Shareholder OBC Discontinued?

[6246994]

This is the information I was given from Renato Reis, the Loyalty Ambassador on the Radiance last week. I went to book my 2009 cruise while on board and asked him about the recent changes to the combinability of the different credits/discounts beginning January 1st. He advised me it wasn't a matter of shareholder OBC not being combinable anymore, but rather the shareholder OBC would be eliminated altogether beginning January 1st.

This didn't sound right, so I asked again the day before the cruise ended. He told me the same thing, but did say that any bookings made before year end would be granted the shareholder credit so long as the request was submitted to the shareholder benefits department also before year end.

Has anyone else heard this?

[I Love RCI]

I hope not! I just booked a cruise today and confirmed the fax number to submit it to -- I'll send it in next week to be safe. My DH will kill me if they discontinue this, esp as the stock price has dropped so much since we bought and I did it for the credit (I know this is not a sound investment strategy but I believe in the company too).

[critterchick]

According to several threads here, the shareholder OBC will not be eliminated, but you will no longer be able to combine it with other OBC offers, such as the credit you get for booking a cruise or buying a NextCruise certificate while onboard.

 

To me, that means that there's no point in booking while onboard any more. The shareholder credit (which is renewed in May, by the way) is greater than or equal to the OBC.

[Snoozeman]

This is the information I was given from Renato Reis, the Loyalty Ambassador on the Radiance last week. I went to book my 2009 cruise while on board and asked him about the recent changes to the combinability of the different credits/discounts beginning January 1st. He advised me it wasn't a matter of shareholder OBC not being combinable anymore, but rather the shareholder OBC would be eliminated altogether beginning January 1st.

 

This didn't sound right, so I asked again the day before the cruise ended. He told me the same thing, but did say that any bookings made before year end would be granted the shareholder credit so long as the request was submitted to the shareholder benefits department also before year end.

 

Has anyone else heard this?

 

Have not heard this. I don't think they can do away with it as it was authorized by board of directors. They can choose to change it at their NEXT meeting if they wish.

[Driftwoodgal]

We won't be booking on board anymore, and probably will now use a TA on our bookings. I have used a TA twice in all of our cruises. Really wasn't happy either time. The first time was with an online TA that wouldn't take a coupon. The second time the TA didn't do anything more than the cruise line. I have booked directly with RCI ever since. They will no longer combine the diamond balcony discount with another credit. Since I will now be limited to one credit I will try to find a TA that will buy my travel insurance or help pay for something on the ship. My stock in RCI is down just as much as other investments. They do need to tighten their belts just as other companies are doing. I just hope that building these larger ships isn't a mistake. Shucks if they feel that it is a destination all by itself, then park it in the ocean and forget the fuel surcharges.

[Gonzo70]

I have not heard that they have discontinued it, but it sure would not surprise me with how much the stock has dropped and with them suspended their quarterly dividend. I will see if I can find out anything.

 

Edit: There are no press releases about such a change and the following is posted on the web site: "Please note that as of December 31, 2008, the Shareholder Onboard Credit will not be combinable with other Onboard Booking Credits, Loyalty Programs and/or other Reduced Fare Offerings. For bookings made prior to December 31, 2008, the Shareholder Onboard Credit is combinable under certain conditions. Please direct queries to InvestorRelations@rccl.com, and a prompt response will be forthcoming."

 

I would say that the person who spoke to the OP misunderstood the changes with the Shareholder OBC no longer being combinanble with other perks starting December 31, 2008 and erroneously thought it meant the Shareholder OBC was being suspended. That said, I think people do need to be prepared for the end of Shareholder OBC as that is a distinct possibility at some point in the next several months.

[c-legs]

I have not heard that they have discontinued it, but it sure would not surprise me with how much the stock has dropped and with them suspended their quarterly dividend.

 

 

I think people do need to be prepared for the end of Shareholder OBC as that is a distinct possibility at some point in the next several months.

Good evening,

 

Well said.:) From a purely objective economist point of view, that makes a whole lot of sense. One only has to '' do the maths'' to find out, very easily, which way the wind is blowing.

 

As a shareholder, if I'm cold-blooded about this, those OBCs will go the same way the dividends have: suspended

 

As a cruise-aholic.....it would suck if they did.....

 

A ''precedent'' has already been established with the fuel supplements: the cruise lines have demonstrated that drastic measures made necessary by a bad turn in the fiscal world can be withdrawn when the $$$ landscape reverts back to a manageable level.

Dividends & shareholders OBCs might very well follow the same path.

 

Cheers ( ....!! ):rolleyes:

[Driftwoodgal]

The question as a stock holder is the change in policy for loyal clients. Will they or won't they continue sailing in the economic down turn. If you are on a fixed income and losing credits will they stop cruising? Only time will tell if management guesses right.

