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That is because we are used to NEVER having this benefit. Add to that, how excited folks that only go Mainstream are for complementary in-suite beverage set-up. We have been programed. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

Thank you to everyone who posted. I did not expect much however go real detail. I am impressed by the stream, writing skills and feedback. When a person asks a question, it is their obligation to acknowledge and let folks know their final decision. That is simply good manners. I will attempt to do that. Watch YouTube Video: This was the very first piece of advice I got. Before I posted my questions, I reviewed lots of YouTube Videos. They were extremally helpful. Demographics: It seems that at 63 and 65 respectively, my wife and I are "Youngsters" so some. Yet our age is about the time many other choose this type of cruising. Amenities: The emphasis and it did not surprise me was, much less grinding of guest to spend more money. No need to have to use your cabin card for drinks. Most dining was complementary with the exception of one or two specialty restaurants. Those had a fee. Each of them was rated with the clear notion that dining/food is subjective. With few exceptions, other than the premium fee dining, reservation were not critical. The emphasis on complementary laundry was a key topic. The classification of your stateroom or status with the brand made a difference there. Makes complete sense. Suggested Stateroom: As I expected, this is a range with most folks about in the middle price range. Seems when cruising at this level, the reality is the ports not the stateroom. More important it is that everyone is treated the same when they leave their stateroom for the most part. Fear of Investment: Unfortunately the gap from every mainstream or premium VIP areas to Silverseas is quite the leap. The terms, "You will never know until you do it." is very true but does not help the decision. Basically is it "Pay to Play" which takes a leap of faith. Comparison to other Similar Brands: I found this to be most helpful especially when comparing to Crystal Cruise which I sailed. My initial conclusions, right or wrong: The obvious key is the Itinerary you want to cruise. Dining and personalized services will be a true enhancement to Mainstream cruise brands. Not the ships for after 11 pm activates and the entertainment is well not spectacular especially compared to other similar ships. Unlike other blogs focused on a brand, I never got the feeling anyone was so connected with this brand that they would never consider another brand. It seems to always be itinerary focused. For me, not having the unrealistic fanatical brand fans was refreshing. Thank you to everyone. You have given me food for thought. I will leave you now with a sense of true appreciation for your words. When I make a decision, I hope you will allow me to connect back. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

Thank you

Been cruising for 44 years. My first cruise was my Honeymoon 44 years ago on the Norwegian SS Norway. We were just married yet had bunk beds. We thought it was the most wonderful vacation of our lives. Then again, it was the first and only vacation of our lives. Since then we have moved up mostly in Mainstream Cruise brands to balcony's followed by the Premium Area's in Celebrity, MSC and mostly the NCL Haven. I am 65 and my wife is 63. Our tastes have changed from watching pool games of belly flop contests, water slides, Lasor tag and Virtual Reality. Now we would like to see interesting places, have exceptional dining experiences, and a Martini with a jazz in the background. I am a preparation NUT. I do hours of work attempting to make a Mainstream cruise come as close to a "All-Inclusive" Luxury cruise as I can. We used to think the only way to go is a Mega Ship with 4,000 to 6,000 folks. Than we had our one and only experience in the Luxury (Not Ultra-Luxury) category on Crystal Cruise before it went bankrupt. The difference in personalized service and dining was so much better than any experience even in the Mainstream Premium area's. I hope that give a good overview for recommendations. I know question like mine leave out any likes and dislikes making are to provide information. The one items that has keep me away from the Ultra-Luxury Category is investment. The other is I always thought the only totally All-Inclusive cruise brand was Regent Seven Seas. Let's say, we are open to the investments and realize no cruise brand is fully All-Inclusive. If you can help me, what I am looking for is: Your favorite ship and why? Your favorite stateroom and why? Your thoughts on the Dining Experience? What are the amentias provided which helps with justification? The one lesson I learned is if you are serious about enjoying this kind of experience, 7-days is simply to shore. Yet 21 days would be to long for us. Any advice or assistance would be embraced. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

