Carnival miracle bait and switch

[Upandadam]

I was on the 11/29 departure - our itinerary was not changed. While I sympathize with the OP and others who have had itinerary changes-I do not believe that Carnival knew way ahead of time that they would have to change - otherwise, they would have had to change ours also - I would guess the problem got worse. I know I would have been disappointed if I couldn't go to Costa Rica and Panama, but I would have been more disappointed about losing one of those sea days! Also - I don't know if this is normal, but there was a tremendous vibration when we were in the dining room - our table was way aft against the window.

 

Carnival DID know. There were posts on this board going back several months about the propulsion problem. And yes, the problem did get worse, as was to be expected by Carnival. Hence the upcoming drydock. Unfortunately when we booked our 1-24-09 cruise we didn't think to check these boards for potential mechanical problems. Didn't get on here until after we booked. I guess froom now on we check these boards for potential mechanical issues since Carnival doesn't seem to want to let that information be known in advance. They probably should have drydocked when the problems were first known instead of waiting until it got so bad that they had to change the advertised itineraries. And given a credit or some other compensation to the cruise(s) that would have had to have been skipped at that time.

 

Don't get me wrong, this is not the fault of the Captain or Crew. And we still plan to have a great time.

[jdnaples]

That would be a dream come true for me! I love Costa Maya and Roatan but they are never on the same itinerary. Cozumel is always a good time.

 

Dr. Jack

 

 

Those posting saying that there is nothing wrong with Carnival changing ports need to reconsider their logic. Panama is one of the wonders of the world. It is a change in kind to switch from Panama and Limon to Costa Maya and Roatan.

 

If it is just fine to switch anytime as suggested, why pick? I asked my TA to buy the canal excursion before booking the cruise to be sure I could see it. What would you say if you booked a cruise to the Mediterranean to see Rome, Athens, Florence, Venice etc., but the cruiseline changed itinerery and took you to other ports you were not interested in? You would say, "fine! The captain was just doing his job?" I can't speak for you, but I doubt that you would say that. Of course, that is more extreme. But is it? Many people on that boat told me the only reason that they booked the cruise was to see the canal. I booked it just to photograph it. The cruiseline is not supposed to repick ports and should only change if necessary. Admittedly, if there was an engine problem, they can change. However, they knew Thursday and never informed me or my TA. I have used the same TA for a long time and she checked all her emails. I never would have paid for the Miracle's itenerery. Besides the ship was not pristine. Two couples at my table had ants coming out from under their refrigerator. So just because you are happy on any old cruise ship does not excuse carnival from their crass attitude about changing ports. On the map they went about half way and never offered a fuel refund. The captain never offered an apology. They did not notify most of their passengers so that they could switch cruises. Many on that were extremely dissappointed. Shame on Carnival.

[10splyr]

I'm not totally sure, but I suspect the ants came in from the luggage b/c they sure as heck don't live on a cruise ship!

 

I was on the Miracle's 12/7 sailing and the propulsion problems did get worse. Additionally a ship cannot just "go into drydock" on a moment's notice: drydock is not like your local car repair shop. I'm thinking that Carnival just got the notice that there was an open slot in February and no sooner.

 

Doesn't make the unhappy posters any happier, however. Chill out and have a Merry Christmas, Happy Holiday season.

[mjmiller]

Does Carnival's contract say that they will only change "unimportant ports"? Or "lesser desired ports"? No.

 

Yes, I feel bad for those on cruises where ports are changed, especially if many of those cruisers specifically chose that particular cruise because of the ports. But it is ridiculous to claim "bait and switch."

 

Carnival hoped they could still do the route. Then they decided to shorten the route for the safety of those on board and so that they wouldn't totally wreck the propulsion system. Can you just imagine all the whining and complaining if Carnival had done even more damage to the propulsion - forcing them to pull the ship and cancel cruises at the last minute?! Then folks would say it was Carnival's fault for running the ship too hard when they knew there was a problem. Carnival can't win, can they?!

[Upandadam]

Does Carnival's contract say that they will only change "unimportant ports"? Or "lesser desired ports"? No.

 

Yes, I feel bad for those on cruises where ports are changed, especially if many of those cruisers specifically chose that particular cruise because of the ports. But it is ridiculous to claim "bait and switch."

 

Carnival hoped they could still do the route. Then they decided to shorten the route for the safety of those on board and so that they wouldn't totally wreck the propulsion system. Can you just imagine all the whining and complaining if Carnival had done even more damage to the propulsion - forcing them to pull the ship and cancel cruises at the last minute?! Then folks would say it was Carnival's fault for running the ship too hard when they knew there was a problem. Carnival can't win, can they?!

