Need an Expert Opinion ......

[jbuch02]

First time to Rome but I’m an obsessive planner (that revolves around relaxing, wine and food ... you get the point), traveled to Europe before and have read extensively on Rome and the sites with Fodors, Steves etc. I have a 4-day time frame for touring. I’d be interested in someone with experience in visiting Rome to comment on this itinerary:

 

Day 1 (1/2 day): Transfer from the Airport w/driver (1PM arrival) to Hotel in Trastevere, drop off bags, then do the squares (Pantheon, Navona, Campo dei fiori, Trevi and Spanish steps). Done by 5 to 6 PM as I plan on being a zombie after traveling from the US to Rome that preceding night.

 

Day 2 (9AM): From the hotel in Trastevere with driver: Ostiense Road to Pyramid built for Caius Cestio and inside the Roman Wall ….. Circus Maximus, Palatine Hill to see the Arch of Constantine and the Coloseum. Maybe visit inside the Coloseum/Forum (buy tickets in advance if I do to avoid lines). Then drive to Piazza Venezia - Vittorio Emanuele Monument. Lunch in here somewhere.

Sometime around 1PM on Day 2 …. I’m told to do this b/c the lines/crowds are much shorter/smaller…. go to Vatican Museum and pay for a guide (60 EU and about 2 hours/Advance tickets???) - the Raphael Rooms, Sistine Chapel,Vatican Museum. After leaving the museum (around 3 to 4PM) go to St Peter's Square then back to the Hotel in Trastevere by 5-6PM.

 

Day 3: (9AM to 2 to 3 PM) With Driver, tour Catacombs, Borghese Gallery etc.

 

Day 4: (10 AM to 3 or 4 PM) Day trip with wine tasting, Bracciano lake, Cerveteri and Ceriacciano Castle.

I'm also interested in ways to cut the cost of having a driver/guide (not a licensed tour guide) with me during each segment above. Suggestions would be helpful. I've got no problems finding my way around Rome on foot and want the driver/guide only to maximize my touring time as I've already recognized some of the sites are too far apart to walk. Thanks for the help, folks.

[Cruise Junky]

I'm not claiming to be an expert by any means. But I don't see a need for a driver on Day 2 at all. You could do it all on foot or by a quick cab ride. Also day 3, the same.

[Paul&Kathy]

Your itinerary sounds wonderful and very comprehensive. Do you really need a driver, especially for the Vatican and Coloseum etc days ? Rome is very easy by public transport (we have used it many times) and you can buy a ticket to cover the bus & metro for just a few euros a day. I think you would be paying the driver to sit about waiting for you most of the time. Maybe the money would be better spent hiring a guide at some of the sites ? Especially the forum area, as it is hard to visualise what you are looking at without someone to explain.

[eh2zed]

Since you are an obsessive planner try www.stuardtclarkesrome.com/ Stuardt has suggested multi day itineraries. He is an American who has been to Rome over 30 times. Non commercial.

[Capsu78]

I'd say arrival day is a bit ambitious. If you are traveling overnite, I know my top priority is a shower, then a nap, then wake up in time to hopefully sync up with local time. Suggestion would be to wake up around 6 and then(A) head out to however many POI's you can hit local to your hotel or (B) splurge on a Hoho bus to circle the town and master the lay out of Rome.

 

I would trim the ambitions by about 1/2 for the rest of the days, as well, you need to be a "monkey on crack" to hit the entire "to do" list you have laid out.

 

But thats just me...

[cberge]

Are you planning on "seeing" anything or just going to see how much you can fit into 4 days??? If you can't ever get back to Rome then go for it,but IMHO you are cramming waaay to much.:eek:

[CorgiGuy]

Hi,

 

I'd just like to comment on your day of arrival. I would break my time up a little differently. First off, if you are scheduled to land @ 1pm, I bet it will be around 2:30pm by the time you arrive at your hotel & are finished checking in.

 

Here is an alternative suggestion for arrival day:

 

Once checked in, I would walk and take in Campo dei Fiori, Plazzo Navano and the Pantheon, which are all very close to each other. That should bring you back at your hotel around 5:30. I would lay down for an hour, shower to freshen up, and then taxi or public metro to the Spanish Steps, then walk down to Trevi Fountain & have a bite to eat by the fountain. The Trevi fountain is pretty during the daylight, but personally, I think it is WONDERFUL at night. Then depending how much "Gas you have left in your tank", you can either walk back to your Hotel via Castle Sant' Angelo bridge(Lovely lit up at night), or take taxi back to hotel.

