Unbelievable - In A Good Way! - DRESS CODE

[lucky white heather]

To those that denounce the decline of western civilization as evidenced by... fashion...

 

During the nattily dressed 1960's, passenger ships were parading to the breakers. For more than a decade now, new builds have expanded the passenger fleet by multiples.

 

The adored primly dressed society of yesteryear placed little value on passenger ships and cruising. The scorned casual society on the other hand clearly cherishes cruising and stunning innovative passenger ships.

 

So what do you value? Cruising or clothing?

 

It's not the fashion per se that only gives offence..it is combining the lack of ability to meet the requested standards in both clothing and behaviour together. I still value both and perhaps you do too but obviously not to the same degree going by your previous posts anyway.

[Lois R]

Hi Rick, I missed the "World's Fair Special" again:eek::(

That was the beginning of this thread right?:confused:

I know you said it was going to be on last night.......I feel asleep

and missed it.

[chrisinroch]

Let me throw this theory out...

 

A cruise for some folks (myself included) is a desire to go back in time to an era of elegance and romance. Its like a large play where you want your fellow passengers to play a certain part. When other cruisers dress and act the part, it makes the play better.

 

But admittedly not everyone is interested in the more romantic aspect of cruising.

[lucky white heather]

Let me throw this theory out...

 

A cruise for some folks (myself included) is a desire to go back in time to an era of elegance and romance. Its like a large play where you want your fellow passengers to play a certain part. When other cruisers dress and act the part, it makes the play better.

 

But admittedly not everyone is interested in the more romantic aspect of cruising.

 

 

Perhaps you've hit the nail on the head! I think I may fall into the same category..because it costs us so much to cruise you want it to be very special...we aspired to go on a cruise for years before we could ever afford to..and then when you see those who come aboard and behave like it is just an everyday experience where they do not even want to consider upkeeping the ambiance of the cruise, it kind of bursts your bubble .

 

You get annoyed because it is obviously not the same experience for them as it is for you, but the cruiseline still tries to protect the more up-market/expectation with higher standards . Which is why those who pay for a 5* experience and then get a 3 * experience get annoyed...if you booked a 5* hotel and found the facilities were not really in evidence when you booked in, you'd feel angry and disappointed too.

I could save thousands going cheaper but I am expecting to get the high standards I paid for if the cruiseline brochure blumph says I will.

 

I'm still an MGM movie fan myself..all glitz and glamour!

[woodofpine]

Perhaps you've hit the nail on the head! I think I may fall into the same category..because it costs us so much to cruise you want it to be very special...we aspired to go on a cruise for years before we could ever afford to..and then when you see those who come aboard and behave like it is just an everyday experience where they do not even want to consider upkeeping the ambiance of the cruise, it kind of bursts your bubble .

 

You get annoyed because it is obviously not the same experience for them as it is for you, but the cruiseline still tries to protect the more up-market/expectation with higher standards . Which is why those who pay for a 5* experience and then get a 3 * experience get annoyed...if you booked a 5* hotel and found the facilities were not really in evidence when you booked in, you'd feel angry and disappointed too.

I could save thousands going cheaper but I am expecting to get the high standards I paid for if the cruiseline brochure blumph says I will.

 

I'm still an MGM movie fan myself..all glitz and glamour!

 

I understand this point of view completely! I adhered to it for a few cruises. Unfortunately, the perspective didn't serve me well - it was doomed by contemporary realities (not contemporary values - just styles).

 

I went through a similar 'nostalgia' weep when hoteliers in Germany, Switzerland, and Austria embraced modernism in interior decor (following the French by about 30 years!). Reluctantly, I had to admit the benefits of these designs and renovations. I'll always have a soft spot for traditional Tyrolian decor!

 

I can't insist on others having the same experience as me and simultaneously denounce "me me me"! We're all on vacation and want our leisure vision fulfilled. If I hold resentment over it, I'm done... A friend of mine once said, "Resentment is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die."

 

Few cruisers on mass market lines are paying 5* prices. They're not (except 'perhaps' for the largest suites that in fact often become free upgrades). 5* land based hotel/restaurant vacationing costs at least twice what large ship cruisers are paying per diem. That's quantifiable and undebatable. Cruising is 3* priced (often 2* priced). Ironically, the 5* hotel-restaurant trade is increasingly dominated by modernist decor, management, and clientele that eschew traditional stylings.

