Open Jaw / Frequent Flier Mile Predicament (oh MEH!)

[leia2107]

FWIW, this is my first post here. :)

 

Nothing like jumping right in with a book.

 

 

 

So, after losing a good portion of our retirement investments I decide that what we really need is a mental holiday from all this economic crisis stress.

 

But since I'm an early retiree (stopped working in my mid-forties) and my husband will now be chained to his desk longer than we planned :mad: I'm trying to save every penny.

 

This was a plan made on a whim triggered by a *****.com email.

 

It went from a Carnival balcony (Spirit - Vancouver RT) to a Holland (Vancouver RT) to a Sapphire Princess (Vancouver to Whittier).

 

I finally got over my aversion to a long flight back to LA (from Anchorage), booked a great priced mini-suite on Princess and planned to pay for a majority of it with Pay with Points (American Express). So far, so (good) frugal. I had checked the Northwest Airlines site TWICE and did a run-through of mileage reward points (before booking) and was thrilled to find that we could use 25,000 miles each to get to Vancouver and then back from Anchorage. As an aside, we have a lot of points all over the place and since I figure the next thing credit card companies will slash will be miles/points programs I want to use them before we lose them.

 

I KNEW IT WAS ALL TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE. THERE IS NO FREE LUNCH. THERE IS NO FREE VACATION.

 

First, the agent from American Express (whose name I didn't write down - grrrrrr) said our points were worth $1,700. Hallelujah! This was great news and was my justification for planning the cruise in the first place.

 

Yesterday (after a weekend of OCD research into cruises/ports/prices) I book with Princess, then call AMEX to have them take over the reservation. I get connected to a whose accent I could barely understand and find out there's no record of the Carnival hold (which I wanted to cancel) and no record of who held it for us. TO MAKE MATTERS WORSE - the new agent - the one I could barely understand - says the miles are worth $1,200 versus $1,700.

 

(weeping, at least in my mind)

 

THEN, she tells me she can't imagine someone not writing down the name of the person they had spoken with - LOL! Chastised by an AMEX agent.

 

After she connects me to a Rapid Rewards "consultant" who patiently tells me I am out of my mind and have no other option than to gladly accept a sum $500 less than I was told 3 days before, I tell him I have got to be able to understand my travel agent for this cruise. The world has gone crazy enough without having to say "pardon me?" after every five word exchange. I snarkily tell him that I've been an "American" Express member for years and it's now become a rare occurrence to ever find an agent who speaks intelligible English.

 

I rarely go off the politically correct rails but after being hit with the $500 shocker and not being able to understand the accent of the person delivering the grim news, I admit - I was a bit testy.

 

WOULDN'T YOU KNOW . . . after 15 minutes of wrangling with the Rapid Rewards consultant and giving him my what for about difficult to understand AMEX travel agents SHE PIPES IN ON THE CONVERSATION. I had no idea she was still lurking in the shadows of the call from hell.

 

So now, not only do I feel like I've been ripped off for $500 in fifteen minutes time but I also feel like politically incorrect jerk. (almost weeping and now gnashing teeth as well, I would have been wringing my hands but had to use one of them to clench the receiver).

 

To add insult to injury - a few hours I read an article about AMEX instituting a program to pay certain customers $300 to close their accounts. This just added fuel to my conspiracy fire that award points will soon be a thing of the past. We pay off our cards every month and they probably hate no-interest customers like us who accumulate 170,000 points over the years.

 

I hang up with them after coming to the conclusion that I can have my husband transfer 17,000 points from another AMEX card into the kitty - but it has to wait until HE can make the transaction (oh the hoops one must jump through when living on the cheap).

 

Since I've booked the cruise straddling Memorial Day on one end I realize I better get the frequent flier miles situated before that ends up a disappointment. All day long I'm running the search to make sure the flights are still available. They are. I feel blessed. But not for long.

 

Oh, and in the mean time - Delta and NWA have merged. The flights are 100,000 points each in Delta miles! In NWA miles, 25,000 points. So, I have to transfer all the Delta points into the NWA points kitty. So many kitties, so little time.

 

As I'm licking my AMEX wounds I finish the point transfer and start to book the flight. My heart is beating just typing this! I get to the end - the "complete booking" button. I breathe a sigh of relief. At least the flight part has worked.

 

But no!

 

Error notice.

 

Call airline directly.

 

WHAT? This has NEVER happened before.

 

I call NW. The agent - very nice/helpful - runs through the same exercise. Same thing. She, too, is baffled. She puts me on an agonizing hold and comes back to say IT WON'T WORK BECAUSE IT'S AN OPEN JAW FLIGHT.

 

HUH?

 

Yes, my jaw was wide open but I couldn't even begin to get my head around what she was talking about until I looked up the term on the internet after the phone call ended.

 

The distance from LAX or Burbank to Vancouver is LESS than the distance we WOULDN'T have been flying (cruise from Vancouver to Anchorage) which makes it an open jaw.

 

The cheapest part/shortest part of the flight (LA to Vancouver) is the problem - not the longer more expensive part - LOL! It's funny in a tear your hair out kind of way.

 

The agent suggested we drive 300 miles away from LA and then fly to Vancouver. 300 miles away is somewhere in Mexico. Or the Pacific. Or Arizona. Or on the other end, Edmonton - which is 500 miles from Vancouver.