 

In case you are not already aware of it, here is a web site that provides some good info regarding public transportation in Rome. Also, about 1/2 down the site there is a walking guide grid which gives approx. walking time needed to get to a number of the sites your interested in seeing on day of arrival. Just copy this into your Internet Explorer window:

 

http://www.enjoyrome.com/tourist/cityguide/public.transportation.html

 

Ciao,

 

CorgiGuy

[rebeccalouise]

Wow- you are worse than my Dad!

 

First of all the first thing you want to see is the Vatican.

 

After that use the hop-on-hop off bus to see the rest.

 

Don't do anything the day you arrive. Just walk from your hotel to some sites and then take a well-deserved nap! After that a nice dinner in an off the beaten track place.

 

Day Two do the Vatican, Trevi, Colluseum.

 

Day three some of the other things.

[TLCOhio]

Maybe this schedule is packing in too much. I don't know the age, style and intensity of this traveler. In part, it's a personal choice. I would urge allowing some time to dine outside, walk around, enjoy the people and informal sights, etc. Rome is very congested, busy, having lots of noise and intensity. You need some breaks to enjoy some time with others and/or by yourself. Given the driving challenges in Rome, there are part of this town where walking can be as fast and probably more enjoyable than sitting in a car. You've gotten a good mix of suggestions to consider.

 

Here are two other key personal suggestions from my experiences there:

 

1. Relax and enjoy! The Romans already controlled the world once and are not in that much of a hurry. It will all work out. Be patient! That's their approach to life!

 

2. It's hard to have a bad meal in Italy! If you like seafood, you'll find lots of great dishes there. But most everything is wonderful. Enjoy the food and wine!

 

FINAL THOUGHTS ON ROME:

This vivid city has so many unforgettable images: St. Peter's Dome against a pink-and-red sunset; the array of broken marble columns and ruins of temples of the Roman Forum; a Bernini 17th-century colonnade resting against an Egyptian obelisk carried off from Heliopolis while Jesus was still alive; Renaissance frescoes in a papal palace built on top of the tomb of a Roman emperor.

 

Rome's 2,700 years of history are laid open with every step. Nero fiddling, Mark Antony praising Caesar, and Charlemagne being crowned. Walk in their footsteps past the masterpieces of Michelangelo, sip your caffè in the shadow of Mussolini, and dodge Vespas speeding by Baroque palazzi and Egyptian obelisks. This is REAL HISTORY here in Rome, not a marginal Disney World imitation!

 

Terry in Ohio

[lovetodream]

I am by no means an "expert" but I will try to be helpful. I've been to Rome a few times and these comments are just my humble opinion on your itinerary:

 

1) WHY use a driver at all? Rome IS walkable, do-able and very easy to navigate on your own! I see that you are a retired Marine, so you're able to fend for yourself! Rome is FUN on your own! Between walking, hopping subways and grabbing taxis, you'll complete some of your itinerary at a fraction of the cost if you do it on your own rather than hire a driver.

 

My sister, niece and brother-in-law (who is an attorney but lacks common sense, if you know what I mean) just got back from 5 days in Rome and they did it ALL on their own with a semi-guided church tour...they had a fantastic time! Think about it!

 

2) As another poster stated, Rome is to be savored more than chugged! It really is a beautiful city and no matter how hard you try, you won't see it all in 1, 2, 3 or 12 visits. It's worthy of several visits! So prioritize, slow down and ENJOY! SLOW DOWN & ENJOY!

 

3) Your Day 1 will be great with a late afternoon stroll to the Pantheon (Piazza Rotondo)~absolutely beautiful at sunset~because it's very near Trastevere. From the Pantheon, the Trevi Fountain (to the east) and Piazza Navona (to the west) are rather close (albeit in opposite directions) but CLOSE. And the Spanish Steps are a wee bit further east of the Trevi Fountain...you probably can squeeze them in, too...DH & I did. Actually, if you look at a map, you can cut across the Piazza Navona on your way to the Pantheon, the Trevi Fountain & the Spanish Steps...IF YOU HAVE THE STEAM!

 

 

Campo dei Fiori will be closing shop by the time you check into your hotel in Trastevere @ 2:00 or 3:00 pm, so save yourself the trip there because the fun of that Piazza is going in early morning. Anyhow, grab some dinner either in Trastevere, at the Piazza Rotondo, near the Spanish Steps, etc, etc...call it a night!

