Problem getting off the Emerald Princess in St. Pete.

[cruisemom42]

Lee Anne, if you read this entire thread closely, as well as the insightful link to the tripadvisor site, I think you'll come to the same conclusion that I have -- namely, it's not just Princess who have changed their procedure this year, but several other lines as well, including Celebrity and RCCL -- all of whom appear to use the same Russian agency for their shore excursions. The agency appears to be the source of the letter.

 

It does appear that Princess is one of the more aggressive enforcers, but they are not the only ones. I have posted several time to a similar thread on the Princess board about this (as my sister is cruising the Baltics on Emerald Princess and is greatly concerned) and I think everyone on ANY of the involved lines should do likewise and make a fuss. I honestly don't know if the cruise line is entirely to blame, but at a minimum I think they are culpable to the extent that they have taken this letter and supposed "change" at face value rather than investigating the truth of the situation.

[Leejnd4]

Cynthia, I fuly agree with you. I just read that Azamara is using some of the same tactics. It's distressing.

 

I do believe that part of the problem stems from the tour operator, but I feel that those who would absolve the cruiselines of blame are being disingenuous and naïve. It is the cruiselines' JOB to know the laws and documentation requirements related to touring at all the ports they visit. Further, simple logic will tell you that they do know full well what the truth is, and what they are doing. Clearly nobody who.bypasses their intimidation is getting arrested or even slowed down by the Russian authorities. They know this.

[tally10]

Cynthia, I fuly agree with you. I just read that Azamara is using some of the same tactics. It's distressing.

 

I do believe that part of the problem stems from the tour operator, but I feel that those who would absolve the cruiselines of blame are being disingenuous and naïve. It is the cruiselines' JOB to know the laws and documentation requirements related to touring at all the ports they visit. Further, simple logic will tell you that they do know full well what the truth is, and what they are doing. Clearly nobody who.bypasses their intimidation is getting arrested or even slowed down by the Russian authorities. They know this.

 

All of this is very upsetting, even though our private tour is in May 2010. DH has sent emails to Celebrity/RCCL and also to the travel writer with the Arizona Republic. I think more people need to write and protest and then maybe the various cruiselines who utilize this tour company (Arctur) and are going along with this rouse, will backoff rather than lose potential passengers. The link to the article on TripAdvisor.com shows how widespread this is but also brings it to more people's attention. Baltic cruises are not cheap and is this the impression the cruise lines want to leave with their passengers?

[Leejnd4]

I agree that one way we passengers can counter this is by starting an information campaign of our own. Write to the travel editor of your local paper...post to travel sites like this and other cruise-related message boards...send letters to well-known travel blogs such as Tripso or Christopher Elliott. The only way they will stop these tactics is if they are shamed into it.

 

Y'know, I also wanted to mention that Arctur Tours was also the tour operator that did the ship-sponsored tours on my cruise on Crystal Symphony. Yet we did NOT receive that intimidating letter. They may have tried to pull the same BS to our ship's shorex crew, but clearly they didn't pass it onto us. We were treated with total respect and dignity.

 

So again, for those who would put the blame entirely on the local tour op and absolve the ship or cruise line...don't be dense. The ship knows EXACTLY what they are doing.

[gdayhoff]

Regardless of who wrote the letter if it on a cruiseline letterhead than that cruiseline is responsible.I beleive Princess and RCCL are the worst.

[noteasilyimpressed]

Good grief! I am very disheartened to learn about others having such a hard time disembarking; it really seems like Princess went out of their way to give people a difficult time on this one. I sailed Holland America's Eurodam, July 12th; no problem whatsoever with disembarkation. I was due to meet our DenRus group at 7;15 am, for a 7;30 departure and we all had no trouble--as a matter of fact, ours was the first bus leaving the terminal! If I had encountered this much resistance by the ship's crew I don't know whether I would have the 'intestinal fortitude' that many of you all did to assert, correctly, that you could disembark. Kudos to you who stood your ground--and those that didn't, I certainly won't blame you. Who wants to be threatened with jail in Russia? Not me!:eek:

 

I understand that the cruise lines make money off the ships tours. However, if they understand that private tours are the wave of the future, they will simply need to increase the base rate for the cabins to compensate for that loss of revenue. If they need to protect their bottom line, that's the most logical solution, and not harassing people who elect a private tour. It will only haunt them later, when they have disgruntled previous customers, who vow not to cruise with them again.

