Process for flying home early without a Passport?

[Don Pedro]

But after 06/09 you won't get out of the US because they know you wouldn't be allowed back in - correct? Doesn't that make this debate moot?

 

OK We'll try again. The central point of this discusssion is that buried in the same document that established the 06/09 implementation date, the US government created a permanent passport exemption for US citizens taking cruises that begin and return to the same US port.

 

Unless they change the law again, 06/09 will come and go and cruise ships passengers will still not need a passport to sail to the Caribbean and Mexico.

[tinlizzy]

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cbpmc/cbpmc_2223.html

 

Is this what you are talking about? Otherwise post a link to the exemption por favor!

 

So this is about a charter plane home in a medical emergency? Otherwise your best bet for treatment in an US hospital via public air transportation is to make damn sure you have a passport and not breathe a word of any ailment to the airlines when you check-in.

 

I honestly don't think that anyone would care if a person died in a foreign country and an airline certainly wouldn't feel obligated to transport you home under what could be a fatal medical condition.

[TPKeller]

Most of us agree that it is wise to have a passport. Also, we are not aware of a passport exception for children. Is that something new that we have missed?

By the way, Section VI.B of the same document covers children. It's rather long, so I don't want to quote it here, but it's on pages 91-94 of the WHTI final rules.

 

Theron

[nrdsb4]

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cbpmc/cbpmc_2223.html

 

Is this what you are talking about? Otherwise post a link to the exemption por favor!

 

So this is about a charter plane home in a medical emergency? Otherwise your best bet for treatment in an US hospital via public air transportation is to make damn sure you have a passport and not breathe a word of any ailment to the airlines when you check-in.

 

I honestly don't think that anyone would care if a person died in a foreign country and an airline certainly wouldn't feel obligated to transport you home under what could be a fatal medical condition.

 

 

Most people are referring to something along these lines:

 

I'm on a cruise and my mother or father dies. Or gets deathly ill, or one of my children staying with grandparents gets very sick. It's an emergency, I need to get home! I didn't have a passport to get on the cruise ship because by law I didn't need it (therefore NO ONE asked me for it before embarkation). Now I need to fly home quickly, but I don't have a passport. So how does this work?

 

That's the question at hand.

[tinlizzy]

Most people are referring to something along these lines:

 

I'm on a cruise and my mother or father dies. Or gets deathly ill, or one of my children staying with grandparents gets very sick. It's an emergency, I need to get home! I didn't have a passport to get on the cruise ship because by law I didn't need it (therefore NO ONE asked me for it before embarkation). Now I need to fly home quickly, but I don't have a passport. So how does this work?

 

That's the question at hand.

 

Sorry - had to go pick out a prom tux w/ DS.

 

Then I think the waiver is for you but unless it is spelled out you could get some knothead bureaucrat or airline employee who doesn't think your emergency qualifies as an emergency and you have no recourse other than to make a plea to the nearest US Embassy or call your congressman at home in which case you are wasting precious time.

 

How does it work would be a question someone should put forth in an e-mail to the cruise line but my guess is you would be on your own when you hit the dock

[tinlizzy]

Seems this was answered and overlooked in the other thread http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=13986945&postcount=36

 

"They were told the American consolate would assist anyone that needed emergency transfer back to the US that did not have a passport (lost or otherwise). "

[Terpnut]

I think the difference is that I'm trying to see a hole, and you're trying not to! ;)

 

Theron

Theron, I think you hit the nail (or is it Calvin?) on the head here. I think 2BFree and I basically see this as a very very small hole in the regulations. We think it's a hole so small that it's basically irrelevant and even dangerous as it only makes the general public think they might not actually need a passport. You, on the other hand, are saying this "hole" might provide a reasonable backdoor entry home if it should ever be needed, and are seeking information so that we can all determine if this "hole" is big enough to be useful. Your request and desire to get more information is good. I think however that most of this thread is just back and forth speculation until the government spells out specific and detailed guidelines on the "hole" or waiver. And FWIW, I don't the latter exists. :)

[nrdsb4]

Sorry - had to go pick out a prom tux w/ DS.

 

Then I think the waiver is for you but unless it is spelled out you could get some knothead bureaucrat or airline employee who doesn't think your emergency qualifies as an emergency and you have no recourse other than to make a plea to the nearest US Embassy or call your congressman at home in which case you are wasting precious time.

 

How does it work would be a question someone should put forth in an e-mail to the cruise line but my guess is you would be on your own when you hit the dock

 

 

Well, I wouldn't be as I've had a passport since 1985! I'm good to go.:)

 

I think anyone who needs to get home in an emergency will get home. I'm not convinced there will be "no problem" as someone suggested on one of these many threads. I agree with you that precious time might well be wasted as beauocratic red tape is attended to. Especially if the need for quick re-entry to the US comes up in the middle of the night or on a weekend or whatever. But that's a risk we all have to decide we're willing or unwilling to take. I can see both sides.

