Unbelievable - In A Good Way! - DRESS CODE

[Jeka]

Nearly all women wore skirts, dresses, slacks, and very nice blouses.

 

- Rick

 

And if you go the same number of years in the other direction, 1919, can you image the reaction to women in slacks and short sleeves in 1964. Oh gosh they'd have said, so gauche, cheap and maybe a she's even a hussy.

 

Styles change, it's part of living. Let's live in today, not 40+ years ago.

[FinelyCruising]

And if you go the same number of years in the other direction, 1919, can you image the reaction to women in slacks and short sleeves in 1964. Oh gosh they'd have said, so gauche, cheap and maybe a she's even a hussy.

 

Styles change, it's part of living. Let's live in today, not 40+ years ago.

 

Sure since living today means having your brands hang out of your pants and bra straps out of your tank tops. Absolutely throw modesty out the window, its not needed.:cool:

[Jeka]

Sure since living today means having your brands hang out of your pants and bra straps out of your tank tops. Absolutely throw modesty out the window, its not needed.:cool:

 

I was trying to put the time periods in prospective, why so nasty and negative!:mad: Can you say you've never worn anything a bit revealing in your life? I bet you have compared to 1919 or for that matter 1964.

[FinelyCruising]

I was trying to put the time periods in prospective, why so nasty and negative!:mad: Can you say you've never worn anything a bit revealing in your life? I bet you have compared to 1919 or for that matter 1964.

 

Nasty and negative? Touchy, touchy!

 

And no, I don't have my underware hanging out of my clothes on purpose.

[Jeka]

Ha Ha, at least they have them on.

[woodofpine]

I don't agree that opulence is associated by the size of the ship. .

 

I'm not certain that anyone waxing nostalgic is asking for opulence when it comes to Celebrity.

 

And at the risk of that term being a turn off as in sounding gauche or haughty, I think most are really just looking for a comfortable and friendly environment that does not invite stand outs far outside the mainstream.

 

Veronica's example of feeling out of place in her comfortable dress down is an excellent illustration of the internal discomfort that resulted from going that far outside of the box when the environment was other than what she wanted it to be.

 

Was she intentionally disprepectful? No, she adaped to the alternate opportunites available and in place for those who opt out.

 

Was she viewed as a renegade, potentially.

 

Would another person have thought twice about being in exactly the same movie as Veronica? Potentially no. They might be thinking I'm not going to stress about this, whatever, I'll dress comfortable and its my vacation.

 

So we circle back to the never ending cycle that continues as a result of the difference between those who give a s***, and those that don't.

 

 

Well... I... like it.

 

You're right that opulence doesn't have much to do with ship size. They're ALL opulent by historical standards!

 

Large ship demographics... Sure, conformity will always be sacrificed. Can one be happy with 90%. In that instance, a couple hundred people are 'inappropriately' dressed. Does it impact my cruise if it is 95% or 85%?

 

I used to give a s***, but I don't so much any more... It hasn't affected the way I dress onboard, but I am more content now that I don't much give a s***... I can't affect how people dress only how I react to the immovable truth that ships with a couple thousand passengers will ALWAYS have hundreds whose fashion sensibility deviates radically from my own conformist self...

 

Given the fact that true formalware situations are now few and far between in contemporary society; and given that passenger ships are now a vacation medium rather than an integral part of transportation infrastructure, I think its amazing that so many people still adhere to a tradition that has taken on costume party campiness.

[lucky white heather]

Well... I... like it.

 

You're right that opulence doesn't have much to do with ship size. They're ALL opulent by historical standards!

 

Large ship demographics... Sure, conformity will always be sacrificed. Can one be happy with 90%. In that instance, a couple hundred people are 'inappropriately' dressed. Does it impact my cruise if it is 95% or 85%?

 

I used to give a s***, but I don't so much any more... It hasn't affected the way I dress onboard, but I am more content now that I don't much give a s***... I can't affect how people dress only how I react to the immovable truth that ships with a couple thousand passengers will ALWAYS have hundreds whose fashion sensibility deviates radically from my own conformist self...

 

Given the fact that true formalware situations are now few and far between in contemporary society; and given that passenger ships are now a vacation medium rather than an integral part of transportation infrastructure, I think its amazing that so many people still adhere to a tradition that has taken on costume party campiness.

