Reimbursement for missed ports

[Sandra&Ron]

Just got off the Infinity that started in South America, went through Canal, and ended in Florida. Two weeks! It was wonderful to be at sea that long.

 

As many know, they had a problem with the propulsion system and it went into drydock in the Bahamas as soon as we got off. As a result of this problem, we had to miss a port to keep on time, meaning 5 days at sea or only 3 ports (plus Canal) in a 14 day cruise.

 

We were okay with it overall- stuff happens. At least the cruise wasn't cancelled! And we like seadays a lot. Nevertheless, looking back, I do not think they handled the process as well as they could have.

 

Prior to leaving, at first they denied the problem, then a whole variety of different answers came when asked (depending upon who you talked to). It seemed disrespectful for a ship priding itself on service. The only definitive answer came as we were boarding and were handed a form with an explanation on it. Until that point we didn't even know if the cruise would happen at all (though I'm now certain they knew prior that they had to go through the Canal and that we'd miss a port to keep up). Needless to say, this doesn't feel like a company I would trust in the future.

 

In return for the missed port, we were given $150 a cabin in ship credit and a one hour open bar which was nice. However, many on board felt this was not at all sufficient. The chance to see Ecquador and whatever excurions were booked were lost. Of course, they are under no obligation to give us anything but that really isn't the point. The fact that so many passengers were left disappointed is the issue. I do believe they could have handled the mishap better.

[Andym]

I think that you will find that the company are not obliged to give you any sort of a refund. What you have got is a bonus and you should think of it as such.

2 years ago we sailed from Palma in the Med to Tunisia only not to get into port due to high winds. No one on the boat got anything and no one expected anything.

[Moeve]

That happened to us too the last time the Infinity came out of Dry dock due to the change in departure port we also lost a port on top of that. You however got more than our cruise did so take it and look back on a good cruise.

Unfortunatly the fine print says they don´t have to do anything soCelebrity seems to have been very forthcoming.

 

Sorry I know it wasn´t what you were hoping to hear but......

[Traveling Fools]

Sandra and Ron,

 

We were on the Infinity just before you and disembarked the day you boarded. We too missed a port, Port Stanley, Falklands. Additionally, the Captain made subsequently made unannounced navigational changes that significantly shortened cruising time in the Chilean fjords.

 

There were many very unhappy passengers. The Captain opened the bar an hour before dinner on 2 nights and Celebrity gave $150 in on-board credit per cabin. Some passengers thought it was satisfactory, others did not. It is impossible for me to estimate with scientific certainty the percentages of passengers who were satisfied or dissatisfied with what was given, but based on the number of people I spoke with most were dissatisfied.

 

What rankled passengers more than anything was the dishonest way Celebrity handled the entire affair. They knew before departing Buenos Aires there was a problem, yet they waited until late in the afternoon of the second day of the cruise before informing the passengers. Many of us who participated in the pre-cruise Roll Call the evening before the cruise departed and several times while on-board. We know that Celebrity was misrepresenting and at times even lying to passengers on your cruise about the nature and extent of the problem; e.g. “There is no problem†and “There was a problem, but it was repaired and everything is OKâ€. It wasn’t as if a nail gave Infinity a flat tire while on the road, the Captain left port knowingly driving on a flat.

 

The arrogant, patronizing, and condescending attitudes of the Cruise Director and Captain’s Club/Future Sales/Passenger Service Rep just exacerbated passenger ill will.

 

In my opinion, Celebrity’s and Jack Williams’ corporate image and integrity has taken a major blow. Given all the negative things that have gone on in corporate America recently in conjunction with sophisticated level of people considering cruising with Celebrity, the timing of this incident couldn’t have been worse.

 

Who wants to do business with someone who lies to you? Who wants to cruise on a line with a fleet of ships plagued with propulsion problems that regularly force changes in itineraries and outright cancellations? Who wants to cruise with a line that employs and retains senior managers and representatives with superstar egos and who convey an attitude they are doing you a favor? Would you recommend your friends and family do business with a person or company with such attributes?

