Thoughts of quality and service...

[dakrewser]

It's interesting to see that the "Cult" is still alive , well, and defensive as ever. Its a tradition here on this board. :D

You don't visit the Celebrity noard much, do you?

 

-dave

[CDRMark]

Do I understand correctly that if I enjoyed my cruise I have no concept of quality service or exellence in food?

Sorry, doesn't compute.

Cheers

MarkB

[JDee]

Heather, whole heartedly agree with your posting (No. 25)... Very well said.....

 

Happy cruising....

[tommy]

JohnR49er,Its a cult of about 3 on Holland.Theres little doubt from recent postings that the service and general quality of Holland has gone down,but IMO its still a good cruise line,at a reasonable price.I just hope it doesnt continue to decline. TOM

[gizmo]

Because we all have different life experiences we all have different ideas of what constitutes fine service and good quality.

 

I am happy that my "review" sparked some interest among the regular cruise critic participants. What bewilders me is there is constant support for the HAL product by people who seem to have no other cruiseline experiences. I wonder if these HAL supporters have ever really had a wonderful meal or had wonderful service.

Some on this board have sailed on other lines. I sailed on NCL which I enjoyed at the time. I wanted a change and we switched to Hal. We saw a big difference, mostly in service and quality of food. The entire cruise experince was different, and we thought Hal was much better suited to what we wanted. I have no idea of what service or food is like today on NCL. I will admit I have seen a decline in Hal. It arrived with the introduction of the Vista ships. IMHO.

I did consider a cruise on X earlier this year. I was very close to booking one but a "last minute deal to die for" came up for a Canal cruise on the Rotterdam so I booked that. I mentioned my disappointment in service a million times on this board so I won't go into that again. I will mention we cruised Oct 2003 and that cruise was as close to perfect as it gets with fantastic service and food. I do realize you can't win them all and not every cruise will be like the one on the Statendam.

 

 

What I am trying to say is this. If the food was good, and the service were as it should be, the HAL product would still be "ordinary". I'm sorry to say that the Zuiderdam experience (IMHO) is no different from RCCL, Princess, NCL, Celebrity, or any other mass market cruise ship. I've been on all of these and they are becoming interchangable.

Since I haven't sailed any other line in a long time so I cannot agree or disagree. I haven't sailed on the Zui and have no interest in doing so.

So, I no longer will consider HAL a "premium" line. (Doesn't mean that I won't cruise with HAL anymore). It just means that when I want (and can afford) a premium vacation, I will go elsewhere.

I am not going to disagree with this statement either. I think the work "premium" is over used. On a press release, back when the SOE was first announced, I counted how many times the word premium was used. Talk about over using a word!!!

[halos]

Hi,

My name is Halos and I'm a cruise addict.

 

I haven't sailed HAL (yet). Currently, I am in the process of researching cruiselines for a special cruise to celebrate 25 years of marraige and an empty nest....the cruise won't be until winter 2007, so I have lots of time to scope the boards and read everything available to me, in order to help me make a decision on whcih line to chose for this special cruise.

The topic that the OP started may be re-hash to some of you, but it isn't for me. I have been on the boards for probably close to a year, but spent most of that time on the Carnival boards since my last cruise was on the Miracle this past June (which, by the way was absolutely awesome). My husband and I have only cruised 3x. Each time was on Carnival and it seems that their line (for us, anyway) improved with each cruise. BUT we want to experience other lines...I'd love to try them all.

In reading recent posts on this board AND on the Celebrity boards, (which are the two lines I have narrowed my choice down to) I have been hearing a lot of the same and it saddens me. It seems the quality of the cruise experience is not the same these days. Of course this opinion varies from person to person and it seems to depend on what ship is sailed as well. Because I have not sailed any line but Carnival, and I do want to try another line, I, for one, appreciate any feedback on any line and every ship. I want to know the good, the bad and the ugly. I may not agree with everyone's opinions, but if I see many bad opinions on a particular ship, this will help me to possibly choose another.

So...the bottom line is, if this thread seems like a re-hash to anyone, please just ignore it. For some of us, it is new news.

[HeatherInFlorida]

Halos, if you want more info from WDBonds you can do a search for his review of this cruise. It was in 2 sections, parts 1 and 2, and was very interesting. But it was because of that review that several of us thought this was a rehash. I think you'll find his review thread more enlightening and informational than this one.