[TPKeller]

Seems this was answered and overlooked in the other thread http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=13986945&postcount=36

 

"They were told the American consolate would assist anyone that needed emergency transfer back to the US that did not have a passport (lost or otherwise). "

I read the post, and I would say that is probably the closest we have come to an answer, but it doesn't quite fill the bill completely. The person in that post lost their passport (but had a copy available), and since it was not a first hand report, they didn't provide the procedure they had to go through. And even if they had, we wouldn't know if it was different in that case (since they had lost their passport, as opposed to traveling without one.)

 

But it's closer than anything I've seen so far. :)

 

Theron

[TPKeller]

Theron, I think you hit the nail (or is it Calvin?) on the head here. I think 2BFree and I basically see this as a very very small hole in the regulations. We think it's a hole so small that it's basically irrelevant and even dangerous as it only makes the general public think they might not actually need a passport. You, on the other hand, are saying this "hole" might provide a reasonable backdoor entry home if it should ever be needed, and are seeking information so that we can all determine if this "hole" is big enough to be useful. Your request and desire to get more information is good. I think however that most of this thread is just back and forth speculation until the government spells out specific and detailed guidelines on the "hole" or waiver. And FWIW, I don't the latter exists. :)

Ah... well, that's not an uncharitable estimate of my motive, but it isn't entirely accurate either. :)

 

I'm not really looking for a back door, as I've stated before, I'm just trying to find the last piece of the puzzle that the government started when they finalized the cruise exemption.

 

Some folks who are legally traveling without passports will eventually have an emergency need to fly home mid-cruise. This is a certainty, and the government will need to accommodate it. They didn't publish details for this last piece of the puzzle, so that is what I am looking for here.

 

I simply got tired of reading scare tactics used to bully people into buying a passport, when it is not legally required of them. The merits of a passport stand on their own. Everyone deserves the chance to make up their mind based on facts, not FUD.

 

I'm just trying to dispel a little FUD. :)

 

Theron

[tinlizzy]

Well, I *snip

 

I know these are hypotheticals. "You", I'm afraid is a midwest colloquialism (or it could just be me) meaning everyone.

 

I thought of the weekend/after 5 scenario, too. The port agent or harbor master would assist someone in so far as getting to the airport or consulate or informing the cruisers of this loophole but I don't think the hand holding would go much farther than that.

[tbear2762]

In My opinion, I hope they make you wait and make the process difficult and long. (you is being used as a euphemism for anyone)

 

In this day, a passport while not technically required in every port of call etc, it is your only sure way to get what you want as quickly as possible.

 

Get with it, pay the fees and get over it, it'll make your life easier.

 

I agree with you but unfortunately tightwads will be tightwads.

[tinlizzy]

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=13977576&postcount=25

 

Joining this thread may yield you more information Theron.

[Wasubi03]

Wow, this thread is crazy! It is weird to find out that such a simple question is so hard to answer.......I wonder what would happen if you never had a passport and just a Birth cert and driver license and you are stuck in some foreign Caribbean land?

[TahoeBob]

If you can't fly to Aruba without a passport why do you think you should be able to continue to sail there without one?

 

 

 

I will answer your question with out any flames.

 

The reason I think I should be able to sail on a cruise to Aruba with out a passport is because the US government and the government of Aruba says I do not need a passport to go there on a cruise ship!

[Moeve]

The airlines have their rules - NO PAX WITHOUT PASSPORT period!!! They are sure as hell not going to second guess what some immigration officer at the US border is going to deem an emergancy or not. They are not going to risk the consequences of transporting you back to the US only to have some Immigration officer deem your reason as not qualifying. Don't tell me that things like this do not happen - just look at the number of strange & totally mind bending decisions that are made at US airports daily.

[donaldsc]

IMHO, if one is out of country w/o a passport because one is too subborn to get one, the individual should NEVER be allowed back into the country. Essentially, if one makes a choice of several possible actions, one should suffer the consequences of the choice.

 

DON

[Don Pedro]

The airlines have their rules - NO PAX WITHOUT PASSPORT period!!! They are sure as hell not going to second guess what some immigration officer at the US border is going to deem an emergancy or not. They are not going to risk the consequences of transporting you back to the US only to have some Immigration officer deem your reason as not qualifying. Don't tell me that things like this do not happen - just look at the number of strange & totally mind bending decisions that are made at US airports daily.

