Royal Champions

[coxswain]

I was sitting thinking before i go to work - what is the BIG picture here why all of a sudden was a discussion allowed on this subject its unheard off !!

 

Is this discussion part of - When bad news is 'good news' 1150 posts - nearly 24,000 views

 

Were the Champs the seeds in a very very clever marketing ploy by RCCL - blogs/websites all talking about one cruise company ????

 

 

'Go forth and multiply' - get the Royal Caribbean name out there !!

 

 

 

The Truth is out There !!

 

 

 

 

jj........

[cyukuk]

 

you keep in mind that several previous threads, some deleted, some locked, had truly vicious and nasty things posted on them about RC's collectively and individually. It has been a cumulative "piling on" and you are seeing the reaction only on this thread.

 

Presumably such a prolific poster as yourself is an RC ???

 

Without a signature block, entirely your choice of course, it is difficult to judge the usefulness of your replies, or the motivation, (see the point folk are trying to make ??)

 

With respect to the quote above, most of the pulled threads and posts, IMHO, have been because they were critical of CC. A tremendous amount of inuendo and abuse has been allowed to flow across this topic without any seeming control, and of course the reason you are only seeing it on this "sticky" is because it is only allowed here. That's no bad thing since then :)we do not have to follow dozens of similar threads on the main board.

 

Luv

Cy

[FinelyCruising]

real simple -- the law, follow it:

(3) When there is a connection

between the endorser and the seller of

the advertised product that might

materially affect the weight or

credibility of the endorsement (i.e., the

connection is not reasonably expected

by the audience), such connection must

be fully disclosed. 16 C.F.R. § 255.5.

 

The ethical code: follow it

Consumers engaged in a word of mouth program should disclose their relationship with marketers in their communications with other consumers. We don't tell consumers specifically what to say, but we do instruct them to be open and honest about any relationship with a marketer and about any products or incentives that they...

 

http://www.ftc.gov/os/comments/endorsementguides2/539124-00009.pdf

 

see the appendix for the full ethical code, including abiding with the federal regulations.

 

This has been spelled out before by me in an earlier post, aquacruiser.

 

Are the RC's members of WOMMA which might then suggest that disclosure should have occurred?

[hazence]

Even after these many posts... a Royal Champ asks “What are your concerns?” I am a patient person: I’ll keep trying.

 

Merion Mom quotes “attacks” on the Champs on this and other threads. The gist of the “attacks” are a variety of words like “cheerleader” “dupe” “shills” etc. Most of these "words" indicate some degree of blind loyalty. Now WHERE did the idea that Champs possess any blind loyalty originate? Who is the source?

 

Why just the Loyalty Marketing Manager of RCCL herself! Address the origin PLEASE!

 

One would suppose that someone with THAT job title, working in that area could speak with authority on the subject of the Royal Champion program. This was not the VP of catering or the Manger of Retail Services. And speak SHE did , at an industry conference…about the concept of the Royal Champ program. She is mighty pleased with it!

 

Yes, the Loyalty Manager was pleased to report its success! Studies had identified a group of posters for certain qualities that set them apart. At the very least was their loyalty to RCCL. But she said more. She said that that the intent was to “subtly influence” these Royal Champ posters…so that THEY would influence the other…um-m-m Royal CHUMP posters like me. A Royal Chump is a sheep to be led by these more dominant posters and led to their brand by the same SPECIFIC QUALITIES the marketing study recognized.

 

1. It's "viral" marketing...like a virus. I am one of the Chumps to be infected.

 

 

2. So…as a Royal Chump, I am indirectly responsible for some Royal Champs getting those first free cruises.

 

 

3. Without the need to influence, cajole or (by evidence on this thread by the Champs posting) drive non-conforming Chumps off the Board…there would have been no need to reward you or give you special status.

