Disrespectful Guests.........

[supercutie]

I have not noticed it, but I'm not surprised.

 

Respect and manners are not (IMHO) "instilled" into the minds of younger people as they were "years ago". I'm not trying to insinuate that all "older people" are respectful and well mannered, but the truth is, it has become a different world (on ships and most everywhere else).

 

 

Its not really the younger peoples fault if they don't have manners. The older people that do have manners had them "instilled" into them. It is their responsibility to teach the younger generation how to be courteous and have manners, if thats how they are wanting to be treated. I know every case is different, but most people don't know they are being rude, they only know how to act based on how their parents taught/allowed them to act.

 

Everyone should still be polite to people who are ignorant and being rude as a result, because if you start being rude to that person you are just teaching them to be more rude. Remember not everyone has been on a ship before, i haven't and i have no idea what the captain looks like, or the crew looks like, so unless all the staff has badges, i would probably be asking people if they work there if i needed assistance. If you see someone acting ignorant, try to help them out, if you don't work there and they ask you if you do, tell them how to tell the difference people that work there from the people on vacation. If thats really a big issue, I'm a little worried on how I'm going to know who are staff and who are guests.

[PCruzer]

I find many people in general who are disrespectful of others. As someone else stated, "It's me, me, me!" On a recent cruise, we were seated with the Captain & his wife at a table for 10 on one of the formal nights. It was our first time being asked to dine with the Captain, and I have to say that I was a little nervous about the whole thing. (What will he be like? What will I talk about? Etc.) My husband and I were both brought up by parents who taught us good manners. I needn't have worried about the dinner, as I was fine and Captain Russell-Dunford & his wife made everyone feel very comfortable. I do know that when someone is hosting, you should not begin eating/drinking before the host does. Well, there was a real big-mouth type guy at the table that night. After the Captain had the steward pour the wine, this guy did not wait for the Captain and took it upon himself to propose the toast. The Captain handled the situation very graciously, but I was rather embarrassed for this person's lack of table manners.

 

When it comes to behavior, I don't know if people just don't think or they just really don't know. We were at a birthday party for a friend in a restaurant last weekend. There were about 40 people there, some with small children. While everyone was eating their dinner, one woman 2 tables away from ours laid her 2 year old across 2 chairs at the table and proceeded to change his dirty diaper. There was a perfectly good restroom with changing facilities in the lavatory, but this woman chose to perform this task at the table while everyone was eating. How someone could not know that this is not the right thing to do is beyond me. Yuck!! Tacky, tacky, tacky!!

[bepsf]

I don't think it's right that we should stand by and watch as some self-righteous jerk berates a member of the staff or crew aboard ship - or for that matter a person in a service position anywhere.

 

Staffpeople frequently are not in a position to adequately defend themselves against such cruelty, so in many ways it's up to us as peers of the people who are being abusive to let them know that their behavior is inappropriate.

 

If one has a legitimate complaint, there are legitimate and non-combative ways to go about voicing those concerns without making it a personal vendetta against someone who just happens to be wearing a nametag.

[sail7seas]

Its not really the younger peoples fault if they don't have manners. The older people that do have manners had them "instilled" into them. It is their responsibility to teach the younger generation how to be courteous and have manners, if thats how they are wanting to be treated. I know every case is different, but most people don't know they are being rude, they only know how to act based on how their parents taught/allowed them to act.

 

Everyone should still be polite to people who are ignorant and being rude as a result, because if you start being rude to that person you are just teaching them to be more rude. Remember not everyone has been on a ship before, i haven't and i have no idea what the captain looks like, or the crew looks like, so unless all the staff has badges, i would probably be asking people if they work there if i needed assistance. If you see someone acting ignorant, try to help them out, if you don't work there and they ask you if you do, tell them how to tell the difference people that work there from the people on vacation. If thats really a big issue, I'm a little worried on how I'm going to know who are staff and who are guests.

 

You will have no difficulty identifying Officers (or any crew) on an HAL ship. You certainly will recognize a uniform, with epaulets, that have varying number of stripes in several different colors.