 

I kept a daily journal during our trip. We were gone 5 plus weeks and just returned home Monday afternoon. Once I catch my breath and sort through all the mail, I will edit and post my review.

 

Infinity--South America--Feb 29,2004

[Guest]

We were on the Grandeurof the Seas in 10/02, trans-canal. The ship went out with 1 engine down, no one was told about this, but it was obvious from the wake of the engines there was a BIG problem. We missed Cost Rica because we ended up staying overnight in Acapulco for them to repair the engine. Missed the shore excursions in most ports that we did get to.

We also were given an onboard credit and open bar for an hour or so every night. After returning home, I found on the CC message boards that this had been a problem since August, the engine was repaired many time prior to sailing, and RCI absolutely knew of the problem when we left port and never advised the passangers. Many of us who met on CC decided to write to RCI. We all got 25% certificates for future cruises. So, I would suggest you write a letter to Celebrity and let them know how unhappy you were and that you would appreciate some sort of monetary compensation.

 

Untile Our Enchantment Cruise

 

Until My Cruise to Hawaii on Infinity

[tbelian]

I'm sure alll kinds of flames will come my way, but, my response is, don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

 

Additionally, would this be much different on any other cruise line? In some cases, perhaps you would receive nothing, or less than what you received in this case.

 

I do think it's regrettable that you missed some things that you were perhaps looking forward to, but, how do you attach a 'value' to it? If someone feels short changed, certainly there is an opportunity to vent here, and give the cruise line a poke in the eye (and, consequently have an influence on some future cruisers). The bottom line is (IMHO) you get what you get, and if you want more, you have to spend the time, energy (and possibly money) to fight it out directly with the cruise line. This is not to say you shouldn't post your concerns in a forum, but, the likelyhood that you personally will gain any additional compensation from that activity is small.

 

In addition, to ask the question:

 

"Who wants to cruise on a line with a fleet of ships plagued with propulsion problems that regularly force changes in itineraries and outright cancellations?"

 

Is quite valid. But these problems have been widely known, and publicized for quite some time. If you still book your trip, then you roll the dice, and take your chances. We are rolling the dice in September, on board Inifinity for Hawaii. Keeping our fingers crossed

[Danno]

I know EXACTLY why it is handled in the manner it is!! If you show ANY weakness or willingness to bend 20% of the affected people will demand the world. No amount of generosity or allowance will make these people happy....so the remaining 80% of people suffer for the 20% who would whine if you gave then 6 free cruises as compensation!!

 

I always find it interesting how the same people who can quote verbatem from the "fine print" of their cruise tickets each and every thing they are entitled to...always overlook the paragraphs devoted to what options the cruise line has to alter scheduals etc...

 

Dan

 

Century X1,Galaxy X2,HorizonX5,VolendamX1,

 

Century Feb/05

[tbkeen]

I think $150 and an open bar is more than adequate compensation. I think visiting port on a cruise is a bonus. The limited time a ship is in port is hardly enough time to really see a city or country. If visiting a location is important to you, then fly there, get a hotel, and spend a few days. I cruise to cruise, not visit.

 

People whine because they didn't learn of some issue sooner, but in reality it makes no difference. All it does for the cruise line is to start the whining sooner.

[marco]

If you paid for a 14 day cruise, and got a 14 day cruise, the only thing (IMHO) that one would be "entitled" to would be the port tax/fee that you had to pay for when you initally paid for the cruise for the port you were not able to stop at.

[ISABELLA]

In 2001, we were on Crown Princess for 12 days European cruise, and during the stay in first port of call - Cannes, the engine that lifts tenders broke. We did not leave till 3A.M., missing Barcelona next day. The very next day we all got a letter with appologies and $150.00p.p. on board credit. So,every cruiseline does differently. Missing ports because of the weather is different story. You can't expect compensation for that.

[smeyer418]

Actually, I have always thought if you miss a port they should return the amount that they didn't have to pay for port charges but then again they have more fuel that is used sailing around. I do think they do sometimes recalculate this and return the difference. That being said most times it isn't that much so a free hour of booze or a shipboard credit of $150.00 is probably much more than the port charges. Port charges(which most lines now call non-commissionable fares) covers more than port charges. It sometimes includes expendables like fuel!

