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@Mommapadraig GREAT advice. Go on to YouTube and look for best Area for hotels, then best hotel in those area's. Fun to research and gives you a look at the hotels. On my trip, the hotel the cruise brand suggested in Athens, Greece was the one I choose. I got lucky. That choose was researched as I suggested to you. I hope that helps. Make sure you fly in the day before early so you can enjoy that day in Rome. I will be in Rome in November and can't wait. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

@cruisebeachgirl703 the Haven Concierge is kind of like the Manager of the Haven. The are the go to person even for the butlers. I hope that helps you. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

@hankandteri My first butler was about five years ago. I was uncomfortable asking for anything because I don't like to embarrass myself. In my "Real" world, I am the butler, room Stewart, chief and handy man. I was completely disappointed with my first butler. On my second opportunity, I googled what butlers do and don't do for you. Found GREAT information. I then watched lots of YouTube Video's on what butlers do. My second butler I did something very unconventional. I created a butler letter. I learned to share likes and dislikes, needs or wishes. I explained a little history about each member of my party. I ask what we could to or share that would make the butlers job easier. I then did something I hesitate to even share. I will but I know what is going to happen. I have shared this before. In my butler letter, I pre-tipped them upfront. The result was I had a very good experience with a butler that could not do enough for me and more importantly my family. Fast forward two more cruised, a refined butler letter and a much clearer understanding of what to expect. I was on Crystal Cruises and our butler literally made the cruise for us. He was a new level. The letter helped but his was the real reason it worked. That cruise taught me, the better the cruise brand, the better trained and accommodating the butler was. Our Celebrity and NCL Haven Butlers were ok. Nothing like our Crystal Cruise Butler. My lesson on cruising is to know how things work. Not everyone want to go to the lengths I go to. I fully understand that. I have the time and enjoy the research. The number one thing I realized is know what you want in your Vacation Life and never use the real world as your data source. I love engaging with everyone, enjoying everyone company including every member of the crew. Laugh and visit with them. Some how, my last few butlers have be over the top. It took some learning but it would out GREAT. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

@dmbcanada For the past decade, I have cruised NCL. I know known for my articles, streams and posts on the NCL Haven. However I have also cruise in the NCL normal balcony staterooms. Please add to that, prior to retirement, I worked very heavily on survey systems and why folks review the way they do. With 44 years of cruising, the fact is, every decade or so cruising changes. From dining, to levels of personalized service to the amount of times a day the cabin steward cleans your stateroom. These changes usually come when the cruise line has a situation that cost them huge money and can't control it. To stay in business they have to make changes. Let me say that again, they can continue to do business with cuts which effect our vacation experience or be out of business. Not the choose any company wants to make. From a consumer standpoint, it is up to us to make a decision. Is the cutbacks enough to keep our business or to lose it. When negative reviews happen they scare us all. Cruising is still a significate cost. The best way to look at is is 10% are awful, 10% claim the cruise was perfect. 80% are much more balance. Take them all in and make your decision. My opinion know what every says and make your own educated decision. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

Omg, you bet the gold star for that one. You brought back my childhood in Long Island NY. It was Sims mens clothing. If I am not mistaken.

@Mike981 You see the challenges. I made sure, I have everything I put up covered by being fully refundable to "ME". When I make changes, which I just did with their airfare, I check with them via electronic mail and confirm. Still, the airfare is fully refundable, to "ME". The Final Payment Due Date on my upcoming cruise is August 15, 2023. They have to take money out of their retirement. I told them it had to be paid, June 15, 2023. They made the transfers and and cutting me a check next week. When we had to pay for our Cruise Travel Insurance, I got a check from them prior to confirming it. After 65 years of always being the bank with no return on investment, I got the picture that you outlined so well. Thank you for the post. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

Well, I have to comment, "next time please don't hold back". I enjoy reading lots of cruise threads on different brands on CruiseCritic.com. Some make me smile, other make me laugh and some make me sad. Yet regardless of how I feel, I attempt to try to understand why the person wrote to thread. This is one of those threads. The obvious is the disappointment outlined in great detail. Not limited to missing port but to the core of the brand itself. This is emphasized with the comparison of Carnival vs. Oceania. That one was to me a real shocker. I have no idea how I would feel if I spent $20,000 for a 10 day cruise and was so disappointed. Yet still, I am not sure what the end-game is for this stream. Was it done to Vent; Was it done to send a message to the brand; Was it done as a public service announcement, maybe it was done to stop folks from considering the brand in the future. Possible all of the above. How can knowing what was presented help or improve our future Oceania Riviera experience? I will log the information for future reference. I and we all should take anything we learn on Social Media with a grain of salt. I am again sad this guest did not come close to meeting there expectations. To much money to spend for that to have happened. I hope that this outline and all its parts are sent to every executive in Oceania so they can process it. No brand in this price point can survive with this type of reputation even if it is a minority of guest. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

@nancygp You were always so kind to me. You opinion has great value. I think in this one short stream, I have gotten every thing I need. Thank you again.