 

As evidenced on this thread...Non-conforming Chumps are made to feel that their posts are jealous, or invalid, or worthless, or nefarious, or anything …to discourage questioning of an RCCL “concept.” JUST A CONCEPT! Yes, this seems to be done freely…with swarming by supportive fellow Champs…all terribly concerned about the feelings of themselves but allowing themselves the freedom of NOT caring about what THEY have directed at the non-conforming Chumps. GOOD Lord! We've been accused by these Chosen of RCCL of wanting to "shoot" others.

 

Yet…a Royal Champ cannot exist without Royal Chumps to “influence.”

 

Now I take exception at a program that REWARDS others to influence ME. That is a concern. I do not trust programs that attempt to do that influencing (as theLoyalty Marketing Manager stated) in a way that none of us know it. That’s another concern. I don’t care to be accused of a being some Internet wildcard because the Champs don’t like my point of view. Memo to the Champs: bullying does not inspire admiration or loyalty to the Brand you espouse. You are poor ambassadors when you employ such tactics!

 

Furhermore, NO one at RCCL has refuted the Loyalty Marketing Manager’s statements; they have “regretted” them (as IMO they well should.)

 

Most all the “attacks” that Merion Mom describes are only variations on the RCCL’s Marketing Manager’s OWN words. Yet her words or RCCL’s intent and methods have rarely been addressed here by the Champs. Why not?That is a VERY interesting manifestation of the program itself. ALL those thoughts ORGINATED with words by RCCL! For example, the concept that you were "paid" to "shill." Said in another smoother way...some Were "rewarded" with cruises ....with the intent to have you "influence." Same concept...smoother words.

 

But, and this is important…if RCCL SAYS the "smoother words...SAME CONCEPT..…MOST of you don’t consider that an attack at all! Only ONLY..if another poster says the same thing! They just complain about the words of the Chump posters…the secondary targets of this stealth operation. Amazing loyalty!

 

NOTHING the Loyalty Manager said, NOTHING...concerns any of you? Is it the hope to get more 'rewards?" Is it the desire to stay "special?" Is it the need to protect the concept of Royal Champs because it gives you some special status? Are you too loyal or "subtly influenced" to see any validity in ANY Chump concerns?

 

When new “status titles” are given, NOW the Chumps will know why RCCL did this! When special invitations come to Champs…we will know that we Chumps are being targeted again. If free cruises are given…it will be more about needing more CHUMPS to be “persuaded” or driven off…than the need for Champs’ themselves.

 

Yes, that’s a nice deal for the Champs. No wonder you do not want to ruffle any RCCL feathers by addressing the Chumps concerns or…the very words RCCL spoke about YOU that generated this thread.

.

[cyukuk]

 
Royal CHUMP posters like me

 

Love the new title, slight problem, what to use as an abbreviation in signature blocks ? Can't use RC, what else is suitable?

 

Luv

Cy

:)

[hazence]

 
Royal CHUMP posters like me

Love the new title, slight problem, what to use as an abbreviation in signature blocks ? Can't use RC, what else is suitable?

 

Luv

Cy

:)

 

We'll have to work on that.

I could submit a possible slogan for our group:

 

"Without us Chumps, no need for Champs!"

 

or

 

"Without Chumps here for Schmoozin'...No chance for Champs' Free Cruisin'"

[MrPete]

So, after being entertained the past couple of days, and 39 pages of posts later, how many RC's have asked to be removed from the program now knowing what the marketing dept thinks they have done to you for them?

 

Or has the whole program already gone bust?

[SargassoPirate]

After watching a dead horse being dragged through the street on the Boards here, several days ago I decided to ask Royal Caribbean about the Royal Champions program for myself. Here's the answer I received cut-and-pasted. I bolded some interesting words:

 

 

Dear Mr. Pirate:

 

Thank you for your email. We apologize for the delay in our response.

