Passport Question

My DW and I will be on the Prinsedam next July. Our cruise goes to Oslo, Stockholm, Helsinki, St. Petersburg, Copenhagen, and Talinn and Warnemunde.

Will they take our passports at each port for customs, or will we go through customs/ immigration individually?

Will the procedure be different at each port?

Thanks for your help.

You will take your passport ashore in St Petersburg. You will also need a visa, or proof of coverage by a tour vender's visa. This is discussed on this board almost daily.

The other ports will not have any Immigration procedures, unless the port is your final port. By the way, Customs doesn't have anything to do with your passport, that is Immigration, or as it is commonly called in Europe, Passport Check. Customs has to do with what you are bringing in, or taking out of a country.

You may find the ship collects and retains your passports for some of the trip to make immigration clearance quicker but, if so, they will return them to you in time for St Petersburg.

My DW and I will be on the Prinsedam next July. Our cruise goes to Oslo, Stockholm, Helsinki, St. Petersburg, Copenhagen, and Talinn and Warnemunde.

 

Will they take our passports at each port for customs, or will we go through customs/ immigration individually?

 

Will the procedure be different at each port?

 

Thanks for your help.

Here's what happened on our recent Baltic cruise on Oceania.

When we checked in for the cruise, the check-in folks took our passports with the explanation that we would get them back on the ship the next day. The ship's personnel would use the time to make copies of our passports, one of which they would keep and one of which they would return to us along with the original. And that's exactly what happened. (Detail: the passports have to be picked up by someone in each cabin. The ship wisely is not leaving passports in staterooms or, worse yet, tucked in the door!!!)

You will have to clear Immigration (AKA Passport Control) arriving at the port of St. Petersburg. This is the only place where there will be a formal passport check. And I do mean formal. The passport officials will carefully study your documentation and that includes your passport. We entered the country under the visa of our private tour company so we also had to show Immigration copies of our ticket with the dates of the tours and the name and license number of the sponsoring tour agency.

Now, we get to the loosey-goosey part. Beginning with Amsterdam, our second port, the cruise director would announce that immigration officials for the upcoming port require that all cruisers carry their passports (ORIGINALS! NOT COPIES!) with them when they exit the ship. We followed the cruise directors directions that first time, but we were never asked for the passports either leaving or returning to the ship. We only had to show the ship's ID card to enter the port area. We didn't complain, but apparently, lots of other people did. The port after Amsterdam, the cruise director again announced we needed to bring our passports with us, adding, "Folks I'm only reporting what the officials are telling us. I'm required to pass along these instructions." After a couple more port calls where we were again told to bring our passports -- never once having needed them -- we stopped bringing the originals and only brought copies. We never got into trouble because no one ever looked at anything beyond of ship's ID.

Bottom line: Be fully prepared in Russia. Expect some slight delays exiting the ship the first day visiting St. Petersburg. Use your judgement about your passport all other days despite what your cruise director may be announcing.

As has been said, you have no need for passports in any port except St Petersburg.

Some people, like ourselves, just felt better having them with us instead of the room safe, so we always carried them. That is just us. Many leaver them on the ship and carry a photo copy.

You need something, not for immigration, but if something happened, you need some sort of passport/copy so you can proceed. Say you missed the ship because of an accident and you didn't have any sort of passport, how do you get to the next country?

If is up to each individual, what they feel most comfortable with.

Cheers

Len

My DW and I will be on the Prinsedam next July. Our cruise goes to Oslo, Stockholm, Helsinki, St. Petersburg, Copenhagen, and Talinn and Warnemunde.

 

Will they take our passports at each port for customs, or will we go through customs/ immigration individually?

 

Will the procedure be different at each port?

 

Thanks for your help.

See my reply in the "Holland America Cruises" forum based on the Baltic Cruise we finished just last week. Basically, you keep your passport the whole time.

I carry a copy of my passport with me at all times. The original I leave in the ship/hotel room safe.

The exception of course is St. Petersburg, where immigration will check them when you get on and off the ship.