@nancygp You are exactly correct Nancy. I learned all I could, went on Crystal and had a OK but not great time. The real issue want not Crystal, it was the itinerary, just coming off the pandemic and a few very entitled people. As I said in my review of Crystal, that is the kind of experience I would want in a Port driven cruise in Europe. Not the Caribbean. I also learned a lot with that research. One thing I learned it I have NO IDEA what a real butler or personalized service was like until I went on Crystal. I am gun shy to try them again for obvious reasons. So I am looking at Silver Seas and Regent. As I step up to a much nicer cruising experience, I am starting with Oceania. Thank you for remembering me. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

@mcl082182 This is a HAL upgrade and I am not familiar with it. I just looked it up and I think it is $25.00 per person per day. I would watch some YouTube videos on it before committing. Sorry I was not much help. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

That is because we are used to NEVER having this benefit. Add to that, how excited folks that only go Mainstream are for complementary in-suite beverage set-up. We have been programed. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

Thank you to everyone who posted. I did not expect much however go real detail. I am impressed by the stream, writing skills and feedback. When a person asks a question, it is their obligation to acknowledge and let folks know their final decision. That is simply good manners. I will attempt to do that. Watch YouTube Video: This was the very first piece of advice I got. Before I posted my questions, I reviewed lots of YouTube Videos. They were extremally helpful. Demographics: It seems that at 63 and 65 respectively, my wife and I are "Youngsters" so some. Yet our age is about the time many other choose this type of cruising. Amenities: The emphasis and it did not surprise me was, much less grinding of guest to spend more money. No need to have to use your cabin card for drinks. Most dining was complementary with the exception of one or two specialty restaurants. Those had a fee. Each of them was rated with the clear notion that dining/food is subjective. With few exceptions, other than the premium fee dining, reservation were not critical. The emphasis on complementary laundry was a key topic. The classification of your stateroom or status with the brand made a difference there. Makes complete sense. Suggested Stateroom: As I expected, this is a range with most folks about in the middle price range. Seems when cruising at this level, the reality is the ports not the stateroom. More important it is that everyone is treated the same when they leave their stateroom for the most part. Fear of Investment: Unfortunately the gap from every mainstream or premium VIP areas to Silverseas is quite the leap. The terms, "You will never know until you do it." is very true but does not help the decision. Basically is it "Pay to Play" which takes a leap of faith. Comparison to other Similar Brands: I found this to be most helpful especially when comparing to Crystal Cruise which I sailed. My initial conclusions, right or wrong: The obvious key is the Itinerary you want to cruise. Dining and personalized services will be a true enhancement to Mainstream cruise brands. Not the ships for after 11 pm activates and the entertainment is well not spectacular especially compared to other similar ships. Unlike other blogs focused on a brand, I never got the feeling anyone was so connected with this brand that they would never consider another brand. It seems to always be itinerary focused. For me, not having the unrealistic fanatical brand fans was refreshing. Thank you to everyone. You have given me food for thought. I will leave you now with a sense of true appreciation for your words. When I make a decision, I hope you will allow me to connect back. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

Thank you

Been cruising for 44 years. My first cruise was my Honeymoon 44 years ago on the Norwegian SS Norway. We were just married yet had bunk beds. We thought it was the most wonderful vacation of our lives. Then again, it was the first and only vacation of our lives. Since then we have moved up mostly in Mainstream Cruise brands to balcony's followed by the Premium Area's in Celebrity, MSC and mostly the NCL Haven. I am 65 and my wife is 63. Our tastes have changed from watching pool games of belly flop contests, water slides, Lasor tag and Virtual Reality. Now we would like to see interesting places, have exceptional dining experiences, and a Martini with a jazz in the background. I am a preparation NUT. I do hours of work attempting to make a Mainstream cruise come as close to a "All-Inclusive" Luxury cruise as I can. We used to think the only way to go is a Mega Ship with 4,000 to 6,000 folks. Than we had our one and only experience in the Luxury (Not Ultra-Luxury) category on Crystal Cruise before it went bankrupt. The difference in personalized service and dining was so much better than any experience even in the Mainstream Premium area's. I hope that give a good overview for recommendations. I know question like mine leave out any likes and dislikes making are to provide information. The one items that has keep me away from the Ultra-Luxury Category is investment. The other is I always thought the only totally All-Inclusive cruise brand was Regent Seven Seas. Let's say, we are open to the investments and realize no cruise brand is fully All-Inclusive. If you can help me, what I am looking for is: Your favorite ship and why? Your favorite stateroom and why? Your thoughts on the Dining Experience? What are the amentias provided which helps with justification? The one lesson I learned is if you are serious about enjoying this kind of experience, 7-days is simply to shore. Yet 21 days would be to long for us. Any advice or assistance would be embraced. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