 

We have identified influential online bloggers and posters who have demonstrated a passion for the Royal Caribbean brand and offering. This group is not unfailingly positive, but rather has displayed both an affection and dedication to finding out all they can about Royal Caribbean and demonstrating a willingness to help others online determine if a Royal Caribbean vacation is right for them or to help them plan a vacation already booked to improve their experience.

 

Thank you for choosing Royal Caribbean International.

 

Sincerely,

 

Christopher Fitzgerald

Customer Service Representative

[HCKMBA]

I know this is my first post, and my spouse who posts here frequently tells me, I will get flamed.

 

I have personally asked Royal Corporate about the Royal Champion program and we told that there was no program. I forwarded several posts and was told that "posters" make up things on the internet to make themselves look important and that there was no Royal Champion Program.

 

When I followed up with a link with pictures to the Liberty Champion cruise, they stopped denying that such a program existed. But then repeated advised me not believe information on internet and these Royal Champions were chosen randomly.

 

Then someone posted the Insight Article...I feel RCCL was dishonest to me. This was a very calculated move and they also misinformed me a Diamond Member! I only put my Diamond Status to let you know I have enjoyed my cruises on RCCL and have been loyal to Royal.

 

RCCL is in the business of making money by providing a great vacation, why did they have to lie to me numerous times. Why did RCCL tell me that their was no RC program and posts on the internet are meaningless.

 

This issue to me is not about the individual RC but a program that RCCL feels that they need to deceive me about the program. If they have to hide something so trivial what else are the concealing?

 

Royal Chump

[cruzeluvr]

WOW, this is quite a thread!

I don't post a lot, but being a long time CC member, I felt I had to voice my opinion.

I have read many posts by many of the Royal Champions, long before they had this dubious title bestowed upon them. For the majority of them, I always respected their opinions, even if I did not necessarily agree. HOWEVER, I now have a concern regarding this Royal Champion designation.

I am a CPA and we have a code of ethics that requires us to be independent in fact AND in appearance when expressing an opinion on financial statements. While the Royal Champions may believe they are in fact independent when expressing their opinions about RCCL, because they were "chosen" by RCCL and may receive certain perks, they are not independent in appearance and unfortunately their opinions are now tainted.

[5waldos]

I know this is my first post, and my spouse who posts here frequently tells me, I will get flamed.

 

I have personally asked Royal Corporate about the Royal Champion program and we told that there was no program. I forwarded several posts and was told that "posters" make up things on the internet to make themselves look important and that there was no Royal Champion Program.

 

When I followed up with a link with pictures to the Liberty Champion cruise, they stopped denying that such a program existed. But then repeated advised me not believe information on internet and these Royal Champions were chosen randomly.

 

Then someone posted the Insight Article...I feel RCCL was dishonest to me. This was a very calculated move and they also misinformed me a Diamond Member! I only put my Diamond Status to let you know I have enjoyed my cruises on RCCL and have been loyal to Royal.

 

RCCL is in the business of making money by providing a great vacation, why did they have to lie to me numerous times. Why did RCCL tell me that their was no RC program and posts on the internet are meaningless.

 

This issue to me is not about the individual RC but a program that RCCL feels that they need to deceive me about the program. If they have to hide something so trivial what else are the concealing?

 

Royal Chump

 

Wow- who did you write to? After all the publicity, it seems absurd that they would deny it. Soft pedal it, yes. Spin it, yes. But deny it? Someone is playing ostrich.

[coxswain]

"Without Chumps here for Schmoozin'...No chance for Champs' Free Cruisin'"

 

 

LOVE IT LOL

 

 

I am a CPA and we have a code of ethics that requires us to be independent in fact AND in appearance when expressing an opinion on financial statements. While the Royal Champions may believe they are in fact independent when expressing their opinions about RCCL, because they were "chosen" by RCCL and may receive certain perks, they are not independent in appearance and unfortunately their opinions are now tainted.

 

 

You got it in one cruzeluvr - every post they make will be looked at, read and read again !!