 

Is "costume party campiness" meant to mean that pax are currently dressing to a standard the cruiseline asks for, which really is in your view "costume party and "camp" " level? I'm confused!

Maybe I'm cynical but it sounds like you are of the opinion that having to try to dress to any specifically requested minimum standard of dress code on whatever line you cruise on , offends you?

Maybe if you cruise on Disney cruiseline you could wear your MM hat all day and be " appropriate" for their standard .

I'd expect that to apply on Disney ships because cruises on Disney are meant for children mainly.

However for ships that we ( generally) cruise on , the cost of the cruise for us is way above a regular cheapo beach holiday so I'm expecting the cruise standards to match the price I'm having to find just to get aboard!

 

Call me stupid for thinking this way if you like but if it is costing me an arm and a leg for this type holiday I don't want to see dress code standards that are the base minimum of T shirt / shorts at dinner where you have white cloths, sparkling silverware, a waiter in a tux offering excellent service at your elbow etc etc ... I can get the lesser standard at McDonalds for thousands less.

[woodofpine]

Is "costume party campiness" meant to mean that pax are currently dressing to a standard the cruiseline asks for, which really is in your view "costume party and "camp" " level? I'm confused!

Maybe I'm cynical but it sounds like you are of the opinion that having to try to dress to any specifically requested minimum standard of dress code on whatever line you cruise on , offends you?

Maybe if you cruise on Disney cruiseline you could wear your MM hat all day and be " appropriate" for their standard .

I'd expect that to apply on Disney ships because cruises on Disney are meant for children mainly.

However for ships that we ( generally) cruise on , the cost of the cruise for us is way above a regular cheapo beach holiday so I'm expecting the cruise standards to match the price I'm having to find just to get aboard!

 

Call me stupid for thinking this way if you like but if it is costing me an arm and a leg for this type holiday I don't want to see dress code standards that are the base minimum of T shirt / shorts at dinner where you have white cloths, sparkling silverware, a waiter in a tux offering excellent service at your elbow etc etc ... I can get the lesser standard at McDonalds for thousands less.

 

Well... If and when you cruise Disney (I don't) you'll find it priced 50-100% higher per diem than 'cheapo' cruiselines (like X)... :rolleyes:

 

Make no mistake... I dress 'appropriately'; but I loath dark suits. On formal nights, I switch off between a black tux or white dinner jacket cummerbund etc. (sometimes during a single evening!:)) I personally enjoy it; but I despise dark suits and dress codes equally. I can perfectly understand how 'better men (or women) than I' might not dress up cruising. I understand those folks will simply live their lives as they best see fit.

 

Cruise ship 'formal night' dress does not anymore reflect a 'standard' (def. 'typical', 'regular', 'ordinary', 'customary', 'normal') sort of dress as it did once upon a time. Today, it reflects an extraordinary, uncommon, irregular sort of dress, thus much closer akin to 'costume' than 'standard' dress. The cruiselines recognize this; hence their reluctance to penalize decent, normal, passengers dressing in a regular ordinary 'standard' way - simply to uphold a highly outdated non-'standard' that's morphed into costume.

 

A couple of things I know with certainty, 1) ships carrying 2,000 - 3,000 passengers will have hundreds of non-formal dressers on formal night, 2) the answer to the question, "How important is it?" only reflects whether I've decided to enjoy my life or be miserable in it. It will affect no one else.

 

Should maitre d's enforce some level of dress in the main dining room? I suppose. Should they rigorously enforce formal attire on 'formal' night? For the foregoing reasons, I don't expect it. Is it any of MY business? Only if I want to answer the above question 2... miserably...

 

I'm sort of blessed in that I've never shared dinner tables on ships (WE always look 'smashing'.) But I will someday... And when I share one with a formal night 'camper', if I allow dress to become the 'measure of the man' then I will have really sacrificed my standards...

 

Enjoy your cruise! (That's an order!;))

[lucky white heather]

Well... If and when you cruise Disney (I don't) you'll find it priced 50-100% higher per diem than 'cheapo' cruiselines (like X)... :rolleyes:

 

Make no mistake... I dress 'appropriately'; but I loath dark suits. On formal nights, I switch off between a black tux or white dinner jacket cummerbund etc. (sometimes during a single evening!:)) I personally enjoy it; but I despise dark suits and dress codes equally. I can perfectly understand how 'better men (or women) than I' might not dress up cruising. I understand those folks will simply live their lives as they best see fit.

