question abbout tipping!!!

[falken]

you are talking apples and organges and you know it: salaried workers and hourly have always and will always be different...

 

Nita

 

Okay... i'll take off cruise director and captain, the rest of the employees I mentioned are probably not salary. You shouldn't feel the need to tip all the "behind the scenes" people, that is REALLY stretching the point. Making it required in any fashion is just silly.

 

When you go to a land based restraunt do you run around tipping the bus boy, the line cooks, the janitor, the dish washer, the hostess, and everyone else that helped you have a nice dinner?

No, you tip the server you actually interacted with based on the level of service you feel you obtained.

 

Its like going to target and when you check out they say, "Your total today is $235, that includes sales tax and 18% gratuity... you see, we make the stock people, cashiers, and janitoral staff tipped employees. We then add the service charge to your bill so they can be properly compensated.... after all, without all of those people you wouldn't have had much of a shopping experience!"

[Dukegirl5577]

When you go to a land based restraunt do you run around tipping the bus boy, the line cooks, the janitor, the dish washer, the hostess, and everyone else that helped you have a nice dinner?

No, you tip the server you actually interacted with based on the level of service you feel you obtained.

 

And the server who you tip in a restaurant splits that tip with the bus boy, hostess, dish washer, etc.

[chrisbd1]

I know I've already had my knuckles rapped for bringing this up, but why should it cost more? I'm an Ncl fan and would prefer to travel on this line, but it is costing me less on my Oct cruise, without any service charge or 15% drinks price, for a slightly longer cruise with P&O. Without going into the rights or wrongs of tipping, how do so many cruise lines run excellent cruises at low prices, and keep their staff, who we're supposed to be paying extra for make-up wages? Nor is it just P&O-it's Fred Olsen, Thomsons and Saga. There just seems to be something fishy about the whole argument of making up staff wages.-jocap

 

My cost to fly to the UK and the exchange rate would negate the service fee savings :)

[falken]

And the server who you tip in a restaurant splits that tip with the bus boy, hostess, dish washer, etc.

 

And then they report all those tips to the IRS, and sunshine and rainbows fall from the sky.

[*Wink*]

And the server who you tip in a restaurant splits that tip with the bus boy, hostess, dish washer, etc.

Exactly. It just goes to show you how little some people know about how the tipping procedure operates. The service charge is in place because that's how some of these employees are paid. The price can come out when you book or when you board.

 

Also, I worked for 10 years as a tipped employee in the state of Kansas. During that time, I had to report 10% of my sales to be taxed.

[jocap]

I thought that P&O left envelopes for tips in your cabin towards the end of the cruise. Not true?

Oh yes, of course all the ships give advice on what is a sensible tip to give, and leave envelopes and booklets. After that it's up to you. My point is not about the rules and regs. of tipping, but why people believe that the crew will not work when they so obviously do in the rest of the world. Naturally, crew will tell us that they can't manage without the tips-who wouldn't? Just a small illustration-I live at the heart of the UK nuclear industry, part of which has been bought by the USA. recently. The great joke is the amount of tips that people will now be receiving in the service industries. This includes my friends in the hotel trade who manage to live year round on the minimum wage and minimum tips of the UK punters-the usual is £2 per day in a "pub" type room. How has it come about that we now believe so strongly that the cruise industry will fold and die without this charge? Carnival must be more in touch with the ways of nations than the rest of us, and manage to run P&O this way-and OV. I still smell a fish!!-jocap.

[*Wink*]

Oh yes, of course all the ships give advice on what is a sensible tip to give, and leave envelopes and booklets. After that it's up to you. My point is not about the rules and regs. of tipping, but why people believe that the crew will not work when they so obviously do in the rest of the world. Naturally, crew will tell us that they can't manage without the tips-who wouldn't? Just a small illustration-I live at the heart of the UK nuclear industry, part of which has been bought by the USA. recently. The great joke is the amount of tips that people will now be receiving in the service industries. This includes my friends in the hotel trade who manage to live year round on the minimum wage and minimum tips of the UK punters-the usual is £2 per day in a "pub" type room. How has it come about that we now believe so strongly that the cruise industry will fold and die without this charge? Carnival must be more in touch with the ways of nations than the rest of us, and manage to run P&O this way-and OV. I still smell a fish!!-jocap.

So you're suggesting that tipped employees no longer receive tips? AND that they would still work on the small salary they do receive because they'd have no choice since they come from poorer countries?

I'd love to read your thoughts on slavery.

[falken]

So you're suggesting that tipped employees no longer receive tips? AND that they would still work on the small salary they do receive because they'd have no choice since they come from poorer countries?

I'd love to read your thoughts on slavery.

 

Slavery is forcing someone to work. If your job pays you $1/hr, you can either work for that $1 or you can quit. If no one will work for $1, then they will have to pay $2, and so on.