 

 

 

 

jj......

[HCKMBA]

This was all done in January 2009, we emailed looked up the VP for Marketing which was V Freed. We were contact by her assistant who told us that was no Royal Champion Program but she would into it.

 

If we got an email like Mr. Pirate, we would have been satisfied not happy.

 

Instead we were deceived. A couple of weeks ago we went to local travel show a VP of Marketing for RCCL was there, initially we asked about the program, first she denied, then told us we were mistaken there was no program. When we told her the names of the people we had spoken to she said, give me your names you'll be RC. We said no thank you since nothing seemed right. Now we know RC are being used to market for RCCL. It just didn't seem right then and doesn't seem right now.

[Ocean Boy]

I am going back to the point again concerning Cruise Critic's role in contacting certain designated posters for Buzz Metrics on behalf of Royal Caribbean who had been earmarked for being RCCL enthusiasts. CC had to be aware that these RCs were going to be used for marketing purposes or rewarded in some way for their positive RCCL posts per the above statement in #1.

 

Then we are informed in #2 that some of the selections were surprising to CC because some postings were actually critical in nature.

 

I am puzzled why CC would outline in statements 3-6-7-8 what transpired between RCCL and Royal Champions and the timeline unless they were actively involved beyond initially contacting CC members. Why do they make the statements as if it was first hand personal RC knowledge? If it wasn't did they go through the tedious task of validating the information in the above statements as told to them before providing it to us as factual? I question CC's level of involvement in the RC program more than anything else. Is there any conflict of interest here? And per statement # 8 it appears this process is ongoing.

 

I would be well aware as an RC and posting as one up front that no matter if I received any perks or not I could draw suspicion to the validity or purpose of any of my posts. Whether warranted or not it is going to occur.

However, you have no guarantee on boards like these that any post is truthful, unbiased, or know whether the poster is accepting any rewards or perks. Now I certainly would have a problem if any employee involved with CC was a RC themselves.

I would judge a RC's expressed opinion like any other poster. I would take into consideration the poster, if I had gained respect for them over time... might hold more weight, and what info or opinion was posted. It really would not matter anyhow because I would not make any financial or life-changing decision exclusively by anyone's expressed opinion on CC.

As far as criticizing RCs lighten up. Look at the poster themselves.

IMHO CC.. your participation in this practice, even if just notifying your members about this program, just does not look professional and should be questioned.

Laura

And I think that statement gets to the crux of the issue of "why do the R.C. folks not seem more outraged by what has happened" as so many people have asked.... The answer is simply because I don't care if people are suspicious of my posts just because I am an RC. I have a seven year history on these boards and people are welcome to review all of my posts and make a judgement about their quality and usefulness. If people find them to be helpful that is great. If people find them to be totally useless that is fine too. I will sleep just as well tonight tonight either way...... And I will continue to post on C.C. for those folks who I can help as well as to look for help when I need it. If people think that I have been bought off by RCI that is fine, however, they are wrong. If RCI thought that they were buying me off, that is fine too. However, they are just as equally wrong. I have much more pressing issues to worry about in life than to get "outraged" by this issue.

 

Now, I will probably contiue to read this thread because for some reason I find it both interesting and entertaining and I may even post to it from time to time. But, hopefull, as I check the threads on the main board this morning I'll find a more interesting and entertaining place to spend some time.....

[Ocean Boy]

RCCL has a problem. There is an addage that while truth exists, perception is reality and it very often overpowers truth.

 

The plain fact is that the perception regarding so called Royal Champions is not good to many people who have been frequent RCCL cruisers. When this is added to recent cost cutting measures ( including changing the savings booklets and a loss of combinabitity), the credibility of RCCL has been seriously impaired. In this economy, RCCL is chasing people to their competitors who have not taken such actions.

 

We hope RCCL wakes up!! Loyalty is a two way street.