@cruiseny4life More than welcome. I did not mean to be pointing fingers at anyone. I am the Extrovert in my family and my wife it the introvert. Your comments sound so much like hers. What to know a secret, "She does not know I sent the letters". If she did, I would be in trouble, LOL. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

@SofaSogood Sorry, I can not answer your question about time since the only knowledge I have is for the US. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

I always attempt to be fair in my posts and responses. After reading the replies I have to respond. When I did my customary reply to ANY Haven Related stream, I focused on being fair and reasonable. I DID notice that the Author was on my "Ignore List". I also saw that the Author has posted a lot on CruiseCritic.com which deserves respect. Make of those facts as you will. So I took the High Road on my response. Boy that is hard sometimes and I have to fight with myself. But if you want folks to be professional, thoughtful and kind you have to be honest and "Lead by Example". I have done the MSC Yacht Club, Celebrity Retreat, Crystal Cruises and NCL Haven. I have also done every kind of cabin from Inside to the Haven Deluxe Owners Suite on the NCL Joy. Each of these Premium Areas have had a few entitled guests. After 30 cruises and 44 years of cruising, the number of openly entitled guests has been very low. Yet, if you want to find one, look in any area of a cruise ship, you really don't have to look far. Manners is not a prerequisite to a cruise vacation. I love the NCL Haven. So much so that I write about it and give advice here on Cruise Critic. I get nothing from that effort other than remember a time well spent. I want everyone to notice, I have never gone on the Royal Premium areas so I don't comment on them. That is on purpose. From someone that has NO skin in the game and pays 100% for all cruises he goes on, the NCL Haven experience is some of the best I have ever had. Yet we all have to balance value with cost. Now, with as much as I love the Haven, I will only consider it if "The Price Is Right" and that is not a game show. My money, my choice. If the Haven was that bad, it would not be sold out ALL the time especially at it premium price point. Take every ones opinion with a grain of salt including mine. On the topic of writing letters, I am the guy. Blame me for doing that for the butler letter and to the NCL team pre-cruise. I am proud of it and it works for me. "You Do You". Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

@PaulMCO Hello old friend. Nice to hear from you again. We seem to have similar travel habits that gained us a certain level of status. A little hint on the airfare point. I learned this from a YouTube influencer. Start and end your trip on Delta from Mexico City. The difference in points on Business Class is astronomical. The kicker is you have to gain a round trip to Mexico City which may extent your travel a day each end. Not for everyone but can work with a little thought. Off the subject, are you considering the NEW Crystal Cruises in the future? I am a little gun shy. Love your thoughts. As our mutual good friend always says, "Cruise well and enjoy every moment".