 

Common sense would tell most of us the more stripes, the higher the rank. No?

 

Certainly you many not recognize a deck officer from a hotel officer at first but that comes quickly.

 

There will be no doubt in your mind who are the stewards and officers and sailors etc on a cruise ship.

 

Casino workers, Steiner and shop workers may not be immediately recognizable to you.

 

And Yes, crew wear name tags.

 

(:) ;) except on Formal Night. :D)

[supercutie]

You will have no difficulty identifying Officers (or any crew) on an HAL ship. You certainly will recognize a uniform, with epaulets, that have varying number of stripes in several different colors.

 

Common sense would tell most of us the more stripes, the higher the rank. No?

 

 

Thanks for the information, but no common sense to me wouldn't say more stripes means higher rank, I don't know what a epaulet is. I didn't even know ships had Officers till reading this post and I still don't know what they do. I've never heard of a situation where someone got more stripes for higher rank, i would have just assumed they picked the uniform because they liked the look.

I would be respectful to anyone though, weather they work for the ship or not. I am polite and respectful in situations when i know what behavior is expected of me. Being on a cruise is unlike any situation I have ever been in before, and I'm sure there are a lot of people that are being considered rude, that are in the same situation i am. Nice to know the crew will be wearing badges. I hope people give me a chance and politely correct me, instead of judging me, if I make an ignorant mistake.

Especially with cruises getting Cheaper I would think more people are going on their first cruise. I'm in my 20s, I've never been to a formal dinner before, i never eat at fancy restaurants with courses, i never stay in hotels, cheap motels when i travel. I have always wanted to go to Hawaii, and a cruise sounded like a cool new experience for me. I saved every penny and got a second job to pay for it.

I'm sure there are rude people out there, that know they are being rude and just don't care, but they are probably a minority. Most people just don't know.

[sail7seas]

It is the same as all military uniforms I've ever heard of. The more stripes, the higher the rank.

 

What fun reading to google epaulets and rank and military and discover a whole world of rank and officer levels. It will make it more fun for you when you board and see all those stripes, you will have a better idea what they mean.

 

Even if you pass a military officer in an airport, you'll have an idea what rank (s)he is.

So much to learn...... so little time. :)

 

Hope you have a fantastic time on your cruise.

 

Good manners are universal. I am sure you would know better than to interrupt a person speaking with another and rudely insist you want more bath towels. :eek:

 

[WeLoveCruising]

Thanks for the information, but no common sense to me wouldn't say more stripes means higher rank, I don't know what a epaulet is. I didn't even know ships had Officers till reading this post and I still don't know what they do. I've never heard of a situation where someone got more stripes for higher rank, i would have just assumed they picked the uniform because they liked the look.

I would be respectful to anyone though, weather they work for the ship or not. I am polite and respectful in situations when i know what behavior is expected of me. Being on a cruise is unlike any situation I have ever been in before, and I'm sure there are a lot of people that are being considered rude, that are in the same situation i am. Nice to know the crew will be wearing badges. I hope people give me a chance and politely correct me, instead of judging me, if I make an ignorant mistake.

Especially with cruises getting Cheaper I would think more people are going on their first cruise. I'm in my 20s, I've never been to a formal dinner before, i never eat at fancy restaurants with courses, i never stay in hotels, cheap motels when i travel. I have always wanted to go to Hawaii, and a cruise sounded like a cool new experience for me. I saved every penny and got a second job to pay for it.

I'm sure there are rude people out there, that know they are being rude and just don't care, but they are probably a minority. Most people just don't know.

 

Congratulations on your first cruise! You wont have any problem recognizing who works on the ship - either crew or officers. Once you get on board you'll easily see what everyone's talking about. T

 

There are three basic groups of people working on the ship:

 

Officers - they are the ones in charge, the highest ranking are the Captain and Hotel Manager. There are also enginnering officers, security officers, Dining Room Manager, Food and Beverage Manager, etc. These people wear "military" style uniforms, white in warm weather and dark blue in cool weather.