 

Cruise ship 'formal night' dress does not anymore reflect a 'standard' (def. 'typical', 'regular', 'ordinary', 'customary', 'normal') sort of dress as it did once upon a time. Today, it reflects an extraordinary, uncommon, irregular sort of dress, thus much closer akin to 'costume' than 'standard' dress. The cruiselines recognize this; hence their reluctance to penalize decent, normal, passengers dressing in a regular ordinary 'standard' way - simply to uphold a highly outdated non-'standard' that's morphed into costume.

 

A couple of things I know with certainty, 1) ships carrying 2,000 - 3,000 passengers will have hundreds of non-formal dressers on formal night, 2) the answer to the question, "How important is it?" only reflects whether I've decided to enjoy my life or be miserable in it. It will affect no one else.

 

Should maitre d's enforce some level of dress in the main dining room? I suppose. Should they rigorously enforce formal attire on 'formal' night? For the foregoing reasons, I don't expect it. Is it any of MY business? Only if I want to answer the above question 2... miserably...

 

I'm sort of blessed in that I've never shared dinner tables on ships (WE always look 'smashing'.) But I will someday... And when I share one with a formal night 'camper', if I allow dress to become the 'measure of the man' then I will have really sacrificed my standards...

 

Enjoy your cruise! (That's an order!;))

 

Your response clarifies everything for me.

[woodofpine]

I'll tell you where I get a chuckle... blue jeans... and reactions thereto... just amazing.

 

I am a bit of dress conformist so on ships I have to be careful of my USA Levis inclinations and counter my better instincts. Instincts adopted, counterculturally impressed, and endorsed by transnational (UK) popular artists singing 'Bell Bottom Blues' ("I think I'm cryin'") to a generation of admirers... :) (And Eric C. cruises a $50M personal yatch!)

 

What is it about these blue cotton pants that raise the hackles of so many? As opposed to 'lesser' blue cotton pants. How can four 1/2cm copper pocket rivets raise such commotion? But it does... Culture is an amazing thing.

 

So... the port day ends into a casual evening and I trade-in my infinately superior blue jeans for some lesser trouser for dining et al. Yah... I'm a conformist that doesn't give a s***.

 

One thing I've learned about blue jeans... They are NOT comfortable clothing for long duration air flights. That's a concession I have to make... But you still won't get me dressing in a jacket and tie to fly! (Not unless it's the Saudi King's 747!)

[TomTN]

Well... If and when you cruise Disney (I don't) you'll find it priced 50-100% higher per diem than 'cheapo' cruiselines (like X)... :rolleyes:

 

Make no mistake... I dress 'appropriately'; but I loath dark suits. On formal nights, I switch off between a black tux or white dinner jacket cummerbund etc. (sometimes during a single evening!:)) I personally enjoy it; but I despise dark suits and dress codes equally. I can perfectly understand how 'better men (or women) than I' might not dress up cruising. I understand those folks will simply live their lives as they best see fit.

 

Cruise ship 'formal night' dress does not anymore reflect a 'standard' (def. 'typical', 'regular', 'ordinary', 'customary', 'normal') sort of dress as it did once upon a time. Today, it reflects an extraordinary, uncommon, irregular sort of dress, thus much closer akin to 'costume' than 'standard' dress. The cruiselines recognize this; hence their reluctance to penalize decent, normal, passengers dressing in a regular ordinary 'standard' way - simply to uphold a highly outdated non-'standard' that's morphed into costume.

 

A couple of things I know with certainty, 1) ships carrying 2,000 - 3,000 passengers will have hundreds of non-formal dressers on formal night, 2) the answer to the question, "How important is it?" only reflects whether I've decided to enjoy my life or be miserable in it. It will affect no one else.

 

Should maitre d's enforce some level of dress in the main dining room? I suppose. Should they rigorously enforce formal attire on 'formal' night? For the foregoing reasons, I don't expect it. Is it any of MY business? Only if I want to answer the above question 2... miserably...

