (not Princess) to observe cleanliness practices.

The ship is scoring very well.

Last night we stood near the toilets at the restaurant entrance and watched 600 passengers go for dinner. We counted 3 passengers who washed their hands before entering.

 

Do you think the other 597 washed their hands in the cabin before going to dinner??

Even if they did, do you think that they managed to avoid touching all elevator buttons, door knobs, and hand rails on the way to the restaurant?

[BJS]

loveJake raises a very important issue - Sanitizing Gels.

 

The general public seems to believe that using these gels protect you from Norovirus.

In actual practice, the opposite seems to be true.

 

Sanitizing Gels and sprays kill bacteria - but they have NO effect on viruses.

 

The CDC has conducted many tests that indicate that placing sanititizing gels all over the ship actually increases the Norovirus outbreaks. Using the gels gives people a false sense of security, causing them to think their hands are virus-free. Not true.

Using the gels has also become a substitute for washing hands. Fewer people wash their hands when the gels are offered.

 

When we place sanitizing gels at the gangway, a very interesting behaviour pattern emerges. Passengers always board the ship with items in their hands. In order to apply the gel to their hands, they must empty them. Where do the items go? The possibly contaminated cabin key normally goes into the mouth !!! The possibly contaminated shopping bags are placed on the floor, further contaminating them. Then, after the hands are sanitized, they are immediately contaminated by taking the card form teh mouth and picking up the shopping bags from the floor.

 

CDC has advised all cruise lines to stop placing sanitizing gels at gangways, and only to use the gels at restaurant entrances during outbreaks. The rationale is that the gels at dining rooms will at least remind passengers that there is a risk - even though the gels do not protect against that risk.

 

Interesting comments- but doing just these things stopped an outbreak on the Star Princess 12/4/07. The ship was very pro-active and stopped the outbreak at less than 60 cases (reported).

 

When 11 cases had been reported they did the following: announced daily the status, sent out guidelines regarding hand washing- not putting hands near your mouth-advised only using the bathroom in your cabin- and using the gel placed around the ship, stopped vacuuming the carpets, removed bread-salt & pepper shakers- sugars-condiments from the tables (they also wiped all the menus after they were used), had someone at the gangway dispensing gel as you boarded, served everything in the Horizon Court (changed serving tongs every 15 minutes).

 

When we boarded there was gel at each restaurant, next to each computer, and through out the ship. These dispensers were ignored by the majority but once the announcement was made about the outbreak they were in constant use.

 

We had been on the Diamond Princess Jan 2005 and never saw this type of pro-active action taken and the virus hit many, many people including DH.

How long does it take to get rid of the virus from a ship? Once they get back into port do they do a total scrub down and that takes care of the virus?

I can't say how long it takes for the virus to be gotten rid of but the bread, salt and pepper, etc. was returned to the tables by the 5th or 6th day and an announcement was made that there had not been any new reported cases. The cruise continued for another 8 or 9 days without any announcements of new cases.

 

They do a continual scrub down but the room steward also told us that once the cruise ended the rooms where "sick" people had been would have a team come and totally disinfect it.

 

Every since DH got noro on the Diamond cruise we bring Lysol wipes and wipe everything down in the room when we first enter. We are continually washing our hands, never put our hands near our face, use the hand gels before and after eating, using the computers, touching anything on the ship, and never use the public bathrooms. We carry hand gel and use it after touching elevator buttons, hand rails, and even the menus. We avoid the casino and the Horizon Court if at all possible. Even the MD on the Diamond said every case had eaten in the Horizon Court and our dining steward on the Star told us that even with changing the serving utensils in the Horizon Court it was the most likely place to pick up the virus. I know we are probably going way beyond what is necessary but once you've had the virus, been so sick you can't walk, confined to your room for days, and totally ruined your cruise you'll do what ever you can to avoid getting the virus again.

 

.

[Boytjie]

Do you think the other 597 washed their hands in the cabin before going to dinner??

Even if they did, do you think that they managed to avoid touching all elevator buttons, door knobs, and hand rails on the way to the restaurant?

 

Many of the 597 could have, you don't know where they were coming from and seeing only 3 go into a bathroom doesn't tell you much.

 

On the CB we could leave our cabin after washing our hands and head up to the Horizon Cafe 2 decks up and the first thing we would touch would be the plates and cutlery handed to us.

 

I for the life of me cannot understand why people won't wash their hands especially when eating - and I am not talking about cruise ships only. People will come off the NY subway and go into a restaurant and sit down to eat without going to wash up first. Urhg.

[mefck]

When going out to eat, I always wash my hands after being seated but before I eat. That way the rest of the party isn't held up.