 

RCI's pricing structure is probably doing a better job of that than anything that you mentioned but there is a whole other thread discussing that.

[hazence]

C is for the special CLUB created...and the Customer insight group as it's named.

H is for Ms. HANNOCK from Royal Marketing; and HOW Champs influence Chumps is the new game.

A is ADVOCATES to be rewarded ...if I respond to what they have to say...

M is for the MOMITORING that goes on here...that prove MOST SPECIAL titles are worth a giveaway.

P is for the the PARTY invitations and all the PLUM rewards that separate

A "viral strategy" that now divides us...Champ or Chump...Fisherman or bait.

Put it all together that's the Program...whose credibility's now way too low to rate.

 

Memo to RCCL marketing...when posters are maligned for having a contrary opinion to your Royals...not all flee...some become more engaged.

[Ocean Boy]

"Why didn't the media know about this? I guess just too busy accusing RC's of hiding identity amd how they were selected. :mad:"

 

Cruisin' Mike, I agree with you. I think it is easier for some to be upset with the media, or other posters than with the words of the cruiseline itself.

 

Very few want to address the words of the Marketing Dept. Maybe because it is hard to say RCCL doesn't know it's own intent and strategy. How do you debate THEM?

 

It's easier to say the media or jealous posters began this. But the Big Oasis in the living room...the words of RCCL in a marketing publication...nope, ...most will not go there!

Or maybe it is because that after years of getting different answers on various issues from RCI depending upon whom one talks to that we have become pretty numb over time to statements that come out of headquarters??;)

[FinelyCruising]

How have Chumps had a bad cruise on a Royal ship as a result of this influence?

[WoodyWindy]

To all of those who are bashing the RC program, and/or those who are in it, due to the statements of somone saying it was designed to influence people to think positively of RCI, have you considered that this is the true purpose of virtually every program by every vendor?

 

Are you a member of a frequent flyer program?

Do you get perks as a frequent cruiser?

Do you enjoy the upgrades you get as a Gold/Platinum/Diamond/Unobtanium hotel guest?

 

Do you tell other people about it, or do you "hide" your membership in these programs in order to make sure folks don't think you are "unduly influenced" by them?

 

Just because the selection criteria are different, don't think for a moment that the GOALS or methods of the RC program are any less noble than the goals of the other loyalty programs. They are identical.

 

The only thing different here is that, since the "concept" of viral marketing is big on buzz these days, someone admitting to the psychological factors considered in this particular program got quoted.

 

If you thoght the RC program was bad, if you saw the kinds of motivational analysis that takes place in formulating the other programs you would have kittens!

 

The bottom line is, this is nothing new. You only just found out about it.

[5waldos]

To all of those who are bashing the RC program, and/or those who are in it, due to the statements of somone saying it was designed to influence people to think positively of RCI, have you considered that this is the true purpose of virtually every program by every vendor?

 

Are you a member of a frequent flyer program?

Do you get perks as a frequent cruiser?

Do you enjoy the upgrades you get as a Gold/Platinum/Diamond/Unobtanium hotel guest?

 

Do you tell other people about it, or do you "hide" your membership in these programs in order to make sure folks don't think you are "unduly influenced" by them?

 

Just because the selection criteria are different, don't think for a moment that the GOALS or methods of the RC program are any less noble than the goals of the other loyalty programs. They are identical.

 

The only thing different here is that, since the "concept" of viral marketing is big on buzz these days, someone admitting to the psychological factors considered in this particular program got quoted.

 

If you thoght the RC program was bad, if you saw the kinds of motivational analysis that takes place in formulating the other programs you would have kittens!

 

The bottom line is, this is nothing new. You only just found out about it.