 

I'm sort of blessed in that I've never shared dinner tables on ships (WE always look 'smashing'.) But I will someday... And when I share one with a formal night 'camper', if I allow dress to become the 'measure of the man' then I will have really sacrificed my standards...

 

Enjoy your cruise! (That's an order!;))

 

Excellent post.

Why should what others wear bother me? i have other more important thing to worry about. i.e. my watch needs a new battery.

 

Bell bottom blues. Hadn't thought of that tune in years. Now I can't get it out of my head. D and the Ds?

[lucky white heather]

Well... If and when you cruise Disney (I don't) you'll find it priced 50-100% higher per diem than 'cheapo' cruiselines (like X)... :rolleyes:

 

Make no mistake... I dress 'appropriately'; but I loath dark suits. On formal nights, I switch off between a black tux or white dinner jacket cummerbund etc. (sometimes during a single evening!:)) I personally enjoy it; but I despise dark suits and dress codes equally. I can perfectly understand how 'better men (or women) than I' might not dress up cruising. I understand those folks will simply live their lives as they best see fit.

 

Cruise ship 'formal night' dress does not anymore reflect a 'standard' (def. 'typical', 'regular', 'ordinary', 'customary', 'normal') sort of dress as it did once upon a time. Today, it reflects an extraordinary, uncommon, irregular sort of dress, thus much closer akin to 'costume' than 'standard' dress. The cruiselines recognize this; hence their reluctance to penalize decent, normal, passengers dressing in a regular ordinary 'standard' way - simply to uphold a highly outdated non-'standard' that's morphed into costume.

 

A couple of things I know with certainty, 1) ships carrying 2,000 - 3,000 passengers will have hundreds of non-formal dressers on formal night, 2) the answer to the question, "How important is it?" only reflects whether I've decided to enjoy my life or be miserable in it. It will affect no one else.

 

Should maitre d's enforce some level of dress in the main dining room? I suppose. Should they rigorously enforce formal attire on 'formal' night? For the foregoing reasons, I don't expect it. Is it any of MY business? Only if I want to answer the above question 2... miserably...

 

I'm sort of blessed in that I've never shared dinner tables on ships (WE always look 'smashing'.) But I will someday... And when I share one with a formal night 'camper', if I allow dress to become the 'measure of the man' then I will have really sacrificed my standards...

 

Enjoy your cruise! (That's an order!;))

 

I read something more into these responses that take pages to write...who are you really trying to convince /impress...me or yourself?

 

Frankly I can see why you think you are "blessed in that you've never shared dinner tables on ships"...just as well... if I had to listen to all of your opinions ( probably not only about past / present dress codes either) I'd have to find I was "cruising with friends I didn't know were aboard, and had been invited to join their table " and leave you to enjoy your own pontifications.

I don't need to worry you might be our next tablemate since you prefer to dine alone anyway.

[FinelyCruising]

Large ship demographics... Sure, conformity will always be sacrificed. Can one be happy with 90%. In that instance, a couple hundred people are 'inappropriately' dressed. Does it impact my cruise if it is 95% or 85%?

 

I can only speak for myself...a 15% fall off two years ago would not impact my cruise, but at 15% fall off with the further widening of the two distinct forms of dress concerns me, its the idea that given the even more comfortable/casual standard I see many more posts questioning how the barest minimum can be met and fewer posts with the tell me what I need to do to get it right. I hope I am not imagining that or being too cynical.

 

Several years ago when we were enjoying some time on Royal ships, that fall off was pretty shocking since it was closer to a majority fall off and I have to say I felt out of place and over dressed. That was not a good experience for me and I hope that over time the same does not occur again on Celebrity. If it does, I will have to weigh all that Celebrity offers and if it still stacks up pretty good, them I just might have to start not giving a s***. ;)

[Rick-cruiser]

After my mother passed away in January, I was cleaning out her apartment and found a scrapbook from my parents first cruise in the early 1970's on RCCL's Song of Norway. In the Welcome Aboard picture, my mother is wearing a white wool suit with dark shoes and matching handbag, a red blouse with fluffy bow and her good pearls. My father is wearing a navy blue blazer, grey pants, striped shirt and a tie. In various pictures taken at dinner, my mother always had a cocktail or after 5 dress on and my father always had a jacket and tie. Everyone at the table was dressed similarly. On formal night every man had a tux or white dinner jacket and the ladies were all in floor length gowns.