 

Is it cheaper to sail with a 1/5 empty ship or or full ship? Saying that the numbers could be higher or lower, it could be 1/4 full or empty or 1/8 full or empty. How many cruisers leave the ship without a balance due on their credit card? More people on the ship that sails, more money you can make by their spending.

 

I guess my beef is that I have NC certificates that I had a promise of an OBC when I booked my next cruise. Now I am being forced to book a cruise before 12/31/08 to get the OBC and any other perks that might be offered. I have cruises booked, and have other places that we want to go, but they aren't available yet for the dates we want to book. So note to self we won't be booking any NC Certificates. I do understand why the company is doing the cost cutting, but heah not a happy camper.

 

Guess I will be reading my stockholder booklet alot closer this year. Just might not be voting for the suggested board if things aren't turning around.

 

Does anyone know if you can cancel your NC certificate and get your deposit back without canceling a cruise? If the things are worthless for an OBC why should I keep them?

[Rancher Dave]

Don't think that benefit will be pulled too quickly. The stock price is rising once again, the dividend was cut, it would be somewhat a really bad sign if more incentives for owning the stock were pulled out.

 

I just wish a couple weeks ago I had more cash on hand to buy more of the stock since it has increased in value nealy 2x what is was not but several trading days ago...

[satxdiver]

I have not heard either way as to whether they have discontinued the OBC or kept it. Stock holders, even ones with one share, are able to vote at the annual meeting. Why waste your time complaining to RCL? We should organize and petition to be on the agenda at the next stock holders meeting to vent our frustrations with management. Management at RCL works for us the stock holders.

 

If the management persists in taking away our stockholder rights of an OBC, we need to organize and present our grievences with the policy at the next stock holders meeting. There are enough of us to create a block of votes that management will pay attention.

 

We have rights as stock holders. Let us use them now!!!!

[Lynnees]

The question as a stock holder is the change in policy for loyal clients. Will they or won't they continue sailing in the economic down turn. If you are on a fixed income and losing credits will they stop cruising? Only time will tell if management guesses right.

 

Is it cheaper to sail with a 1/5 empty ship or or full ship? Saying that the numbers could be higher or lower, it could be 1/4 full or empty or 1/8 full or empty. How many cruisers leave the ship without a balance due on their credit card? More people on the ship that sails, more money you can make by their spending.

 

I guess my beef is that I have NC certificates that I had a promise of an OBC when I booked my next cruise. Now I am being forced to book a cruise before 12/31/08 to get the OBC and any other perks that might be offered. I have cruises booked, and have other places that we want to go, but they aren't available yet for the dates we want to book. So note to self we won't be booking any NC Certificates. I do understand why the company is doing the cost cutting, but heah not a happy camper.

 

Guess I will be reading my stockholder booklet alot closer this year. Just might not be voting for the suggested board if things aren't turning around.

 

Does anyone know if you can cancel your NC certificate and get your deposit back without canceling a cruise? If the things are worthless for an OBC why should I keep them? yes

 

What you have to do is book a cruise - any cruise at all and put down the rest of your deposit. Then a few days later call and cancel that cruise and you will get all your deposit back.

[Lynnees]

There are major problems no doubt. I was talking to clients of mine last night who came over on the Independence TA in November.

 

I was told the ship was sailing with 1,000 less than regular/double capacity. Those that were on were cutting back with their onboard spending. People were not eating in the main dining room - so as not to have to tip? (I don't know.) This information was given to him by the captain as they had been invited for a tour with him so had ample time to talk to him.

 

How is the Oasis going to compete in this market if they can't fill the Independence?

[silentbob007]

I'm not sure a TA is a good example of ships not filling ... the length of those cruises, as well as the return airfare, is enough to discourage people even with the bargains to be had in terms of cruise fare.

[cruisinMike]

I have not heard either way as to whether they have discontinued the OBC or kept it. Stock holders, even ones with one share, are able to vote at the annual meeting. Why waste your time complaining to RCL? We should organize and petition to be on the agenda at the next stock holders meeting to vent our frustrations with management. Management at RCL works for us the stock holders.

 

If the management persists in taking away our stockholder rights of an OBC, we need to organize and present our grievences with the policy at the next stock holders meeting. There are enough of us to create a block of votes that management will pay attention.

 

We have rights as stock holders. Let us use them now!!!!

 

I seriously doubt that the mom and pop holders of 100 shares will influence anything. With over 50% of the stock held by institutions (and we're talking over 200 million shares), and that doesn't count other major holders that have a significant investment in the stock, who are worried about returns rather then some OBC, I think the loud voice you are hoping for in a block of votes will only sound more like a wimper on a message board. Unfortunately, and a little off topic, but some folks here on these threads were overtaken by emotion of cheerleaders in buying their 100 shares more then by reason.