 

4) NO OFFENSE but your Day 2 is un-doable, IMHO. Completely pass on "Ostiense Road to Pyramid built for Caius Cestio and inside the Roman Wall …..." The entire ancient city of ROME is inside the Roman Wall and of course, Rome is LOADED with obelisks, monuments, columns and other Etruscan delights. Rather than the pyramid, try to see Bernini's Elefantino & Obelisk at Santa Maria Sopra Minerva (which is right behind the Pantheon)...absolutely glorious!

 

 

Circus Maximus & Palantine Hill are ancient "sections" that now have trees, walkways, piazzas and of course, ancient ruins. The Palantine Hill has the Campidoglio and the Capitoline Museum, which are the real attractions. Also, the Circus Maximus and Palantine Hill really can be seen if you tour the Roman Forum because they are both sorta adjacent to the Roman Forum. What you really should think about seeing are the Roman and Imperial Forums.

 

5) To see the Arch of Constantine up close and personal, you need to gain access into (dare I say it again) the Roman Forum, which is adjacent to the Coloseum. The Arch of Constantine sorta separates the Coloseum from the entrance to the Roman Forum. I think they JUST started charging a small admission fee to the Roman Forum, as it used to be free entrance. These two sites can easily take an entire day to see throughly. Depends on how compulsive you are & how much you enjoy viewing ancient Roman ruins ;)

 

 

The Piazza Venezia and the Vittorio Emanuele Monument (Wedding Cake monument) are sites that you will pass often, as the Piazza Venezia is a major rotary on the southern end of Rome and the Wedding Cake monument cannot be missed even if you try!

 

6) IMHO, there's NO WAY you are going to really see much or appreciate anything if you try to do the Vatican, St. Peter's Basilica, St. Peter's Square, The Sistine Chapel, the other Vatican museums & the Vatican Gardens in a couple of hours. No way! Don't even bother to try! And IMHO, doing the "Vatican" in its entirety AND the Coloseum or the Roman Forum in one day is un-doable. Truthfully, doing the "Vatican" alone in its entirety, especially if you include most of the Vatican Museums in with everything else, is un-doable in one day. Unless you plan on taking speed before the visit :o

 

 

7) Your Day 3 seems do-able but remember...visiting the Borghese Galleria is by appointment only. So, you'll have to get your tickets to the Borghese first, then see if your visit to the Catacombs fits in.

 

Listen, if you just want to do "drive-bys" of all the famous historical Roman tourist "sites," ALL hotels offer the "Rome By Night" tour (which can also be done by day). But you won't get to really see anything, if you catch my drift.

 

Slow down and enjoy...savoring Rome is much more important, IMHO, than racing through it...really.

 

I hope I have been helpful to you!

[lovetodream]

Maybe this schedule is packing in too much. I don't know the age, style and intensity of this traveler. In part, it's a personal choice. I would urge allowing some time to dine outside, walk around, enjoy the people and informal sights, etc. Rome is very congested, busy, having lots of noise and intensity. You need some breaks to enjoy some time with others and/or by yourself. Given the driving challenges in Rome, there are part of this town where walking can be as fast and probably more enjoyable than sitting in a car. You've gotten a good mix of suggestions to consider.

 

Here are two other key personal suggestions from my experiences there:

 

1. Relax and enjoy! The Romans already controlled the world once and are not in that much of a hurry. It will all work out. Be patient! That's their approach to life!

 

2. It's hard to have a bad meal in Italy! If you like seafood, you'll find lots of great dishes there. But most everything is wonderful. Enjoy the food and wine!

 

FINAL THOUGHTS ON ROME:

This vivid city has so many unforgettable images: St. Peter's Dome against a pink-and-red sunset; the array of broken marble columns and ruins of temples of the Roman Forum; a Bernini 17th-century colonnade resting against an Egyptian obelisk carried off from Heliopolis while Jesus was still alive; Renaissance frescoes in a papal palace built on top of the tomb of a Roman emperor.

 

Rome's 2,700 years of history are laid open with every step. Nero fiddling, Mark Antony praising Caesar, and Charlemagne being crowned. Walk in their footsteps past the masterpieces of Michelangelo, sip your caffè in the shadow of Mussolini, and dodge Vespas speeding by Baroque palazzi and Egyptian obelisks. This is REAL HISTORY here in Rome, not a marginal Disney World imitation!