[warmwinds]

My feeling is that if they knew ahead of time that ports were going to be cancelled, and you booked the cruise to see those ports, you should have been given the opportunity to cancel and reschedule. To me it is NOT the same as not making it into a port because of unforeseen weather or circumstances (like what happened to all the Mardi Gras ships this year) - if you know in advance you should give the passengers a chance to make an informed decision. To capture them onto your ship so you don't lose bookings and then tell them when it is too late to do anything about it is wrong.

[Sandra&Ron]

I'm sure some would find this fine compensation, and others not of course. Everyone is different. Personally it was not that big of an issue for us. But my point is its crappy management when you manage to piss off what seems like an lot of people on a cruiseship. What is legal and fineprint isn't the issue (no one is going to court here), but if you lose customers permanently that seems like a bad judgment call to save a few bucks in the shortrun. The whole point of offering any recompense is to avoid mass disappointment and it didn't work from the sounds of it.

 

But I think the much bigger issue isn't the compensation, but rather how it was handled and communicated. That was just poor judgment. What they did seems unnecessary and they gained nothing by being dishonest.

[tbelian]

How many times have I (or you) been an armchair CEO and said 'Well, if it was MY company, I would have done this, or that' ?

 

In this case I'm not the CEO of RCCL, so they didnt ask for my opinion. Chances are, they didn't , and aren't going to ask the disgruntled passengers either. Is this good, or bad? Heck I don't know. Check the price of their stock. It's at the high end of the 52 week cycle. Unfortunately (or fortunately) companies pay more heed to the stockholders.

 

There are a bunch of bean counters and statisticians at these companies that know when to fish or cut bait. (i'm not poking fun at bean counters here, as my DW is one).

[smeyer418]

If you ever wondered what a port charges as a port charge here is NYC

 

 

Dockage Charges Passenger Vessels, Embarking or Debarking Passengers:

 

$1854.00 per day

 

One-half dockage rates will apply for vessels making more than ten calls per calendar year except Saturday and Sunday where the full charge will be assessed.

 

 

All billing will be based on twenty-four (24) hour period or fraction thereof. The period of time for which dockage charges shall be assessed against a vessel shall commence when such vessel is made fast to the pier or dock and continue until such vessel has vacated the berth.

 

Warfage Rates:

Passenger Vessel Charges

 

Voyages of 1 day, per passenger - $3.71

Voyages of 2 days, per passenger - $4.76

Voyages of 3 days, per passenger - $5.41

Voyages of 4 days, per passenger - $6.41

Voyages of 5 days, per passenger - $7.91

Voyages of 6 days, per passenger - $8.66

Voyages of more then 6 days - $9.16

 

per passenger embarked or disembarked

Wharfage Discount: Vessels making more than 28 Home Port calls during a calendar year for voyages of 7 days or longer, qualify upon the 29th call and for all calls thereafter for Wharfage Rate of $7.04 per passenger embark or debark, effective on a calendar year basis.

 

Intransit Passengers - $7.16 per passenger

 

Automobiles loaded or discharged - $15.00 per automobile

 

Fresh Water - $3.85 per 100 cubic feet

 

Proud charter member of the PPS-Passport Pusher Society

 

Mother's Day on the Dawn

smeyer418@yahoo.com

Celebrity, NCL, Overnight Ferry, hydrofoil between countries, car ferries and river cruise and of course the Staten Island Ferry

[Host Walt]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by smeyer418:

If you ever wondered what a port charges as a port charge here is NYC

 

 

Dockage Charges Passenger Vessels, Embarking or Debarking Passengers:

 

$1854.00 per day

 

One-half dockage rates will apply for vessels making more than ten calls per calendar year except Saturday and Sunday where the full charge will be assessed.

 

 

All billing will be based on twenty-four (24) hour period or fraction thereof. The period of time for which dockage charges shall be assessed against a vessel shall commence when such vessel is made fast to the pier or dock and continue until such vessel has vacated the berth.