 

 

We are frequent travelers and have had passports for several decades. You will get no argument from us about the need for passports. We believe that opting against passports is probably "Penny wise and pound foolish".

 

Nevertheless, the government has created an exemption for cruise ship passengers and we also wonder if they have pre-determined mechanism to deal with stranded cruise ship passngers.

 

We agree that the airlines have their NO PAX WITHOUT PASSPORTS rule. But, the airlines will do what the government tells them to do. This can be witnessed by all the recent maintenance grounding. The government was probably why the airlines created their rule in the first place. Plus there are exceptions to almost every rule.

 

We understand why the airlines would not want to face stiff fines or be stuck with a cruise ship passenger who faced a potentially delayed reentry process.

 

However, in this day of modern technology, with e-mails and fax machines and many other instant transmission devices we would think other solutions would be available.

 

Remember, the stranded passenger had provided proof of citizenship before boarding the cruise ship. Immigration authorities have the cruise ship manifest in their data base that contains the passengers name. Plus the Immigration authorities have been probably been notified of the passengers current status by the cruise line.

 

If the data base checks out, US Immigration could give the airlines approval to transport the passenger to the US without a passport. Then the government should charge the returned passenger a $1000 processing fee. We don't want any US citizen stuck in a foreign land because events were unkind to them - but they shouldn't get a free pass either.

[tinlizzy]

Don Pedro or Theron

 

FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT:

Department of Homeland Security: Colleen Manaher, WHTI, Office of Field

Operations, U.S. Customs and Border Protection, 1300 Pennsylvania

Avenue, NW., Room 5.4-D, Washington, DC 20229, telephone number (202)

344-1220.

Department of State: Consuelo Pachon, Office of Passport Policy,

Planning and Advisory Services, Bureau of Consular Affairs, telephone

number (202) 663-2662.

 

 

Did anyone call and ask?

[nrdsb4]

The airlines have their rules - NO PAX WITHOUT PASSPORT period!!! They are sure as hell not going to second guess what some immigration officer at the US border is going to deem an emergancy or not. They are not going to risk the consequences of transporting you back to the US only to have some Immigration officer deem your reason as not qualifying. Don't tell me that things like this do not happen - just look at the number of strange & totally mind bending decisions that are made at US airports daily.

 

That's true ONLY IF the passenger is flying out of the country. If the passenger is flying to Miami or Ft. Lauderdale or any other US city with plans to get on a cruise ship which will travel to foreign lands, the airlines WILL NOT require them to show their passport before boarding the airplane.

[Moeve]

That's true ONLY IF the passenger is flying out of the country. If the passenger is flying to Miami or Ft. Lauderdale or any other US city with plans to get on a cruise ship which will travel to foreign lands, the airlines WILL NOT require them to show their passport before boarding the airplane.

 

 

That is not what we are talking about - we ARE talking about cruise passengers who board their ship (in Fort Lauderdale, Miami etc.) on BC and DL but have some sort of emergancy enroute in the Caribbean and want to FLY HOME for the one of the islands. This is currently a problem because airlines have been handed down a ruling from the DHS to only transport passengers holding passport - period!

[cherylandtk]

Did anyone call and ask?

I have; although not to the numbers you posted, but I did call and speak to American Citizen Services at the State Dept. Those are the folks you call if you have an emergency while travelling overseas.

 

From there I contacted two different consular agents in the Caribbean as well as an air ambulance service. I am still waiting for responses from the latter three, but I can tell you so far, from speaking to ACS at State, that there are different types of emergencies and thus are differently handled.

 

ACS did state that if one wants to fly home commercial, say if you miss the ship in port, or if you have a crisis at home, then you must have a passport. Period. If you are travelling on a cruise with just a BC/DL, then you contact the port agent, who contacts the local consular agent, who assists you in getting the passport. No answer yet on how long or how costly.

 

Sidebar--There is a consular agent in most Caribbean ports, or nearby, but they are not open 24/7. Consular agents and their contact information are found on the State Dept. website, but anyone who prepares that thoroughly for a cruise most likely already has a passport, too. JMO. Embassies are available 24/7, but for example, the Embassy for Grand Caymen is located in Kingston, Jamaica. The Grand Caymen consular agent is only open MWF from 8-2. Depending on where you are and how far into your cruise, it may actually be faster to stay on the ship instead of trying to fly home from a port.

 

In cases of medical emergency using an air ambulance, ACS told me there are different rules that apply. I still do not have enough information as to how the rules differ, but will let you know when I do.