 

The white wool suit to board the ship may have been overkill, but I see absolutely nothing wrong with the rest of it. They looked so nice and everyone was smiling and clearly having a good time. I don't ever remember my parents complaining about the dress code until their last cruise, on Sovereign of the Seas, where they encountered what my father referred to "as those dungaree wearing people".

 

Ah the good old days....

 

 

I’m glad I started this thread. I love hearing stories like the one above, about how people dressed – and presented themselves to others – just a few generations ago.

My parents also have pictures of themselves and many of the other passengers on their two cruises on the Oceanic back in the 1960s. Everyone seemed to be dressed so respectfully. Respect for themselves, and for others. I’m not talking about formal, or conservative… just “neatly dressed”. As if they took a moment, or two, to think about how they wanted to present themselves to others in public. They cared what other people thought of them, and also were very cognizant of the setting in which they were a part.

 

I think that this level of neatness and propriety was simply the norm of the times.

- Rick

[FinelyCruising]

I’m glad I started this thread. I love hearing stories like the one above, about how people dressed – and presented themselves to others – just a few generations ago.

 

My parents also have pictures of themselves and many of the other passengers on their two cruises on the Oceanic back in the 1960s. Everyone seemed to be dressed so respectfully. Respect for themselves, and for others. I’m not talking about formal, or conservative… just “neatly dressed”. As if they a took moment, or two, to think about how they wanted to present themselves to others in public. They cared what other people thought of them, and also were very cognizant of the setting in which they were a part.

 

I think that this level of neatness and propriety was simply the norm of the times.

 

- Rick

 

Rick yes, people cared what others thougt of them and there are still people who care about other perceptions, but that has been turned around to have become a weekness and an affliction as those who care are so insecure and needly for approval that they can't make their own mind up or move out of a safety zone. Its a mental mess what has become of behavior.

[lucky white heather]

I’m glad I started this thread. I love hearing stories like the one above, about how people dressed – and presented themselves to others – just a few generations ago.

 

My parents also have pictures of themselves and many of the other passengers on their two cruises on the Oceanic back in the 1960s. Everyone seemed to be dressed so respectfully. Respect for themselves, and for others. I’m not talking about formal, or conservative… just “neatly dressed”. As if they took a moment, or two, to think about how they wanted to present themselves to others in public. They cared what other people thought of them, and also were very cognizant of the setting in which they were a part.

 

I think that this level of neatness and propriety was simply the norm of the times.

 

- Rick

 

 

Nowadays so many seem to want to wash away the common courtesy that used to be part of your upbringing for most of us ! It's such a shame to put all of that aside and substitute it with the "me me me" attitudes that you see so frequently everywhere... old fashioned standards are now so despised as if there was something wrong with them.

 

We are sadly mistaken when thinking that doing that is an improvement. Selfishness by those committed non- conformists promoting their " I can do what I like " attitude , is not attractive .

[woodofpine]

Nowadays so many seem to want to wash away the common courtesy that used to be part of your upbringing for most of us !

 

Are you certain? Mirror, Mirror, On the Wall... :D;):D

[lucky white heather]

Are you certain? Mirror, Mirror, On the Wall... :D;):D

I still struggle with what you are trying to say?Why not say it straight out and be done with it..it would save so much time.Usually you write pages of detail that is very convoluted . What's with this... only 8 words?

I don't really care what your mysterious coded message is meant to say but if you want a response ... just say whatever it is straight out and I'll get back to you if I think it is worth commenting further.

[suntanshipshape]

I saw a PBS show the other evening all about the 1964 World's Fair, held in New York and attended by over 52 million people worldwide. As such, they showed many, many videos and montages of the crowds of people attending the fair. You would not believe how elegantly EVERYONE was dressed. And I mean everyone...all the hundreds and thousands of people shown walking around. There were NO JEANS, at all, worn by anybody. And not one person was dressed as would be considered "sloppily" or "inappropriately" - there were no tank tops, halter tops, low cut blouses, loose baggy jeans (actually, again... NO jeans), or anything of a "revealing nature". Most men (and boys) wore neatly-pressed pants and dress shirts.. many with jackets and ties. Nearly all women wore skirts, dresses, slacks, and very nice blouses. Everyone looked as though they dressed preparing to go to church, or a catered affair, or any other type of elegant event. It was truly astonishing, and refreshing, to see.