 

Warfage Rates:

Passenger Vessel Charges

 

Voyages of 1 day, per passenger - $3.71

Voyages of 2 days, per passenger - $4.76

Voyages of 3 days, per passenger - $5.41

Voyages of 4 days, per passenger - $6.41

Voyages of 5 days, per passenger - $7.91

Voyages of 6 days, per passenger - $8.66

Voyages of more then 6 days - $9.16

 

per passenger embarked or disembarked

Wharfage Discount: Vessels making more than 28 Home Port calls during a calendar year for voyages of 7 days or longer, qualify upon the 29th call and for all calls thereafter for Wharfage Rate of $7.04 per passenger embark or debark, effective on a calendar year basis.

 

Intransit Passengers - $7.16 per passenger

 

Automobiles loaded or discharged - $15.00 per automobile

 

Fresh Water - $3.85 per 100 cubic feet

 

Proud charter member of the PPS-Passport Pusher Society

 

Mother's Day on the Dawn

http://escati.linkopp.net/cgi-bin/countdown.cgi?trgb=000000&srgb=00ff00&prgb=111111&cdt=2004;05;09;17;00;00&timezone=GMT-0500

smeyer418@yahoo.com

Celebrity, NCL, Overnight Ferry, hydrofoil between countries, car ferries and river cruise and of course the Staten Island Ferry<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>This list is just port charges and does not include a wide variety of fees and taxes imposed by governmental authorities, many of which are imposed based on the published itinerary regardless of whether the ship actually puts into their jurisdictions.

 

Walt Tuthill

Cruise Board Moderator

 

Contact at Shiptender@aol.com

 

 

[smeyer418]

thanks Walt, I know this wasn't complete. It also doesn't include what the Pilot charges as an example. Do you have other examples that we can look at? You say that some ports charge based upon schedule iternary whether you actually go there or not do you have any idea who does that charge?

 

Proud charter member of the PPS-Passport Pusher Society

 

Mother's Day on the Dawn

smeyer418@yahoo.com

Celebrity, NCL, Overnight Ferry, hydrofoil between countries, car ferries and river cruise and of course the Staten Island Ferry

[Galer99]

Just wondering why people choose to travel by ship when it's clear it's not a floating hotel and therefore subject to the vissitudes of life? Itinerary changes happen. Mishaps happen. If you want to be absolutely sure of what will happen each and every day, stay home.

 

...IMNTBHO

 

life is what happens while you are making other plans.....

John Lennon

 

Gale and George

Oregon

[flagger]

The cruiselines sell itineraries and not just days on the ship. If issues that are the fault of the line and not related to bad weather, acts of god, work stoppage, etc., then it is only good customer service to enumerate the passengers for their inconvenience. Fine print or not, the lengths at which X goes to squeeze every nickel out of their passengers and not return in kind when they have a mechanical issue is nothing short of bad customer service.

 

No one here is asking for a free cruise or even six as one poster put it, but not everyone is aware of the pop propulsion problems. Not everyone reads and follows the news of such.

 

"People don't know there's such a thing as recreational defibrillation" - Walter Becker on NPR

[Guest]

Flagger:

 

I agree that good customer service would dicate taking some action and therefore question your comments that they are squeezing every nickel out of customers. If you research all these cancelled cruises, Celebrities financial arrangements with their customers have actually been quite good. In this particular case, one port was missed and the customers were given a $150.00 credit on their account. Additionally, they gave a free happy hour. I think $150 is pretty darn good for missing a port. Go back and check out the cancelled cruises, most people were extremely happy with the arrangements. Celebrity has actually been pretty good in not nickel and diming customers. RCI has just placed a surcharge on a hamburger joint, Johnny Rockets. Other lines charge for Ice Cream. NCL is now charging for some entertainment. The only surcharge I can think of on Celebrity is for the specialty and alternate restaurants and they have been charged since day one. These restaurants are charged for tipping purposes and also crowd control purposes.