@cruiseny4life More than welcome. I did not mean to be pointing fingers at anyone. I am the Extrovert in my family and my wife it the introvert. Your comments sound so much like hers. What to know a secret, "She does not know I sent the letters". If she did, I would be in trouble, LOL. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

@SofaSogood Sorry, I can not answer your question about time since the only knowledge I have is for the US. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

I always attempt to be fair in my posts and responses. After reading the replies I have to respond. When I did my customary reply to ANY Haven Related stream, I focused on being fair and reasonable. I DID notice that the Author was on my "Ignore List". I also saw that the Author has posted a lot on CruiseCritic.com which deserves respect. Make of those facts as you will. So I took the High Road on my response. Boy that is hard sometimes and I have to fight with myself. But if you want folks to be professional, thoughtful and kind you have to be honest and "Lead by Example". I have done the MSC Yacht Club, Celebrity Retreat, Crystal Cruises and NCL Haven. I have also done every kind of cabin from Inside to the Haven Deluxe Owners Suite on the NCL Joy. Each of these Premium Areas have had a few entitled guests. After 30 cruises and 44 years of cruising, the number of openly entitled guests has been very low. Yet, if you want to find one, look in any area of a cruise ship, you really don't have to look far. Manners is not a prerequisite to a cruise vacation. I love the NCL Haven. So much so that I write about it and give advice here on Cruise Critic. I get nothing from that effort other than remember a time well spent. I want everyone to notice, I have never gone on the Royal Premium areas so I don't comment on them. That is on purpose. From someone that has NO skin in the game and pays 100% for all cruises he goes on, the NCL Haven experience is some of the best I have ever had. Yet we all have to balance value with cost. Now, with as much as I love the Haven, I will only consider it if "The Price Is Right" and that is not a game show. My money, my choice. If the Haven was that bad, it would not be sold out ALL the time especially at it premium price point. Take every ones opinion with a grain of salt including mine. On the topic of writing letters, I am the guy. Blame me for doing that for the butler letter and to the NCL team pre-cruise. I am proud of it and it works for me. "You Do You". Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

@PaulMCO Hello old friend. Nice to hear from you again. We seem to have similar travel habits that gained us a certain level of status. A little hint on the airfare point. I learned this from a YouTube influencer. Start and end your trip on Delta from Mexico City. The difference in points on Business Class is astronomical. The kicker is you have to gain a round trip to Mexico City which may extent your travel a day each end. Not for everyone but can work with a little thought. Off the subject, are you considering the NEW Crystal Cruises in the future? I am a little gun shy. Love your thoughts. As our mutual good friend always says, "Cruise well and enjoy every moment".