Installment #6: Learn the Culture (Italy) Since this stream is a preparation stream for a Mediterranean 10 day Cruise on Oceania, I wanted to approach the culture of each country we will be visiting. I learned this when I had several speaking engagements in Japan during my business career. Little things, make a big difference when visiting other countries. I also look at it as even more enjoyment for me. Kind of like when you use a nice Red Wine Glass for a fine red wine. I won't even drink the wine if it is in a plastic glass. It is part of the enjoyment. Some might look at that last statement as me being Bougie. Not at all, I also love BBQ ribs with messy BBQ sauce all over my fingers. Just a way to better enjoy different experiences in life. Italian Etiquette: Since we will spend some time in several Italian ports, there are some etiquette rules to understand. I put these things in the same category as when I visited Japan some years back. YouTube video title is, “FIRST TIME IN ROME ITALY: What to Know Before You Go to Rome. Travel Tips to Italy” and the link is: https://youtu.be/dhJHijy0tbY . Culture: NOTE: · Check Timing: When considering attractions, check what day and times they are open. Do your best to purchase tickets online to avoid lines. · Visiting a Church: If it is a church, remember to have your shoulders and legs covered up and have your passport. · Bathroom: Need to use a restroom, order an expresso for one Euro, and use their bathroom. · Credit Cards (Visa): Double check Taxi, shops and restaurants take credit cards before ordering. That is why you should have cash with you. · Late Night Partying: Don’t expect to party hard at night. Italy is chill. · General Lifestyle: Italian lifestyle is centered around “Food, Drink, Music, relaxing and friends”. · Use Good Business Judgement: Don’t Talk Politics or about Italian Crime. Drinking Water: You DON’T have to buy drinking water in Italy. There are 250 drinking fountains around the city designed to refill your water 24/7, clean and safe. Have a refillable container with you. Language: Don’t expect everyone to speak English in Italy. Bring an Italian dictionary with you. Make a list of key phases in Italian and put it in your phone. Italy has the fewest English-speaking folks of Europe. Better today but still not great. Punctuality is NOT an Italian Trait: Time in Italy is a moving target. Everything from tours to public transportation in Italy is elastic. Most places are closed at lunchtime so check before you visit. This applies across the board from restaurants, shops and even banks. They are closed usually until 1:30 PM. If you are in Rome. All major tourist attractions are within walking distance. Riposo (Afternoon Rest): Stores, shops, attractions, and restaurants are closed. Truly a cultural thing in Room. Usually, approximately 01:30 PM to 04:00 PM. As an additional fact, most businesses are closed on Sunday. Don’t Assume ALL Italians are Related to Mafia: It is insulting to the Italians. This goes along with not talking about Politics. Shopping/Visiting: Via Dei Condotti: All well-known high-end brands. The prices are not super great as you might expect. Side Streets from Main Street: This is where you will find high quality Italian goods at reasonable prices. HOWEVER, Don’t expect CHEAP Luxury Goods. Restaurants and Churches have Dress Codes: Italians have strong feelings about appearance viewing it as respectful. Church: In a church, your shoulders and legs should be covered. Restaurants in the Evening: Same holds true in the restaurants in the evening. Food: NOTE: · Don’t eat in the restaurants near the attractions. Go to a recommended restaurant or one that has a menu that is handwritten in Italian. The places by the attractions have expensive rents and low quality, very expensive food. · Lunch: Between 12:30 PM and Approx. 2:00 PM · Dinner: After 07:30 PM · Don’t expect ice in your drink without special request. Pizza: Never ask your waiter to cut your pizza for you. Never ask for pineapple to go with your pizza. Never ask for pizza with chicken. Pasta: Never cut your pasta with a knife. The proper way to eat pasta is with a fork. Never use a knife or spoon. Never put cheese on your pasta if it has fish or seafood. Never ask for ketchup to go with your pasta. Never ask for additional Sause to go with your pasta. Never ask for Pasta with Meatballs, it does not exist in italy. You can have pasta Ragu which means with meat. Olive Oil: Never ASK the waiter to bring Olive Oil with Balsamic Vinegar or butter for your bread. Only Olive Oil. You cannot have “Ranch Dressing” for your salad. You will receive Olive Oil and Balsamic Vinegar on your salad. After all, you are in Italy. The Commandments of Coffee: Milky Coffee is only for the morning before 11:00 AM Italians don’t order “Cappuccino” after 11:00 AM. “Macchiato” after lunch. This is expresso with a splash of Milk. Espresso is default for Un-Coffee (One Expresso). Espresso Doppio (Double Expresso) Italian Bar is a Coffee Bar NOT alcohol. Drink your coffee next to the bar like native Italians. If you take your coffee to the table, you will have to pay some extra fee. Not wrong just costs more. Keep it simple. No mint mocha, there is NO Starbucks in Italy for a reason. Don’t order “Latte” in Italy. Latte means milk in Italy. Instead, order “Caffe Latte”. Coffee and Pastry is a normal breakfast. Huge breakfasts are not an Italian thing. No such thing as an Early Dinner in Italy: Dinner time is 07:30 PM usually. All our Ship Reservations are at 07:00 PM so if we choose to see the 09:30 PM nightly show, we have enough time to do so. Payments: Credit Cards for big things , and online purchases Cash for little things like coffee, pastry, Ice Cream and such. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