 

Terry in Ohio

 

OMG!!! How beautifully stated! This post nearly brought tears to my eyes! I love Rome! I LOVE Italy! Thank you for stating this so beautifully!

[TLCOhio]

THANKS for the nice, wise and very kind comments from Toni Lee! The pictures are wonderful and the collective comments to "SLOW DOWN & ENJOY" are so very key and important. Those in Rome know to savor, not gulp it down in a rush. Terry in Ohio

[jbuch02]

Great replies ..... first, as one of you noted, I am a retired Marine so, it is my nature to plan, plan, plan .... I also liked the suggestion to savor rather than chug Rome. Perfect!

 

The very detailed response with the pictures posted was terrific and I found the suggestions most helpful. The effort is most appreciated ...... this was just one out of many great responses ... thanks. I'm going to go back to the drawing board, maps in hand from the excellent links provided and replan .... mostly walking.

 

For everyone's benefit who contributed, I'll repost for a second critique. Thanks again and I hope this thread is useful to others who are in the same boat as I am.

[lovetodream]

Great replies ..... first, as one of you noted, I am a retired Marine so, it is my nature to plan, plan, plan .... I also liked the suggestion to savor rather than chug Rome. Perfect!

 

The very detailed response with the pictures posted was terrific and I found the suggestions most helpful. The effort is most appreciated ...... this was just one out of many great responses ... thanks. I'm going to go back to the drawing board, maps in hand from the excellent links provided and replan .... mostly walking.

 

For everyone's benefit who contributed, I'll repost for a second critique. Thanks again and I hope this thread is useful to others who are in the same boat as I am.

 

Thank you SO MUCH for taking the time to respond back! That really menas a lot to me!

 

Depending on my time management (and my mood :p ), I will spend quite some time responding to questions when a poster seems to be honestly seeking help or feedback, such as your initial question. This "Europe" thread seems to be great for that versus some of the general "Carnival" or "RCCL" or "Princess" threads, which often disintegrate into name calling, one-upmanship and flaming :(

 

I always try to give a "thank you" to folks who take the time out to respond to my questions. Terry (TLCOhio) responds in kind and he is a WORLD of knowledge because it appears as though he is in the European travel industry, as I am not. I have been to Italy several times and I love Rome! You will too!

 

And thank you sir, for serving for our country...that means a lot to me!

 

Please get back to us and let us know what you come up with! Best wishes!

[bunnyette]

I will recommend Through Eternity Walking Tours...they have several itineraries which don't take up more then a couple of hours. The guides are American or British and very good. The tours are well priced, you will get something out of it. They have a great website, just do a google search to find them.

 

It won't take your whole day but the guides are great at suggestions for other activities too.

[yldwest]

We were in Rome 3 days pre-cruise & bought a "Roma Pass" at the 'TI' at the airport. (just outside baggage claim & took only about 5 mins) It was well worth it!

 

It cost 18 euro (last Oct) & is valid for 3 days. It gave us unlimited access to the Metro (very easy to navigate), free admission to 2 sights and a discount to several others during the 3 day window. We used 1 of our free admissions to the Colosseum...there was a separate line for pass holders which allowed us to walk straight to the front of the line, show our pass & go right in.

 

Other sights covered or discounted are: Borghese Gallery, Capitol Hill Museum, all four branches of the Nat'l Museum of Rome, Castel Sant'Angelo, Montemartini Museum, Altar of Peace, Museum of Roman Civilization, Estruscan Museum, Baths of Caracalla, Trajan's Market and some of the Appian Way sights.

[jbuch02]

As promised, after taking in everyone’s useful comments earlier when I first posted a "Monkey on Speed" Rome itinerary, I’ve done some more studying/research and come up with the following 2 ½ day pre-cruise and 1 day post cruise Rome itinerary. Please notice that I tried to implement the concept of savoring rather than chugging Rome:

 

Pre-Cruise:

 

Day 1

 

Arrive 13:00: Transfer to Hotel in Trastevere (Cab)

 

19:00 – 21:00: Twilight guided walking tour Campo dei Fiori, Plazzo Navano and the Pantheon.

 

Day 2

 

10:00- 15:30: Vatican Museum and St. Peters guided walking Tour. Might throw in the Borghese Gallery at 17:00-19:00 depending on how we feel post Vatican.

 

Day 3

 

10:00 – 12:30: Coliseum and Forum guided walking tour.

 

14:00: Depart for Civitavecchia from Hotel in Trastevere (Private Transfer).

