Misbehaving Children

[Koshlong]

I've taught every grade from OAC (sort of a Grade 13 Ontario used to have) to Kindergarten over the last thirty years (ouch!). I'm so used to working in an environment where ALL of the adults take the responsibility for ALL of the kids that I really have trouble minding my own business.

Luckily, all of the children we have met on board have be well behaved and interesting to talk to. Fingers crossed.

[cccole]

Sorry, Cherie, for my quote choice -- it wasn't directed at you -- just my overall feeling that relying on fellow passengers actually to have a clue about appropriate behavior onboard may be doomed to failure (in at least some cases).

 

MichellP - There is absolutely no reason to apologize - I agree with your suggestion on how to handle difficult situations.....and you said it so much better than I could have. I think that your comments regarding crew members who rely on tips to counsel passengers is appropriate. And...passengers should possibly go to the HM regarding problems and let a senior member of the staff handle the situation. I think that if cruise lines have a "behavior" policy that applies to passengers of all ages and applies that policy to all ages it would be so much nicer for all of us. Cherie

[AlexandNessa]

There is no excuse for poor parenting.

That said, I agree with the many posters that say they would not take their children on HAL. HAL marketed heavily to families without any significant changes to make the cruiseline more family friendly. As a result, the children are bored. Bored children are often misbehaving and looking for ways to entertain themselves.

We like HAL. We love Disney Cruises. We are a child-free couple. The vast number of children on DCL cruises do not scare us or deter us. The more children, the merrier. The more children, the less the adults-only sections of the ship are crowded. :) On Disney cruises, we see nary a child, and when we do, they are happy and well-entertained.

We sometimes dread seeing many kids on HAL. They are typically bored. Couple that with bad parenting, and it's no wonder the kids act like helions.

If HAL wants to market to families without any real family-friendly programs, the least they could do is offer AND ENFORCE adults-only sections of the ship.

[wdw1972]

That said, I agree with the many posters that say they would not take their children on HAL. HAL marketed heavily to families without any significant changes to make the cruiseline more family friendly. As a result, the children are bored. Bored children are often misbehaving and looking for ways to entertain themselves.COLOR]

 

I'll have to respectfully disagree that it's HAL's fault the kids are misbehaving. I would not cruise when my son was very young, because I believe cruising should be a primarily adult vacation. However, as a single mom I started taking him when he was 10 - on the previous Westerdam. We followed that with the Ryndam, Amsterdam, Rotterdam & Zuiderdam (by then he was 16). I also took him on 1 Disney cruise when he was 13 and he asked if all of his future cruises could please be back on HAL! He was never bored on HAL, and enjoyed alot more attention in Club HAL because there weren't 1000 kids on board! He did get grounded (couldn't go "out") one night because he missed curfew the night before (at age 15), but other than that never got into trouble.

 

Kids who know how to act, who have parents who set that expectation & give consequences for bad behavior will have no trouble on a HAL cruise in my opinion. The obnoxious bratty future criminals will always be noticed on a HAL ship - they stand out because they do NOT belong there. Sadly, their parents usually don't know or don't care (or both).

 

Sue/WDW1972

Westerdam 2/8/09

[AlexandNessa]

I never forgave poor parenting. I said there was no excuse for it.

But HAL **could** do a better job in making the ships more family friendly if that's who they choose to market to. We tend to see a lot of bored kids on HAL. I'm glad your son isn't one of them. What I said was bored kids on HAL + poor parenting = bad combo.

Granted, I am sure that there are plenty of helions on Disney too. The difference is, on Disney, we get to escape them without having to retreat to our cabins.

[sp2]

Anybody happen to read the article in USA Today about a week ago - it was a letter to the travel editor written by a woman who was incensed that NCL would not allow her diaper clad toddler into the swimming pool. The woman was so angry and felt that her "rights" had been violated. Ended up that, when the editor contacted NCL, they refunded the toddler's portion of their cabin fare. NCL shouldn't have had to do that, in my view. ----Penny

 

Okay, here's a good one for you.........just got back from the brand new Celebrity Solstice on Dec 14. Life boat drill, we are all sitting at our muster station which was in Michael's Club/Ensemble Lounge. Couple hundred people at least trying to listen to the video. Kids screaming, running around. If you were a first-timer, good luck hearing any of the instructions. Crew did nothing. But the piece de resistance - mother decides to change her baby's diaper, ON THE FLOOR, just as 200+ people are trying to exit the lounge, carrying their lifejackets!! Never occurred to her I guess, to take her child back to the cabin to do that. The drill was over, and here we were, 200 people trying to get by this lady and avoid stepping on her, her child, her child's diaper, get by the stroller, etc while Dad and another sibling stood by and watched. Not to mention the hygiene issues for all concerned. The mind boggles............