@JGmf Thank you

I obviously love the Haven and leveraging all the Amenities that it has to offer. Yet, I really appreciate this review. It was both fair and balanced. In the last two years, I have cruised in the Haven on the Joy twice and in a Club Balcony Suite once. My non-Haven cruise was solo and I called it Haven Lite by booking the Vibe Beach Club and the Free at Sea PLUS. Far less investing and had a GREAT time on all three. Butlers: On NCL and Celebrity they are hit or miss. On the Luxury and Ultra-Luxury cruise brands they tend to be excellent. The reason is both training and more importantly the NCL Haven Butlers have to many suites. Yes I am the one that promoted the Butler Letter, it worked for me. The issues is I should never have had to do that much work. It should be just natural. Room Stewards: Some of the hardest working folks in show business. The not only handle requests, they do it right a way. Bravo to your Room Steward. Haven Restaurant: For lunch it is like watching wet paint dry so I agree it takes way to much time. If in the Haven, if you want to some activities and just want a quick lunch, the Have is NOT the place. Dinner was hands down my favorite place to eat. It is clear from the author that the Haven has lost a step or two. It is very disturbing to me that the investment in the Haven has gone some much higher however the personalized service seems to have not followed. The Haven is a great alternative to a Premium-Plus/Luxury brand if you have a family or want a mega ship. The Joy in my mind is the nicest Mega Ship I have ever cruises. If we want a couples cruise with enhanced dinning, more time in a port, and much improved personized service; there or other options to consider. Some which are a better value. Thank you to the author for being straight forward. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

Concierge Desk P: +1 855-625-4283 NorwegianConciergeDesk@ncl.com | www.ncl.com Norwegian Cruise Line 7665 Corporate Center Drive | Miami FL 33126 Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

@Daniel A My advice based my upcoming trip to Europe is the following: Look at the Hotel they are booking and see if you can book it yourself, for less money and cancel (Full Refund ONLY or don't Cancel). You usually save a ton by doing it yourself. The ground transportation is a google search a way. I have two "Taxi's" set up. One for the Airport to the Hotel. The other from the Hotel to the Port. Far easier and less expensive than I thought. Let me add less confusing also. I have had all kinds of issue finding the representative especially on late flights. I don't like waiting for other planes to land for a bus to fill up. None of this is an issue when I handle it myself. Besides saving money on Pre/Post Hotel Stays, you can pick and choose the hotel based in your want to sightsee or not. An example is the hotel I choose is in the City Center of Athens, Greece. I read all the reviews, saved money and watched videos of the actual hotel on YouTube. Many folks want the cruise company to do all the arrangements. It is easier for them. In my case, it is less expensive and easier for me to handle it myself. This includes Air, Hotels and Ground Transportation. I also when out of the country, arrange my own Excursions or Sightseeing items I want to go to with the Use of Google Maps and YouTube which can be your best friend. I know I did not answer your exact question directly, however I do hope I helped in some way. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