Now, we get to the loosey-goosey part. Beginning with Amsterdam, our second port, the cruise director would announce that immigration officials for the upcoming port require that all cruisers carry their passports (ORIGINALS! NOT COPIES!) with them when they exit the ship. We followed the cruise directors directions that first time, but we were never asked for the passports either leaving or returning to the ship. We only had to show the ship's ID card to enter the port area. We didn't complain, but apparently, lots of other people did. The port after Amsterdam, the cruise director again announced we needed to bring our passports with us, adding, "Folks I'm only reporting what the officials are telling us. I'm required to pass along these instructions." After a couple more port calls where we were again told to bring our passports -- never once having needed them -- we stopped bringing the originals and only brought copies. We never got into trouble because no one ever looked at anything beyond of ship's ID.

 

Bottom line: Be fully prepared in Russia. Expect some slight delays exiting the ship the first day visiting St. Petersburg. Use your judgement about your passport all other days despite what your cruise director may be announcing.

The Schengen zone, to which all the ports on a Baltic cruise except St. Petersburg belong, abolishes regular border controls. However by law you are required to have your passport with you when crossing a border so your cruise director is very correct to say that you are required to have it. I would compare the requirement to that of having a driver's license with you when driving a car: more than 99% of the time you don't really need it, but should you need it and not have it with you, you will be facing some small trouble and possibly also a fine.

The Schengen zone, to which all the ports on a Baltic cruise except St. Petersburg belong, abolishes regular border controls. However by law you are required to have your passport with you when crossing a border so your cruise director is very correct to say that you are required to have it. I would compare the requirement to that of having a driver's license with you when driving a car: more than 99% of the time you don't really need it, but should you need it and not have it with you, you will be facing some small trouble and possibly also a fine.

Both options carry a risk. Risk of loss or pickpocketing for those who carry their original passport on their person. Risk of "small trouble and possibly also a fine" for those who leave their passports in the safe in the hotel/ship. Each person must decide what to do based on his/her own comfort level except, of course, when visiting Russia when the passport is a necessity.

Both options carry a risk. Risk of loss or pickpocketing for those who carry their original passport on their person. Risk of "small trouble and possibly also a fine" for those who leave their passports in the safe in the hotel/ship. Each person must decide what to do based on his/her own comfort level except, of course, when visiting Russia when the passport is a necessity.

Hotels and ships are very different in this matter. When you step off the ship without a passport you are entering a country without valid documents (unless the previous port was in the same country). Strictly speaking you are committing a crime entering a country without a passport though the likelihood of a targeted customs or border protection check on your ship is of course highly unlikely.

On what "small trouble and possibly a fine" means, I'll explain the Finnish system regarding this: If you were stopped at the border without a travel document you would be detained until your identity can be proven. Assuming your passport is in your cabin safe, the ship could get it to the officials in pretty short time. After this you would be fined for "minor national border crime" which typically caries a penalty of 15 day fines. Day fines are calculated with a formula from your monthly earnings with some reductions. 15 day fines ends up being about 1/4 of your monthly earnings. Other possibilities are denied entry or deportation, but those would not come to question in these cases where your passport quickly obtainable and you have the right to enter the country.

Hotels and ships are very different in this matter. When you step off the ship without a passport you are entering a country without valid documents (unless the previous port was in the same country). Strictly speaking you are committing a crime entering a country without a passport though the likelihood of a targeted customs or border protection check on your ship is of course highly unlikely.

 

On what "small trouble and possibly a fine" means, I'll explain the Finnish system regarding this: If you were stopped at the border without a travel document you would be detained until your identity can be proven. Assuming your passport is in your cabin safe, the ship could get it to the officials in pretty short time. After this you would be fined for "minor national border crime" which typically caries a penalty of 15 day fines. Day fines are calculated with a formula from your monthly earnings with some reductions. 15 day fines ends up being about 1/4 of your monthly earnings. Other possibilities are denied entry or deportation, but those would not come to question in these cases where your passport quickly obtainable and you have the right to enter the country.

Please understand you and I are looking at this issue from two very different public relations points of view. I'm confident that everything you've written is legal and accurate. I am, however, saying that I'm equally confident that few government officials of most countries would like to see headlines splashed across international newspapers about cruisers being penalized to the full extent legally possible.

The downside to the tourist economy seems to be much greater for a country who takes such a Draconian approach to tourists who disembark with only a copy of their passport than the benefit gained from collected fine.

I accept Russia's regulations in part because I'm willing to put up with those regulations to be able to visit the glories of St. Petersburg. The other reason is that I expect this sort of behavior from Russia.