[sp2]

I agree. The cruise lines are very clear about their pool policies regarding ANY kind of diaper. We cruised with my one-year old great niece and knew she would not be allowed in any of the pools, even with a swim diaper. It is sad that there are a few who always choose to blame someone else. The reason for NO diapers is pretty obvious to most. As is the reason for NO glass around the pool area. Cherie

 

Which reminds me of MORE incidents on Celebrity Solstice! Embarkation day, we are sitting in a hot-tub, a dad decides to join us in the hot tub with his diaper clad baby. We pointed to the sign which clearly states this is not allowed. The dad ignores us. Kid starts to splash water in our faces. We politely ask him to stop. Both father and child ignore us. Wonder where he gets it from?

 

Later on in the cruise, different dad brings two toddlers into the Solarium Pool (which we were reminded daily in the daily newsletter, is for 16+ only). Several cruisers brought it to his attention that the Solarium Pool is for adults only. He argues (no, make that yells) that that is not the case, its on other Celebrity ships but not this one. Makes a huge scene. Again, another situation not policed by any crew member.

 

I know these are Celebrity examples but they are fresh in my mind! Its a beautiful ship by the way; the positives far outweigh the negatives so I don't want you to get a bad impression.......Just wanted to weigh in with my comments.

[happy cruzer]

ooops wrong post

[cccole]

sp2 - the Solstice must be a beautiful ship. We have been on Celebrity once and really enjoyed the cruise (of course I have never been on a cruise I did not absolutely love.) I think it is unfortunate that passengers were put in the position of asking other passengers to respect the rules. It would be nice if there was a member of the crew (an enforcer) for this. I wouldn't want to be him or her but I also don't want to be in the position that you and others were in. Cherie

[CC Help Michell]

sp2 - the Solstice must be a beautiful ship. We have been on Celebrity once and really enjoyed the cruise (of course I have never been on a cruise I did not absolutely love.) I think it is unfortunate that passengers were put in the position of asking other passengers to respect the rules. It would be nice if there was a member of the crew (an enforcer) for this. I wouldn't want to be him or her but I also don't want to be in the position that you and others were in. Cherie

 

I agree -- but that's not exclusive to X. In fact, I've not sailed on ANY line where passengers flouting the rules actually were checked by the cruise ship's crew. Either fellow pax were expected to take care of it, or the behavior went unchecked. I still think officers/deck officials, whose compensation/promotion/livelihood aren't affected by kvetching from pax, should be the "deck police." As in -- "I'm sorry, sir/madam -- is little Johnny your son? You might not have been aware, but children in diapers aren't permitted in the hot tubs, for safety and sanitation reasons."

 

Yes, I live in a dream world! :D

[Sleepladypalmdesert]

OKAY....I loved my kids. I thought they were the best kids ever. But...I never expected other people to think they were as cute and adorable as I did. So, I went out of my way to ensure that my kids did not ruin any other persons dinner, night out, etc. Now that I am older and my kids are in college and/or just new to the work force. I just don't want my dinner or night our ruined by some other little cherubs poor temper or training. I say, IF you choose to bring your wee ones on board. Ensure they are not inflicting their exhaustion, attitudes, age on others. If you need to miss an activity because your child is out of sorts.....oh well, that's part of being a parent. I do understand that HAL has wonderful child/youth activities. Parents should take advantage of those.

 

One day I MAY take my college aged kids with me on a cruise. Once they can get up at a decent hour, dress appropriately for formal nights, partake of the "proper shave" ....I will spring for the cruise. Until then, just me and my DH.

[cccole]

MichellP - I was hoping that my suggestion of an "enforcer" would be a crew member not dependent on tips. But....they may get a lot of tips from passengers happy to have them intervene with unruly passengers of all ages.

 

I like your dream world. Sounds just fine to me!!!! Cherie

[kryos]

Granted, I am sure that there are plenty of helions on Disney too. The difference is, on Disney, we get to escape them without having to retreat to our cabins.

Actually, I would bet there are significantly less "helions" on Disney. Why? Simple. The kids are happy and well-occupied and hence don't "act out" as much. When they return to their parents in the evening, they are probably pretty tired out from a whole day of play and stimulating activities, and by the time they get through dinner and the show (shows are also kid-friendly) they are ready for nothing but their beds. So, they will not present a problem onboard for other passengers.