 

15:30: Board Ship

 

Post Cruise:

 

Day 4:

 

From Civitavecchia to Hilton Hotel (FCO) by 10:00 (Private Transfer)

 

Train to Bracciano Lake region by 13:00; from there, tour Cerveteri, Ceri, Cento Corvi.

 

19:00: train back to Hilton Hotel (FCO)

 

Day 5:

 

Depart from FCO (Picked the Airport Hilton (pricey) b/c it is attached to the airport and we have an early departure).

 

NOTES: From what I’ve read, the itinerary I put together above is just about right for me and for 3 ½ days for first time visitors to Rome (assumes couples, no kids …. lots of other options for families with children or more seasoned travelers who are returning after previous visits to Rome). The Day 4 trip to Lake Bracciano is still up in the air but this appears to be an attractive site for me with easy access by train from FCO.

 

Rick Steves’ Rome 2008 is an excellent resource for new (and seasoned) visitors to Rome; pick a copy up at your library. After 10 pages, I went on line and bought one. It’s that good and compact so as to be used as a pocket guide of the city; good maps included but travelers can buy more, detailed ones, if needed, at the many Travel Information Kiosks.

 

On Rome/FCO arrival, have planned a taxi stand cab from FCO to our Rome hotel (we’ll have 3 large bags so the train, while easy to access, is out for us). I’ve seen lots of questions about baggage; from my perspective, it would be difficult but not impossible to get from FCO to where I’m staying in Rome (Trastevere) with typical cruise luggage. Probably a matter of personal choice but I don’t want the hassle and my wife and I are not back-pack only travelers! I’ve prearranged private transport to/from FCO-hotels-ship for that reason. Obviously more costly than train, a bit more costly than going to the taxi stand, but better for our needs.

 

While in Rome, as suggested by many others, I discovered there’s no need for car/driver-guide tours. The Steves guide explains exactly how to get around Rome safely and efficiently for even the most reticent traveler who might fear getting around in a foreign city. The book is also nicely set up for you to do your own tours; I chose groups with a guide for which you pay a charge because that’s what’s right for us but each to his own. We'll buy the 3 day Roma Pass - covers local bus/Metro transportation for 3 days and gives you admission to two sites (from a list that covers several places we'll visit).

 

I’ll be using Through Eternity Walking Tours on all three days as this operation seems to fit our interests/timing the best (I found lots of options for walking tours, driving tours or do-it-yourself tours depending on interests, budget and days of the week in Rome). One of the best tips that I see constantly repeated about visiting Rome is to limit what you try to see (people will say, “you’ll come back, guaranteed”) and plan each day so that the visitor is not doing a lot of back-tracking. With limited time and some sites with short hours (the Vatican), back-tracking between sites will burn valuable hours. Some sites are closed on Mondays – which is our day 4, post cruise, including the Odeschalchi Castle at Bracciano Lake. But there are still plenty of sites open on Mondays both inside and outside of Rome.

 

I found it interesting that dining in Rome is quite a bit different than typical American dining or dining in London, Paris or Frankfurt for that matter ..... like sitting at a table incurs an additional fee. Typical morning meal time is until 10:00; afternoon meal ... the largest of the day and meant to take "as long as possible" with typically 4 courses .... is from 13:00 on; evening meals, which are typically lighter, but not always, are served late from 20:00 on. I also learned that the best eateries are usually not adjacent to the most visited tourist sites but rather off the beaten path. I love that sort of thing and am very excited about food and wine exploring and getting a feel for Romans and their culture ... something one cannot reportedly do by dining in resaurants and cafes, close to crowded tourist attractions that cater to American tourists. Great eating tips are contained in the the Steves Rome guide.

 

Comments?

[yldwest]

Bravo!! You've done your homework & I think you've come up with an excellent itinerary!! This is very similar to what we did our 3 pre-cruise days & it is very doable!!

 

We too used the Rick Steves' books- which I think are fantastic & very useful!

 

The maps that I like the best are "MapEasy's Guidemap." LOVE THEM! I have used them in London, Paris, Rome, Florence, Venice & Barcelona & they have never failed me!

 

Something we did that I enjoyed after our Vatican tour was to walk straight out from St Peters square & down Via della Conciliazione to the Ponte S. Angelo bridge (bridge of angels) in front of the Castel S. Angelo. (only about a 5 min walk) The bridge has angels all the way across- each holding a different symbol from the passion of Christ. We then walked along the river to the Ara Pacis. (about 10-15 mins from bridge)

 

Enjoy yourself & have fun!