 

I can definitely say I was very happy with Holland's handling of the disembarkation; it was handled without prejudice toward ship's tours.

[sondi 14]

We took the Baltic Cruise with Princess, which I am reading is one of the worst offenders when it comes to not allowing passengers of the ship in

St. Petersburg. We were on the Tahitian Princess, which is the same ship as the Azamara ships, and we had no problem disembarking in St. Pete's. We just went down to the gangway at 7:10am and waited until they had it set up and were cleared to allow passengers off. We were among the first 15 or so passengers to disembark and no one asked us if we were on a ship's tour or not. We had booked with Anastasia and knew to just go ahead and get off the ship as early as possible. I didn't hear of any intimidation on our cruise, but perhaps it's because we were on one of the smaller ships with fewer passengers than Princess' larger ships.

[Leejnd4]

Sondra, I'm happy to hear you didn't have any problems disembarking. Neither did we. It's good to know that it's not universal across all cruise lines, or even across all Princess ships. It does underscore the fact that the ones that ARE giving independent tour pax a hard time are clearly not doing it because they really believe the BS from those letters. If Princess really believed it, they would be enforcing it fleet-wide.

[Tucker in Texas]

I read somewhere on cruise critic where a woman who had heard about being hassled getting off for an independent tour until after the ship's tours collected tour stickers from passengers on previous tours and then slapped one on her front and walked off with others with like colored tour stickers.

 

Tucker in Texas

[jean s]

It sounds like HAL is handling the tours in St. Petersburgh correctly. We have never cruised on HAL but I don't want to deal with the nonsense on Princess. Unfortunately they did not think this entire situation through. This is the type of situation where companies lose loyal customers. I don't like the idea that I would have to be "assertive" to get off the ship. This is a vacation that I have saved for and planned and I refuse to be uncomfortable because of a cruise ship that tries to intimidate. HAL may have some new customers.

[tjunmin]

I find difficult to understand that some cruise lines are willing to damage an established customer relationship with their passengers, just because of revenue generated in one port. It is very easy for passengers to switch cruise lines. It is difficult and expensive to repair a customer relationship once the trust has been broken and the relationship has been damaged. It should be obvious that the short term gain harassing passengers to do ship tour excursions in St. Petersburg is not worth risking the long term gains of having passengers returning to their ships in future voyages.

 

If some cruise lines were mislead by the tour operator regarding the Russian immigration law, I believe by now they would have found out and stopped harassing passengers. The Trip Advisor article posted on this thread is from 2005. It means that for the last four years, some cruise lines have been disseminating incorrect information to passengers, and the practice continues.

[Kaktus]

We were on July 4-6 with Azamara Journey in St. Petersburg, booked a tour with Denrus and as soon as the ship was cleared we were allowed to dissembark. Our bus left as scheduled. The Journey is a small ship, docks in the River just before the first bridge, and stays 3 days in St. Pete.

[TysonsTraveler8]

Hi--

 

My husband and I will be traveling on the Emerald Princess on 8/4 and we are very concerned about disembarking in St Petersburg, based on these and other posts we have read on CC (we have booked an Alla tour).

 

So, we called Princess tonight (8:00 EST), and they are denying there is ANY problem with disembarkation in St Petersburg, and even went so far as to say that Princess has never heard of any problem at all at this port in 10 years. I was stunned. I pointed out to the agent at Princess that there have been many posts on CC suggesting there is a problem there. The agent said that she would place a note on our booking that we need to get off the ship by 7 (our tour starts at 7:30). She also said to check at the front desk to confirm. I find all this very highly suspect and I wonder what to expect when we dock in St Pete on 8/8.