[Lynnees]

I'm not sure a TA is a good example of ships not filling ... the length of those cruises, as well as the return airfare, is enough to discourage people even with the bargains to be had in terms of cruise fare.

 

 

I disagree. TA's have been/are very popular until lately. Yes, the reasons you give are indicative of why they are low capacity now but that hasn't always been so. When we sailed in the spring the ship was full.

 

Ships are having a difficult time filling now. Just look at the bargains out there. Even over the holiday season there are still some relatively cheap cruises available.

 

The lastest developments with the bailouts for auto, economy still sinking etc etc is doing damage to the cruise industry and will only get worse. I know there are some who say they will sail "no matter what" but the reality is there are major problems and the cruise industry is not immune to them.

[PSCruiser]

There are major problems no doubt. I was talking to clients of mine last night who came over on the Independence TA in November.

 

I was told the ship was sailing with 1,000 less than regular/double capacity. Those that were on were cutting back with their onboard spending. People were not eating in the main dining room - so as not to have to tip? (I don't know.) This information was given to him by the captain as they had been invited for a tour with him so had ample time to talk to him.

 

How is the Oasis going to compete in this market if they can't fill the Independence?

 

We were on that TA, and I'll have to disagree with those observations. First of all, that would mean that the ship sailed at about 70% of double capacity - I don't think that RC ever lets that happen. Didn't see anything different than normal crowds in theaters, dining, pool deck. As for spending, TAs attract experienced cruisers - they are used to being on ships, it is not that one week "trip of a lifetime" where you just throw the money around. Just my opinion.

[Gonzo70]

If the management persists in taking away our stockholder rights of an OBC, we need to organize and present our grievences with the policy at the next stock holders meeting. There are enough of us to create a block of votes that management will pay attention.

 

We have rights as stock holders. Let us use them now!!!!

 

Sorry, but there are not nearly enough of us to create a block of votes that is significant to management. Most of the stock is held by mutual funds and large companies. Individual mom & pop shareholders that use the OBC benefit is a speck of sand in the total float. Also we have no "rights" of OBC. The Shareholder OBC was a generous gift that the company was giving to shareholders who cruise; nothing more, nothing less.

[Lynnees]

We were on that TA, and I'll have to disagree with those observations. First of all, that would mean that the ship sailed at about 70% of double capacity - I don't think that RC ever lets that happen. Didn't see anything different than normal crowds in theaters, dining, pool deck. As for spending, TAs attract experienced cruisers - they are used to being on ships, it is not that one week "trip of a lifetime" where you just throw the money around. Just my opinion.

 

 

The information was given to them by the Captain when they were on a bridge tour so I'm inclined to believe him.

 

Of course they have to let it happen. If it isn't booked it isn't booked. They couldn't just tie it to the dock and say we'll wait until it's fuller.

[Gonzo70]

Don't think that benefit will be pulled too quickly. The stock price is rising once again, the dividend was cut, it would be somewhat a really bad sign if more incentives for owning the stock were pulled out.

 

I just wish a couple weeks ago I had more cash on hand to buy more of the stock since it has increased in value nealy 2x what is was not but several trading days ago...

 

Don't worry, you likely will have another chance. I would say the odds are very good RCL will retest it's 52 week low at some point in the next few months (if not sooner). I do not think we have hit the bottom in terms of the economy. Also, the Shareholder OBC is not an "incentive" for owning the stock. The shareholders who use the OBC represent a tiny fraction of 1% of the total float of shares. As I said in my post above, Shareholder OBC is just a gift the company passed on to shareholders. Same as when Wrigley sent shareholders a case of gum at Christmas time.

[PSCruiser]

The information was given to them by the Captain when they were on a bridge tour so I'm inclined to believe him.

 

Of course they have to let it happen. If it isn't booked it isn't booked. They couldn't just tie it to the dock and say we'll wait until it's fuller.

 

Well, Marilyn, guess I'm in an argumentative mood this morning, but if I understand your use of the term "client" you are a TA? Can you name an RC cruise leaving in the next few weeks that has anywhere near 30% of cabins still available? What they do is drop the price. That's how I got a TA for uinder $500 a year or so ago.

I find people tend to enhance info with lines like "we told that by the captain" - kind of reminds me of how urban myths get started. As before, just my opinion.

[Lynnees]

Well, Marilyn, guess I'm in an argumentative mood this morning, but if I understand your use of the term "client" you are a TA? Can you name an RC cruise leaving in the next few weeks that has anywhere near 30% of cabins still available? What they do is drop the price. That's how I got a TA for uinder $500 a year or so ago.