 

On HAL, sadly, the kids lack for much to do and my guess is they quickly get bored with the HAL style of shipboard life. Especially if the ports are not kid-friendly, or if there are a lot of sea days, the kids are bouncing off the walls. Add to that poor parenting, and you have a recipe for disaster.

 

I think before HAL markets actively to families, they need to make some decisions. If that is truly what they want to do (and risk turning away the market niche they have long cultivated), then they need to start installing some kid-friendly amenities ... and perhaps that explains this new "retreat" area they are putting in on some of the ships. Next will probably come the rock walls and ice skating rinks.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[michmike]

Just want to echo those comments about Disney -

 

We were on a 4 day cruise to the Bahamas Oct 07 as our best friend's son was getting married on board. I was DREADING being on a ship with that many kids as we, like many others here, typically schedule our cruises around school breaks and holidays and generally go for 10 days rather than 7.

 

At any rate, the kids were never an issue. They keep them so busy with activities you hardly ever see them. Plus the ship had a number of adult only areas that were well enforced. Even in the dining room we had no problems. I was very pleasantly surprised.

 

Now I will say that overall I wasn't impressed w/ Disney, our balcony cabin for those 4 days cost more than we typically pay for a balcony for 7 days on HAL.

 

The one bright spot was the Wonder's optional dining venue, Palo. Was outstanding and put the Pinnacle to shame.

 

But we came home w/ well rested backs as we didn't have to pitch any of the little tykes overboard.

[yarlenna]

A sort time ago, HAL was called the old-folks line. I wish that they would try to get that back again. As it is, ALL the large lines try to capture the same maket. There are lots of lines that feel the same. Why?

[sp2]

sp2 - the Solstice must be a beautiful ship. We have been on Celebrity once and really enjoyed the cruise (of course I have never been on a cruise I did not absolutely love.) I think it is unfortunate that passengers were put in the position of asking other passengers to respect the rules. It would be nice if there was a member of the crew (an enforcer) for this. I wouldn't want to be him or her but I also don't want to be in the position that you and others were in. Cherie

 

Solstice is a beautiful ship! It was our first time on Celebrity and overall it was a lovely cruise; but of course any cruise has its small moments of dissatisfaction which stick out in your mind. These types of incidents aren't unique to any one line I guess and we try to never let them hamper our overall enjoyment of the cruise.

 

We were considering a Christmas cruise next year but are worried about the number of (misbehaving) kids that would be on board that week, so I've been checking out the HAL board to see what this year's Christmas cruises were like. We have not cruised HAL since the Ryndam in 2000 but we saw the beautiful Eurodam and Noordam in Fort Lauderdale and thought maybe we should try one of them for next Christmas.

[lettienets]

.....I think before HAL markets actively to families, they need to make some decisions. If that is truly what they want to do (and risk turning away the market niche they have long cultivated), then they need to start installing some kid-friendly amenities ... and perhaps that explains this new "retreat" area they are putting in on some of the ships. Next will probably come the rock walls and ice skating rinks...

--rita

The new Hal ideas for the seaview pool area really upset me. I don't want a wading pool area. I love the seaview pool. If they put the wading pool there and splash pad the majority of us who loved the peace and quiet out there will be even more mad at the chair hogs by the inner pool by the Lido. :mad:At least other ship lines have more pools incl adult only pools.

[Duck Duck Cruise]

The passengers and crew should make note of which children (and/or their parents) have been misbehaving during the cruise and the cruise line should give each of the little darlings an espresso and a free puppy when they disembark.;)

[DizzyDallasDi]

The passengers and crew should make note of which children (and/or their parents) have been misbehaving during the cruise and the cruise line should give each of the little darlings an espresso and a free puppy when they disembark.;)

 

LOL !! :D I love your sense of humor!

[cccole]

sp2 - I hope you find a Christmas cruise that you like. There were a couple of GREAT reviews of HAL Christmas cruises. Some HAL friends of ours are just returning from their Oceania Christmas cruise and I'm interested to hear their review. One thing that they noticed in the roll call was the number of extended families on the cruise. They are a very outgoing couple and for them it meant that there would be fewer passengers venturing out of their family/friend group socially. After seeing pictures of the HAL Christmas cruises in the Caribbean I would sign up in an instant, if I could!!! I also love traveling with my family, which includes 4 teens, and HAL seemed like a nice line for all ages!! Cherie

[supercutie]

I've tried speaking up only to have the parent berate me in front of the child, saying how dare I talk to her child like that.

 

If you have a problem with how a child is acting you should talk to the adult not the child. I get furious when people try to correct my children's behavior, people have different opinions of how a child should be acting, and even if i agree with someone that my child isn't doing the right thing, that still isn't their place to talk to the child. It would be better to pretend you think the parent doesn't notice, and point it out to them, so they can say something to the child. Children aren't supposed to talk to strangers. Anytime someone has corrected my children's actions I always tell them to ignore the person loud enough for that person to hear.