 

I have only one anecdotal story that partially contributes to this thread. Friends rented an oceangoing sailboat in Puerto Rico, sailed to Aruba and were robbed of their passports. Were unable to leave Aruba until passports were replaced by consulate. Took days, not hours, but not as long as a week. Happened before 9/11, so different rules may have been in place, but one key factor was that there was no life-or-death aspect to their emergency. As with Free2Be's sister's situation. Don't want to put too much conjecture into this thread, but it seems to me that medical status will have some bearing on what counts as a humanitarian waiver and what does not.

[TPKeller]

Don Pedro or Theron

 

FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT:

Department of Homeland Security: Colleen Manaher, WHTI, Office of Field

Operations, U.S. Customs and Border Protection, 1300 Pennsylvania

Avenue, NW., Room 5.4-D, Washington, DC 20229, telephone number (202)

344-1220.

Department of State: Consuelo Pachon, Office of Passport Policy,

Planning and Advisory Services, Bureau of Consular Affairs, telephone

number (202) 663-2662.

 

 

Did anyone call and ask?

Well, I wasn't eager to do it, but it's starting to look like it may be the only way we're going to get the final answer... so I just mailed off letters to both of these individuals asking for clarification, and permission to share the answer with fellow cruisers. I wouldn't expect anything back sooner than a week or two though, if then.

 

Theron

[nrdsb4]

That is not what we are talking about - we ARE talking about cruise passengers who board their ship (in Fort Lauderdale, Miami etc.) on BC and DL but have some sort of emergancy enroute in the Caribbean and want to FLY HOME for the one of the islands. This is currently a problem because airlines have been handed down a ruling from the DHS to only transport passengers holding passport - period!

 

I misread your post. I thought you were saying that the airlines would refuse anyone without a passport who is flying en route to their cruise. Now I see you are talking return flight of a cruise passenger who is in another country trying to get home.

 

We are probably all making this more complicated than it is. No US citizen is going to be permanently banned from flying back home. They are going to get permission to go home once their citizenship is established, it's only a question of how long this will take. Since the gov't has excused cruise passengers from the obligation of having a passport, I find it highly unlikely that they would make it too horribly difficult to get home in extreme circumstances, particularly ones that involve emergencies back home vs. people who have missed their ship in port due to irresponsibility.

[nrdsb4]

I have; although not to the numbers you posted, but I did call and speak to American Citizen Services at the State Dept. Those are the folks you call if you have an emergency while travelling overseas.

 

From there I contacted two different consular agents in the Caribbean as well as an air ambulance service. I am still waiting for responses from the latter three, but I can tell you so far, from speaking to ACS at State, that there are different types of emergencies and thus are differently handled.

 

ACS did state that if one wants to fly home commercial, say if you miss the ship in port, or if you have a crisis at home, then you must have a passport. Period. If you are travelling on a cruise with just a BC/DL, then you contact the port agent, who contacts the local consular agent, who assists you in getting the passport. No answer yet on how long or how costly.

 

Sidebar--There is a consular agent in most Caribbean ports, or nearby, but they are not open 24/7. Consular agents and their contact information are found on the State Dept. website, but anyone who prepares that thoroughly for a cruise most likely already has a passport, too. JMO. Embassies are available 24/7, but for example, the Embassy for Grand Caymen is located in Kingston, Jamaica. The Grand Caymen consular agent is only open MWF from 8-2. Depending on where you are and how far into your cruise, it may actually be faster to stay on the ship instead of trying to fly home from a port.

 

In cases of medical emergency using an air ambulance, ACS told me there are different rules that apply. I still do not have enough information as to how the rules differ, but will let you know when I do.

 

I have only one anecdotal story that partially contributes to this thread. Friends rented an oceangoing sailboat in Puerto Rico, sailed to Aruba and were robbed of their passports. Were unable to leave Aruba until passports were replaced by consulate. Took days, not hours, but not as long as a week. Happened before 9/11, so different rules may have been in place, but one key factor was that there was no life-or-death aspect to their emergency. As with Free2Be's sister's situation. Don't want to put too much conjecture into this thread, but it seems to me that medical status will have some bearing on what counts as a humanitarian waiver and what does not.

 

 

I don't know about that. There are people on this very site who plan every detail, even up to finding out if the cruise line carries their favorite brand of ketchup. Some of these people refuse to get a passport because they do not ever plan to leave the country except by cruise, and the gov't has told them that they do not have to get a passport to do so. Others also add that the extra expense of buying passports for the whole family is too high, especially for those families who are absolutely sure they never plan to leave the country "EVER" unless by cruise.

 

To those of us who have passports, it seems unfathomable why one would travel outside of the US without one, but there are many people who will not buy what is not required. And personally, I feel that if the US gov't is going to bend to the cruise lobby, backpeddle, and tell its citizens they don't need to have a passport to cruise, then they should not penalize those same US citizens by making it impossible to get home from a cruise in the event of a true emergency.JMO.