CDR Benson

I did, indeed, receive it. As gracious as ever, sir. If the Fates ever throw us together on the same cruise, no doubt we will have to Indian wrestle to see who buys whom the first drink.

Allow me to chime in as one who took this idea and ran with it. As so many others did, I learnt a great deal from Gary's posts, but the most successful for the Good Mrs. Benson and myself was the employment of our butler letter. I used Gary's template, but put it in my own language, as I am a more formal gent than he is. I also modified his approach of tipping the butler in advance, by tipping our butler only half of the amount I would eventually tender to him. As I put it in our letter, "As a token of our confidence in your service, we've enclosed part of your well-deserved tip in advance." The concept of tipping in advance is, perhaps, the greatest generator of the controversy over Gary's posts. Some folks, logically, feel that a tip shouldn't be proffered until the end of the voyage, when the quality of the butler's service has been established. Others see tipping in advance as a bribe. It works for Gary, and it worked for us. As has been pointed out, embarkation day is the butler's busiest time on a cruise; he's pulled in a dozen different directions. So, we didn't expect any of our specific requests in the letter to be met until the next day. We would've been fine with that. However, our butler returned within the hour, fulfilling every one of our requests and then some. And he performed at the same level for us throughout the cruise, including applying a little MacGyver-like wizardry when I lost the tip of my cane in a battle with an elevator. On our last night, we were happy to provide him with the other half of our tip, and a little more for measure. I can relate only how it transpired for the Good Mrs. Benson and myself. The recourses described here by other posters---short notes with bullet points, verbal instructions---have merit. Those methods work for those Haven voyagers and they may work for you. But I liked Gary's idea and it worked for us famously. And I'm not anywhere near the swell guy Gary is.

As do most of the other cruise lines. This befuddles me, too. Why put their best accommodations in the locations that feel the most motion from the seas? I've passed on entire lines, such as Oceania, because of this convention. On others, I've skipped booking their more expensive cabins (even though they met my price-point) for the same reason.

BZ.

Yours is one of the more interesting trip reports from Norwegian Joy. Thank you for the photos of the Haven spaces---they recall fond memories of our cruise on Joy last September. And your note of how quiet and minimally occupied the Horizon Observation Lounge iterated our experience. It was one of the qualities the Good Mrs. Benson and I appreciated about it the most. Even when the observation lounge was fairly occupied, there were still nooks where we could spend a quiet moment to ourselves. (And the waiters always found us readily enough, so we weren't without libation.) I always note embarkation horror stories like yours with concern---because one never knows when it will happen to oneself. Embarkation is more under the control of the terminal staff, rather than the cruise line employees, and therein lies the rub. Fortunately for us, our embarkation last year, at the Manhattan terminal, was smooth, quick, and efficient, but I'm not satisfied that wasn't a fluke. With regard to your butler's failure to supply you with pitchers of apple juice and lemonade in a timely fashion, I'll inform you of what we did. In our butler letter, we requested our mini-fridge be stocked with pitchers of iced tea and orange juice daily, along with bowls of potato chips and peanut M & M's, also daily. We gave our butler the letter the first day, shortly after the ship was underway. In our letter, I had enclosed half the total amount I intended to tip him for the cruise. As I put it in the letter, "As a token of our confidence in your service, we've enclosed part of your well-deserved tip, in advance." (As it developed, that wasn't just flummery---our butler had already performed a critical service for me, even before the ship had sailed.) Now, on another thread, the topic of tipping the butler in advance is debated. There are those who feel that one should not tip until the quality of service has been exhibited (i.e., at the end of the cruise). Others view tipping in advance as a bribe. I'm not recommending or suggesting. How you handle tipping is your province. I'm simply relating what we did and how it worked for us. I didn't expect, or require, our requests for the pitchers of beverage or the bowls of snacks to appear until the next day. But, within half an hour after he left our suite, around 1830 hrs., our butler reäppeared with the pitchers and several bowls of chips and M & M's. And he kept us re-supplied in a timely manner throughout the cruise. I certainly understand the reasons for not tipping the butler in advance, and in any circumstance, there's no excuse for his not fulfilling your requests for juice and lemonaide the next day, let alone not for three days. A word to the Haven concierge---the butlers are under his auspice---would be in order. I appreciate your providing such a detailed account of your venture. It's enjoyable and informative.