 

I wouldn't work for $40/hr, does that mean that if someone offered to pay me $40 without tips they are being bad people? Do you think they would pay more than $40/hr if they could find someone that could do as good of a job for less?

 

If you pay $1/hr and find good employees for that wage, then that is the market rate for the job in question. The good employees are not going to work for that, so you will need to pay more if you want decent help.

[jocap]

So you're suggesting that tipped employees no longer receive tips? AND that they would still work on the small salary they do receive because they'd have no choice since they come from poorer countries?

I'd love to read your thoughts on slavery.

Thank you for replying. I have never once given my views on what I give, nor would it be my concern what others tip. I am trying to have a necessary discussion about the belief that without tips, people cannot live, and, if that is so, what are the ethics and facts behind this? Where are the salary figures published? Where are the documents which prove this? In which account are my prepaid tips and to whom does the interest go, from Dec. to Feb? This is a different discussion as whether or not to tip, which is not my point per se. I'm sorry if I gave the impression that I believe in exploiting people. In your reply you mention, for instance: "they would still work on the small salary they do receive.." I do not know what that small salary is. I do not know whether they have to pay for accommodation, nor whether there are any perks with the job. It is a common belief that ship's crew are not paid the minimum wage because of the ship's registration. What, then is the minimum wage in Bermuda? or where-ever? If we knew for certain that the large companies were exploiting people from the third world, then we would be taking up cudgels against the companies, and not sailing with them. Sorry if you feel ruffled by my comments.-jocap.

[Arwenmark]

Whatever happened to freestyling tipping. I don't understand.

 

Perhaps if you think of the automatic included charge as a service charge which is what it is and not tips. Tips are still up to you ON TOP OF THE SERVICE CHARGE.

 

As stated you have no clue of the work going on behind the scenes for you to enjoy your cruise. granted it should be just part of the fare and not broken out so people can't complain about it, then the fares would just go up and that's that. But they don't yet do it that way.

 

If you were paying a bill for the meals you are willing to tip for say dinner in the dining room if you bought the same dinner in a restaraunt of similiar quality and ambiance, not appleby's

bill for two of you would at least 50 to 100 tip at 15% would be $7.50 to $15 for ONE MEAL

cost of breakfast? lunch? tips for same?

How much do you tip hotel chambermaids? [i know the answer to that but you should be tipping about $2 pp a day for hotel chambermaids] so through that into the mix this does not include anyone else working to have food in buffet or clean tables in buffet etc.

 

people can gripe all theywant but the service fee is there for a very good and valid reason and the harder they make it for them to remove any of it without appearing to all and sundry as the huge cheapskates they are the better.

[newmexicoNita]

Perhaps if you think of the automatic included charge as a service charge which is what it is and not tips. Tips are still up to you ON TOP OF THE SERVICE CHARGE.

 

As stated you have no clue of the work going on behind the scenes for you to enjoy your cruise. granted it should be just part of the fare and not broken out so people can't complain about it, then the fares would just go up and that's that. But they don't yet do it that way.

 

If you were paying a bill for the meals you are willing to tip for say dinner in the dining room if you bought the same dinner in a restaraunt of similiar quality and ambiance, not appleby's

bill for two of you would at least 50 to 100 tip at 15% would be $7.50 to $15 for ONE MEAL

cost of breakfast? lunch? tips for same?

How much do you tip hotel chambermaids? [i know the answer to that but you should be tipping about $2 pp a day for hotel chambermaids] so through that into the mix this does not include anyone else working to have food in buffet or clean tables in buffet etc.

 

people can gripe all theywant but the service fee is there for a very good and valid reason and the harder they make it for them to remove any of it without appearing to all and sundry as the huge cheapskates they are the better.

 

why can't more people see it the way you do???

 

Nita

[*Wink*]

Thank you for replying. I have never once given my views on what I give, nor would it be my concern what others tip. I am trying to have a necessary discussion about the belief that without tips, people cannot live, and, if that is so, what are the ethics and facts behind this? Where are the salary figures published? Where are the documents which prove this? In which account are my prepaid tips and to whom does the interest go, from Dec. to Feb? This is a different discussion as whether or not to tip, which is not my point per se. I'm sorry if I gave the impression that I believe in exploiting people. In your reply you mention, for instance: "they would still work on the small salary they do receive.." I do not know what that small salary is. I do not know whether they have to pay for accommodation, nor whether there are any perks with the job. It is a common belief that ship's crew are not paid the minimum wage because of the ship's registration. What, then is the minimum wage in Bermuda? or where-ever? If we knew for certain that the large companies were exploiting people from the third world, then we would be taking up cudgels against the companies, and not sailing with them. Sorry if you feel ruffled by my comments.-jocap.