 

I love the old MGM flicks too... They were cinematic art! But generally speaking it was impressionism not realism, escapism for audiences suffering depression and war. Next time you want to watch one, I'll bring the popcorn! :D

[excitedofharpenden]

I understand this point of view completely! I adhered to it for a few cruises. Unfortunately, the perspective didn't serve me well - it was doomed by contemporary realities (not contemporary values - just styles).

I guess I'm just a simple chap, but this is where I have an issue with all the dress code debates. There are a lot of posts about times changing and styles being more relaxed these days and I honestly understand that and see it day to day. I'm young enough to get that bit. However it's not as if we are asking people to wear plus fours when strolling the Promenade Deck or don smart hats when going to afternoon tea. It's very possible to look very smart in contemporary styles and adhere to what is requested by the cruiseline. And that last bit is the one I have most issue with in these debates. I guess I don't understand why the subject gets discussed so much when it is set out by Celebrity. Then again and as I said before, I am just a simple chap.:o

 

Phil

[Spike in FL]

Boy, was this funny to read! I went to the '64 World's Fair. I was 13, and I remember quite clearly that I wore a pair of RED WRANGLER jeans. I also ate 3 of those darn Belgian waffles! I remember getting absolutely hysterical over the guy selling cokes in the Florida Pavilion: "Get your coca cola here; you KNOW you want one. Take one home for a souvenir." My sisters and I still say that to each other when we order a coke. Our parents were pretty disgusted with us by the end of the day; it was one of those "giggle and be silly" days, and I was the oldest and ringleader for the foolishness. Thanks for the memories.

 

Spike

[lucky white heather]

I understand this point of view completely! I adhered to it for a few cruises. Unfortunately, the perspective didn't serve me well - it was doomed by contemporary realities (not contemporary values - just styles).

 

I went through a similar 'nostalgia' weep when hoteliers in Germany, Switzerland, and Austria embraced modernism in interior decor (following the French by about 30 years!). Reluctantly, I had to admit the benefits of these designs and renovations. I'll always have a soft spot for traditional Tyrolian decor!

 

I can't insist on others having the same experience as me and simultaneously denounce "me me me"! We're all on vacation and want our leisure vision fulfilled. If I hold resentment over it, I'm done... A friend of mine once said, "Resentment is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die."

 

Few cruisers on mass market lines are paying 5* prices. They're not (except 'perhaps' for the largest suites that in fact often become free upgrades). 5* land based hotel/restaurant vacationing costs at least twice what large ship cruisers are paying per diem. That's quantifiable and undebatable. Cruising is 3* priced (often 2* priced). Ironically, the 5* hotel-restaurant trade is increasingly dominated by modernist decor, management, and clientele that eschew traditional stylings.

 

I love the old MGM flicks too... They were cinematic art! But generally speaking it was impressionism not realism, escapism for audiences suffering depression and war. Next time you want to watch one, I'll bring the popcorn! :D

 

You obviously do not have any idea of the prices we save up to pay to cruise over here! We do not get cheap deals / cheap flights nor residency discounts at al.

I have paid much more for a 12 night cruise in the Med. with a 3 hour flight time (even as a last minute deal) than the cost of a B2B 21 night Caribbean cruise with a 9 hour plus flight out to MIA from London after buying a flight from Scotland to London first, an overnight hotel in FLL , an 8 hour plus flight back to London and the return flight to Scotland to pay for after that combined with the cost of the cruise itself.

So don't try to tell me that cruisers are not paying 5* prices .......why do you think Celebrity leaves most of its ships over here for so long in the year ...they make a bomb and they are not just filled with Americans paying top dollar!

I've stayed in a suite ...it was NOT any upgrade...I paid for it as priced.

 

We also know quite a lot about British hotel prices through our family member with current experience... the hotels she has been employed in have clientele..., tourists, business clients ..and they pay ( or the company does) for the convenience, and in the case of business people probably claim it back from the taxman.

Neither have any of the hotels we've visited her in had modern decor , nor clients that did not want their comfort in the traditional style, etc etc She has a budget to spend like all departments everywhere.

 

So we appreciate a bargain if one comes our way but over here they are few and far between..we know what we pay , and we have cruising friends in the states who have often said their prices are so much less than we have to find. You don't get that many people here who treat cruising so casually.

 

Anyway to get back to the main story..it isn't resentment that gets us.... it's those who know the score expected of them and sign up to cruise, but with no intention of complying with what is expected of them that spoil it for us... we try to comply because we want to not because we are forced. I don't feel disenfranchised because I am being made to do something I did not want to do anyway...I'm willing to do as requested. They aren't , and you have to question why they are so desperate to cruise then?