They are, indeed, Haven suites. They were re-categorised as Haven suites two or three years ago. And for my $---vacation44 will attest to this---they are prime Haven lodgings, even if they aren't located in the "millionaires' row" of the Haven proper. Our suite, # 14778, was larger than a Haven courtyard suite, with the added room of the angled balcony. As far as access to the Haven, the suite was fifteen feet to the nearest elevator. It never took more than a minute or two to get to the Haven Lounge. Both # 14778 and # 14178 are located amidships, so it's not a long walk to any point on the ship. And they ride well in heavy seas. And the fare was considerably cheaper than a Haven courtyard suite. If I were offered a free stay in any acommodation on Norwegian Joy, I would choose only # 14778 or # 14178.

Now you've got me longing for October, 2024, and our next cruise on Norwegian Joy, in the same suite as last year---14778. The Good Mrs. Benson insisted on the same ship, the same suite. We're already booked on a Regent Seven Seas cruise this year (and no way we're cancelling that), so we've got nearly a two-year wait. Which, now that I think about it, was the same as last time.

Our experience at the Manhattan Pier Terminal last September was identical to this. Our previous embarkation (different cruise line, different city) had dropped us into the middle of a Chinese fire drill that forced me into a Gordian tactic to clear through the confusion. So the swiftness and efficiency of Manhattan was a welcome surprise.

Doubled and re-doubled!

That's the one thing that irritates me about the in-person muster drill: those who are too clueless and/or inconsiderate to get where they're supposed to be in a timely fashion. I remember our first cruise, several years ago, when, for the drill, the passengers actually had to muster on the weather deck at the locations of their assigned lifeboats. (Which is an excellent training practise.) It was some fifteen or twenty minutes into the evolution, a complete shipwide muster had not been obtained yet, and here comes some fellow ambling along as if he had no especial place to be. He was looking for his muster station, but wasn't too concerned about it, evidently. The crewman assigned to our station checked his boarding card and told "Mr. C." where his muster station was. And the fellow strolled away with all the urgency of a man out for a walk in the park looking for a hot dog stand. I can't attest to how the rest of the folks standing there in ranks felt, but I wanted to make that guy the subject of a man-overboard drill.

Ordinarily, I'm not that forgiving. But the Luggage Forward folks with whom I dealt were especially proactive and indulgent and earnest in setting up the deliveries. (I made a couple of modifications in setting the whole thing up.) And the young lady who tried to sort out the problem at the end of our cruise was gracious, and she reimbursed us immediately without resistence. That mollified me enough to be willing to give them another go.

That was the rationale of my wife and myself. We were two minutes from the Haven Lounge or the Horizon Observation Lounge, so why not enjoy a little change in scenery? No matter which venue we visited, a waiter was there to take our drink order within five minutes.

We used Luggage Forward on our NCL cruise to Canada this past September. We had absolutely no problems with pick-up from our house and delivery to the ship. There was a snag, though, at the end of the cruise, in getting our bags from the ship and back to our house. The problem lied in fouled communications, one of those things that, had I gotten word sooner, it would've worked perfectly. That's why I'm posting this---in case it precludes the same thing happening to you. Prior to our departure on the cruise, we received no instruction from Luggage Forward on what the procedure was for their pick-up from the ship at the end of the cruise (other than how to affix the necessary luggage tags). By the last evening of the cruise, when we had to set the bags out in the hall, we had still received no word from Luggage Forward. I figured the Haven concierge would know the procedure, but, somewhat incredibly, he'd never heard of luggage-delivery services. To his credit, he did find out. He reported back to me that we would recover our bags in the Manhattan port terminal and turn them over to a representative from Luggage Forward who would meet us in the terminal. What if the rep doesn't show or isn't where we are, I asked. Just ask any terminal employee, the concierge replied, they'll know. His information was only partially right. We got off the ship in the first wave, at 0730. We'd recovered our bags by 0800 and, yep, you guessed it---no sign of a Luggage Forward rep. And none of the terminal employees had any idea what a Luggage Forward rep was (although they had no problems sending us all over both decks of the terminal to find him). We had a car picking us up at 0900 to take us to the airport. So I called Luggage Forward. To her credit, the young lady who took the call couldn't have been more helpful. She put me on hold to make some calls, but checked back with me repeatedly so I'd know she hadn't forgotten us. Eventually, she informed us that the rep was scheduled to be at the luggage pick-up point at 0830. I told her that we were on the street at the entrance to the terminal and we were being picked up at 0900. (It was 0845 at this point.) He'll be right there, she assured me, you can't miss him. At 0900, our ride had arrived, but the Luggage Forward rep had not. I called the customer service gal back and told her to cancel the return service, that I was tired of he'll-be-right-theres and you-can't-miss-hims, and we'd muscle our bags ourselves. She was much nicer than I was at that point and apologised and immediately reimbursed us for the cost of returning our luggage home. The capper to all of this is, while we were waiting in the airport, I discovered an e-mail from Luggage Forward sent at 11:30 p.m. the night before (after we had set our luggage out and gone to bed), informing us that the Luggage Forward rep would meet us in the terminal, at the pick-up point, at 0830. Had we known this, we would not have left the ship as early as we had. The point of all this blather is to let you know that Luggage Forward will send you an e-mail instructing you on the return procedure, but you'll probably receive it late on your last night aboard. That will tell you when the Luggage Forward rep will meet you in the terminal and you can gauge your debarkation from the ship accordingly. You cannot rely on any employee on board or in the terminal knowing anything about it. I sent Luggage Forward a critique of the snafu, with a recommendation that it should notify its customers of the return procedure long before the last night of the cruise. I got the impression that they were embarrassed over the foul-up, which was in keeping with the earnest service I'd received from Luggage Forward in setting up the pick-ups. I do intend to use Luggage Forward again for our cruise in November.