 

Yes Carnival CAN win. Instead of gambling on being able to make the ports as advertised, and as they took in the $$$$, let people know there's the potential for a problem so they can make an informed decision. Simple.

[Pitboss32]

let people know there's the potential for a problem

 

You could slap "potential for a problem" on anything. There is potential for a problem every single waking day.:rolleyes:

[FlaMilkman]

There is no "potential" with the Miracle's current problems. It is a reality.

I booked three cabins with Carnival approximately six months ago. The financial agreement that I made with Carnival was that I compensate the company several thousand dollars for a Southern Caribbean cruise. It is not a reasonable expectation that I, as a paying customer, have to proactively look through the boards on a routine basis to discover an issue with our ship.

Had Carnival notified me in a timely manner (when the problem became severe enough to restructure our agreement) then I would have had the CHOICE as to whether to stay with the Miracle, look at one of the numerous options available or cancel entirely. Instead, Carnival took our final payment and only 16 days out did they notify me of the fundamental change to our financial agreement where the choice is now accept the situation or cancel (of course in their pre-recorded message that wasn't presented as an option). Instead of a Southern Caribbean cruise, I am now taking an Eastern Caribbean cruise.

I am sure that once I get on board, provided the mechanical issues don't deteriote further, my family and I will have a great time. That being said, the next time I research a cruise I will consider other companies who value their customers more than Carnival apparently does.

[Zingy2]

Milkman,

 

Consider this,

 

Weather happens...could cause a change to your cruise (hurricane, etc). Same holds true if you are flying in and bad weather prevents you from arriving in a timely manner (like right now where thousands of folks are stranded at airports due to weather).

 

Mechanical problems happen also.... we cannot predict them and sometimes we cannot prevent them. That is why we have cruise insurance, etc., to help mitigate these problems.

 

At least Carnival rerouted the cruise to other ports for the duration. If you were on an airline, you may have been stuck somewhere or sent somewhere you did not want to be....and guess what..... you would get ZIP for compensation (we have been there and done that on numerous occasions because of weather or mechanical issues.....too bad....so sad say the airlines....poop happens.....sleep in the terminal and wait for the weather to clear or wait for another aircraft/aircrew to become available....with no compensation. Carnival is doing the best they can with a less then desirable situation. I am sure other cruiselines would have done the same.

[G'ma]

I diagree:

 

Three days is absolutely last minute in that this precludes any chance of re-scheduling vacations, airline tickets, childcare, other transportation, etc. Carnival is not resonsible for your scheduling, childcare and other trransportation. You could have cancelled and received a refund or booked another ship.

 

Additionally, the communication that WAS sent fails to notify pax that per Carnival's Port Cancellation Policy they ARE allowed to cancel without penalty within 24 hours of receipt of the notification. Ethically, This should have been included. This information is contained in ALL information on their website and on your documents. It's up to YOU to read the info sent out. If you don't read it, it's not their fault by any means.

 

Many of us schedule a Western Caribbean Panama itinerary specifically for the Panama Canal excursions, so anything (short of weather and such) that impacts that port IS legitimately disturbing. When you choose to cruise, you are at the mercy of many things over which no one can control. There should always be a plan "B" in place and never book a cruise strictly for the ports.....you will sometimes disappointed.

 

We've ruled-out the Miracle for cruising and will look at the newer Carnival Freedom for Panama itinerary or at Princess's 10-day Panama itinerary (Princess now includes "Cancel for Any Reason" coverage in their Berkley Trip Insurance - I wish Carnival would do this with their Berkley Policies!). You could have cancelled the Carnival trip also....if you had read what was sent you. You should know that any ship, any time, any itinerary, can change the itinerary for any reason. They all do it for various reasons. There are no guarantees that you will make the exact ports shown.....and the "subject to change" info is all over the place on websites.

 

ken

 

Look, we all are disappointed when our itinerary is changed. We know this can happen but hope it doesn't. Complaining, ranting, threatning serves no purpose. Nothing can be done about it....simply a fact of life when you step onto a ship. It is really up to each of us to make sure we read and understand all the information concerning our cruise, the ship, all policies that might affect us. When it happens, accept that it's a done deal...and go on with modifying any plans you may need to change.