Thank you jocap :). I was ruffled. My interpretation of your earlier post was that you felt it was OK to exploit since "someone" will do a job for very little money. The fact is, "someone" will. However, that doesn't make it right in my eyes.

 

Some would disagree.

 

I happen to disagree with Falken. I believe someone will work for $1 an hour. Why? Because there are many people out there who aren't making even that. You'd be surprised how well an employee will work for a $1 when faced with the alternative.

 

My opinion on tipping is, I don't care how these people make their money. Whether it be through tips or through salary. I'd be embarrassed to cruise if I knew the person cleaning my toilet wasn't being paid handsomely. But that's just me. :)

[jocap]

Many thanks, A.W. I'm sure we actually have the same beliefs when it comes down to it. Much of my career was spent in teaching children recently arrived from Eastern nations, often from distressing backgrounds-and yes, I saw exploitation. More recently, we had the terrible situation of 20 Chinese nationals being drowned of the coast just here-told to fish for cockles for pennies, but not told about the massive tides we have. So I will chase exploitation whenever I find it. Many kind regards to you and yours, and happy cruising-Jo.

[*Wink*]

Thank you, Jo.. Happy Sails!

[PangeanSir]

I just love these tipping threads. It's a thrill a minute. Not only do we get to witness a clash of cultures, debate over the US tax code, and discussion of unruly children, but this time we even got a debate on slavery. Wow.

 

Coming from an North American perspective, having cruised on several other lines, and having a rough understanding of the economics of wage rates on the non-US flagged ships, I don't have any complaints about the increase from $10 to $12 per person per day. The service charges had been pegged at $10 per person per day for several years while other costs have gone up dramatically. We have almost always tipped more over and above the actual service charge and have always tipped those who are not in the regular tip pool (butlers, concierge, and Kid's Crew). In my mind the cost of the service (cruise fare, service charge, and additional tips) is still a bargain.

 

My only quibble is the increase in the amount for children. I don't have a problem if the increase applied only to the 1st and 2nd person in a room, but the increase from $5 to $12 per person when those persons are the 3rd and 4th in a room (the room steward will have to clean the shower the same number of times whether 1 or 4 people take a shower in the morning) seems a bit steep in one step, especially when we will still be tipping the Kid's Crew.

 

P.

[falken]

I don't have any complaints about the increase from $10 to $12 per person per day. The service charges had been pegged at $10 per person per day for several years while other costs have gone up dramatically..

 

Of course, in the current climate people are lucky to get a 2% increase in salary per year. So a 20% increase in pay isn't so bad.

[Don Haynes]

Of course, in the current climate people are lucky to get a 2% increase in salary per year. So a 20% increase in pay isn't so bad.

 

Its been $10 per person per day for twenty years. Your one year 20% increase is only a 1% increase when you figure in all those years.

 

Have you recieved a cost of living wage within the last twenty years?

 

TALK ABOUT BEING CHEAP! You are the worst Scrooge ever!

[falken]

Its been $10 per person per day for twenty years. Your one year 20% increase is only a 1% increase when you figure in all those years.

 

Have you recieved a cost of living wage within the last twenty years?

 

TALK ABOUT BEING CHEAP! You are the worst Scrooge ever!

 

Here are the tipping guidlines from 2001:

Cabin Steward--$3 per guest, per day

Waiter--$3 per guest per day

Busboy--$1.50 per guest per day.

Tipping your Maitre D' and Head Waiter is at your discretion.

So we are at $7.50 per day, must have went down from 12 years prior to that since it was $10/day 20 years ago.

I think you would also be hard pressed to find someone that has worked at NCL for the past 20 years making the same base pay they did when they started. They should really do a better job of negotiating their new contracts or looking for a different job.

[smeyer418]

Here are the tipping guidlines from 2001:

Cabin Steward--$3 per guest, per day

Waiter--$3 per guest per day

Busboy--$1.50 per guest per day.

Tipping your Maitre D' and Head Waiter is at your discretion.

 

So we are at $7.50 per day, must have went down from 12 years prior to that since it was $10/day 20 years ago.

 

I think you would also be hard pressed to find someone that has worked at NCL for the past 20 years making the same base pay they did when they started. They should really do a better job of negotiating their new contracts or looking for a different job.

 

were these NCL guidelines? I have been cruising since before 2001 and the $10.00 suggested amount has always been the "standard for NCL". It varied by cruise lines but has always been about the same $10 on most lines leaving from the US. I do understand that some overseas were less...

 

Cunard's current guideline is $11.50 and some vary by pounds etc...

[lomo4]

I will have a hard time paying $72 a day on tips!!! I am going with my dh and 4 young children as part of a family reunion cruise. It is a once and a lifetime event for us and it is a huge expense for us. I was more than willing to pay the $40 a day charge that we were expected to, but it is absurd to think we have it in our budget to pay this extra fee.