[lovetodream]

Don't you ever refer to yourself as a "Monkey On Speed." No way! You are a marine, so you are into preparation and planning. There's nothing wrong with that ;)

 

This itinerary seems GREAT and very do-able! I think you'll love walking around Rome, especially with a tour guide who specializes in walking tours. "Through Eternity Walking Tours" sounds GREAT! I'm so glad you found something suitable for you!

 

I'm glad that you found the Rick Steves guides to Rome and Italy. I should have mentioned that I have Rick Steves' "Travel Guide-Europe-Italy's Cities, DVD," which is really great! It contains some great tips about both ancient and other parts of Rome, along with super footage about Florence, Venice, Cinque Terre and a few other spots. I bought a copy for my sister and my intellectually challenged brother-in-law for Christmas and they loved it. My sister told me that it was "very useful for their recent trip."

 

Here's a hyperlink to amazon.com, in case you want to read more about the Steves DVD:

http://www.amazon.com/Rick-Steves-Italys-Cities-2000-2007/dp/B000K7UBOS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1204944660&sr=1-1

 

Just a few other comments about your post, which I hope will be helpful to you:

 

1) I think you're wise to save yourself some wear 'n tear by grabbing a cab from Fiumicino to Trastevere because it is a bit of a grind traveling with any type of luggage by train, etc.

 

DH & I did it a few times...[Fiumicino-to-Termini (by train), Termini-to-Stazione Centrale, Naples (by train), Naples-to-Sorrento (by Circumvesuviana), Sorrento-to-Positano (by car), Positano-to-Amalfi (by ferry)]...it was something else and not easy wth luggage. No, I'm not a backpacker either but I am looking for something in between my 21" and my 29" luggage for our upcoming cruise...WHICH REMINDS ME~~~