 

Curious about thoughts from others (particularly from those who took the Emerald to St Pete this summer).

 

Thanks,

 

TysonsTraveler8

[Grannycb]

I'm not surprised at the response you were given. It's just as true as the statements we heard on the ship.

[cruisemom42]

Hi--

 

My husband and I will be traveling on the Emerald Princess on 8/4 and we are very concerned about disembarking in St Petersburg, based on these and other posts we have read on CC (we have booked an Alla tour).

 

So, we called Princess tonight (8:00 EST), and they are denying there is ANY problem with disembarkation in St Petersburg, and even went so far as to say that Princess has never heard of any problem at all at this port in 10 years. I was stunned. I pointed out to the agent at Princess that there have been many posts on CC suggesting there is a problem there. The agent said that she would place a note on our booking that we need to get off the ship by 7 (our tour starts at 7:30). She also said to check at the front desk to confirm. I find all this very highly suspect and I wonder what to expect when we dock in St Pete on 8/8.

 

Curious about thoughts from others (particularly from those who took the Emerald to St Pete this summer).

 

Thanks,

 

TysonsTraveler8

 

As much as I enjoy cruising with Princess (and I do), I find the folks who answer the phones to be pretty clueless. Time and again I have been given incorrect information from them, ranging from annoying (wrong info about our room set-up) to downright concerning (wrong info about the need for visas).

 

So....take what Princess says with a grain of salt. ;)

 

P.S. Of course, it could also be the case that they have gotten enough negative feedback and have stopped the charade of holding private tour passengers back. One can hope so!

[mk0520]

My husband & I are on the Baltic 9-3 sailing. I E-mailed princess with my concerns regarding Private Tours in St. Petersburg on 7-20. I did receive a confirmation that they received my e-mail & that I should receive a response within 2-4 weeks. This was a auto-generated response that they must send to everyone that e-mails them.

TysonsTraveler8- I would be really interested to know what happens to you on your 8-4 Baltic Cruise.

Have a wonderful Cruise. We will be thinking of you.

[doktor]

As much as I enjoy cruising with Princess (and I do), I find the folks who answer the phones to be pretty clueless. Time and again I have been given incorrect information from them, ranging from annoying (wrong info about our room set-up) to downright concerning (wrong info about the need for visas).

 

So....take what Princess says with a grain of salt. ;)

 

P.S. Of course, it could also be the case that they have gotten enough negative feedback and have stopped the charade of holding private tour passengers back. One can hope so!

Amen to Princess agents being clueless! It took me over one week, and hours on the phone, prior to our trip to the Far East this past April to get our three day tour in Beijing correct. I finally wrote a letter to the President and got some attention. I would suggest not talking with the folks who answer the phone, "they have not a clue".

 

Sandy

[Dave and Micha]

Hi--

 

My husband and I will be traveling on the Emerald Princess on 8/4 and we are very concerned about disembarking in St Petersburg, based on these and other posts we have read on CC (we have booked an Alla tour).

 

So, we called Princess tonight (8:00 EST), and they are denying there is ANY problem with disembarkation in St Petersburg, and even went so far as to say that Princess has never heard of any problem at all at this port in 10 years. I was stunned. I pointed out to the agent at Princess that there have been many posts on CC suggesting there is a problem there. The agent said that she would place a note on our booking that we need to get off the ship by 7 (our tour starts at 7:30). She also said to check at the front desk to confirm. I find all this very highly suspect and I wonder what to expect when we dock in St Pete on 8/8.

 

Curious about thoughts from others (particularly from those who took the Emerald to St Pete this summer).

 

Thanks,

 

TysonsTraveler8

 

 

I continue to be fascinated by this topic and the various stories that are coming in.

 

I am NOT AT ALL surprised that the reservation agent who answered at the 800 number had never heard of anything before because they are call center employees who basically take the reservations and have nothing at all to do with the day to day running of the line...nor would they EVER be allowed to utter anything but the party line.