As is clear from my CruiseCritic.com Signature. My next cruise is a 10-Day Mediterranean on NCL sister brand Oceania. Since everyone knows me as a big NCL Haven Enthusiast, I have been asked why I choose another brand. I am happy to explain but all I ask is, this is my reasoning, not anyone else. Research On Brands: I am sure it does not surprise anyone that I do extensive research on every cruise I do. This one was my first in Europe. I looked at NCL, Celebrity, Viking, Regent Seven Seas, Silver Seas, Ritz-Carlton, and a few others. On NCL and Celebrity, I had Suites and Haven/Retreat as separate columns. I had ever amenity and statistic including when the ship was built and or dry docked last. Reviews: I went to reviews, and Blogs for each brand on CruiseCritic.com to learn more about each brand. Likes, Loves and dislikes. Cost Analysis: On this cruise we have a self inflicted budget. This is because we are bringing friend with us that are not in the same financial position as we are. They gave us a budget and we stuck to it. Ports and Time In Ports: We wanted as much time in each port as possible. Some brands just give you a few hours and other give you almost a day. Size ship and Demographic of the Brand: We wanted a smaller ship for the second time in our lives. The first time was Crystal Cruises. It informed me less people on the ship means the ship does not have to be so big. The demographic is 55 and above and I am being kind. More like 65 and above. This cruise we wanted to get into the smaller ports without taking tenders, have less children, and a much more laid back cruise. We choose Oceania because it hit most of our boxes. We knew the night life ended early, at my age, perfect. We knew the entertainment we were used to on NCL was not going to happen. We knew there would be less rock and more Frank S. on the ship. We also knew the entire ship once a person left their stateroom, everyone was treated the same. We ended up getting a penthouse, huge room, butler, and very nice balcony. The suite amenities are very similar to Haven and Retreat. Now the ship I REALLY wanted to go on was the NCL Viva. It was 9 days instead of 10. The Fare in the Haven was literally over double. Out side the Haven was still more expensive. The other brands were sometimes twice as much as Viva, so high fares going to the same places. The times in the port were not as attractive. I sadly could NOT justify it but I will be in the Haven on the Viva one day. Now when I get back (Cruise is in November 2023) will do a review and compare my experience in the Haven with my Suite on Oceania. I hope that answers everyone's questions. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

@RD64 Extremely well said. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

Step 1: Call NCL Step 2: Find out what Expedited Passports Rules are. Step 3: Find out the closed Passport Office is and determine if you can make it there reasonably. Do all the Due Diligence before you roll the dice. My advice only. Cruise well, Enjoy every moment.

I get so frustrated when I read these kinds of question on Social Media. I think there is great advice on CruiseCritic.com. I am going to try to provide some below. However, this is a BIG issue that can literally cause huge difficulties. CALL THE CRUISE BRAND AND BETTER YET, UPDATE YOUR PASSPORT. Why risk the possibility when all you have to do is update your passport. I am also going to Europe. One of the ports has confusing information about Visas. Social media talks out of both sides of their mouth. My solution, buy the visas. Problem Solved. I rarely take this strong a stand but I have also been put in a place where simple decisions can create better outcomes. Please go save vs. sorry. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

@McGarrett5oh first, hello my friend. This question has as much to do with the person you speak with as it does NCL policy. If the first person says “NO”, professionally ask for a supervisor. now what I think you’re asking before is a good strategy. And I caution you, you are in a place where they can justify doing nothing. So the tone of your request and the way you outline it is critical. As a previous person, posting said, there was a high likelihood that they could give you onboard credit. That is always fun if you can get it. The other approach, which is what I preferred to do, is to get a nicer suite. An upgrade without doing an upgrade bid. another strategy is get the onboard credit, and then bid up to a nicer room at the minimum bid. That would be a double dip, and in my mind just plane fun and sport. The key words I always say, when dealing with people is, “ I know you don’t have to help me out, but I would appreciate a professional courtesy if you can see, fit in providing it.” Then tell him what would be good for you. cruise. Well, and enjoy every moment. Report back how this went. And don’t forget to eat the almond croissants.

You are using a purse to establish how someone acts and reacts. The term Average Joe or Jane used in this stream is based on Attitude, not bank account. The Haven guest could have saved up for a long time to have the experience or did a lucky upgrade bid. They also could have bought the suite full prices. How they carry themselves not the material things they bring on board is the real rating of Nose in the Air or not. My wife and I started our cruise experience 44 years ago in an bulk bed inside cabin. We had no money but just wanted to take our first real vacation. 30 cruise fast forward, we now fly to the cruise in 1st class, stay in suites and upgrade our drink program. When folks met me all I say is, "Isn't this experience wonderful." I don't follow that nor have I met folks that follow that with "Have you seen my Rolex Presidential with diamonds". The blogging on the Haven will go on for ever. It is very, very expensive. Is it worth it, probably not. It depends on your situation. Regardless, you will enjoy your cruise either way. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