I don't have such expectations from Finland. If I'm wrong... If you believe that Finland is a country that would happily pursue the harshest possible application of its passport/immigration laws, please let us know. Visitors deserve to know your country's national attitudes about carrying the originals of our passports.

As has been said, you have no need for passports in any port except St Petersburg.

 

Some people, like ourselves, just felt better having them with us instead of the room safe, so we always carried them. That is just us. Many leaver them on the ship and carry a photo copy.

 

You need something, not for immigration, but if something happened, you need some sort of passport/copy so you can proceed. Say you missed the ship because of an accident and you didn't have any sort of passport, how do you get to the next country?

 

If is up to each individual, what they feel most comfortable with.

 

Cheers

 

Len

Thank you Len for bringing a little sense into this discussion. Also Jonza for your explanation of the requirements re passports in Finland

Would someone please explain what is this problem about carrying your actual passport when in a foreign country?

A passport is not a sacred relic or a valulable piece of jewelry to be locked in a safe. It is a document issued by your government which is meant to be USED to prove your identity and your right, should the need arise, to help from the consular officials of the issuing country. It will not serve the purpose for which it was issued sitting in the safe in your cabin/hotel room and, if you follow the excellent advice from experienced travellers re safety precautions to be found on these threads,the chance of theft is very small indeed .

The fear of the illegal use of the details on your passport is vastly over rated! What information exactly is on your passport? Name, DOB, country of birth, a photo and a number which means absolutely nothing to anyone who does not have access to your Government's records. Passports are, these days, highly sophisticated and very difficult, if not impossible, to alter. It is a fact that most forged passports are created from blanks obtained illegally. If your passport is stolen a call to your consulate/embassy will make it useless although you, yourself will be issued with papers allowing you to continue your journey. This is where a copy comes in useful, you have all the details of the stolen document. It would be interesting to know just how common passport theft is. I would hazard a guess that credit cards and cash are of much more interest to the pickpocket and passports stolen inadvertently are simply thrown away. Even your driving licence contains more information about you than your passport does.

The OP who suggests that the authorities would not come down hard on tourists is probably right but surely, if we are visiting a country then we should have the courtesy to obey that country's laws.

And it is interesting to note that due to the huge number of illegal immigrants flooding into Europe some of the Shengen countries are tightening up on entry requirements. The borders are not being re-established (yet?) but Denmark at least is asserting its right to random border inspections, especially on the land border between Denmark and Germany. How long before some of the others follow suit as it is known that cruise ships have already been used as a method of entry.

Anni

You are absolutely right in the sense that you are not likely to be punished more hardly than necessary especially not to just collect fines. My belief would be that you would be let off with either a formal written warning or just an oral one, but you would still be stopped at the checkpoint until the ship brought you your passport. There was a somewhat similar issue couple of years back when targeted customs controls on ferries between Helsinki and Tallinn were somewhat tightened and the Finnish customs found an alarming number of passengers traveling with just their drivers license or no identification at all. First people were just warned, then they heavily publicized that they would start fining people without proper identification.

I have not heard of a single passport check on a cruise ship in Helsinki so this issue is at the moment very theoretical. I would assume that first shiploads without passports would just be warned and the cruise line contacted to better communicate the requirements, which of course would result in say your cruise director repeatedly announcing the requirement to carry a passport. Then if the same line repeatedly had passengers without passports, fining would start as clearly just a warning was not a deterrent enough.

Customs and border protection inside the Schengen are highly risk analysis based. These authorities receive your ship's manifest electronically before you arrive and if their systems identify a person or travel pattern fitting say a drug smuggler they will be there when you disembark. Normally they would not be asking IDs from everybody, but just from the people of the same general description as their target(s) or from someone acting suspiciously.

The other possibility is a Schengen entry or exit check as the previous or next port is St.Petersburg outside the zone. Here on Cruise Critic I have read accounts of people having the exit check in Tallinn. This is a systematic check of every passengers passports. Exit check takes place when you are returning to your ship to exit the Schengen zone and entry check naturally when you are entering the first port inside the zone. These checks may be omitted for cruise ships if risk is assumed "very low". Which seems to be the case almost always.

Would someone please explain what is this problem about carrying your actual passport when in a foreign country?... It is a document issued by your government which is meant to be USED to prove your identity and your right, should the need arise, to help from the consular officials of the issuing country....The fear of the illegal use of the details on your passport is vastly over rated!