[Zingy2]

Milkman,

 

Here is an article on MSN: Poor folks are stuck at O'hare because of the horrible winter weather....they are a family of four, trying to go on a cruise....should Carnival (or whatever cruise line they are traveling with)have notified them in a timely manner that the weather was going to SUCK and ultimately prevent them from going on their cruise?:

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28367657

[G'ma]

Those posting saying that there is nothing wrong with Carnival changing ports need to reconsider their logic. Panama is one of the wonders of the world. It is a change in kind to switch from Panama and Limon to Costa Maya and Roatan. Panama could be paved with gold and the government giving free diamonds to arriving passengers and it still won't mean that the ship can reach it when mechanical problems arise. This is not a choice made lightly. Decisions are made to preserve the safety of the ship and her passengers while still providing a great cruise experience.

 

If it is just fine to switch anytime as suggested, why pick? I asked my TA to buy the canal excursion before booking the cruise to be sure I could see it. What would you say if you booked a cruise to the Mediterranean to see Rome, Athens, Florence, Venice etc., but the cruiseline changed itinerery and took you to other ports you were not interested in? If I were upset by itinerary changes, I would chose a land-based vacation....not a cruise. You would say, "fine! The captain was just doing his job?" I can't speak for you, but I doubt that you would say that. Of course, that is more extreme. But is it? Many people on that boat told me the only reason that they booked the cruise was to see the canal. I booked it just to photograph it. The cruiseline is not supposed to repick ports and should only change if necessary. They only change itineraries when necessary.....do you really believe they purposely set out to upset their passengers? Ridiculous. Admittedly, if there was an engine problem, they can change. However, they knew Thursday and never informed me or my TA. If you booked with an agent, that agent was advised by phone or email. You might want to vent your spleen at him/her. I have used the same TA for a long time and she checked all her emails. I never would have paid for the Miracle's itenerery. Besides the ship was not pristine. Two couples at my table had ants coming out from under their refrigerator. So just because you are happy on any old cruise ship does not excuse carnival from their crass attitude about changing ports. On the map they went about half way and never offered a fuel refund. The captain never offered an apology. They did not notify most of their passengers so that they could switch cruises. Many on that were extremely dissappointed. Shame on Carnival.

 

Apparently, you have never read any information about cruising, never read any of the documents that were given to you, never browsed the website looking for info that might effect you. Your travel agent also has a responsibility to inform you of what you need to know.

 

Carnival - and others - don't make decisions just to tick people off. Itinerary changes aren't made lightly. The captain doesn't owe anyone an apology, Carnival doesn't owe anyone any money. Their decisions are not crass or meanspirited......the safety of the ship and passengers are primary. Information about port cancellations and refunds is all over the place.....and your travel agent could have advised you too.

 

The Miracle is a perfectly wonderful ship that I've had the pleasure of sailing on twice.......and the ship inspections held by the Center for Disease Control (CDC) has scored Miracle 100 twice, 99 five times, 98 once and 97 twice since it entered service....one of the best in the industry...proving that it has no bug infestations, no sanitation problems and is spit/spot clean and in the best of condition and is, indeed, pristine.

[G'ma]

Yes Carnival CAN win. Instead of gambling on being able to make the ports as advertised, and as they took in the $$$$, let people know there's the potential for a problem so they can make an informed decision. Simple.

 

OOh,brother...now I've heard everything.

 

Anytime one choses to travel, there are potential problems on the horizon. When you get in your car, there is a potential problem somewhere.... Go for a walk, --- whooops--- look out for those potential problems.

 

Really, now.

[Kurbanfan]

Yes Carnival CAN win. Instead of gambling on being able to make the ports as advertised, and as they took in the $$$$, let people know there's the potential for a problem so they can make an informed decision. Simple.

 

Absolutely!!

[G'ma]

How a reasonable, mature adult person has dealt with this situation-how refreshing:

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=893040

[FlaMilkman]

Why am I not a reasonable person for expecting what I paid for??? I don't get a number of you people . . . simply act as sheep and accept whatever Carnival tells you and decides to compensate you without so much as a whimper - even though you have paid several thousand dollars for a specific experience. Are you telling me that if you bought a lemon of a car, you would simply accept it with the manufacturer's apology and a free oil change?? I don't know about you, but I work extremely hard for my salary, provide excellent service to my customers and am very careful where I spend my money.

The BIG difference between what is happening to the poor people due to winter storms and what is happening with the Miracle is timing. Carnival knew of the issues and did nothing for a considerable length of time. If they had notified us early on then our family would have likely switched onto a different ship. Carnival knew this was a possibility for a number of people (as proved on our Roll Call thread) and obviously decided to do the minimum possible so that people would continue to stay with the Miracle. Otherwise it would have resulted in a tremendous financial hit on top of the unexpected budget hit of taking the ship out of service for a couple of weeks and making unexpected repairs.