[2sunny]

I saw a PBS show the other evening all about the 1964 World's Fair, held in New York and attended by over 52 million people worldwide. As such, they showed many, many videos and montages of the crowds of people attending the fair. You would not believe how elegantly EVERYONE was dressed. And I mean everyone...all the hundreds and thousands of people shown walking around. There were NO JEANS, at all, worn by anybody. And not one person was dressed as would be considered "sloppily" or "inappropriately" - there were no tank tops, halter tops, low cut blouses, loose baggy jeans (actually, again... NO jeans), or anything of a "revealing nature". Most men (and boys) wore neatly-pressed pants and dress shirts.. many with jackets and ties. Nearly all women wore skirts, dresses, slacks, and very nice blouses. Everyone looked as though they dressed preparing to go to church, or a catered affair, or any other type of elegant event. It was truly astonishing, and refreshing, to see.

 

I KNOW that times have changed….. and I KNOW that many people would hate to be restricted and expected to dress this way in public anymore…. but I must admit, by watching this show, you could see how dramatically the standards of dress have changed over the years.

 

I'm just describing these observances about how people dressed back then to offer a reason, perhaps, why some people are so passionate about cruise lines maintaining a higher standard of dress code aboard their ships. I do believe that some people, including me, would actually LIKE to try to recreate an environment where people dressed as they once did - go back to a time when an ambiance of elegance and refinement was delineated – in some part - by the way people dressed. And wish that cruise lines would try to preserve this.

 

DISCLAIMER!!! J please note that I believe that most people DO adhere, perfectly, to acceptable dress etiquette….. but there’s always that guy in front of you in line at the lunch buffet wearing nothing but sweaty shorts….. no shirt.. no shoes.. just the shorts. YIKES!

 

- Rick

 

You are SO SO right! One of my favorites is the guy in front of me in the breakfast buffet line in the ship bathrobe (which says not to wear our of your room;)). Now you can tell that he has NOT showered, NOT combed his hair, what do you think the chances are that he washed his hands?!?

AND his JUST put his hands in the rolls basket! - I wonder what he has been doing with those hands all night?

 

When we pack for a cruise we do not even consider packing jeans. I truly, truly wish that cruise ships would just say 'NO JEANS"!!!:D

[2sunny]

Times did change. Personally I think a pair of $400 Armani jeans is a lot dressier than a $100 Ross Dress For Less Tuxedo.

 

I don't - Just because you spent $400 on them does not change the fact that they are jeans. It just means that someone a lot smarter than you suckered YOU into spending $400 of your money by putting THEIR name on them!:eek: It does not change the fact that they are 'jeans'

 

Sturgeon eggs are sturgeon eggs - someone puts them in a fancy can, calls them caviar and charges a fortune for them and gets rich. They are still fish eggs!

[2sunny]

You obviously do not have any idea of the prices we save up to pay to cruise over here! We do not get cheap deals / cheap flights nor residency discounts at al.

I have paid much more for a 12 night cruise in the Med. with a 3 hour flight time (even as a last minute deal) than the cost of a B2B 21 night Caribbean cruise with a 9 hour plus flight out to MIA from London after buying a flight from Scotland to London first, an overnight hotel in FLL , an 8 hour plus flight back to London and the return flight to Scotland to pay for after that combined with the cost of the cruise itself.

So don't try to tell me that cruisers are not paying 5* prices .......why do you think Celebrity leaves most of its ships over here for so long in the year ...they make a bomb and they are not just filled with Americans paying top dollar!

I've stayed in a suite ...it was NOT any upgrade...I paid for it as priced.

 

We also know quite a lot about British hotel prices through our family member with current experience... the hotels she has been employed in have clientele..., tourists, business clients ..and they pay ( or the company does) for the convenience, and in the case of business people probably claim it back from the tax man.

Neither have any of the hotels we've visited her in had modern decor , nor clients that did not want their comfort in the traditional style, etc etc She has a budget to spend like all departments everywhere.

 

So we appreciate a bargain if one comes our way but over here they are few and far between..we know what we pay , and we have cruising friends in the states who have often said their prices are so much less than we have to find. You don't get that many people here who treat cruising so casually.

