Jones Act - this may be already out there, but new for me

I am booked B2B and was just visiting roll call - and it was mention that this is a no can do - I will be calling Carnival tomorrow - has any one done this or had to cancel plans - change plans - and or has Carnival worked something out - re : B2B cruises - any helpful info would be very appreciated - thank you -

We need more info... what are the embarkation, debarkation, and destination ports for both legs of your B2B?

This is what we booked - Hawaii to Vancouver

This is what we booked - Hawaii to Vancouver

well there is no problem booking Hawaii to Vancouver. Where did you hear that this had something to do with the Jones Act, actually PVSA.?

You mentioned something about a B2B? Is the Hawaii to Vancouver one cruise or 2?

Bill

Going on Hawaiian cruise, then the ship goes to Vancouver then sails to do Alaskian cruise -

Going on Hawaiian cruise, then the ship goes to Vancouver then sails to do Alaskian cruise -

If you start out in Hawaii and stay on in Vancouver and continue onto Alaska that is not allowed without stopping at a distant foreign port.

You are starting at one U.S. port and ending in another U.S. port. Even if it's 2 bookings, in the eyes of the gov't. it's considered one cruise.

I don't know the itinerary of the 2 cruises but one stop has to be a "distant" foreign port, not just a foreign port.

Bill

If you start out in Hawaii and stay on in Vancouver and continue onto Alaska that is not allowed without stopping at a distant foreign port.

 

You are starting at one U.S. port and ending in another U.S. port. Even if it's 2 bookings, in the eyes of the gov't. it's considered one cruise.

 

I don't know the itinerary of the 2 cruises but one stop has to be a "distant" foreign port, not just a foreign port.

 

Bill

It's not the continuing on to Alaska part that makes it illegal but rather the fact that the second leg ends in Seattle, so OP is effectively taking a cruise from Hawaii to Seattle, which is illegal under the PVSA without a stop in a distant foreign port.

If the second leg stops in Canada (e.g., Victoria) before returning to Seattle AND Carnival will let OP disembark there, that would not be a PVSA violation since the cruise would be effectively be from Hawaii to Canada.

Doing

HI- Vancouver,

Vancouver-Seattle

They don't look at it like two separate cruises. You're starting in HI and ending in Seattle.

Solution is to sail another line out of Vancouver.

FWIW The Jones Act is for stuff, Passenger Vessel Services Act (PVSA) is for people. Basically the same law but dealing with different cargo.

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Why doesn't the stop in Vancouver count as a foreign port? Why would a stop in Victoria count but not Vancouver?

And Carnival better give your money back, they should not allow these cruises to be booked back to back if it is against the law.

Why doesn't the stop in Vancouver count as a foreign port? Why would a stop in Victoria count but not Vancouver?

 

And Carnival better give your money back, they should not allow these cruises to be booked back to back if it is against the law.

Vancouver is in North America. The PVSA requires you to call at a "Distant" foreign port. In their world, that means a port on another continent.

Disembarking in Victoria would result in a cruise from Hawaii to Canada - which does not violate the PVSA rules.

Why doesn't the stop in Vancouver count as a foreign port? Why would a stop in Victoria count but not Vancouver?.

No port in Canada is a distant foreign port, which is the requirement for a foreign-flagged ship to provide transportation between two U.S. ports. If OP disembarks in Victoria and doesn't continue on to Seattle where the cruise officially ends, that would make the B2B a cruise from Hawaii to Victoria, which is not prohibited under the PVSA.

Why doesn't the stop in Vancouver count as a foreign port? Why would a stop in Victoria count but not Vancouver?

.

See posts #6 and #7. Sailing from Honolulu to Seattle requires stopping at a distant foreign port (distant being the catch word here). Neither Vancouver or Victoria are classified as distant foreign. They're foreign alright, but not distant foreign.

If the Honolulu to Vancouver leg were to stop in Victoria, someone could disembark there, make their own way to Vancouver, then rejoin the ship for the cruise to Seattle. This would then no longer be a true B2B and would be legal with regard to the PVSA (Passenger Vessel Services Act).

If Victoria would be the last port stop on the second leg just prior to ending in Seattle, one could disembark one day early in Victoria and not complete the last night to Seattle, again making the cruise "legal" having boarded in Honolulu.

I understand - what I don't get / understand is why then Carnival booked it - knowing this can not be done - - I will find out tomorrow -

I understand - what I don't get / understand is why then Carnival booked it - knowing this can not be done - - I will find out tomorrow -

Most likely because they are technically booked as two separate cruises, and even if you booked them over the phone at the same time, most sales associates are not well versed with this law. Of course, you would think that Carnival would make it so that some sort of flag would go off in their system as soon as someone tries to book both cruises.

Anyway, good luck! We are in the same roll call for the 4/30/17 Alaska sailing. I hope you don't have to cancel it! Please let us know how you make out.

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I understand - what I don't get / understand is why then Carnival booked it - knowing this can not be done - - I will find out tomorrow -

Do you have different booking numbers for each segment or just one that covers both cruises?

Do you have different booking numbers for each segment or just one that covers both cruises?

I'm 99.99% sure OP has 2 different booking numbers. That really doesn't come into play.

The only thing that matters is where you get on the ship for the first time and where you get off for the last time.

Bill

Do you have different booking numbers for each segment or just one that covers both cruises?