No, the management in Carnival's office doesn't specifically plan on how to disappoint customers (duh). I am also quite certain that they do have meetings on how to maximize profit though and, in one such meeting(s) they had extensive conversations on how they can minimize the financial loss with the current mechanical problems with the ship.

As I stated before, I am sure that once we are on the ship we will have a great time. However, as a senior manager in a company that strives to be as transparent as possible in our business dealings with our customers, I am disappointed in the way that Carnival has handled this situation.

[DancerOT]

Ok, now that I have read everything, I have a few questions. These questions are coming from a 28 year old who has 11 family members currently on the Miracle, who had their itinerary changed at the last minute and are dissapointed that they are no longer going to St. Lucia (they were very excited about the volcano and ziplining tour they had lined up). However, my mother emailed me and said "please go on CC and find info on Grand Turk". They are now going to Jack's Shack and going to have a day at the beach.

 

But, on the positive side, I have been looking for a cruise for my boyfriend and myself and I guess bookings are down because I found some good prices for a cruise coming up on Miracle. In order to get the price and the onboard credit, I think I need to book prior to my family coming back so I can't ask them their thoughts. How is Miracle? Are there stabilization problems? Honestly, to me the ports are irrelevant - I just want to spend time with my BF. Although, if it helps the ports have already been changed to Cozumel (been there - love Carlos and Charlies), Roatan (haven't been there - any thoughts), Costa Maya (haven't been there but have spent a fair amount of time in the Riviera Maya), and Belize (was there a few years ago but found a shore excursion I would love to do).

 

Thanks!

[firefly333]

Absolutely!!

 

You are one of the few people who gets it. Carnival COULD communicate better and let folks know <earlier> and have a choice. Unfortunately Carnival knows the longer they wait to tell folks the less choices they have.

 

Do people really not get this??? Are they that undemanding of Carnival that they dont care where the ship goes or when they find out? Or is it because it's someone else's vacation they get up on their soap boxes to lecture others?? CC is really getting a bad reputation for having this type of poster in abundance. I know I started finding other cruise forums to post on where folks are actually nice. Can you imagine nice posters with empathy?? Unheard of here, well you have some empathy, but its few and far between from posters on CC. Maybe they just drive nice folks away is how they are taking over here on CC.

[firefly333]

Why am I not a reasonable person for expecting what I paid for??? I don't get a number of you people . . . simply act as sheep and accept whatever Carnival tells you and decides to compensate you without so much as a whimper

 

Carnival knew of the issues and did nothing for a considerable length of time. If they had notified us early on then our family would have likely switched onto a different ship. Carnival knew this was a possibility for a number of people (as proved on our Roll Call thread) and obviously decided to do the minimum possible so that people would continue to stay with the Miracle. Otherwise it would have resulted in a tremendous financial hit on top of the unexpected budget hit of taking the ship out of service for a couple of weeks and making unexpected repairs.

 

 

If the folks here really dont care where the ship goes, good for them. I do care. I get what the OP said. Its about communication. Dont sweat this thread. CC is attracting a lot with this mentality that gang up if you dare to say Carnival could have communicated better. You arent going to get thru to many posters here that a cruise supposed to go to Panama not going there would be dissapointing. Many posters here simply cannot "get this concept".

[Chat Noir]

Do people really not get this??? Are they that undemanding of Carnival that they dont care where the ship goes or when they find out? Or is it because it's someone else's vacation they get up on their soap boxes to lecture others?? CC is really getting a bad reputation for having this type of poster in abundance. I know I started finding other cruise forums to post on where folks are actually nice. Can you imagine nice posters with empathy?? Unheard of here, well you have some empathy, but its few and far between from posters on CC. Maybe they just drive nice folks away is how they are taking over here on CC.

 

Actually, I find this to be more true of the Cruise Line section than most others. If you go to the Ports of Call and several other forums here there aren't quite as many self-righteous posters. I generally believe that those who get high on their stick-horses have something lacking in their own lives that compels them to come here and blast any and all negative statements, including the valid ones. This is a valid one... it's parallel to ordering and being required to pay for filet mignon and a nice wine while being served a burger and a coke. Sure, they both fill you up, they may both tasted good, you don't leave hungry, but bottom line, you way overpaid for what you received. It's paying steakhouse prices for burger-joint food. Foolish.

 

I'm not one to rag on stupid things like chair hogs, what people wear in the dining rooms (if they're clean and dressed, I'm happy), that my steward didn't fold my towel just right, the ship decor, the quality of entertainment, blah, blah, blah... but when you put out big bucks for a 'more exotic' itinerary, you should be allowed at minimum to voice your displeasure when you are actually given a 'common' itinerary.