 

It distresses me though to know that cruise lines are lying on such a grand scale. We had a HUGE problem with HAL and a sailing on the Ryndam in March of 2007 and their out and out lies regarding the Norovirus on board, as well as with a subsequent sailing we had booked (the ship we booked had been listed on the Center for Disease Control List of ships with significant cases of the virus, yet the call center denied there was even any on board.)

 

Last Wednesday when the Eurodam was in port I had the pleasure of meeting about 100 of its passengers here in Warnemünde. Every single one of them told me that they had booked the cruise line's tour in St Petersburg because they had been told that they would have to get their own visas if they booked a private tour at a cost of $200 per person or more. When I told them that the independent tour providers include the visa in their tours they looked at me like I had just told them the world was round.

 

It was a HUGE reiteration of how important Cruise Critic and we members are. It also made me angry that a cruise line would LIE in order to intimidate its customers rather than offer a good product and sell it on its merits.

 

In a time of great financial and business change, it becomes more and more important to listen to what your customers are saying. If the financial crisis has taught me anything, it is that you can't just keep packaging mass product and ignore the needs and wants of your customers. Clearly, people are tired of being shoved onto buses with 50 other people, jamming into the same places one after another, with very little personal attention and lots of regimentation. Since there are more and more alternatives in all the cruise ports, it also seems that many out here are listening to what cruisers want.

 

If cruise lines really are reading these threads, then it would be a good idea to dialogue with the people who are writing their concerns instead of just giving canned responses and an on board credit coupon for a future cruise and actually make some changes.

 

I for one... love listening to you all out there! Keep it up!

[MarkBearSF]

Interesting. Especially since I was on that cruise. Onboard, there was no lying and no funny business disembarking. Likewise, the excursions director didn't make stuff up either.

 

Looking at the excursions booklet, there was no mention - so I wondered, where did this consistent misinformation come from? I found it. Tricky wording that is not quite incorrect, but totally omits any mention of guided non-ship tours. On the info sheet I was sent is the following:

 

"A Russian visa is required, only for those guests who wish to explore St. Petersburg on their own. Guests participating on a Holland America Line-sponsored shore excursion are not required to obtain a Russian visa prior to sailing"

 

Since I've been on various cruise forums for years, I knew of the third-party options and never noticed the omission.

 

So although the Eurodam wasn't as deceptive as many ships - that HAL document still ain't quite right.

 

(Dave and Micha - it's also likely that the more adventurous cruisers were still in Berlin or, like us - were so tired that they bypassed the celebration dockside - so those you encountered were more likely to go with the ship's offerings)

 

...but oh boy, all-in-all it was a wonderful cruise!!!

[orchid72]

Wow! All I can say is: "and I thought my experience with NCL was bad!"

 

We sailed on the NCL Jewel just this past May (2nd Baltic sailing of the season). I was infuriated by the way they handled our disembarkation (you can read my review of the NCL Jewel on here on CC). BUT it seems NCL listens to their passengers and takes our suggestions seriously.

 

It seems that NCL's St. Pete's disembarkation procedures have gotten progressively better the next few sailings after ours, and they have actually taken their passengers' comments/suggestions seriously - they may even have implemented my suggestion the very next sailing. (:oWell, I can't say for sure *I* was the only one who made the suggestion because others may have very well made the same suggestion, but the bottom line is, they did change their procedures for the better, and it seems they were listening to their passengers).

 

After our St. Pete's experience, I swore I would never sail NCL again, but after reading all the passengers' accounts from subsequent sailings and finding out that their experiences have improved dramatically, I must admit that NCL has redeemed itself in my eyes. Consequently, I have decided I will cruise with NCL again - I have respect for companies who listen to their customers and really make the effort to make their customers' experiences better.

 

Princess passengers, keep complaining to Princess and let your voices be heard. Who knows? Maybe they will take a cue from NCL.

[Dave and Micha]

Interesting. Especially since I was on that cruise. Onboard, there was no lying and no funny business disembarking. Likewise, the excursions director didn't make stuff up either.