You always have two separate booking numbers with Carnival. Some other lines might book B2B's as one cruise, but Carnival does not. It's two separate cruises in their system.

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This issue comes up every year. Not only on Carnival but also HAL, Princess etc.

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Thank you all for the info - / and input - this may come every year - but my plans do not - got a education re: The Jones Act - ( not likely want to keep up with the Jones'es ) may be they should keep up with us - LOL, !

I will be contacting Carnival Cruise Line today. If I have to change my plans so be it - nothing could be as bad as this past year I went through - this is one of the little things - trust me -

“that non-US ports are classified as either "nearby foreign ports" or "distant foreign ports." Despite the name, a "nearby foreign port" means:

* any port in Canada

* any port in Mexico

* Bermuda

* any port in the Caribbean (except those in the Netherlands Antilles, such as Aruba and Curaçao)

A "distant foreign port" means any other port, except a U.S. port.

With those definitions in mind, here's what's allowed:

* A cruise which starts and ends in the same US port, visits a nearby or distant foreign port, and where no permanent disembarkation is permitted during the cruise at any US port (because there has been no transportation BETWEEN US ports (Huh?)

* A cruise between different US ports where no permanent disembarkation is permitted along the way, but at least one port is a nearby foreign port

* A cruise between US ports where permanent disembarkation IS allowed at a US port along the way, but only if the ship visits a distant foreign port and any permanent disembarkation takes place at a subsequent US port

* A "cruise to nowhere" from a US port where the ship travels beyond US territorial waters and keeps moving

* Any cruise which visits US ports but where no permanent disembarkation is allowed along the way and the cruise begins or ends at a distant or nearby foreign port

A reader paying careful attention at this point might say, "Hey, I can think of some cruises that don't fit into those exemptions." Well, that's because we haven't got to two more rules:

* The US Virgin Islands are presently exempt from the regulations, and may be treated as though its ports were "nearby foreign ports."

* Travel between the US mainland and Puerto Rico is allowed, provided that no eligible US vessel offers such service

The penalty for breaching the rules is a fine of $200 per passenger, even if the ship breaks the rules because of some emergency.

So, What's the Big Deal?

Suppose you were one of the passengers on the Statendam this year, going on the one-way cruise to Hawaii from San Diego (as opposed to the 16-day roundtrip). The round-trip cruisers got on and got off in San Diego, but the one-way passengers waved goodbye to the Statendam in San Diego, then hopped on a bus at the crack of dawn the next morning, bussed to Ensenada, Mexico, and then boarded the Statendam - all because of the PSA. The Statendam didn't even stay long enough for other passengers to go ashore for the day. Can such a silly routine make any sense?

"The Jones Act (also known as the Passenger Services Act) prohibits ships of Non-U.S registry from embarking and debarking guests at two different U.S ports. Such travel would constitute point-to-point transportation between two U.S ports, which is prohibited on foreign flagged ships."

You are traveling from Hawaii to Canada. You are then doing Vancouver and back? There is no issue.

"The Jones Act (also known as the Passenger Services Act) prohibits ships of Non-U.S registry from embarking and debarking guests at two different U.S ports. Such travel would constitute point-to-point transportation between two U.S ports, which is prohibited on foreign flagged ships."

 

You are traveling from Hawaii to Canada. You are then doing Vancouver and back? There is no issue.

The issue is that the 1st leg is Hawaii to Vancouver, the 2nd leg is Vancouver to Seattle. Therefore, passengers are being transported between 2 U.S. ports, Honolulu and Seattle.

The issue is that the 1st leg is Hawaii to Vancouver, the 2nd leg is Vancouver to Seattle. Therefore, passengers are being transported between 2 U.S. ports, Honolulu and Seattle.

The first cruise is Hawaii to Vancouver. Stop. Cruise over. Get off. new cruise starts. Vancouver to Seattle. Cruise done. This is why it is allowed. Or:

With those definitions in mind, here's what's allowed:

* A cruise which starts and ends in the same US port, visits a nearby or distant foreign port, and where no permanent disembarkation is permitted during the cruise at any US port (because there has been no transportation BETWEEN US ports (Huh?)

* A cruise between different US ports where no permanent disembarkation is permitted along the way, but at least one port is a nearby foreign port

I am booked B2B and was just visiting roll call - and it was mention that this is a no can do - I will be calling Carnival tomorrow - has any one done this or had to cancel plans - change plans - and or has Carnival worked something out - re : B2B cruises - any helpful info would be very appreciated - thank you -

Unless you are planning on sailing as cargo, it's not the Jones Act that is affecting you; it's the Passengers Vessel Act.

The first cruise is Hawaii to Vancouver. Stop. Cruise over. Get off. new cruise starts. Vancouver to Seattle. Cruise done. This is why it is allowed. Or:

 

 

With those definitions in mind, here's what's allowed:

 

* A cruise which starts and ends in the same US port, visits a nearby or distant foreign port, and where no permanent disembarkation is permitted during the cruise at any US port (because there has been no transportation BETWEEN US ports (Huh?)

* A cruise between different US ports where no permanent disembarkation is permitted along the way, but at least one port is a nearby foreign port

I hope you are correct. I am also on the b2b sailing with the OP, so I'm REALLY interested in what Carnival has to say to her.