I'm not going to go over the same gratuity territory that can be read on other threads. It's fair to say that, no matter how one decides to tip---in advance, following service, or not at all---your sentiment above should be the defining principle. That's why I entreat that one should tip (or not tip) according to what feels right to oneself. Every butler is not going to provide stellar, or even adequate, service. There's been enough accounts of that. Not tipping in those instances is, in its own way, a "recognition of service".

Navy sends Marine Corps its respects! I wish you both the most idyllic of cruises. I retired after twenty-seven years in harness, and even though my wife and I had always wanted to go on cruises (for me, the kind that weren't "haze grey and underway") and we had the wherewithal to do so, we kept putting it off. Until I finally decided we had to do it before we got too old to totter up the brow. Now, we've generally got our next cruise booked before we go on the one coming up. We hope you and your husband find the experience just as enjoyable. As to the tipping issue, your question is asked and answered times ten on the NCL boards. As you've concluded, the answer is you do what feels right to you. Whatever amount you choose to bestow will be appreciated by the recipients. Fair winds to you both!

Welcome to the thread. Of course, all cruise experiences are subjective. But the Good Mrs. Benson and I sailed on Joy, in the Haven, this past September, and, for us, it was idyllic. In fact, the GMB enjoyed it so much that she insisted we sail again on the same ship, in the same suite. So we are, next year. (This year's travels are already booked.) I hope your experience in the Haven on Joy is equally as enjoyable, or more so.

. . . As soon as I answer the colonel's question. My top award for a film about the Navy goes to: The Enemy Below (20th Century Fox, 1957) O. K., now back to cruise stuff.

To be sure, colonel, Ferrer, as Lieutenant Greenwald, stole the film. Of his two best moments, the first was when he undercut the protest that he was accusing Lieutenant Commander Queeg of cowardice with: It is not the defence's contention that Lieutenant Commander Queeg is a coward. Quite the contrary. The defence assumes that no man who rises to command a United States naval ship can possibly be a coward. And that, therefore, if he commits questionable acts under fire, the explanation must be elsewhere. Thus, LT Greenwald not only disarmed the iminent ire of the court-martial board, he subtly introduced the basis for LCDR Queeg's mental instability. But, of course, Greenwald's best scene is in his near-diatribe at the party celebrating Lieutenant Maryk's acquittal, in which the lawyer explains his reasons for defending Maryk: his acclamation of military men who defended this country unappreciated, before World War II made serving in uniform popular; his insistence that "you don't work with a captain because you like the way he parts his hair---you work with him because he's got the job or you're no good!"; and his final, bitter indictment of "the real author of the Caine mutiny," Lieutenant Keefer. Definitely the second-best film about the U. S. Navy ever made, and José Ferrer makes it.

On our cruise last September, it was the watch-the-video-then-amble-down-to-your-muster-station-at-your-leisure type of muster. In the event of an actual disaster, it wouldn't have been a problem for me. I had studied the deck plans of Joy from stem to stern and knew exactly where we'd have to go. But I guarantee the Good Mrs. Benson, from that one brief visit where a crewman scanned her boarding card, wouldn't have been able to find our station again. Especially in the throes of an emergency. I imagine most of the passengers were like that. Requiring the pax to actually respond to the alarm, make their way to their muster stations, and go through the motions of preparation imprints much more effectively on their memories. Even better if the muster drill were done two or three times per each week of a cruise. But I imagine a captain who did that wouldn't have many friends among the paying guests.