 

Anyway to get back to the main story..it isn't resentment that gets us.... it's those who know the score expected of them and sign up to cruise, but with no intention of complying with what is expected of them that spoil it for us... we try to comply because we want to not because we are forced. I don't feel disenfranchised because I am being made to do something I did not want to do anyway...I'm willing to do as requested. They aren't , and you have to question why they are so desperate to cruise then?

 

Thank you for posting this! "we try to comply because we want to "

We are Americans, and try hard to not be "Ugly Americans" like so many others. We too comply because we want to! What I do not understand is why people book on a cruise line when they have no intention of following the rules? Why not book on Carnival or NCL they do not have such guidelines, they do not have formal nights? They are very nice cruise lines, they just have a much more relaxed dress code, why don't they cruise the line that suits them and fits what they do want to do?

[woodofpine]

You obviously do not have any idea of the prices we save up to pay to cruise over here! We do not get cheap deals / cheap flights nor residency discounts at al.

 

I've checked a couple of UK travel agent websites... You're paying 120-150 pounds (for veranda cabins and aqua class up) pp per diem in the Med, possibly less (definately much less for lower cabin classes). That's less than $500US per day per couple for lodging/food/entertainment/ship transport.

 

Sorry, $500 doesn't get you a 5* hotel in the UK (room alone). I was in Ireland in April. Even pub grub food prices were astounding.

 

So - yes - I will tell you cruisers are not paying 5* lodging/restaurant prices.

 

So don't try to tell me that cruisers are not paying 5* prices........

 

Didn't I JUST tell you that!:rolleyes:

 

I don't feel disenfranchised because I am being made to do something I did not want to do anyway...

 

The TRUTH is out! A Closet Casual Queen!! I KNEW it!:D:eek::D

 

I'm willing to do as requested. They aren't, and you have to question why they are so desperate to cruise then?

 

I'll ask them next go round. I suspect they're like you and I. Value freaks... that are done with formalware...

[cvaty]

AND his JUST put his hands in the rolls basket! - I wonder what he has been doing with those hands all night?

Did you find out?!

[jackdiamond]

2Sunny-I concur in your observations. There is always Carnival or NCL for those folks who take umbrage at the Celebrity dress codes.

[hcat]

I can only speak for myself...a 15% fall off two years ago would not impact my cruise, but at 15% fall off with the further widening of the two distinct forms of dress concerns me, its the idea that given the even more comfortable/casual standard I see many more posts questioning how the barest minimum can be met and fewer posts with the tell me what I need to do to get it right. I hope I am not imagining that or being too cynical.

 

Several years ago when we were enjoying some time on Royal ships, that fall off was pretty shocking since it was closer to a majority fall off and I have to say I felt out of place and over dressed. That was not a good experience for me and I hope that over time the same does not occur again on Celebrity. If it does, I will have to weigh all that Celebrity offers and if it still stacks up pretty good, them I just might have to start not giving a s***. ;)

 

Yes--on Royal C recently there are many men with sleeveless T shirts (we call them "wife beaters", the shirts ,that is) & hairy armpits in the buffet..Kind of makes the appetite wane! have not yet seen this on X & hope I never do!

[palamoh]

What interesting comments, I do very much agree w/the poster who relates to dress being from generation to generation. My wife and I do love to travel on the Silversea lines which has a very formal dress atmosphere, we both enjoy to look as elegent as we can. But on the other end of the spectrum, we very much enjoy the atmosphere on the Amazara Cruise Lines which has a very casual approach. Although most nights my husband wears a Sport Coat with a nice dress shirt, if we eat in their Specialty Rests. or the Main Dinning Room. To each their own when it comes down to Dressing accordingly. But please Levi's in Specialty Rests, you folks do yourself's a diservice by dressing in this manner.

[scoobysteve]

Woofofpine! You are quickly turning into my hero!!:D Palamoh, please define Levis.

[lucky white heather]

I've checked a couple of UK travel agent websites... You're paying 120-150 pounds (for veranda cabins and aqua class up) pp per diem in the Med, possibly less (definately much less for lower cabin classes). That's less than $500US per day per couple for lodging/food/entertainment/ship transport.

 

Sorry, $500 doesn't get you a 5* hotel in the UK (room alone). I was in Ireland in April. Even pub grub food prices were astounding.

 

So - yes - I will tell you cruisers are not paying 5* lodging/restaurant prices.

 

 

 

Didn't I JUST tell you that!:rolleyes:

 

 

 

The TRUTH is out! A Closet Casual Queen!! I KNEW it!:D:eek::D

 

 

 

I'll ask them next go round. I suspect they're like you and I. Value freaks... that are done with formalware...