 

Also, with regard to the negative comments on these boards, I'd like to call your attention to one of my own posts. It's #19 on this thread: Cruise Critic Message Boards - When will HAL make corrections

 

The reason I point it out to you is that overall I think people generally tend to talk about the "bad" over the "good" because it is the "good" that they expect. So I would caution you when reading anyone's comments to remember that and blend it in with professional opinions of each ship and cruiseline.

 

Just a thought ... happy hunting! Remember we all wouldn't be cruising if we all didn't love it.

[Giorgi-one]

Appears to me that the OP is rephrasing the zilion words posted on his prior review. Same story.... That story would appear to be a dead horse at this point, having been through the cycle..... It had it's run on prime time.....

 

Not sure what you mean by this. Do you mean that everyone knows the quality is going downhill and should accept it?

[Giorgi-one]

JohnR49er,Its a cult of about 3 on Holland.Theres little doubt from recent postings that the service and general quality of Holland has gone down,but IMO its still a good cruise line,at a reasonable price.I just hope it doesnt continue to decline. TOM

 

There are essentially only two cruise lines now - Carnival and RCCL. They will continue to cut service and quality until there is substantial resistance by the cruising public, meaning that they all flock to one line or switch to land based vacations.

[uncialman]

There are essentially only two cruise lines now - Carnival and RCCL. They will continue to cut service and quality until there is substantial resistance by the cruising public, meaning that they all flock to one line or switch to land based vacations.

 

Right on the money, Giorgi1!

 

However, don't forget Parent Company Star Cruises and they daughter NCL and the new MSC offerings in the cruise market.

[HeatherInFlorida]

Not sure what you mean by this. Do you mean that everyone knows the quality is going downhill and should accept it?

My understanding of JDee's post was that the OP had written a lengthy review and what followed on his thread was quite an intense debate. She was questioning why, when that thread died down, he chose to bring it up again on a new thread within a very short time period. I wholeheartedly agree with her.

I never got the impression she was suggesting anyone should accept inferior quality on any cruiseline.

[JohnR49er]

Not really annoyed Heather. I was just questioning why the die hard HAL cruisers and frequent posters seem to take it so personally when someone has a negative opinion of their child. Someone who posts a negative comment or a problem they have had, usually get a response somewhere on the thread about not complaining over every little thing. If they don't return to the thread for whatever reason, they were just stirring the pot...

The "Big" HAL fans can't be right all the time and the negative opinions can't be wrong all the time. Does it get out of hand? Yes it does at times. Some times things are read into or between the lines of posts. I guess it would be pretty dull if everyone always agreed on everything here. :D

[HeatherInFlorida]

John, I don't know if you've read any of my reviews or posts about my recent HAL experience, but if you did you know that I did say several negative things. Yet not one person got on me about it.

 

I think a lot of it has to do with the way some people express themselves. Just like in life, if you come on too strong and give the impression that there was simply nothing good about the cruise, people are going to react. If a person is persistently negative, you have to wonder what the person's agenda is.

 

I simply can't believe some of the stuff I read here. We've been on 13 cruises, some better than others, but never totally negative. I honestly don't think I would cruise again for a very long time if that happened. That wouldn't be fair, but it's kind of like eating a food that makes you sick. You really aren't dying to eat it again for quite a while:) .

 

There are times when something really bad can happen on a cruise which might pretty much ruin the cruise. If that happened to me, while I might post it here I would then get in touch with the cruiseline and battle it out with them. But then I'd move on. Life is too short to just go over and over and over one bad experience.

[tommy]

Heather,I dont think anyone is saying thier entire cruise was bad,but it does seem they are complaining about the same things.Service in the dining room and cutbacks and maybe the new tipping system.And there are 2or3 people on here who answer back as if we are lying or they want proof or just say they have never expierienced this so I guess it cant be true. TOM

[sail7seas]

Speaking only for myself, as a loyal HAL cruiser, I do not ever take it personally when someone has a negative comment about HAL, a particular ship, or their particular cruise. I often do not agree with some of the negativity but I most assuredly do not take it personally. I do not look at HAL as 'my child' as you reference.

 

 

I read everyone's posts, learn from many of them, and sometimes agree and sometimes disagree.

 

Fair and balanced.....All conversations with have varying opinions. No one is more correct than the other. Each person knows what they like or do not like about everything they experience....including cruises.