Installment #6: Learn the Culture (Italy) Since this stream is a preparation stream for a Mediterranean 10 day Cruise on Oceania, I wanted to approach the culture of each country we will be visiting. I learned this when I had several speaking engagements in Japan during my business career. Little things, make a big difference when visiting other countries. I also look at it as even more enjoyment for me. Kind of like when you use a nice Red Wine Glass for a fine red wine. I won't even drink the wine if it is in a plastic glass. It is part of the enjoyment. Some might look at that last statement as me being Bougie. Not at all, I also love BBQ ribs with messy BBQ sauce all over my fingers. Just a way to better enjoy different experiences in life. Italian Etiquette: Since we will spend some time in several Italian ports, there are some etiquette rules to understand. I put these things in the same category as when I visited Japan some years back. YouTube video title is, “FIRST TIME IN ROME ITALY: What to Know Before You Go to Rome. Travel Tips to Italy” and the link is: https://youtu.be/dhJHijy0tbY . Culture: NOTE: · Check Timing: When considering attractions, check what day and times they are open. Do your best to purchase tickets online to avoid lines. · Visiting a Church: If it is a church, remember to have your shoulders and legs covered up and have your passport. · Bathroom: Need to use a restroom, order an expresso for one Euro, and use their bathroom. · Credit Cards (Visa): Double check Taxi, shops and restaurants take credit cards before ordering. That is why you should have cash with you. · Late Night Partying: Don’t expect to party hard at night. Italy is chill. · General Lifestyle: Italian lifestyle is centered around “Food, Drink, Music, relaxing and friends”. · Use Good Business Judgement: Don’t Talk Politics or about Italian Crime. Drinking Water: You DON’T have to buy drinking water in Italy. There are 250 drinking fountains around the city designed to refill your water 24/7, clean and safe. Have a refillable container with you. Language: Don’t expect everyone to speak English in Italy. Bring an Italian dictionary with you. Make a list of key phases in Italian and put it in your phone. Italy has the fewest English-speaking folks of Europe. Better today but still not great. Punctuality is NOT an Italian Trait: Time in Italy is a moving target. Everything from tours to public transportation in Italy is elastic. Most places are closed at lunchtime so check before you visit. This applies across the board from restaurants, shops and even banks. They are closed usually until 1:30 PM. If you are in Rome. All major tourist attractions are within walking distance. Riposo (Afternoon Rest): Stores, shops, attractions, and restaurants are closed. Truly a cultural thing in Room. Usually, approximately 01:30 PM to 04:00 PM. As an additional fact, most businesses are closed on Sunday. Don’t Assume ALL Italians are Related to Mafia: It is insulting to the Italians. This goes along with not talking about Politics. Shopping/Visiting: Via Dei Condotti: All well-known high-end brands. The prices are not super great as you might expect. Side Streets from Main Street: This is where you will find high quality Italian goods at reasonable prices. HOWEVER, Don’t expect CHEAP Luxury Goods. Restaurants and Churches have Dress Codes: Italians have strong feelings about appearance viewing it as respectful. Church: In a church, your shoulders and legs should be covered. Restaurants in the Evening: Same holds true in the restaurants in the evening. Food: NOTE: · Don’t eat in the restaurants near the attractions. Go to a recommended restaurant or one that has a menu that is handwritten in Italian. The places by the attractions have expensive rents and low quality, very expensive food. · Lunch: Between 12:30 PM and Approx. 2:00 PM · Dinner: After 07:30 PM · Don’t expect ice in your drink without special request. Pizza: Never ask your waiter to cut your pizza for you. Never ask for pineapple to go with your pizza. Never ask for pizza with chicken. Pasta: Never cut your pasta with a knife. The proper way to eat pasta is with a fork. Never use a knife or spoon. Never put cheese on your pasta if it has fish or seafood. Never ask for ketchup to go with your pasta. Never ask for additional Sause to go with your pasta. Never ask for Pasta with Meatballs, it does not exist in italy. You can have pasta Ragu which means with meat. Olive Oil: Never ASK the waiter to bring Olive Oil with Balsamic Vinegar or butter for your bread. Only Olive Oil. You cannot have “Ranch Dressing” for your salad. You will receive Olive Oil and Balsamic Vinegar on your salad. After all, you are in Italy. The Commandments of Coffee: Milky Coffee is only for the morning before 11:00 AM Italians don’t order “Cappuccino” after 11:00 AM. “Macchiato” after lunch. This is expresso with a splash of Milk. Espresso is default for Un-Coffee (One Expresso). Espresso Doppio (Double Expresso) Italian Bar is a Coffee Bar NOT alcohol. Drink your coffee next to the bar like native Italians. If you take your coffee to the table, you will have to pay some extra fee. Not wrong just costs more. Keep it simple. No mint mocha, there is NO Starbucks in Italy for a reason. Don’t order “Latte” in Italy. Latte means milk in Italy. Instead, order “Caffe Latte”. Coffee and Pastry is a normal breakfast. Huge breakfasts are not an Italian thing. No such thing as an Early Dinner in Italy: Dinner time is 07:30 PM usually. All our Ship Reservations are at 07:00 PM so if we choose to see the 09:30 PM nightly show, we have enough time to do so. Payments: Credit Cards for big things , and online purchases Cash for little things like coffee, pastry, Ice Cream and such. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