@HappyTravels4ever $20,000 is quite the cruise and I envy the experience you are about to have. My question is, would you still take the same cruise if you got nothing from your TA except the booking and service? If so, then here is the strategy I would suggest. Choose the Cruise/Brand: Select the date, time, brand and suite category. Select the best credit card you have with the very best perks for cruises. Make sure when and if you book, who ever you use, at absolute minimum give you those perks. Select a T/A first on quality of service and then on special perks if you choose to go down that path. The T/A is the last selection because it is also the hardest. Do you want direct control of your reservation, choose the brand and lose the credit card perks. Do you want the cheapest ticket than consider third party booking sides that offer great discount with low service. Or do you want the best perks, and service that would be T/A but always remember. The more discounts, you have to ask yourself, how much of the service would be discounted as wall. Just my two cents. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

Hello All, I love the Haven and studied it for a long while. To have a bad experience at any part of a cruise vacation is a norm. Nothing is exactly the same. The Haven is no different. However it is rare and happens infrequently. Common sense tells use, mostly Average Joe's and Jane's go in the Haven. NOT folks that really want everyone to know how rich and powerful they are. These folks might have millions of dollars and other that are buying their trip over time. I look at it as if you are RVing. Some drive in with a tour bus and other have a pop-up. Both are cooking hot dogs for dinner right next to each other. As most of you know, I write and post all the time about the Haven. I have had so great Haven Adventures. Yet I have not cruised the haven recently. Instead, I my Next cruise is with NCL's sister line Oceania for a 10-day Mediterranean Cruise. Sometimes we want all the fun, excitement and craziness of a mega ship and other we want just lots of times in a port. We pick and choose our likes for the vacation experience we want. This OP will have a great time with his family if he gives up being upset on how he ended up in the NCL Haven. We can't help him on this nor is he asking. We can let him know, regardless of the price, he will have a very nice time. Simple as that. Cruise well and enjoy every moment..

We all worry about things at home. Just life. However it is better on a cruise ship than anywhere else in the world. The worry never goes away. Life however is to short not to embrace the positive aspects that make it worth living.

I went back to original post and re-read it. This was your first post on CruiseCritic.com and as you can see, lot of kind folks responded including myself. You have been given advice, thoughts and opinions. Some suited you and other did not. That is what social media is all about. Different frames of reference. No with all due respect, it is clear you will be going on my favorite of the NCL Ships the NCL Joy, in one of my favorite suites in my favorite area the Haven. You have made your final payment whether it was your idea or not. Time to shift the focus from the way you found out about the cost and cabin to having the time of your life and the people that love you. Read the streams on how to have the best time in the Haven, they will serve you well. I want to give you some very heart felt advice. It is time to simply forget about the investment you made or if it will be worth it. That is out of your control and based on your posts, you enjoy every ones company in your family. If you continue to feel somewhat manipulated based on your many posts, I assure you, this will not be a pleasant five days. I know, I have made that very mistake. Now focus on the Haven Horizon Observation Lounge, a very comfortable chair looking at the ocean with possibly a nice cup of coffee. It was my special and private place. Focus on the great time you will and have an I do suggest going on the go carts. I am 65 and had a ball. Now focus on enjoyment. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

Mic Drop.

@nitecapt You are new to CruiseCritic.com and I want to say welcome. Your post struck a nerve with me. I to was invited to go to a lake house only to find out I had to pay more then it would have cost me to book it myself. It is the principle of the thing for me. I found that to be both unacceptable and disrespectful. It makes me blood boil just thinking about it so I feel your pain. I rarely say things as strongly as I am going to say this to you. Please forgive me for my bluntness. You are paying WAY to much for a Haven Suite on a 5 day cruise. Something is wrong with this picture. My advice which I really should keep to myself but in this situation just can't is, cancel the cruise and don't go. I don't know if you have paid already or it is still before the final payment. This just does not make sense and the what you are outlining it happened, is infuriating to me because it happened to me, Just Once. That is all it took. I apologize but I had to say this. Now do what is right for you. Cruise or don't Cruise. If you do cruise, Cruise well and enjoy every moment.