There will be problems

[cruiseyguy]

Wripro-You keep throwing out his red herring--that if Seabourn lowers its prices its quality will suffer, therefor we must continue to pay higher prices. But you have no idea (I assume) how much elasticity is in their pricing nor what their "net" is. You argue that their prices are justified by higher costs but 1) you don't know what their costs are 2) in any event, "costs" have dropped significantly in the last few months. Finally, arguing that customers must deny their own common sense and ignore the market and economy around them, so as to help Seabourn preserve its "standards" really is a non-starter for many people.

[CruisinMatt]

Good point wripro, can anyone give any examples of how they Seabourn should be discounting?

[cruiseyguy]

Matt-As noted earlier Regent is giving unlimited free excursions on all 2010 cruises. Seabourn is eliminating its sole "free" excursion. So there's one way they can "discount." They can reinstate the 110% single supplements--those were successful in the past in helping keep the ships full. They can revise their yet-to -be released 2010 fares to match other cruise lines in the same luxury category. They can revise their Odyssey fares to match those of Silversea's new ship Spirit. Any other ideas out there?

[fivestar]

Just my point of view:-

 

There are Seabourn clients out there like myself that would rather save for a longer period of time to afford a 14 day Seabourn vacation than take four cruises on other ships that don't offer the service, pampering and all the other little things I enjoy so much about Seabourn.

 

The secret to great cruising is to choose a ship that matches your needs whether it be cost, itinerary, size of ship and what you want to get out of it. If the ship does not add up to your needs then choose another one.

 

I must admit I am amazed that Seabourn has taken away their fabulous Seabourn Experiences and one poster mentioned on here that they could do away with the Ko Kood Experience which I was totally floored after reading this. Who wouldn't enjoy a private beach, caviar & champagne in the surf, drinks to your sun lounge, plenty of shade, music, laughs good fun with other passengers and a beach bbq? Oh and almost forgot the bannana boat ride, even if you don't take the adventure on one of these at least you can have a laugh watching others take the plunge! So glad this is still on the Seabourn Experience list and worth every cent.:)

[wripro]

I have heard nothing about Seabourn eliminating the beach experience. In fact, I'll be on the Spirit for 22 day in February/March and the Ko Kood experience is one I am very much looking forward to.

 

Seabourn now has a 60% off sale on many 7 day Med cruises so they are trying to adjust. There are some longer cruises in April with similar discounts. My point is that we can't expect them to cut their profits to the bone or it won't be worth it for them to stay in business. And if anyone is not happy with the price points they have options. That's why there are so many cruise lines out there.

 

As for Regent's free shore excursions I would not want to be the head of that department on one of their ships when there is more demand than supply for certain excursions. Nor would I want to go on the packed buses I bet they will need to accommodate all those who book. I admit it's a good way to bring down the cost of the cruise but not for me since I prefer taking my own private excursions. I like to control my own agenda. So those free excursions mean nothing to me. This is jmo. For others it may be a Godsend.

[CruisePhan]

I'm with Wripro... if you want Holland America prices, you can have Holland America service. Having just returned from a Regent cruise (and I was a big Radisson fan), I will take Seabourn's fares with it's amazing service and leave Regent's free excursions (and service) for others.

[CASHIPman]

Wripro-You keep throwing out his red herring--that if Seabourn lowers its prices its quality will suffer, therefor we must continue to pay higher prices. But you have no idea (I assume) how much elasticity is in their pricing nor what their "net" is. You argue that their prices are justified by higher costs but 1) you don't know what their costs are 2) in any event, "costs" have dropped significantly in the last few months. Finally, arguing that customers must deny their own common sense and ignore the market and economy around them, so as to help Seabourn preserve its "standards" really is a non-starter for many people.

 

I don't see any "red herrings".

I don't think any of us (except "bgood"?) know what the profit margin is however I'd pretty confident in saying that 50% occupancy probably isn't profitable. In a discussion with a high-ranking Carnival employee a few years ago he said that SB was (at that time) profitable but it did not make a huge profit.

Costs may have dropped, but I doubt they've dropped to the pre-economic crisis levels yet the revenue has most certainly dropped. Look at airlines in N. America...fares have dropped to increase loadfactor, but with those fare reductions have come service reductions. The reduction in income must be offset by something.

Seabourn has some choices to make:

 

• Reduce capacity and thereby costs?
  
• Reduce fares and hope that the increased pax count actually increases revenue?
  
• Reduce fares and offset the reductions by a reduction in service?
  
• Any combination thereof?
  

Who knows but something has to give or any elasticity will "snap" and bye-bye Seabourn. I'm glad I don't work in SB's yield management unit!

 

I would love it if I could get SB or any lux line for USD100.00 day with high levels of service and a shipload of interesting adults. But I don't think that's gonna happen.