 

We typically take a vacation to Disney every year and this cruise is costing us 4 times the price of a week at Disney. Not to mention the fact that the price keeps going down and we are locked in at this higher rate. The entire process has soured me from taking a cruise again. Who knows maybe I will love it, but right now I am not too happy with the way things are going. :mad:

[PangeanSir]

I will have a hard time paying $72 a day on tips!!! I am going with my dh and 4 young children as part of a family reunion cruise. It is a once and a lifetime event for us and it is a huge expense for us. I was more than willing to pay the $40 a day charge that we were expected to, but it is absurd to think we have it in our budget to pay this extra fee.

 

We typically take a vacation to Disney every year and this cruise is costing us 4 times the price of a week at Disney. Not to mention the fact that the price keeps going down and we are locked in at this higher rate. The entire process has soured me from taking a cruise again. Who knows maybe I will love it, but right now I am not too happy with the way things are going. :mad:

 

An extra $32 a day is a lot of money, but keep in mind the total cost of the holiday. Our next cruise with kids isn't for another year, but the increase in service fees did give us pause. Are you sure that you're locked in to the current price?

 

Since originally booking our 9-day cruise, the cruise fare for 3rd and 4th passengers has gone down by $100. So even with the increase in service charges we'll still be $74 to the good (and we thought the original pricing was fair). If the cruise is far enough out, watch the pricing fluctuations or OBC promotions and you might offset most, if not all, of the additional charges. Alternatively, you can look at other cost factors where you can save ($32 is approximately the cost of a bottle of wine).

 

P.

[kyshel]

Here are the tipping guidlines from 2001:

Cabin Steward--$3 per guest, per day

Waiter--$3 per guest per day

Busboy--$1.50 per guest per day.

Tipping your Maitre D' and Head Waiter is at your discretion.

 

So we are at $7.50 per day, must have went down from 12 years prior to that since it was $10/day 20 years ago.

 

I think you would also be hard pressed to find someone that has worked at NCL for the past 20 years making the same base pay they did when they started. They should really do a better job of negotiating their new contracts or looking for a different job.

 

Thank you for putting the previous poster, Don Haynes, in his place--giving incorretc information is detrimental to these boards and the spirit inwhich they are provided. The "mandatory" tipping has only been recent and those nubers were wrong- I see the difference in service from my last cruise on the Norway to the recent one on the Sky.

 

I would prefer the guest-determined system but it is not policy right now.

[G-Funk]

I will have a hard time paying $72 a day on tips!!! I am going with my dh and 4 young children as part of a family reunion cruise. It is a once and a lifetime event for us and it is a huge expense for us. I was more than willing to pay the $40 a day charge that we were expected to, but it is absurd to think we have it in our budget to pay this extra fee.

 

We typically take a vacation to Disney every year and this cruise is costing us 4 times the price of a week at Disney. Not to mention the fact that the price keeps going down and we are locked in at this higher rate. The entire process has soured me from taking a cruise again. Who knows maybe I will love it, but right now I am not too happy with the way things are going. :mad:

 

Don't worry about the tipping fanatics on here. Tip what you are comfortable with and you feel is fair to the staff - all of us with kids would agree that $72/day is ridiculous.

 

We've done Disney about 10 times and a couple of Disney cruises, and I think you will like the cruise experience as a good balanced vacation

[ohioNCLcruiser]

Don't worry about the tipping fanatics on here. Tip what you are comfortable with and you feel is fair to the staff - all of us with kids would agree that $72/day is ridiculous.

 

We've done Disney about 10 times and a couple of Disney cruises, and I think you will like the cruise experience as a good balanced vacation

 

Question for you..

 

if you don't agree with a companies policies why book with them? Why not chose a different line?

 

If you don't do the service charge any cash tips you give get turned into the tip pool. Whats the point of doing it your way then?

[G-Funk]

Question for you..

 

if you don't agree with a companies policies why book with them? Why not chose a different line?

 

If you don't do the service charge any cash tips you give get turned into the tip pool. Whats the point of doing it your way then?

 

When I booked with them, their policy was $10/day for adults and $5/day for children. When they changed it to $12/day per person at the beginning of January (representing a more than 71% increase, there are 2 adults and 3 kids in my party):

 

1. They didn't ask me my opinion;

2. They didn't offer to refund the cost of the cruise

 

I happen to think the $7,200 I paid for the cruise covers a bit of labor.

 

I have to laugh when the lady mentions that this vacation is already costing 4 times what their normal one does, and the best advice to her is to think about the incremental $32/day in the context of the entire cost of the vacation. Great advice - hence my comment about the tipping fanatics.