Another Eurodam Sailing Cancelled

[kryos]

If I had known that HAL is notorious for booking so many charters and cancelling ordinary booked passengers, I never would have reserved my 1/03/09 Eurodam cruise so far in advance. I was choosing between two ships for that time frame - Celebrity's Solstice and the Eurodam. I finally picked the Eurodam because I have never cruised on a HAL ship and heard they are so wonderful. I've really been looking forward to the Eurodam experience so hope it will be a reality.

Cindy

I always say, if you want to maximize your chance of sailing, book something at the VERY LEAST ten days or more in length. Two weeks would even be better. Those sailings very rarely get chartered because chartering companies will generally steer clear of them. They are very, very hard to sell. First of all, two weeks is too long a time for a lot of people to get away (assuming the chartering company would be marketing to working class/age people), and the price on a two week or longer sailing would be much higher and would thus knock a lot of potential customers for the chartering company out of the running.

 

It's the seven-day or shorter cruises that are prime targets for chartering. In fact, I would imagine in actuality that HAL probably sees no more charters than other lines do because those other lines run a lot of three and four-dayers, whereas HAL does not. I would imagine those "shorty" cruises are the ones that really get chartered left and right. The chartering company can keep the cost down and thus have a very good chance of selling out all of the cabins, and most people, regardless of their station in life (working folks, families, etc.) can afford a short three-day cruise.

 

But for us HAL lovers, I say stay away from the seven-day or shorter cruises and you should be reasonably safe from the chartering companies.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[hammybee]

This simply happens when the chartering company cannot sell out the ship and instead sails on the cruise, but only as a large group ... not as a full ship charter.

 

So, while it is probably rare, especially for groups like Olivia and RSVP, charters can turn into groups ... and it happens when the potential chartering company simply can't sell enough cabins to fill the ship and thus make a full ship charter financially feasible.

 

Blue skies ...--rita

 

I am aware of groups that turned into charters but not charters turning into groups. This is not saying it's never happened - rather I have not heard of it on any of these CC boards.

 

People who book into the charters do so to meet like-minded people and for the big name entertainment not remotely possible on a routine cruise.

[hammybee]

 

I would imagine those "shorty" cruises are the ones that really get chartered left and right. The chartering company can keep the cost down and thus have a very good chance of selling out all of the cabins, and most people, regardless of their station in life (working folks, families, etc.) can afford a short three-day cruise.

 

Blue skies ...--rita

 

Actually, the cruise lines with short cruises have no problems filling the ships with people looking for a drive to party cruise.

 

To fill a ship with 2000 passengers, it needs to be marketed in the U.S. , Canada and Europe. I don't think traditional families and the so-called " working stiffs" are the primary target audiance for a jazz or blues or a clothing optional charter.

[hammybee]

 

I really can't believe that some consumer protection agency has not gotten on the cruise lines long ago about this. To sell someone a cruise, but to also sell that cruise to a chartering company who has very definite ideas about what they plan on doing with it, is very unfair.

Blue skies ...--rita

 

My best guess is that about 3% of all HAL 7 days sails become chartered sails. Most charters happen ten or more months into the future, an eternity as it relates to bookings for a 7 day cruise.

 

No way to tell how many passengers are impacted when a sailing becomes chartered ten or more months into the future. Given that 7 day sails rarely sell out before final payment date, I suspect we are not taking about a huge number of bookings, here.

 

The cruise contract makes it clear that the cruise line can cancel a cruise at any time, for any reason.

 

The cruise contract also makes it clear the consumer may cancel at any time, for any reason, up to and including final payment date. And when consumers do this, the cruise line may incur a lost opportunity cost. That cabin could have been sold to someone else at a potentially higher fare, had not the consumer tied up the inventory, sometimes with as little as $100 deposit.

 

It appears that about 3% of all HAL 7 days sails become chartered cruises. Shall we guess what percentage of consumer bookings get cancelled on or before final payment date?

 

How many times does the average cabin get sold and resold to fickle consumers, before it is finally occupied?