[cands]

 

I would love it if I could get SB or any lux line for USD100.00 day with high levels of service and a shipload of interesting adults. But I don't think that's gonna happen.

 

Maybe at USD300.00 per day? Now that would be appealing:)

[cruiseyguy]

Only two years ago I was able to take a Grand Voyage (all of which were discounted then at 50%) for $356 per day as a single.

[westmount]

My first Seabourn cruise was three years ago, Rome to Istanbul for about $12000 for 14 days plus excursions, and SA was 27k for 24 days, within the level of a 5 star resort on the islands. The new ship is 30 to 40k for 23 days, so it's one thing to have a bigger ship, but another to charge 50% more because its new. The answer is to take a couple of the older ships off line once the first two are on the water, and my guess is that is the plan.

westmount

[johnnycruise]

The answer is to take a couple of the older ships off line once the first two are on the water, and my guess is that is the plan.

westmount

 

I agree - one or two of the triplets will be unloaded very soon, but I would think one might be kept to do the destinations unreachable by the larger ships (Corinth Canal, Prickly Pear Island, Tower Bridge, etc.) and to cater to the "smaller is better" Seabourn following.

[Harvey2442]

Isn't the real truth that historically Seabourn has generally been underpriced compared to Silversea. Crystal, SeaDream and Hebridean Island when all the discounts are taken into account. Whilst much depends on personal taste to travel in grill class of QM2 and QV starts at £300/day with extras for tipping and drinks and query not as good service you can generaaly travel on Seabourn in the past for less. The fares on the new ships have to increase to reflect new build costs compared to inherited written down values of the present triplets.

 

The timing of the decision to expand the fleet was with hindsight not good but Seabourn will have to take the long view that the economy over the life of the new ships will recover.

 

What Seabourn cannot or should not do in the present economy is to cut or reduce what Seabourn stands for in terms of service, quality or the generally inclusive nature of the product. To the extent they do it will only encourage Seabourn travllers to try other discounted products at this time and they may not return. The timing of the increase in the number of days for a free cruise, the culling of Seabourn experiences during the currency of a brochure are exeamples in my view of very poor commercial decisions. Keep the standards and the product and ride out the storm.

[wripro]

I agree completely with CASHIPman. There are only so many choices a business like SB can make. If they choose to cur service in order to lower prices they will no longer be the same product and thereby lose a loyal customer base.

 

If one looks closely now one can find real bargains on SB. Will the prices be the same as RCI or HA or Carnival? NO! But even when you shop at Neiman Marcus during "last call" you will still pay more than shopping at Target. To me it's not about price, it's about value.

[westmount]

We are all amateur accountants. I'm sure SB has twenty people sitting at big computers figuring out yields, ratios, schedules, foreign exchange, Obama, the Dow, and probably know exactly what they need to charge at exactly the right time to fill up the boats. I just hope they call people to inform them of the lower prices for those who booked already, something I'm not so sure they actually practice. The Odysess was prebooked by alot of people a year ago already, and I wonder if they will offer deals to those that put down 20% already. My deposit is more than most cruises, so that will be the big question. I hope they do the right thing.

 

Westmount

[Rocchi]

Seabourn, Seadream, Silversea have to be about product a lot more than just price.

[wripro]

Westmount,

 

The best way to make sure you know about any subsequent discounts is to have a good TA who will be on the lookout. It is his/her job to find out those things and take advantage of them for you.

[westmount]

It was my agent who sent me the fax about the 60% one week special. My only question was about fairness, not value, and whether Seabourn would honour guarentee prices. While I presume they only lower prices 90 days in advance after they have payment from everyone else, I presume now is the best time to be a flexible last minute traveler on the high seas, Seabourn included. For $500 I wouldn't care, but for $5k or $10k, which is very possible on the Odysess I want protection if possible.

[Coastside]

Like Westmount, I'm amused at everyone acting like business analysts.

I'm one of those customers Fivestar refers to: if prices go up, I'll just save longer to afford a top-quality vacation rather than settle for a lesser cruise line.

Last August I booked 14 days on the Legend February 2010.

I also booked Silversea's Prince Albert II (new expedition ship) for the Austral Islands June 2009. Then

Silversea cancelled that cruise--and all their South Pacific expeditions--to bring the Prince Albert II back to the Arctic.

So without a 2009 trip planned, first I thought I'd make it a year of domestic travel. Then last month I received Seabourn's brochure advertising Inaugural Celebration Savings. That, plus a 25% solo supplement enticed me to book 7 days aboard the Spirit in August 2009.

Interesting: I also received an oversized postcard mailing from Silversea advertising reduced solo supplements (10 and 25 percent) for Venetian Society members only (past Silversea travelers) on select 2009 cruises.