 

Oh, and frequent flier miles cannot be used for one-way tickets. Of course.

 

Even my mensa-boy husband had a hard time wrapping his brain around this one. He's the one who said "ask the people on that new board you joined." Surely this has come up before . . . there are many cruises that leave from one place and end up in another.

 

Maybe it's collusion between the airlines and the cruise companies (I'm being paranoid I'm sure because the problem is apparently in the Vancouver to LA distance so maybe it's just one more DOWNFALL of living in the state of California - insert maniacal laughter here).

 

If anyone has gotten to the end of this long and boring diatribe - can you please offer up any advice/thoughts/suggestions you might have if you or someone else you know has encountered this crazy situation?

 

Now, I'm thinking I'll cancel it all and just sit here in the dark.

 

 

There is a moral to this story somewhere. I think it has something to do with predatory loans, greedy bankers, airline mile programs riddled with loopholes and a new way of life: trying to live on the cheap.

[FlyerTalker]

So many comment opportunities, so few electrons....

 

Let's start with the technical issue that you and all others need to learn about "open jaw" ticketing/fares.

 

To be eligible as an "open jaw", the unflown portion of the itinerary needs to be the SHORTEST of the three distances. Think of it as a triangle - the unflown (open) side needs to be the smallest. Your distances:

 

LAX-YVR 1081 miles

YVR-ANC 1330 miles

ANC-LAX 2345 miles

 

Thus, you need your flown legs to be at least longer than the 1330 "open jaw". The agent was actually being helpful in trying to give you a solution. Unfortunately, because of great circle consideration, just heading east doesn't really help you in this case....you need to go south and that could be done from Tucson. (TUS-YVR = 1339 miles)

 

So, just because a routing has an open segment, it doesn't make it an open jaw. These are technical terms that have specific meanings, and unless you know and use them correctly, you'll get "caught" at some time. Similar to booking a "direct" flight and finding out it has three stops.

 

As for the FF point issues, perhaps in another post.

[leia2107]

So many comment opportunities, so few electrons....

 

Let's start with the technical issue that you and all others need to learn about "open jaw" ticketing/fares.

 

To be eligible as an "open jaw", the unflown portion of the itinerary needs to be the SHORTEST of the three distances. Think of it as a triangle - the unflown (open) side needs to be the smallest. Your distances:

 

LAX-YVR 1081 miles

YVR-ANC 1330 miles

ANC-LAX 2345 miles

 

Thus, you need your flown legs to be at least longer than the 1330 "open jaw". The agent was actually being helpful in trying to give you a solution. Unfortunately, because of great circle consideration, just heading east doesn't really help you in this case....you need to go south and that could be done from Tucson. (TUS-YVR = 1339 miles)

 

So, just because a routing has an open segment, it doesn't make it an open jaw. These are technical terms that have specific meanings, and unless you know and use them correctly, you'll get "caught" at some time. Similar to booking a "direct" flight and finding out it has three stops.

 

As for the FF point issues, perhaps in another post.

 

Thank you for your excellent explanation! I really appreciate it and I apologize for my long, drawn out first post. What a way to jump into the fray! (rolling eyes at myself)

 

Yes, the NW agent was VERY helpful . . . I'm sorry if I failed to convey that properly. And her suggestion regarding Tucson was probably the only solution but driving that distance just isn't an option with my husband's work schedule.

 

Since posting my "book" (above) I've decided to retool the plan and will probably cancel the Princess cruise (which is on a 3-day hold). For now, this seems to be the wisest decision (after looking at all the configurations of flying to Vancouver RT - then buying a one way from Anchorage, dragging baggage back through and rechecking, etc.).

 

Again, thank you for your response. It has helped me understand the overall situation. :)

[scottbee]

Let's start with the technical issue that you and all others need to learn about "open jaw" ticketing/fares.

 

To be eligible as an "open jaw", the unflown portion of the itinerary needs to be the SHORTEST of the three distances. Think of it as a triangle - the unflown (open) side needs to be the smallest. Your distances:

 

LAX-YVR 1081 miles

YVR-ANC 1330 miles <open jaw>

ANC-LAX 2345 miles

 

Thus, you need your flown legs to be at least longer than the 1330 "open jaw"....

 

I know it may be little late, but if those are miles you're transferring from an AMEX to a FF plan, can you transfer to a different program ? If so, transfer them to an AlaskaAir frequent flier plan. Not only will you still be able to book DL/NW (and AA too!) with the AS miles, you'll happily find out that in Alaska's world, that's merely two one way redemptions (which are 1/2 the price of a return). No open jaw issues. and a good choice of AS flights too! for LAX-YVR (non-stop) and ANC-SEA-LAX for the return.

 

Option 2, find out if a 'Stopover' is allowed on your OpenJaw (some airlines allow an openjaw + stopover). If so, fly LAX-SLC-<stop>-SLC-YVR ANC-LAX Now your unflown portion is shorter than either of your flown portions.

YVR-ANC 1330 miles

LAX-SLC-YVR 1387 miles

ANC-LAX 2345 miles

[klfrodo]

Just a thought.

 

Expedia shows United has 1 way flights from LAX to Tucson for $96 pp.

 

Fly to Tucson,,spend the night. Use your open jaw FF miles for the cruise