 

If down the road, gas hits $5 a gallon, as some predict, want to venture a guess how many bookings will be cancelled by consumers?

[Boytjie]

Right ... I understand that. But many chartering companies won't take the plunge until they have a reasonable expectation of selling the ship, so they take an OPTION to charter. That really sucks because if they don't charter, they still usually wind up with a pretty big group on the sailing, and thus the influence to turn a publicly-sold sailing into a customized one for their group. And that, my friend, is grossly unfair.

 

Nothing against Olivia, RSVP, Christian organizations, Spring Break crowds ... whatever ... but if I wanted a cruise where the whole onboard ambience revolved around the theme, I WOULD have booked with the charter company on a sailing solely and exclusively dedicated to that. But if I book a public sailing, then I have a right to expect the normal ammenities I would come to expect on any HAL sailing.

 

When large groups take over the ship, but the sailing remains open to the general public too, that's when there are problems ... and as far as I'm concerned, there should be very definite limits on what a large group can do on a publicly-sold sailing. After all, the non-group passengers onboard that week have rights too ... and the cruise line should keep those rights in mind.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

 

Well, I don't know if charters-gone-flat become group cruises.

 

Your beef seems to be mainly with groups. No-one accidentally ends up on a charter, you have to book through the charter, not HAL

[Boytjie]

So, while it is probably rare, especially for groups like Olivia and RSVP, charters can turn into groups ... and it happens when the potential chartering company simply can't sell enough cabins to fill the ship and thus make a full ship charter financially feasible.

 

I have never heard of an Olivia, Atlantis, RSVP or R Family group cruise. They do charters.

[Northshorecruisers]

When our cruise was chartered by Olivia, we could have continued to take the cruise but needed to book through Olivia at their prices.

It was a Women in Sports cruise and Billie Jean King was going to be on board and rumor was that Melissa Etheridge would be one of the entertainers. I think it would have been a great cruise but the prices were way out of my price range.

[RevNeal]

I would imagine HAL sees more of this sort of thing because of the size of their ships. Let's face it, it's a heck of a lot easier to sell out a 1,200 passenger vessel for a charter than it is a 3,000 passenger ship. Since HAL has a lot of smaller ships, I think you probably see more charters on HAL ships than others. But, then again ... that wouldn't explain the Eurodam being chartered. That's a big ship ... and other lines have ships at about the same size.

 

Precisely correct. It's the Vistas (and now the Signature) that are being chartered more than any other ship of the Line. :) So ... Maybe the passenger-point of about 2000 is a good zone to shoot for in a Charter? Could be.

 

I've recently heard that the Noordam costs $2.8 million to charter for 7-days. YIKES! At 2000 passengers that's an average of $1400 per passenger. :)

[hammybee]

 

I've recently heard that the Noordam costs $2.8 million to charter for 7-days. YIKES! At 2000 passengers that's an average of $1400 per passenger. :)

 

I wonder how alcohol revenue is handled. By this I mean, is there a split with the organizer, or not. I guess anything is negotiable.

 

The crew that I have spoken with about charters generally love them because it breaks the monotony of 7 day sails, the entertainment is great, passengers board for the total experience and tend to spend. I inferred this to mean tips were better. This makes sense given the passenger base is probably more likely to be well travelled and ready for a good time, regardless of venue.

[jhannah]

I wonder how alcohol revenue is handled.

I would guess the figure revneal noted would be greater if the charter specified that the bars and/or casino be closed during the sailing. Some groups do that.

[hammybee]

I would guess the figure revneal noted would be greater if the charter specified that the bars and/or casino be closed during the sailing. Some groups do that.

 

Most charters however, probably keep the bars open and staffed 24/7, because some of the parties never end and then it's another day and Mimosas for B-fast.

[jhannah]

Oh, no doubt. But some religious-oriented charters do have these venues closed.

[sail7seas]

Do you think such groups are paying a higher fare per person to accomodate the lack of liquor sales? ;)

[hammybee]

Premier Productions is, I think, one of the larger promoters of Christian cruises. They use Carnival. Most of their sails are large groups, although they appear to have chartered the Destiny for January, 2009. That's about 3500 passengers.