 

~~~you mentioned getting to the port-of-Civitavecchia. So, that makes me think that you are going on the SAME CRUISE (or a similar cruise) that DH & I are taking in October...the Grand Mediterranean? Are you? Please tell me so when you return, you can give ME some tips :D

 

2) Although others will strongly disagree, I think the notion of "more is less" rings true with Rome. Believe me...you will be so overwhelmed by the sights, sounds, etc. that you will feel like you ARE seeing it all, even if you only see a little bit. If it is your style of traveling, take your time and soak it all in! It's wonderful!

 

3) I'm sure the "Twilight Tour" WILL include this if possible but if not, try to make it to the Spanish Steps, The Trevi Fountain, etc, also at night. They are very close to the Pantheon and really not to be missed. You've gotta toss a coin over your left shoulder and into the Trevi Fountain, to assure a safe return trip to the Eternal City someday in the future!

 

4) Don't stress out over the dining customs and all in Italy! Yes...what you mentioned in your post is known as "pane e coperto," which roughly translates into "bread and cover." This is separate from a "servizio" or service charge (which is like an American "tip").

 

My BIL made me weary with the "pane e coperto" prior to his visit (with my sis and niece). "Pane e coperto" is a mandatory but nominal fee, that is charged throughout Italy, literally for "setting the table and providing you with napkins, bread and silverware or cutlery." You can't refuse it...it's mandatory and sadly, as I was just reading in "Lonely Planet-Rome" tonight, the cause of much consternation between Americans and Italians. Certainly this will not happen with you 'cause you're such a neat and reasonable guy, I can tell!

 

The fee is NOMINAL...probably no more that 1.50-2.00 euro/pp. Usually, it just applies to places where you "sit down and are served," like ristorantes, trattorias, some enoteca (usually not). Now, because eating is such serious business in Italy, the restaurants are most commonly categorized as follows:

 

1) a tavola colda (hot table)-a really cool and affordable option for meals. Tavola colda are almost what we know as "cafeterias" but MUCH, MUCH better! Food is usually inexpensive, varied, hot and cold with some self-service, some table service. Usually, pane e coperto does NOT apply at this level of dining;

 

2) Rosticceria-self explanatory with varied roasted and cooked meats, etc;

 

3) Pizzerias-OMG...not pizza like we have in the States ( and I lived in NYC for 12 years). This is pizza to die for and a very popular, quick and affordable lunch option (or dinner option) for working Romans. I've included a photo of a pizza that a waiter made for me in Positano on my last day there...the pizza in and around Naples is actually thicker and crustier than the stuff you will find in Rome...it is all so HEALTHY and so good...

 

 

4) Enoteca-specialty shops that mostly serve wines and cheese, antipasti, brucchetta, cold meats, etc. Enoteca are usually only opened at dinnertime and are sometimes called Osteria;

 

5) Trattorias-informal restaurants, that are less formal, less expensive than ristorantes;

 

6) Ristorantes-can be very formal & pricey restaurants.

 

And yes...as you cited from the Rick Steves book, almost ALL of the eating establishments in/around the very tourist-y places will be expensive, have okay tasting food and feel like "any restaurant-USA." The best places are "off the beaten track." You're lucky 'cause some of the BEST places to eat will be right near your hotel in Trastevere!

 

One other thing...almost ALL of the eating establishments have menus posted outside of the restaurant, so you can check the menu and prices beforehand.

 

Whew...I hope I have covered some tips for you. Honestly, you seem like such a great guy and like so many others on this forum, you were wonderful and you did NOT get offended when folks stomped on you about your first plan. So, I have looked out for your update and I want to help as much as possible (although, I am by no means an expert on Italy or Rome).

 

Well, listen...please get back to us on this thread with any/all questions. If I can help in any way, it is my pleasure.

 

And please let me know which Mediterranean cruise you are taking, okay? I've almost forgotten that this website IS about crusing!!!

 

Warmest regards,

Toni Lee Fiore

[lovetodream]

One other thing about the meals in Italy. While it is true that most meals, especially dinners are served in courses-1st is antipasto (can be meats, cheeses, cold fish salads, etc), 2nd is primo piatto (100% of the time, pasta), 3rd is secondo piatto (meat, chicken, veal or fish), 4th is insalati & contorno (yep...salad and veggies are served either WITH or directly AFTER the meat course) e 5th is dolce (dessert), it is okay (although not customary) to refuse the "courses."

 

You can say something like, "Soltanto la prima pasta di corso prego ma una grande parte e grazie," which roughly translates into, "Only the first course of pasta, please, but a large portion and thank you!"

 

And remember...the Italian food you will receive in Italy is not the type of slop that we're accustomed to here in the States (say, at The Olive Garden or Carrabba's...I actually like some of Carrabba's food), nor is it served in the same quantities as those we eat in the States!

 

No...eggplant parmesan does NOT have melted mozzarella cheese all over it (ya' think?), portions of ANY meat, chicken or fish will NOT be 16 ozs or more, most food is NOT deep fried and folks eat LOTS of fresh fish & vegetables! Oh...and gelato...lots and lots of gelato is consumed (similar to the way Americans consume coffee). We have coffee breaks, the Italians have gelato breaks ;) ...Well, not really, but I think you catch my drift!

 

You're going to have lots of fun! As I posted in another thread, the Italians are very warm, friendly, gracious and kind. A little Italian in conversation will make them smile a lot! Most Italians in the tourist-y areas speak some English and those who don't will make every effort to communicate with you without being offended in any way. Most Italians are appreciative of tourists and will go out of their way to help out!

 

Take care,

Ciao!

Toni Lee

[jbuch02]

Thanks, Toni .... I've appreciated your detailed commentary.

 