 

Crew - these are basically service oriented people, the people who serve your meals (called dining stewards), clean your room (called cabin steward), bartenders, maintenance people, etc. They all wear specific uniforms based on their job description. You will have NO problem figuring out who they are. Holland America Line is famous for the level of service provided by the crew, and they are primarily from Indonesia or the Phillipines. You will find them friendly, smiling, and one of the highlights of your cruise.

 

Staff - these are people that perform a specific service, like work in the spa, library or casino, or are entertainers, dancers, mucisians, etc. They might be wearing regular clothes or a uniform depending on who they are. They will be international - some American, British, Austraillain, South African, etc.

 

This is basically the way it is, but as you will see I have been on over 30 cruises and I might not have it exactly right :).

 

Everyone here had their first cruise at one time (mine was when I was about your age).

 

I hope you have an amazing time.

[jimmy2x]

I agree with you that the treatment of the Officers is disrepectful at times. Perhaps everyone should be required to read Captain Albert's blog before boarding to better understand what all is involved in providing us a wonderful vacation.

 

Would love to read it - got a link?

[rednancy1]

Again amazing post. Some disturbs your conversation to ask a civil question and you find that amazingly funny. You are amazing.

 

I find it rather amazing that you can't see the humor in someone interupting the ship's captain's conversation to say, hey, where's the bathroom. :eek:

 

I suggest you lighten up a bit. :cool:

[Copper10-8]

They now wear name plates with their name, their position (job) AND their pic on it - how 'bout them Dutch apples?

 

HAL crew uniforms 101:

 

 

HAL captain (Daily Summer uniform with four and a half gold bars, one of which is looped, the so-called "Nelson loop") & Internet Manager (left) with friends

 

 

HAL captain in formal/Mess wear (no name tag) but there are those dam stripes/shoulderboards again!

 

 

Ship's Management team in formal Summer wear - Left to right: Environmental Officer (three gold bars with blue filling), Chief Engineer (four gold bars), Chief Officer (three and a half gold bars, one of which is looped, the so-called "Nelson loop"), Hotel Manager (four gold bars with white filling) and Captain/Master (four and a half gold bars, one of which is looped). Red Santa hats are optional wear but you won't see them much in July in San Diego!

 

 

Hotel Manager (and his Queen) - (four gold bars with white filling)

 

 

Deck/Navigation Department in Summer (white) and working (khaki) uniform. From left to right: Captain (four and half gold bars with Nelson loop), Third Officer (one gold bar with Nelson loop), First Officer (three gold bars with Nelson loop), Second Officer (two gold bars with Nelson loop), Fourth Officer (one point five gold bar with Nelson loop), Chief Officer ((three and a half gold bars with Nelson loop), Cadet (one half gold bar with Nelson loop), Second Officer (two gold bars with Nelson loop), Fourth Officer (one and a half gold bar with Nelson loop) and Third Officer (one gold bar with Nelson loop)

 

 

Deck/Navigation Department in blue (winter) uniform (no shoulder boards but rank indicated by gold bars on sleeves) From left to right: Third Officer, First Officer, Fourth Officer, Captain, Second Officer, Third Officer, Second Officer, Chief Officer, Cadet, Third Officer, Cadet and Cadet (kneeling behind life ring).

[Copper10-8]

HAL uniforms 101 con't.

 

 

 

 

Engineering/Technical Department - Chief Engineer (four straight gold bars) on far right

 

 

Engineering Dept. in Daily work uniforms (khaki's, white and blue coveralls)

 

 

Front Office attendants (Gold "I" - for Information - within triangle on black shoulderboard

 

 

Pinnacle Grill Manager (in tux) and PG Chef (note the name plates)

[Copper10-8]

HAL uniforms 101 - con't.

 

 

Pinnacle Grill steward & Ship's photographer

 

 

Bar stewards (deck wear)

 

 

Lido Restaurant chefs Casino staff

 

 

Tamarind Pan-Asian Restaurant serving staff - Mamma Mia!:)

 

 

Disc Jockey

[rednancy1]

....Good manners are universal. I am sure you would know better than to interrupt a person speaking with another and rudely insist you want more bath towels. :eek:

 

 

Good one. :D:D:D

[herb]

It's like Forrest Gump's mom used to say: "Stupid is as stupid does".