I take that very kindly, ma'am. Thank you.

As to this part of your post, I agree. Aye, this is a thread speaking to the pleasures of staying in the Haven. But that does not mean it should be limited to positive experiences. We need to hear of the occasions and circumstances when the Haven did not live up to its promise. For the reasons you cited. In order to accurately plan, anticipate, we need to know what could go wrong, what has gone wrong in someone else's situation. That affords us reasonable expectations. Aye, there has been a soupçon of dump-on-NCL in recent posts, but I think that's a natural reaction to NCL's recent policy changes. Once current travellers post on their experiences, the tone will shift.

You most certainly would win that bet, heh. I do not post on any of the "those who dress"-versus- "the t-shirt and jogging-shorts crowd" threads because they inevitably become mælstroms of incivility and attitude. But, as you've deduced, I have no problems with formality of dress. Without comment on those who do, strictly speaking to the matter of comfort, I am entirely comfortable in a suit or a dress uniform. (Those who aren't, it's almost always become some item of the ensemble doesn't fit right.) On our cruise last September, the Good Mrs. Benson and I dressed for the captain's cocktail reception---i brought my service dress uniform for the occasion. We dined in the Haven Restaurant afterward. After dinner, we decided to go to the Haven Lounge for a nightcap. "Let's go back to our room and change into something comfortable first," the GMB suggested. Then she looked at me, sighed, and said, "I forgot. Go on ahead, and I'll meet you there."

I haven't given up on NCL and the Haven. Aye, I'm not wild about the rate increases and the service cutbacks. But they're not enough to make me throw in the towel on NCL. Candidly, part of the reason is that the alternatives don't work for me. Aye, we are scheduled to cruise with Regent Seven Seas at the end of this year. But that's a fortunate circumstance of the significant deals Regent offered last year when the line was trying to re-start after COVID. The typical Regent price offers are a bit past my comfortable budget to sail with them regularly. At least, at the level of accommodations we want. Oceania meets our price point, but the location of their penthouse suites on most of their vessels is poorly designed. (Directly beneath the lido deck, and for that cost, I'm not going to roll the dice on whether the noise from above is bothersome or not.) Celebrity is significantly more expensive than NCL for a smaller suite than we had in the Haven on Norwegian Joy. I also allow that the 10% military discount that NCL affords me keeps its Haven fares about the same as what I paid last time. That said, the strongest motivating factor for staying with NCL was our experience in the Haven on our cruise last September. Many of the details are in the trip report I posted here after we got back. But the short form is that it was the most idyllic vacation the Good Mrs. Benson and I ever enjoyed. It was serene. So much so that the GMB insists that I was actually a normal human being. (She didn't have to get nasty about it, heh.) I don't think that's going to change much, if any, on our next Haven cruise, next year. In interest of full disclosure, that was as much a marching order from the GMB as a preference of my own. She wanted to sail again on the same ship, Joy, in the same suite. So we are, in 2024. (My wallet needs time to recover from paying for our Regent cruise this year.) As others have pointed out, all of the cruise lines have had to make customer-unfriendly adjustments in light of the current economy. Things could change significantly, for ill or good, in the next two years. But I believe NCL still provides an outstanding experience (in the Haven, at least) with a bang for the buck competitive with its brethren. Will NCL's customers receive every benefit they did in the past? I'm sure they won't. But eroding service offerings have been the nature of cruising for decades. There are probably folks still complaining about not being able to skeet-shoot off the fantail, anymore.

Navy sends Army its respects. As someone who spent most of his twenty-seven years in harness "haze grey and underway", I know the value of drills. For precisely the reason you stated above. I have no problem with spending thirty minutes or more on the first day actually reporting to my muster station and going through the motions as if it were the real thing. I would have no problem if we had to do it every sea day.

We experienced a problem with NCL's web site app for our Haven cruise last September. At the 130-day mark, we couldn't make specialty dining reservations on line. So, the next day, I went direct with the Norwegian Concierge Desk via e-mail (norwegianconciergedesk@ncl.com) and explained the issue. I also provided the dates and times and venues of the reservations I wanted. Within a business day or two, the desk responded, confirming my reservations. The reservations also then appeared in my account on the NCL app. I might suggest this tac if the same thing occurs with you.