 

Looking at the excursions booklet, there was no mention - so I wondered, where did this consistent misinformation come from? I found it. Tricky wording that is not quite incorrect, but totally omits any mention of guided non-ship tours. On the info sheet I was sent is the following:

 

"A Russian visa is required, only for those guests who wish to explore St. Petersburg on their own. Guests participating on a Holland America Line-sponsored shore excursion are not required to obtain a Russian visa prior to sailing"

 

Since I've been on various cruise forums for years, I knew of the third-party options and never noticed the omission.

 

So although the Eurodam wasn't as deceptive as many ships - that HAL document still ain't quite right.

 

(Dave and Micha - it's also likely that the more adventurous cruisers were still in Berlin or, like us - were so tired that they bypassed the celebration dockside - so those you encountered were more likely to go with the ship's offerings)

 

...but oh boy, all-in-all it was a wonderful cruise!!!

 

 

Hi Mark!! So glad you had a great time and sorry you didn't get off in Warnemünde! We got the chance to meet Pam Ann that afternoon in town along with several of your sailing mates - I was SO jealous not to be with you all! What a friggin HOOT and it made my day! For any of you CCers that don't know Pam Ann... go to You Tube and search her... hilarious! Pam Ann would get those ship disembarkation problems handled!

[merrilyanne]

I just returned from a Celebrity Baltic cruise. Two days before reaching St. PSB, we got a letter left on our bed stating we had to wait an hour and a half until all of the Celebrity tours disembarked.

 

Long story short:

 

- I spent two days in line ups at the purser's desk trying to sort out this mess - basically, Celebrity lied. It ruined my entire cruise as I was up so late trying to sort it out. They said they were just following Russian Immigration orders, but I pointed out to them that the letter did not mention Russian Immigration, and was not even from them. I pointed out that the bogus letter was not even signed. I also pointed out that it merely said something about the Port Authority "agreeing with Celebrity's request" that only the Celebrity tours get off first. Obviously this has come from Celebrity, and the Port Authority was simply saying they would agree to what Celebrity wanted.

 

-several passengers were able to contact Russian Immigration and they said it had nothing to do with them.

 

- two of our private tour passengers were refusing to try to get off the ship at 7 a.m. while the rest of us wanted to attempt it, so it caused great discord and upset within the group.

 

- we didn't know if the tour operator would wait for hours for us, given we had not been required to pay ahead of time. For all they knew, we had decided not to take a tour with them, or that we were sick and not getting off the ship - or never came on the cruise in the first place.

 

- it got very ugly at 7 a.m. when passengers were trying to get off the ship. Several female security employees on the stairs, got alarmed with the unruly crowd and let them go down the stairs. I was scared of a physical altercation. It was ugly. The passengers didn't understand that the ship had not been cleared yet, so they revolted, thinking they weren't being allowed off because of not being on a Celebrity tour. The security guy (a huge fellow) was yelling at the passengers who were calling him a liar. Did I mention it was really bad?

 

- Celebrity should be ashamed of themselves for ruining our cruise and our time in St. Petersburg. I was so tired with only two hours sleep, I could not focus my eyes to see the sites or take in what the tour guide was saying.

 

- I do not know why the private tour companies do not go to the Russian Immigration and tell them to send the cruise lines a letter that they can't do this to the passengers and use the Russian Immigration as an excuse.

 

So it is not just Princess pulling this trick.

[Grannycb]

Marilyn, I understand how you feel completely. When people ask how I enjoyed our cruise I don't know what to say. The mess getting off the ship tainted our opinion of the whole trip.

[tally10]

We are booked on a Baltic cruise in May of 2010. I have been giving this topic a lot of thought. My first reaction is why would the cruise lines want to alienate future potential customers with all of these horrible stories. After all, I am worried about getting off the ship for the private tour we have booked. Then it occured to me that maybe they WANT all of this bad publicity because people will think it is just not worth all of these hassles with the cruise lines (and Arctur) and will forego the private tours for ship's tours. This could also backfire as potential cruisers may choose the Mediterranean or British Isles cruises or just stay in the Carribbean or Alaska rather than deal with this. Any thoughts??