 

I KNOW that times have changed….. and I KNOW that many people would hate to be restricted and expected to dress this way in public anymore…. but I must admit, by watching this show, you could see how dramatically the standards of dress have changed over the years.

 

I'm just describing these observances about how people dressed back then to offer a reason, perhaps, why some people are so passionate about cruise lines maintaining a higher standard of dress code aboard their ships. I do believe that some people, including me, would actually LIKE to try to recreate an environment where people dressed as they once did - go back to a time when an ambience of elegance and refinement was delineated – in some part - by the way people dressed. And wish that cruise lines would try to preserve this.

- Rick

 

I showed some kids of friends pictures of us having dinners and picnics together just a few years before they were born; circa late 60's. They remarked at how well we dressed for picnics and casual potluck dinners. Same with work; started with suit and ties, and retired with "smart casual" just in time for crusing in retirement.:)

[monkeyinhat]

This thread has brought back a lot of memories of mom and dad in the 1960's going out for dinner all dressed up him in suit and tie and her in fur and then to the 1970's of him leisure suits and puka shell necklaces and her in elephant ear pants and halter.

 

Do some resturants still keep the coat and tie for men if they do not come in dressed in them??

 

I remember mom telling me when I was a teen that she didn't like jeans because growing up only poor kids wore them during her youth .They were poor but her parents made sure her brother never had to wear jeans to school.

 

I am ok with people wearing jeans on cruises. I am not ok with people on cruises wearing scrubs and pajama pants. No one over four years old needs to be in public with pajama pants on unless there is a fire alarm.

 

I personally like dressing up on cruises and so does my husband. Formal nights just make it a different experience than going to get food and eating dinner. Very rarely do we dress up otherwise, and makes it sorta.......romantic, sexy, I don't know the proper adjective ,but we do it more for each other than anything else. On more than one occasion hubs has said as we are walking down the hall, are you sure it's formal night, are you sure? We turn the corner and some guy is in jeans and a golf shirt, he freaks and says , you were wrong! Then I explain not everyone dresses up.

 

I have to say I find it funny about the discussion of 400.00 Armani jeans ok and 12.00 Rustlers not ok for Europeans. I have read on the boards over and over , oh horrible Americans wearing sneakers in Europe :eek: When a lot of those sneakers cost 200.00. Armani ok Mephisto not ok

[kiwinick]

I find that much of the debate about formal dress codes is characterized by people constantly invoking ideas of courtesy and respect, the tacit implication being of course that anyone who disagrees or doesn't adhere to the letter of the dress code is attempting to erode these values. The value that stands out most in my mind when I think of courtesy and respect is tolerance, which seems at times in short supply on these boards.

 

Yes I will personally always adhere to dress codes, but if I went through life asking that people be removed from my sight who weren't adhering to the same principles my experiences would be considerably less rich.

 

The reality of life in 2009 (and 1969 for that matter) is that the quality of a man's character cannot be judged by the cut of his dinner jacket.

[Ma Bell]

It has nothing to do with the clothing and everything to do with the attitude. It works both ways. People who "purposely" denigrate the dress code have little character and making a scene is not much better.

[woodofpine]

To those that denounce the decline of western civilization as evidenced by... fashion...

 

During the nattily dressed 1960's, passenger ships were parading to the breakers. For more than a decade now, new builds have expanded the passenger fleet by multiples.

 

The adored primly dressed society of yesteryear placed little value on passenger ships and cruising. The scorned casual society on the other hand clearly cherishes cruising and stunning innovative passenger ships.

 

So what do you value? Cruising or clothing?

[excitedofharpenden]

So what do you value? Cruising or clothing?

Cruising with clothing is a good thing for me. I don't have the body for anyhing else. It's even better if it's cruising with clothing as requested by the cruiseline. That's the experience I pay for.

 

Phil

[woodofpine]

Cruising with clothing is a good thing for me. I don't have the body for anyhing else. It's even better if it's cruising with clothing as requested by the cruiseline. That's the experience I pay for.

 

Phil

 

LOL...

 

I'd love to hear the conversations in crew quarters when one of those nudist-naturalist groups charters a ship? That must be a laugh-riot!