 

 

 

This is definitely the last post from me on this subject..it's done to death...you find me a price from Scotland that matches with one priced even from London... and compare it to your cheap cruises in the US.

We don't get much choice in airlines.. or destinations even from our capital city here.

We did a 12 night Med. cruise last Nov ( Summit) ..the cheapest time ... end of the season just before the ships go home... the total cost for that in an indifferent cabin was £1500 + each with a 3 / 4 hour flight time via London as usual of course.... you calculate that in dollars.

 

In March this year we did a B2B ....21 nights cruising in the Caribbean with a multi flight package and 3 nights pre cruise in the Embassy Suites (through the cruiseline..not Priceline or similar). and note if you want to extend your pre cruise "free" one night obligatory hotel , the "free" night is removed and they make you pay for it plus the excess nights.

 

Contrast this choice with a 12 night Transatlantic ( same ship) just after our cruises finished ....with a flight EDI /LHR / MIA , 1 overnight hotel FLL , join the ship sail back to England, fly back to EDi..

 

Flight portion costs on the B2B £600 return each .

 

Flight portion on the T/A with a 1 hour flight home LGW to EDI... £900 each.

It was £300 pp cheaper to do the 2 TRANSATLANTIC FLIGHTS OF THOUSANDS OF MILES each way THAN ONE TRANSATLANTIC AND ONE HOUR FLIGHT TO EDI FROM LGW.

 

The stateroom costs were cheap...just over £500 odd pp each leg ( 10 and 11) of the B2B . If we got prices like that over here we'd be laughing all the way to the bank.

 

Currently the 14 day Baltic cruise....on Constellation ex Harwich on 22nd August... we'd like to do it but the cost is ( if any cabins are left that are not inside ) over £2000 per skull.Even guarantees are just under £2000 a skull.

Even if we drove to the port with an overnight to consider as well because its so far, we'd have to pay almost £1 a litre for petrol..and add that into the equation ... you have no idea!

We could fly to LGW and hopefully get a ship transfer thrown in to join the ship but the domestic flight costs are expensive even through the cruiseline who get (sometimes! ) the best fare price ... you have no idea of what it costs to cruise from here..it isn't the per diem price that worries us its the global figure.

 

 

And to get back to the original point...for that kind of money I'm looking for the same commitment to the cruise from others as I give ... because at these prices it is not a "CASUAL just fill in the time" type vacation for us.

I used to do the Spanish costas years ago and walk around in clean T shirt and shorts at night..casual style.... been there done that bought the TShirt as they say...don't want to do that juvenile stuff anymore...I want the grown up experience with some nice people similarly dressed to ourselves and with the same reasons to cruise that we have.

 

I've never wanted to have Armani or other designer jeans to show them off..can't see them as anything except un-dressy items...even if it offends those who think they are the absolute "must haves" .....I like to dress appropriately to the occasion and call me old fashioned but casual clothes don't fit the bill for me if I am requested to "dress up" .

 

End of!

[woodofpine]

My oh my, that was a lot of number crunching...

 

Ahem...

 

Didn't you forget something... (throat scratch - twice...)

 

 

Let's see... unlike CC posters:

 

1) they ALWAYS dress appropriately;

2) they NEVER talk back...

 

Of course, YOU'd NEVER forget THEM!! :D;):D

 

Enjoy your cruise.:)

[lucky white heather]

I said I would not comment further but just have to draw your attention to another anomaly apart from you getting cheaper prices than we do and how we have to fork out 5* prices every trip!

Look at the new cancellation policy for UK cruisers...new thread.

 

We fortunately have never had to / or wanted to cancel one cruise in favour of another .. but even if we did now , we'll have to pay a substantial fee to do so!

North American cruisers can cancel entirely, have a complete refund and switch their cruises, all for no penalty , unlike the rest of the nations.

 

I still believe I am paying 5 * prices for Celebrity cruises over here ..if I booked with a US /TA (as I have been advised to do time without number by other Brits who do this primarily to get your cheaper prices and booking conditions) I could pay much less and still get the same cruise...

 

Personally I think I should have been awarded my own reserved seat in any lifeboat on any Celebrity ship after the outlay I've put into Celebrity!

 

This is way off the point of the thread but it is another standard that divides us.

[Denny01]

OK, I've got to go home now. My head just exploded from these last posts. I'd suggest we all go to other threads and let this one die. We are now compleletly off course.

 

Denny