[Leejnd4]

We are booked on a Baltic cruise in May of 2010. I have been giving this topic a lot of thought. My first reaction is why would the cruise lines want to alienate future potential customers with all of these horrible stories. After all, I am worried about getting off the ship for the private tour we have booked. Then it occured to me that maybe they WANT all of this bad publicity because people will think it is just not worth all of these hassles with the cruise lines (and Arctur) and will forego the private tours for ship's tours. This could also backfire as potential cruisers may choose the Mediterranean or British Isles cruises or just stay in the Carribbean or Alaska rather than deal with this. Any thoughts??

 

Having just returned from my own Baltics cruise (on Crystal, which fortunately didn't give us any problems in port, but did give me bad information about the need for a visa), I also have given this whole topic a lot of thought.

 

I am horrified at all the unethical behavior that seems to surround docking in St. Petersburg. But I guess upon reflection, it's almost inevitable: tours there are very expensive - among the most expensive in the industry - and the profit margin is very high. In past years, only a small percentage of passengers knew enough, or were willing to do the pre-work necessary, to take private tours...and the options for private tours were limited and very expensive anyway.

 

However, the competition for our tour dollars has increased exponentially, the options have improved considerably both in terms of quality and price, and passengers have become more savvy, especially with resources like Cruise Critic available to teach us about our options. More of our tour dollars in St. P are flowing directly to St. P (via private tour operators) than ever before. This seems to have inspired more and more desperate measures by the cruise lines to stem the flow - false and misleading pre-cruise information, false information on the ship, and strong-arm tactics at the port.

 

To answer your questions specifically, here are my thoughts:

 

1. The percentage of passengers that will actually complain publicly, or in some way publicize, the cruise line's bad behavior in St. P remains small. Most pax still use the ship tours, and only a small fraction of passengers even know about Cruise Critic. So while these reports here, and on other message forums, may impact some cruisers' future decisions, the impact remains low...probably not enough to motivate the cruise lines to STOP doing what they are doing. They must assume that they will still make MORE money off the passengers they scare away from private tours, then they will lose from passengers who choose not to cruise them because of what they are doing.

 

2. While I don't think they want the bad publicity, I think the DO want the word to get out that trying to take a private tour in St. P is complicated and fraught with problems. So even though some disgruntled passengers ARE out there spreading the horror stories, you are correct that for the pax they DON'T scare away from the cruise altogether, many of them will simply avoid the unpleasantness by doing what the cruise lines want - taking their overpriced, crowded tours.

 

How do we fix this? The way I see it, nothing is going to change if there continues to only be this small percentage of grousing passengers here on Cruise Critic and similar forums. The word needs to get out to somebody in the media at large about this. A travel writer such as Christopher Elliott, or Tripso.com, would be start. I wrote both of them about my situation pre-cruise (in which I was lied to over the phone by Chrystal headquarters about needing an individual visa if I used a private guide), but they must not have found my story compelling enough.

 

If someone like those of you who were treated roughly or poorly by their cruise line would write to someone in the travel media, word might get out...and then the story might get picked up by the larger media. It would make a great expose article: dozens, if not hundreds, of passengers who's trip-of-a-lifetime cruises were ruined by unethical, immoral, bordering on violent behavior of the major cruise lines! The cruise line muckety-mucks would have to respond - an interview would take place in which they'll deny it, but an intrepid reporter could go on a cruise and get photos of the passengers being held for hours, and the burly security guards preventing them from leaving the ship. I can picture this article in my head, and would love to write it myself, but I have no contacts in travel-writing industry or I would. THIS type of publicity, by a major media outlet, would have an impact!

 

So that's my suggestion: those of you who had bad experiences - write to someone! Go on http://www.elliott.org, or http://www.tripso.com, and write to them. Or, go on http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032123/ns/travel and write to THEM to see if you can interest them in your story.

 

REAL publicity is the only thing that is going to stop this horrific behavior by the cruise lines.