I find people tend to enhance info with lines like "we told that by the captain" - kind of reminds me of how urban myths get started. As before, just my opinion.

 

 

I am well aware that they drop the price, but that doesn't always work. If you have to book a flight back they aren't dropping the cost of that therefore just because the cruise is reduced doesn't mean the rest of it will.

 

This gentleman did not enhance the info. He's not the type. Anyway, I have no intentions of arguing. I will take his word for what he told me.........

 

I do know the cruise I will be on myself has not changed prices since I booked it in Sept. 07. There are nearly 100 cabins available, most of them higher priced. There seem to be a lot more cancellations happening on it even though it's well past final payment. There will be a one day special on it next week, but again, because of the air, I don't think there will truly be much movement on it.

[land lover]

If they were going to discontinue the benefit, why make it non-combinable first?

 

Starting in January, the people who use it will be those that book IS cabins, cabins that RCI usually discounts anyway.....keeping the benefit is no loss to RCI the way I see it.

[cruisinMike]

Well, Marilyn, guess I'm in an argumentative mood this morning, but if I understand your use of the term "client" you are a TA? Can you name an RC cruise leaving in the next few weeks that has anywhere near 30% of cabins still available? What they do is drop the price. That's how I got a TA for uinder $500 a year or so ago.

I find people tend to enhance info with lines like "we told that by the captain" - kind of reminds me of how urban myths get started. As before, just my opinion.

 

Well if its authority level you need- I have a friend who's brother works as a VP for a janitorial service, and he has an employee that is a cousin to a woman that cleans houses, and she has a friend that works tables at a restaurant, and she had a customer who coincidently works for the same janitorial service as the VP and cleans at RCL Headquarters, who told the waitress, who told the woman who cleans houses, who told the cousin, who told the employee, who told the VP of the janitorial service, who told his brother, who told me, that he overheard Goldstein in the bathroom, where he was cleaning, saying ships are sailing at only 70% occupancy.

 

So there!!!

[Lineaway]

Shareholder OBC not an incentive for owning the stock??????????????????????? I strongly disagree. Key words here would be "an incentive" vs. "sole reason."

 

I have been watching this stock and CCL for a couple years and read alot of the posts here on this. I remember posts when both stocks were in the upper 30's/40's and people were buying claiming what a great deal it was with the OBC. Of course others would reply not to buy for that reason alone etc. etc. My point is it was the OBC that got their attention.

 

We take at least one cruise a year so that 100 OBC will be better than a dividend. Tax free. It doesn't cost RCL 100 bucks as you are buying services onboard or their overpriced drinks etc. If I am wavering between a Princess, HAL or Carnival cruise over a RCL, all things equal I'm gonna book RCL. Its a great marketing tool for owning the stock. Think about it.

 

I would have never even watched this stock had it not been for that OBC. Granted I wouldn't have bought in at 43 a share which is the 52 week high but I got in at 8.47. OBC was NOT my sole reason for getting in, suspending the dividend (although that pushes some investors/funds out) isn't always a bad thing. They have already adjusted the OBC benefit recently.

 

I contacted Investor Relations over the OBC as I fell for some of the posters claiming the end is near for the OBC and I wouldn't recieve it for our Jan. trip because I already had OBC. I got my answer yesterday. You do get the Shareholder benefit even if you have OBC from your booking. I have a regional sale price for my Jan. cruise along with an OBC from the Travel Service I use. I still will get my 100 OBC.

 

Nothing says they won't modify it again to something more along the lines of more shares required or min. length of ownership. But eliminating it just doesn't seem realistic.

[negc]

Don't worry, you likely will have another chance. I would say the odds are very good RCL will retest it's 52 week low at some point in the next few months (if not sooner). I do not think we have hit the bottom in terms of the economy. Also, the Shareholder OBC is not an "incentive" for owning the stock. The shareholders who use the OBC represent a tiny fraction of 1% of the total float of shares. As I said in my post above, Shareholder OBC is just a gift the company passed on to shareholders. Same as when Wrigley sent shareholders a case of gum at Christmas time.

 

I guess you could use that figure to argue either way. Since the shareholders who use the OBC represent such a small fraction of the total number of shares held, there is a relatively insignificant cost savings in eliminating it, especially weighed against the number of bookings that might result from offering it. An OBC only "costs" them anything if someone books a cruise and then does not generate any onboard revenue for them (how likely is that?). This is not to say that the corporation might not decide to eliminate it, only that it wouldn't be one of their smarter or more productive decisions.

In the meantime, as long as they remain available, I will continue to take advantage of the OBCs which by now have pretty much offset any loss in value of my RCI stock.:)