 

THAT statement pretty much sums up the way some people act towards the staff working on a cruise ship!

[Copper10-8]

HAL uniforms 101 - con't

 

Production cast

 

Pastry chefs

 

Housekeeping Department: From left to right: Chief Housekeeper (two point five straight gold bars with white filling), two supervisors, a GPA (General Purpose Attendant) and a room steward.

 

[Copper10-8]

HAL uniforms 101 - Con't.

 

 

Hotel Department - Carpenters, upholsterers and locksmiths

 

Hotel Department - Culinary Operations Manager (formerly Food & Beverage Manager) - (three gold bars with white filling) with his Mum!

 

Event Staff (formerly Cruise or Cruise Activities Staff)

 

Deck/Navigation Department - Cadets (0.5 straight bar with the Nelson loop)

 

Communications Department - Information Technology Officer and Communications Officer (two point 0.5 gold bars with green filling)

[meterman2]

Thanks for the photos Copper. I really enjoyed them.

[GCurry]

Would love to read it - got a link?

 

Here you are, enjoy.

 

http://www.avidcruiser.com/albert/

[jhannah]

John, you are such a storehouse of information and edification! Now, please supply names for each of the pictured individuals! :D (just kidding)

[Copper10-8]

John, you are such a storehouse of information and edification! Now, please supply names for each of the pictured individuals! :D (just kidding)

 

You funny man, G.I.:)

Take care, Jim!

[RevNeal]

Thanks Copper.

Of course ... what do you do when they're off duty and getting a work out, jogging on the Promenade deck, in civvies. :D I think that's what the lady thought I was. She was wrong, of course.

 

Ships regs state state that even when an officer is not on duty and not in uniform, they should wear their name badge at all times. I have one for Chaplain duty. It has my name and "Guest Minister" on it. I understand the next time I serve I'll get one of the updated badges with the photo on it. :D Assuming I ever work a cruise again as chaplain. Every time I do I think "never again." I'm "on" 24/7 when not on vacation ... being "on" there too can become a bit much. :)

 

No shoulder boards, though ... I'm not paid crew, just volunteer "staff." If they did have a uniform and such for chaplains, the boards would look something like this:

 

[cruznon]

John,

Thanks for all the photos--that was great.

[Sleepladypalmdesert]

I have tried to instill in my children that there is nothing more attractive than a young man (woman) with good manners. On the flip side, there is nothing less attractive than a young man with poor manners. Excellent manners are learned behavior. Whenever I see a young man rush to open the door for me, wait to enter/leave an elevator before a woman, pull out a chair, open a car door, etc....I think to myself, now that young man had a good mama. A severely good looking, handsome man can be terribly ugly displaying poor manners. A homely man can be made appealingly attractive displaying excellent manners. Those boars treating the staff, brass or not, less than respectfully are just disrespecting their mamas.

[kryos]

"Do you work here?" What? Do they think he's wearing a halloween costume with four stripes on his shoulders? Jerks!

LOL ... yeah, but you gotta remember ... a lot of those passengers could be on their first cruise ... they may not know what the various stripe combinations are.

 

As for rudely interrupting the Hotel Manager ... what can I say, we live in an "entitled" generation these days. Simple courtesies have gone by the wayside when it comes to getting our money's worth. They feel they spent their money, and if they are dissatisfied they want someone to know about it ... common courtesies be "dammed."

 

Not saying it's right, just that it is the way it is.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[PatsyAnne]

In 2004, during a cruise on the Noordam, we were not able to pull into a harbor in Denmark because the combination of weather and tide meant we would probably not make it out again. In 2007 we were on the new Noordam, and ran into the same captain. When we mentioned the cruise we had taken with him, he said, yes, the one where we had missed that port (obviously, not a decision made easily). He said that after he had announced we would not be making port because of the danger, he had passengers coming up to him saying he should have tried it anyway. :eek: Doh! Maybe he should have let them swim for it.

 

I feel very safe with Holland America's captains and crews, and they definitely deserve my respect.

 

Trish