@JGmf Thank you

I obviously love the Haven and leveraging all the Amenities that it has to offer. Yet, I really appreciate this review. It was both fair and balanced. In the last two years, I have cruised in the Haven on the Joy twice and in a Club Balcony Suite once. My non-Haven cruise was solo and I called it Haven Lite by booking the Vibe Beach Club and the Free at Sea PLUS. Far less investing and had a GREAT time on all three. Butlers: On NCL and Celebrity they are hit or miss. On the Luxury and Ultra-Luxury cruise brands they tend to be excellent. The reason is both training and more importantly the NCL Haven Butlers have to many suites. Yes I am the one that promoted the Butler Letter, it worked for me. The issues is I should never have had to do that much work. It should be just natural. Room Stewards: Some of the hardest working folks in show business. The not only handle requests, they do it right a way. Bravo to your Room Steward. Haven Restaurant: For lunch it is like watching wet paint dry so I agree it takes way to much time. If in the Haven, if you want to some activities and just want a quick lunch, the Have is NOT the place. Dinner was hands down my favorite place to eat. It is clear from the author that the Haven has lost a step or two. It is very disturbing to me that the investment in the Haven has gone some much higher however the personalized service seems to have not followed. The Haven is a great alternative to a Premium-Plus/Luxury brand if you have a family or want a mega ship. The Joy in my mind is the nicest Mega Ship I have ever cruises. If we want a couples cruise with enhanced dinning, more time in a port, and much improved personized service; there or other options to consider. Some which are a better value. Thank you to the author for being straight forward. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

Concierge Desk P: +1 855-625-4283 NorwegianConciergeDesk@ncl.com | www.ncl.com Norwegian Cruise Line 7665 Corporate Center Drive | Miami FL 33126 Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

@Daniel A My advice based my upcoming trip to Europe is the following: Look at the Hotel they are booking and see if you can book it yourself, for less money and cancel (Full Refund ONLY or don't Cancel). You usually save a ton by doing it yourself. The ground transportation is a google search a way. I have two "Taxi's" set up. One for the Airport to the Hotel. The other from the Hotel to the Port. Far easier and less expensive than I thought. Let me add less confusing also. I have had all kinds of issue finding the representative especially on late flights. I don't like waiting for other planes to land for a bus to fill up. None of this is an issue when I handle it myself. Besides saving money on Pre/Post Hotel Stays, you can pick and choose the hotel based in your want to sightsee or not. An example is the hotel I choose is in the City Center of Athens, Greece. I read all the reviews, saved money and watched videos of the actual hotel on YouTube. Many folks want the cruise company to do all the arrangements. It is easier for them. In my case, it is less expensive and easier for me to handle it myself. This includes Air, Hotels and Ground Transportation. I also when out of the country, arrange my own Excursions or Sightseeing items I want to go to with the Use of Google Maps and YouTube which can be your best friend. I know I did not answer your exact question directly, however I do hope I helped in some way. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

As is clear from my CruiseCritic.com Signature. My next cruise is a 10-Day Mediterranean on NCL sister brand Oceania. Since everyone knows me as a big NCL Haven Enthusiast, I have been asked why I choose another brand. I am happy to explain but all I ask is, this is my reasoning, not anyone else. Research On Brands: I am sure it does not surprise anyone that I do extensive research on every cruise I do. This one was my first in Europe. I looked at NCL, Celebrity, Viking, Regent Seven Seas, Silver Seas, Ritz-Carlton, and a few others. On NCL and Celebrity, I had Suites and Haven/Retreat as separate columns. I had ever amenity and statistic including when the ship was built and or dry docked last. Reviews: I went to reviews, and Blogs for each brand on CruiseCritic.com to learn more about each brand. Likes, Loves and dislikes. Cost Analysis: On this cruise we have a self inflicted budget. This is because we are bringing friend with us that are not in the same financial position as we are. They gave us a budget and we stuck to it. Ports and Time In Ports: We wanted as much time in each port as possible. Some brands just give you a few hours and other give you almost a day. Size ship and Demographic of the Brand: We wanted a smaller ship for the second time in our lives. The first time was Crystal Cruises. It informed me less people on the ship means the ship does not have to be so big. The demographic is 55 and above and I am being kind. More like 65 and above. This cruise we wanted to get into the smaller ports without taking tenders, have less children, and a much more laid back cruise. We choose Oceania because it hit most of our boxes. We knew the night life ended early, at my age, perfect. We knew the entertainment we were used to on NCL was not going to happen. We knew there would be less rock and more Frank S. on the ship. We also knew the entire ship once a person left their stateroom, everyone was treated the same. We ended up getting a penthouse, huge room, butler, and very nice balcony. The suite amenities are very similar to Haven and Retreat. Now the ship I REALLY wanted to go on was the NCL Viva. It was 9 days instead of 10. The Fare in the Haven was literally over double. Out side the Haven was still more expensive. The other brands were sometimes twice as much as Viva, so high fares going to the same places. The times in the port were not as attractive. I sadly could NOT justify it but I will be in the Haven on the Viva one day. Now when I get back (Cruise is in November 2023) will do a review and compare my experience in the Haven with my Suite on Oceania. I hope that answers everyone's questions. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

@RD64 Extremely well said. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.