[tommy]

Thats nice ,but Iam referring to expieriences not opinions.What is there to agree with when someone says thier service was slow they saw thier waiter 2 times during dinner,there was crap in the drain in the washroom A/C wasnt working inthier room ect. TOM

[dakrewser]

And there are 2or3 people on here who answer back as if we are lying or they want proof or just say they have never expierienced this so I guess it cant be true. TOM

People can only report on their own experience. Some have a negative experience, some a positive one. Neither is more legitimate or accurate, but all require supporting data if the poster wishes others to believe it is true - especially when the readers have no experience of the poster's opinions or observations.

 

-dave

[tommy]

Ok what is supported data if not your word,or are you saying if someone generally only reports on bad things to take it with a grain of salt.If so then the ones that feel the need to defend and only bring up the positive are in the same boat.Anyway someone gives a review or just states what they expierienced on thier cruise shouldnt have to defend themselves or have thier credibility questioned. TOM

[whalers4ever]

My 3rd HAL cruise is coming up soon. Now I have no other cruising experience to compare my HAL cruises to. I think HAL is above par based upon my experience with HAL and based upon the description of other cruise lines by people that I know. For now, we will stick with brand loyalty but will some day venture out to other cruise lines.

 

WJBonds: Related to Julie Bonds M--D--M? I worked with her and I know she's originally from Long G-Island.:D

[RD64]

I have only sailed with HAL three times. I noticed a significant drop in service levels in the dining room, bars, and the pool area between March and August 2004.

 

The service by Elizabeth - the wine steward was exemplary - it was the third time I have been assigned to her section. My cabin steward provided great service as well - on the first night I spilt a few drops of red wine on the sheets. I did not expect them to be changed but they were. As well, I would leave shoes out every night before dinner, and they were always returned shined by the time I returned to the cabin.

 

One thing I did notice missing from my March trip was the waiters coming around by the pool with trays of lemonade and iced tea.

 

Cheers Robert

 

Cheers Robert

[dakrewser]

Ok what is supported data if not your word,or are you saying if someone generally only reports on bad things to take it with a grain of salt.If so then the ones that feel the need to defend and only bring up the positive are in the same boat.Anyway someone gives a review or just states what they expierienced on thier cruise shouldnt have to defend themselves or have thier credibility questioned. TOM

"supported data" is objective data. "Your word" is subjective data. The quality of the food, it's spicyness, etc. is subjective data - opinion. Statements that "they had no power for 30 hours", "there was nothing to eat", or "they water the booze" are statements of fact and should have more than one source before they're considered true. Too often, statements of fact from someone who has never posted here before has been shown to be, at best, hyperbole or exageration.

 

Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion. But everyone is also entitled to decide how much weight to give that opinion.

 

-dave

[JDee]

Not sure what you mean by this. Do you mean that everyone knows the quality is going downhill and should accept it?

What appeared to me was that the OP was not content with the responses given to his posting of the Zuiderdam review Pt 2 of 11/27/04. Food and service can be very subjective. OP indicated in Pts 1 & 2, that he has had very fine dining experiences & that HAL just didn't live up to those high standards, at least that was my impression. Maybe he expected Crystal ambiance at a HAL price, but nevertheless states he would sail HAL again. He also has many good things to say.

 

I just thought that his viewpoints were thoroughly gone over in much detail having received 64 responses with 369 views. Nobody flamed him. Many agreed with many of this points. I just didn't see any point in going over the same road over again. It's somewhat akin to reading threads on no smoking areas, jeans in the DR, they all say the same thing, go round, and round and round. Keep saying the same things over, and over....

 

Heather: Just to set the record straight, JDee is a he... You did indeed understand my post correctly....

[HeatherInFlorida]

................

Heather: Just to set the record straight, JDee is a he... You did indeed understand my post correctly....

When people don't sign their names, there's no way to know. Now I do.:D

[bonnyweed]

dakrewser --This board, almost by definition, is a subjective entity. I'm very interested in reading anyone's opinion, whether they have posted 1 time or 5000 times. The "supporting data" thing is a stretch for me. Does one require photographs of the backed up sewage? Perhaps the picture has been altered. There is no standard of objectivity to be applied here. If you think someone is full of b.s., then that's your right to feel that way. It is even your right to be terse when challenging people and to demand "supporting data." And the other wonderful thing is that I can find your demands to be bizarre and still enjoy reading what you write.

This isn't a court of law....just a virtual community of people with opinions and experiences.

I think HAL is going downhill. It is still a very solid product though, to me,

not excellent. Things change...maybe they will improve. I'd sail on almost any line if the price was right.

[tommy]

Thank you Bonny very well said.I go a step further a first time posting is probably more subjective than the 5000+postings. TOM