 

Don

 

Don

[Ma Bell]

It seems that they did. If you seriously think it's not fair don't sail with them again. What would you give them if it was your cruiseline?

[raudacruise]

Think in this case, Celebrity should have offered an opt out option. The problems with the pods were well publicized but not until everyone had made thier final payment. Infinity was "damaged goods".

 

But if you decided to take the chance, think the offer for missing a few ports was pretty good.

 

We were actually scheduled for this cruise and cancelled for a variety of reasons.

 

We have also been on other cruises where similiar things have happened unexpectedly. On our very first cruise on Granduer of the Seas the ship hit something coming out of Miami damaging a prop. Missed two ports. Got very similiar compensation as discussed.

 

George & MaryBeth

[Traveling Fools]

Several early responders classified the 3 posters who addressed this issue as whiners. In fact they were not whining only reporting facts and observations.

 

However, following their posts there was a degree of pontificating about how grateful customers should be that their ship completed a 14-day cruise. That kind of naive babble is ludicrous and only encourages mediocrity and continued corporate deceitfulness.

 

Sure the tickets issued by Celebrity contain language and fine print, which on the surface suggests they are free to make changes and are immune from a subsequent legal recourse. How legally binding that language is depends on a courts interpretation of the events leading to any action brought against Celebrity.

 

Continued discussion regarding what constitutes fair compensation serves only to mask the real problem; i.e. Celebrity’s decision to deliberately withhold relative information from passengers about a pre-existing debilitating mechanical condition (not just once but twice), and to be less than honest with many inquiring passengers on the March 14th sailing regarding the existence and scope of Infinity’s mechanical problems.

 

RCCL’s stock may have recently been at a 52 week high, but as moody as the market is that can change very quickly. If I were a stockholder or considering buying RCCL stock I would have second thoughts about investing my money with the company knowing:

 

(1) ½ of Celebrity’s fleet is Millennium class ships (according to the ocean liner expert who lectured on our Infinity cruise, each of them have suffered propulsion problems at least once).

(2) Someone at the highest level in Celebrity made a decision to be deceitful to their passengers regarding this issue.

(3) Rather than the dozen or so of us monitoring these boards and discussing this issue, 6,000 to 8,000 passengers were impacted by this problem in this single incident. Those 6,000 to 8,000 passengers will talk to their friends, families, and travel agents about this incident, exponentially magnifying word about the incident and Celebrity’s problem(s).

 

Infinity--South America--Feb 29,2004

[Ma Bell]

I've had a couple of these experiences as well. Most of the 6-8000 people will not have any complaints at all. When you talk to your friends, family and travel agent, where will you suggest they spend their cruise dollar? For my money Celebrity will still be on the top of my list regardless of the ocassional problem.

 

Whenever there have been problems it seems there has been fair compensation to the customer. As far as being deceitful, the changes to itineraries and pod problems have been all over their website and others.

 

If you feel this way you should definitely go elsewhere...the question is where. Are you suggesting that the passengers are angry enough to try to put Celebrity out of business? What would that accomplish, except to remove one of the best mid-price cruising experiences around. Was this situation really that egregious?

 

What would make you happy? Anything? Did you enjoy your cruise or was the loss of one port enough to ruin it for you? You have to decide if this was truly unfair. If it was to you you need to take your business elsewhere.

[Traveling Fools]

Yes, people were very angry. Many were angrier about being lied to by Celebrity than missing the port.

 

No, I am no suggesting they will try to put Celebrity out of business. However, Celebrity’s image will suffer because of the 1) deceitful way in which they handled the situation and 2) continuing propulsion problems with their Millennium class ships.

 

Was my cruise ruined? No. There were things I like and enjoyed about the cruise and things I didn’t. Did I leave the ship convinced Celebrity is the “Premium†line Jack Williams claims it is, No I did not.

 

Will I do business with Celebrity again? Don’t know. Not only do I question Celebrity’s corporate integrity, I don’t think Celebrity’s product is as good as others are convinced it is.

 

Infinity--South America--Feb 29,2004