[TammiJay]

I do not understand why parents let their children run around like hellions. I would be mortified if my children did that.

 

I just got off of a Christmas cruise and most of the kids I saw were very well behaved. Thank goodness.

[AlohaPride]

I just don't know why anyone would take children on a HAL cruise. Seriously. I know HAL has been marketing to families more and more, and I love HAL. We've been on nine HAL cruises (two Princess).

 

There are so many cruising choices out there, I wonder if the parents knew what kind of experience was awaiting (or not) their children? Bored children can be a PAIN and do things they wouldn't normally do.

 

Robin

 

I disagree. My husband and I are taking our 16 month old on HAL for the first time. We vacation as a family. When we decided to have children, we made a committment to take care of our children. In my opinion, this includes teaching them manners. We are prepared for keeping her occupied, we plan on never letting her out of our sight, we have a schedule ready to incorporate a late naptime in order to make our 8pm dining time, and she's potty trained in her bathing suit (almost completely at home). We love HAL and aren't ready to look at booking with another line. Unfortunately, we know Disney is in our future once or twice.

 

Its actually comments like yours that make me nervous to book with HAL at all. I didn't take it as an offense. Its just that some people DO look at children like they are carriers of the plague. When someone is studying to be a doctor, they work through real life situations before they are ready to go out on their own. When someone is learning to skydive, they must take 3 tandem jumps before going out on their own. When a child learns manners at home, its real life situations that test what has been taught. Our daughter is young, but we don't believe any age is too young to grow accustomed to different situations.

 

There is no excuse for poor parenting.

 

 

I believe that threads like this, when pointing out the child's ill behavior should focus ALL blame on the parents. I only hope that my parenting can live up to the CC expectations. :o

 

 

Kids who know how to act, who have parents who set that expectation & give consequences for bad behavior will have no trouble on a HAL cruise in my opinion. The obnoxious bratty future criminals will always be noticed on a HAL ship - they stand out because they do NOT belong there. Sadly, their parents usually don't know or don't care (or both).

 

This is EXACTLY how I feel. We've taken our daughter, from the age of 3 months, to very exclusive high-end dining establishments. We've never had a problem with her.

 

It is sad that I feel that I have to defend my choice to take my daughter on a cruise because of the bad behavior of other parents and their children. :(

[kryos]

If you have a problem with how a child is acting you should talk to the adult not the child. I get furious when people try to correct my children's behavior, people have different opinions of how a child should be acting, and even if i agree with someone that my child isn't doing the right thing, that still isn't their place to talk to the child.

Amen!

 

I agree with you 110%.

 

I am not a parent, but I can well imagine that if I was, and someone took it upon themselves to do MY job and correct my child, I would probably be inclined ... just for spite ... to actually encourage my child to annoy them even more.

 

I know that sounds wrong ... and agreed, it is ... but when it comes to one's children, folks can get pretty possessive, and with good reason.

 

Leave it to the parent to correct his or her own child. Approach the parent diplomatically when something their child is doing happens to annoy you, and let the parent handle it. I think you'll find the results far more satisfactory that way.

 

Also, lighten up. Realize that children will be children and something the child is doing may annoy you, but it may not in actuality be wrong. It's just annoying you. Don't expect a parent to force their child to just sit quietly because you happen to be annoyed that the child is making noise. The child is just being a child and what she is actually doing may just be something that children normally do ... such as squeal and yell while playing at the pool. If it bothers you so much, well ... it may just be that you have to either leave or deal with it. But if the kid is really doing something wrong ... short of it being something very unsafe that needs immediate correction, say a word to the parent and then let the parent handle it.

 

That's just my humble opinion anyway.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[Teresa Price]

Happy New Year everyone,

 

now don't get me started! I am a teacher and love children but - I hate this 'style' of parenting known in our school as 'free range' - it seems to be taking over everywhere. Choice seems to be everything and they have to be happy at all costs. I am also a parent and know the strains that family holidays can bring.

 

On our last HAL cruise I used to step in front of children who were running in the Lido. I have to bite my tongue in the pool. But I'm stuck with school holidays so there you go. P & O in the UK have an adults only ship as part of their fleet. HAL could do the same - not as big a ship as Eurodam of course.

 

It is one of the reasons that we always go for a balcony cabin - a little bit of peace of our own!

cheers and happy cruising for 2009 [we have a btb 24 nighter booked yipeeee]

Teresa