 

Sometimes (more often than not, in fact) I wish CC had a Gripe forum... maybe call it the Cranky Cruiser section, then all those who are bothered by the fact that some people just need an outlet when things go sour wouldn't have to even click the tab. They could stay where it's all warm and fuzzy and let those who get frostbitten on occasion just thaw out. Newbies would have somewhere to go to see the pitfalls of sailing and might not be taken by surprise when something does go wrong.

 

Off my own 'self-righteous' soapbox.

 

Merry Christmas to all! (Sub in Happy Holidays if you wish, for me, it's Merry Christmas!)

[NCTribeFan]

I'm a bit confused. So, because there were propulsion problems starting in the summer, people think Carnival should've informed ALL people that they shouldn't book the Miracle becaues the itinerary could change?

 

But some of the itineraries were NOT changed, according to some posts in this thread, as recently as this month!

 

Is it possible that the projected seas could influence whether they could reach the ports with limited propulsion and that they CANNOT know what the weather influences would be until shortly before sailing? If the forecast is for smooth sailing, there might not be a need to change the itinerary, but if it looks like there could be rough seas, that they'll need to make the change and that they wouldn't know that until shortly before sailing?

 

There must be many, many factors that go into their decision to change or not change an itinerary.

 

Of course it's disappointing to book a cruise and then find out you're going elsewhere! I'm booked on this itinerary next year. I hope the drydock cures the problems. If not, I'm still going!

 

There's no need to consider Carnival the Evil Empire in this. I don't quite understand why there are a few people who post constantly on these boards that always, always, always take the "side" of the complainer. If you hate Carnival so much, why are you here?

 

There's also no reason to support Carnival 100% in all things they do. But if we didn't like the company and their product, we wouldn't be on the Carnival board.

 

The gripers and complainers are just not going to get much support here. Now, go to the RCI board and complain about Carnival and tell them how you'll never sail them again, and you'll get lots of support.

 

If you truly have complaints, write to Carnival. There's nothing anyone here can do to help you or make you feel better about what happened, so why bother?

[MadManOfBethesda]

Merry Christmas to all! (Sub in Happy Holidays if you wish, for me, it's Merry Christmas!)

 

And Happy Festivus to you. Actually, that greeting is probably more apropos since this appears to be the "airing of grievances" portion of the holiday! :D

[Upandadam]

OOh' date='brother...now I've heard everything.

 

Anytime one choses to travel, there are potential problems on the horizon. When you get in your car, there is a potential problem somewhere.... Go for a walk, --- whooops--- look out for those potential problems.

 

Really, now.[/quote']

 

What is it that you don't understand about the problem being a pre-existing one that Carnival new about but didnt share? Sure, anything can happen in daily life and unknown things occur all the time. This was NOT an unknown thing. How many times does this need to be repeated before people like you get it?

 

I mean, really now.

[FlaMilkman]

If you truly have complaints, write to Carnival. There's nothing anyone here can do to help you or make you feel better about what happened, so why bother?

 

1) There is a very good reason to voice opinions on boards like these. One voice doesn't have much of an effect on a corporation like Carnival. However, if many people voice the same opinion, then it MIGHT make a difference in the future. From what I have read, representatives from Carnival read these boards on a regular basis. Hopefully some of the constructive criticism works its way into the senior boardroom. It may not make a difference for me, but it may for others in the future. Doing nothing guarantees that nothing will be done by Carnival.

2) With our cruise in less than 2 weeks I can't change our reservations - we have family travelling from England, taken vacation time, etc. (I have contacted my TA and would have to pay a significant amount of additional money to do so - Carnival isn't too helpful in this matter). Consequently, I will withhold final judgement till after the cruise at which point I will likely send a letter voicing both the positives and negatives of our vacation.

[firemankerry]

the ports of call were Costa Maya, Cozumel,(both Mexico) Belize (original itinerary) and Roatan (Honduras). The cut off date for fuel surcharge refund was December 17 we sailed on the 15th so did not qualify under thier rules. However,not only hadteh price of oil been down for several successive weeks. we only used half of the fuel because of the shortened distances.

[firemankerry]

the miracle is a very nice ship. the food is great and the diningroom and room staff are wonderfull Roatan is beautiful. My duaghter took the zip line and Iwent scuba it is some of teh best scubain the world we aren't sure about stabilizatoin my wife is sensative and thought the ship ws rough we kept changing sppeds from 8 knots to 14 knots and 21 knots on the way home. dont wander aroundon your own in belize city it didnot seemsafe