 

No, I disagree. The purpose of the frequent flyer programs is to bring the individual back to the airline. These are loyalty programs designed to ensure loyalty. That is very different than a program which is designed and intended to influence others. You notice the RCCL has not ended its frequent cruiser program- this had another intent. And I would not be in the least bit shocked about the formulating that goes into other programs. Or into advertising in general. But once in a while you try to draw some lines. I draw a line with this one. Just as I draw a line with attempts to use children to influence their families. And using subliminal advertising on TV.

[berwyn]

LOVE IT LOL

 

 

 

 

 

You got it in one cruzeluvr - every post they make will be looked at, read and read again !!

 

 

 

 

jj......

That says it all.

[MrPete]

 

Are you a member of a frequent flyer program?

Do you get perks as a frequent cruiser?

Do you enjoy the upgrades you get as a Gold/Platinum/Diamond/Unobtanium hotel guest?

 

 

Are these offered to everyone or just a select few?

[Ocean Boy]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I assume you only speak for yourself, not for the 50 to 75 people. Right?

 

Second of all, you clearly have your participation in your signature. At least two people claiming that they are RCs in this thread don't. I think some people are more upset with those who aren't disclosing in any way and with the fact that CC participating in this and didn't require disclosure.

 

Please don't take ANY of this personally. I don't think people mean this personally at all. I certainly do not.

 

My question is simple... Is it more valorous for people to simply disclose and let others draw their personal conclusions based on that disclosure without putting any weight to it, whatsoever? It certainly would end this merry-go-round of a subject. If all were to publicly disclose, the witch would be dead and Dorthy could just go back to Kansas.

 

Nope. I didn't change my signiture because, firstly, I never thought about it. Secondly, I don't view the "group" as being all that important. Aside from giving feedback, which I have not been asked for, to RCI on varous issues I don't know what other function the "group" even has. I would think that TAs on this site would be far more of a concern than any R.C.

 

Next, why should C.C. require any disclosure from us? Other than providing some contact information to RCI, C.C. has nothing to do with this group. C.C. did not form us. We are no different from any other poster in C.C.'s eyes. We have no special privileges. Why should we be treated any differently by C.C. than any T.A.. tour operated, taxi driver, engineer, lawyer, doctor, teacher, or garbage collector?

[cyukuk]

Are you a member of a frequent flyer program?

Do you get perks as a frequent cruiser?

Do you enjoy the upgrades you get as a Gold/Platinum/Diamond/Unobtanium hotel guest?

 

 

 

With respect, your analogy is completly flawed, the highlighted "perks" are gained by spending lots of dollars and in none of them are you expected to toe any party line.

 

The RC product is limited to frequent posters who MUST be continually positive about the product; and if we are to believe the marketing company's statement they will continue to monitor these members to make sure they stay "on message"

 

Interesting thread though !!!

 

Luv

Cy

[WoodyWindy]

No, I disagree. The purpose of the frequent flyer programs is to bring the individual back to the airline. These are loyalty programs designed to ensure loyalty. That is very different than a program which is designed and intended to influence others. You notice the RCCL has not ended its frequent cruiser program- this had another intent. And I would not be in the least bit shocked about the formulating that goes into other programs. Or into advertising in general. But once in a while you try to draw some lines. I draw a line with this one. Just as I draw a line with attempts to use children to influence their families. And using subliminal advertising on TV.

 

I'm afraid you are incorrect. Here are a couple links to a search on the phrase "loyalty programs and word of mouth" (without the quotes)

 

http://search.live.com/results.aspx?q=loyalty+programs+and+word+of+mouth

 

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=word+of+mouth+and+loyalty+programs&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&oq=

 

These have been related and cross-purposed for ages. If a frequent-X program did nothing but bring current guests back, it would be "ok", but buzz really is an important part of it. They make the high-end reward cards stand out so that the user thinks "I'll flash this and people will see how important I am." They'll brag to their friends how they got upgraded to the Ambassador's suite, or were comped a first-class ticket.

 

Believe me, they get a lot of word of mouth "advertising" from loyalty users. They have to in order to make the programs pay.