My most precious commodity on any foreign trip is time. Replacing a lost passport -- whether lost by careless behavior on the owner's part or pick-pocketing -- takes time away from a traveler's chance to learn, experience, and savor.

And it is interesting to note that due to the huge number of illegal immigrants flooding into Europe some of the Shengen countries are tightening up on entry requirements. The borders are not being re-established (yet?) but Denmark at least is asserting its right to random border inspections, especially on the land border between Denmark and Germany. How long before some of the others follow suit as it is known that cruise ships have already been used as a method of entry.

I understand that the pendulum is swinging back with regard to border control policies, and I'm sensitive to any country's need to control the people who cross its borders. Frankly, I'd have no problem with Shengen countries re-establishing more formal passport control procedures as long as that step is coupled with an international trusted traveler program.

In the US, there are several different trusted traveler programs for different borders and for different methods of entry (e.g. car VS airplane) but they all work the same way. For a not-inconsequential fee the traveler agrees to be investigated, interviewed, fingerprinted, and photographed. If the individual is shown to be a person of integrity, he/she is issued a card that expedites entry back into the US.

Under the new reality with illegal immigration rising all over the world and terrorism an issue, I think it is reasonable to re-instate more border checks. Perhaps, put in one or two passport booths and do random passport checks, especially if countries recognize one another's trusted traveler program. (It is a far more rigorous process to get a trusted traveler card than to get a passport!)

Right now, we're in a transition period. Long time travelers have previously experienced passport checks with at least the fun of documenting our travels via stamps in our passport. I suspect this period of total absence of passport control in the Shengen countries will be modified or eliminated out of necessity.

My most precious commodity on any foreign trip is time. Replacing a lost passport -- whether lost by careless behavior on the owner's part or pick-pocketing -- takes time away from a traveler's chance to learn, experience, and savor.

 

Most people travel to learn, experience and savour but they also respect the laws of the country in which they are travelling and if this means carrying their passport as directed by their cruise line at the behest of the authorities, then so be it.

 

 

 

I understand that the pendulum is swinging back with regard to border control policies, and I'm sensitive to any country's need to control the people who cross its borders. Frankly, I'd have no problem with Shengen countries re-establishing more formal passport control procedures as long as that step is coupled with an international trusted traveler program.

Under the new reality with illegal immigration rising all over the world and terrorism an issue, I think it is reasonable to re-instate more border checks. Perhaps, put in one or two passport booths and do random passport checks, especially if countries recognize one another's trusted traveler program. (It is a far more rigorous process to get a trusted traveler card than to get a passport!)

Right now, we're in a transition period. Long time travelers have previously experienced passport checks with at least the fun of documenting our travels via stamps in our passport. I suspect this period of total absence of passport control in the Shengen countries will be modified or eliminated out of necessity.

 

This argument would mean that in the future we would have to carry our passports so why not do it now?

 

In the US, there are several different trusted traveler programs for different borders and for different methods of entry (e.g. car VS airplane) but they all work the same way. For a not-inconsequential fee the traveler agrees to be investigated, interviewed, fingerprinted, and photographed. If the individual is shown to be a person of integrity, he/she is issued a card that expedites entry back into the US.

 

I am not sure of the relevance of this program as it appears to be to facilitate the re-entry of US travellers to the US. Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

While on the subject of passports and visas. When I, as an Australian passport holder and therefore allowed 3 months visa-free entry to the US, wanted to visit the US for a total of two days on a cargo ship as opposed to a plane or cruise ship I had to obtain a 10year visa costing a considerable amount of money, necessitating a two day visit to Sydney and including an insulting interrogation as to my reasons as a woman for wanting to travel on a cargo ship with an all male crew - the inferences were very obvious. And people think that Russia and the Baltic countries make things difficult.

 

NB.I can spell, my spell-checker is set to British, not US, English.

Most people travel to learn, experience and savour but they also respect the laws of the country in which they are travelling and if this means carrying their passport as directed by their cruise line at the behest of the authorities, then so be it.[/font]

 

We'll agree to disagree about the consequences of countries sending very mixed messages: Carry your passport but expect than no one official will have any interest whatsoever in said passport and will never ask to see it.