[Oslo Dutch]

Most charters however, probably keep the bars open and staffed 24/7, because some of the parties never end and then it's another day and Mimosas for B-fast.

 

Well, on the Eurodam RSVP gay charter it will be lot livelier than usual.

When I was on the Zuiderdam initially bars had big trouble coping with drink orders. Later during the they seem to get the hang of it. Late night parties were on the aft deck and extra bars were set up.

 

However RSVP is a little more quiet than Atlantis where they do go on til way after dawn

 

This is probably on of the main reasons they charter out the ship. First of all they can charge premium fares and the bar on board revenue is huge.

 

And it's real good fun too :D (if you are into it)

[jhannah]

Do you think such groups are paying a higher fare per person to accomodate the lack of liquor sales? ;)

Yes, I do. That is revenue built into the ship's operational margin. If a group asks that to be taken away, I would think the ship would have to make up the difference in the overall price of the charter.

[Boytjie]

Precisely correct. It's the Vistas (and now the Signature) that are being chartered more than any other ship of the Line. :) So ... Maybe the passenger-point of about 2000 is a good zone to shoot for in a Charter? Could be.

 

I've recently heard that the Noordam costs $2.8 million to charter for 7-days. YIKES! At 2000 passengers that's an average of $1400 per passenger. :)

 

The RSVP charter to Alaska was on the Amsterdam last September.

[Boytjie]

Most charters however, probably keep the bars open and staffed 24/7, because some of the parties never end and then it's another day and Mimosas for B-fast.

 

The bars aren't open 24/7 on RSVP charters and from what I have heard from staff, RSVP charters would be good cnadidates! as one waiter told me on the Caribbean Princess when asked how he was experiencing the cruise: I have never worked this hard in my life... you guys can drink! But we are making a lot of money".

 

That said, RSVP cruises are not one big drunken stupor. :)

[azkcruizers]

I had booked five cabins on the January 31 sailing of the Eurodam when I noticed Sapphire talking about the date disappearing. I was offered another sailing date at the same price, which ended up being $1000 more. Each cabin vf was also given $200 on board credit. We have booked Feb. 7. The only problem was we purposely booked early to get our five balconies in a row and I was told they weren't available on the 7th together. I did some research and found 6 VD cabins in a row but they told my TA they weren't, but when I got upset and called she told me they were being held for emergency purposes. After some discussion a supervisor said I could take them. It then took four TA phone calls to HAL to send her the faxes she needed. So my party of 15 is hoping that the 7th doesn't end up chartered too. I have cruised before but never with HAL.

[azkcruizers]

I'm sorry I just stuck my post in the middle of your conversation. I've been reading for almost a year but never have posted before. When I tried to previously it wouldn't work for me so I just rejoined with a new name. I was paying more attention to the title of the thread instead of the last posts.

[hammybee]

The bars aren't open 24/7 on RSVP charters and from what I have heard from staff, RSVP charters would be good cnadidates! as one waiter told me on the Caribbean Princess when asked how he was experiencing the cruise: I have never worked this hard in my life... you guys can drink! But we are making a lot of money".

 

That said, RSVP cruises are not one big drunken stupor. :)

 

Never suggested they were. I was referring to the other one. ;)

[hammybee]

dupe

[NoNoNanette]

dupe

 

And just who was THAT directed to? Who you callin' a "dupe"? ;)

[Sailor Gal]

I feel sorry for the poster who has been the object of cancelled cruises twice. I would be done with HAL! We booked HAL for the first time and then read various postings about cancellations. Don't shoot me - it's only my opinion....but this has never been such an issue with other cruise lines. We'll hopefully enjoy our Nov. 1 cruise on HAL but probably won't risk booking again due to the cancellations. We are working folks with only a certain week allotted for vacation. HAL is probably not the best choice for us as we are not retired and can't just adjust to another cruise on a whim. I think this is a terrible practice.:(

[Boytjie]

And just who was THAT directed to? Who you callin' a "dupe"? ;)

 

Who else? :D