We're sailing on Celebrity Galaxy departing Civitavecchia on September 12th (10 day Eastern Med). If I'm counting correctly, this will be our 8th Celebrity cruise and 3rd on Galaxy. I'm a big fan of Celebrity's Century class ships ..... and particularly Galaxy. Our first cruise almost 10 years ago was a 10 day Caribbean special on Century, and we did the Panama Canal on Mercury. I've been on both Summit and Constellation but like the intimacy of the smaller ships. Have tried RCL X2 and once on Carnival for a short cruise out of Tampa with my two college aged girls .... I keep coming back to Celebrity. Galaxy's Western Med itinerary is just about perfect for our interests at this point. We're about cruised out on the Caribbean but still love the climate and temperatures there and would go in a heartbeat anytime. Our itinerary includes Messina, Athens, Mykonos, Ephesius, Rhodes, Santorini and Naples (in that order). I'd love to hear about your recommendations in any of these ports too. I'm working on and studying about Naples as we speak.

 

This will be our 10th anniversary celebration trip and we're traveling with another couple we met years ago on a Celebrity cruise, and kept in touch with, who will be celebrating their 20th. Really looking forward to it and I'll post a cruise review and report when I get back. Jeff B.

[lovetodream]

Hey Jeff...well, your cruise certainly sounds wonderful. Nope, I was hoping that by a slim chance we might be on the same cruise but alas, we're not :o

 

You're probably sick of me already :D

 

Can't say I have ever been to Greece, not yet anyhow. My 1st husband's brother lived there for several years and loved every minute of it. He used to tell wonderful stories about Santorini...sounds beautiful.

 

Our 10.01.08 Mediterranean Cruise will be my first time to Sicily (Messina). I really wanted to go to Palermo because I've always wanted to see the Capuchin Catacombs. DH & I looked into driving to Palermo from Messina and back but it's just not do-able in 7 hrs or so.

 

DH & I were initially planning a return trip to Italy for August '08, this time to Tuscany, Florence, Assisi, Umbria, etc and Venice. However, during the planning, the hotel costs in Venice became prohibitive; so friends of ours from Sicily turned us onto the idea of cruising. And the rest is history.

 

Most of the cruises we checked into that called on Palermo were Western Med cruises that didn't cruise to Venice, which I have always dreamt of visiting. DH agreed to try a cruise but said it had to call in Livorno (Florence).

 

I WANTED to do an Eastern Med itinerary that cruised Venice, Greece, Turkey, perhaps Egypt and North Africa but DH had his heart set on going to Florence :rolleyes: DH promises that if we enjoy cruising, our next cruise we will be an Eastern Mediterranean itinerary that includes Turkey and Tunisia!

 

Check this out, Jeff:

 

http://www.sacred-destinations.com/italy/palermo-capuchin-catacombs.htm

 

Also check this out...I think DH & I are gonna grab one of these tours in Rome, post-cruise :eek:

 

http://darkrome.com/

 

 

Take care!

Toni Lee

[tricialee]

Toni Lee, you should try this place in Rome. My 6 year old saw it in a book and we are taking him there next month.

 

http://www3.sympatico.ca/tapholov/pages/bones.html

 

Actually I think it might be in one of those Dark Rome tours from your link.

[agabbymama]

You're going to have lots of fun! As I posted in another thread, the Italians are very warm, friendly, gracious and kind. A little Italian in conversation will make them smile a lot! Most Italians in the tourist-y areas speak some English and those who don't will make every effort to communicate with you without being offended in any way. Most Italians are appreciative of tourists and will go out of their way to help out!

 

Take care,

Ciao!

Toni Lee

 

Toni Lee,

You certainly visited different parts of Italy than my husband and I did in 1998. We didn't realize that we were there only a few months after an American Pilot hit a gondola in Northern Italy killing like 80 people, and not getting much punishment for it, BUT we found most of the Italians to be rude and not speaking English, even in the Tourist Information offices. I had one gentlemen turn his back to me and cross his arms and totally ignore me. We spent 28 days driving through Italy, and this didn't happen just once, but repeatedly at almost every town we went through. Finally in Cefalu Sicily, the owner of the little hotel we stayed at, talked extensively to my husband during our 3 day stay there, explaining what had happened, and why the Italians were so down on the Americans. But to always remember anyone that looks younger than World War II vintage, would speak English as it is mandatory in school since WWII. Most Italians just don't want to show they speak it. Then when we moved on up the Western Coast to the Lake District, at Lake Maggiore, again an older gentlemen fishing on the jetty talked extensively to my husband, how he wished he could move to America, but his Mother didn't want to relocate, and he wouldn't leave her behind, and he again reiterated how angry and upset the Italians were at the Americans for not punishing the American pilot. Other than these two men (who were extremely friendly and helpful), we would classify most Italians as unfriendly and unhelpful.

 

As for the meals, my husband is Italian/Sicilian. My father-in-law was born outside of Benevento Italy (close to Naples), my mother-in-law was born here in the US of parents from Sicily. My husband was looking forward to some great Italian food. We found we could make better ourselves, and at a lot less money. He was really disappointed in the portions, the cost, and the overall eating experience in Italy.

 

And the drivers, what a joke. A 3 lane highway became 6 lanes of cars, and why they even bother having signal lights is beyond me. They run yellow and red lights like they weren't even there. And heaven help you if they are on their little vespas, they cut in and out of traffic like people with a death wish.

 

I am hoping for a better experience for this Med cruise. My girlfriend really wanted to see Italy and Greece, and nothing I could say would dissuade her. I would rather be going to the Baltic countries, but she feels this will be her last trip to Europe and she really wanted to see Italy and Greece.

 

Just my opinion, to give other travelers some info, that all may not be cherry and roses.

 

Happy travels to all.