 

I am not sure of the relevance of [uS trusted traveler] program as it appears to be to facilitate the re-entry of US travellers to the US. Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

You missed my comments about countries recognizing visiting trusted traveler program members, but let me elaborate a bit. When I return to the US, I head towards a bank of machines that will scan my trusted traveler card rather than getting in line with travelers carrying only a US passport. The number of people who have paid for the investigation is smaller than the number of people who hold US passports so there are no lines for returning trusted travelers.

 

Now, let's apply this to the likely situation when Shengen countries tighten their entry process. Admittedly, the chips in newer passports will speed the process, but we'll still see lines like the old stamp-your-passport days. If technology can create machines in the Shengen countries that will read my US trusted traveler card, I won't have to go through the main passport control line. Arriving travelers with only a passport will have that many few people in the line. The resistance to re-instated passport control will be less the more ways there are to process visitors entering the country.

 

I don't see a philosophical difference between a country recognizing my US passport or my US trusted traveler card: countries have decided to recognize a legal document issued by another country. The issue should be one of technology.

 

While on the subject of passports and visas. When I, as an Australian passport holder and therefore allowed 3 months visa-free entry to the US, wanted to visit the US for a total of two days on a cargo ship as opposed to a plane or cruise ship I had to obtain a 10year visa costing a considerable amount of money, necessitating a two day visit to Sydney and including an insulting interrogation as to my reasons as a woman for wanting to travel on a cargo ship with an all male crew - the inferences were very obvious. And people think that Russia and the Baltic countries make things difficult.

 

Bureaucratic foolishness is abundant in every country in the world! Don't expect me to defend the hoops you were made to jump through!

 

Now, let's apply this to the likely situation when Shengen countries tighten their entry process. Admittedly, the chips in newer passports will speed the process, but we'll still see lines like the old stamp-your-passport days. If technology can create machines in the Shengen countries that will read my US trusted traveler card, I won't have to go through the main passport control line. Arriving travelers with only a passport will have that many few people in the line. The resistance to re-instated passport control will be less the more ways there are to process visitors entering the country.

 

I don't see a philosophical difference between a country recognizing my US passport or my US trusted traveler card: countries have decided to recognize a legal document issued by another country. The issue should be one of technology.

 

Thanks for the explanation, I am always happy to learn. I had never heard of this system before and can see the huge benefit to regular travellers if regulations were to be tightened but as you say, it would depend on other countries introducing the system too. If only!

A very hypothetical situation, but in today's world, entirely possible.

There is some sort of terrorist attack in the port you are visiting, and all of a sudden, everyone will be on guard. I would think in a situation like that EVERYONE's ID would be checked, extensively.

Again, probable, not really, but impossible, never.

What is relaxed now, may become as severe as St Petersburg under certain circumstances.

Cheers

Len

We'll agree to disagree about the consequences of countries sending very mixed messages: Carry your passport but expect than no one official will have any interest whatsoever in said passport and will never ask to see it.

That mixed message is pretty much the beef of the Schengen agreement. No regular border controls between the participants were abolished, but requirements regarding travel documents were not changed. I think this "I can leave my passport behind" thinking is somewhat specific to cruising and might come from the Caribbean where you don't need to carry your passport ashore. I would assume that you would not fly intra Schengen or take a day trip with a train or ferry to a nearby city in another country without your passport even though it is almost never checked.

I understand that the pendulum is swinging back with regard to border control policies, and I'm sensitive to any country's need to control the people who cross its borders. Frankly, I'd have no problem with Shengen countries re-establishing more formal passport control procedures as long as that step is coupled with an international trusted traveler program.

The Schengen zone does control its outer borders. You did pass through passport control when entering the zone at the first Schengen airport. And if you hold a biometric passport of an eligible country, you can already enter via automated border control at several European airports.

The call for intra-Schengen border checks is still very much in minority as the direct cost of adding border controls to thousands of land crossing across Europe would be enormous and the indirect economic costs of slowing down cross-border commutes etc. would be much higher. The most vocal talks have so far come from Denmark that has a 68km land border with Germany and one bridge to Sweden. To put the realism of a border control on the bridge to some perspective: in addition to the freeway there is a train in both directions every 10 minutes with 13 minutes of travel time between first stations in each country. Adding a border check to that would cost quite a bit directly and also indirectly if it slowed down travel times.