Sthrngary

@McGarrett5oh Now we are talking and you taught me something. Since the Haven Restaurants don't take reservations, you may or may not get in at your desired time. The other thing most folks don't take into considerations is when eating in the Haven Restaurant, it takes a while. Just the way they are structured. Your idea of having that dinner at a specific time with your butler in you suite is Brilliant. I hope others read your post, well done. Order ahead with giving your butler that heads up you referred too in your earlier request. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

@latebloomer56 Not all ships have Starbucks. The bigger ones do like Encore and Joy. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

@FlyerTalker You are one interesting and educated traveler. I can't thank you enough for your incite. Flying and flight are truly you area of expertise and we can all learn a lot from you. Thank you for taking the time to educate us all. It matters. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

@McGarrett5oh Thank you for the kind words. It is always nice to let your cruise team know what your plans are so they can better schedule their respective work. Now I am going to say something that some might feel is unpopular. The Butlers on NCL do a nice job, yet never an truly GREAT job. Some will disagree with me and give many reasons. That was the unpopular statement I was referring. The more you explain your wants, needs and motives to your butler the better job they can do. That said, I have never gotten the idea they knew much about the ports, excursions or what to do to make you time there better. Where on other brands the butlers did know those things. Those other brands were Premium-Plus, Luxury and Ultra-Luxury brands. There is NO comparison on an NCL Butler to lets say a Regent Seven Seas Cruise Butler. This is not to say your Haven Butler will not do everything they can to accommodate any and all requests. So back to the core of your question. What you suggested is a good idea. Please tell us how it worked out. Thanks for asking. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

You just made a really important point. I hesitate to even mention it because there are some who are really experts on flights. They are sure to correct my thoughts which is always welcomed. The point you made was a Multi-Flight (Arriving at one airport/country and leaving from another) cost more money or points than round trip to the same country/airport. I did mock bookings and that became clear. I also realized I could do one ways and it would work out also. However since I was going into Athens and out of Barcelona; it was better to book at the same time. I even looked what it would take if I did round trip to Barcelona and took another flight from Barcelona to Athens. All the research was fun and really helped me do the right things. Thank you so much for your comments. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

Installment #4: Ground Transportation Overview: The easiest way to have ground transportation is to let the cruise brand take care of it. With the decision to make my own air and pre/post hotel reservations, this takes the cruise brand out of the equation. You can still purchase these transfers however I have never been a fan of cruise brands approach. I have also read many reviews of the transfers and I just feel with a little research, I can do much better. Methods of Transfers and Ground Transportation: Let’s look at the four (4) types of methods that are available. We need Airport to Hotel, Hotel to Port, Port to Hotel and Hotel to Airport. With a little research it becomes clear that Europe has much better mass transit than we have in the United States. Our choice for all four (4) of our needs is from least expensive to most expensive are as follows: 1) Bus 2) Trains/Metro’s 3) Taxi 4) Private Cars Airport to Hotel Transfers: Bus and Trains/Metros: This will take a walk from the airport baggage to one or the other terminal. When going on a 10-day cruise, this walk with luggage can be an issue. My group will love how inexpensive these options are. The good news is the bus is right outside the baggage claim. Get your ticket at the bus building and it should cost 6 euros each. The train is across the street and up an escalator followed by a walkway. A longer walk and remember your luggage is with you. The cost is 9 euros each. The trip is about 90 minutes. If I was alone, I would take the bus. Not to save the money just for the experience. We also need to understand that the bus will let you off at the terminal in town, not your hotel. If you need to go to the port, it will let you off but it might take some walking to get to your ship. I think my guests will veto these options however I wanted to have all options available. Taxi: This is usually a flat price to City Center of 40 Euros per car averaging at 20 Euros each. We would need two taxis for four people. There is also the possibility of a language issue which needs to be considered. If we choose the Taxi, I will have an index card with our hotel and address printed out in Greek. Private Car of Van: The Hotel in Athens can help arrange a car or van service. Because we are a party of 4, a van would be our best approach. This is the highest cost option however it will also be the most convenient option with the shortest time to our destination. 190 Euros, which is 48 Euros per person. Because our guests are on a budget, seem like this might be a bit too high for them. Conclusion: I think from an expense and logic standpoint, we will book two taxis. I still enjoyed the research and knowing the facts prior to getting off the flight. When I traveled Europe on business, I always took the Taxi’s from the Airport to the Hotels. I never had an issue and never felt I was being taken advantage of with the service. In closing, YouTube is your friend when traveling. Most of the information I get is from that social media source. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

Although I believe you make some valid points, the issue is "Realistic Expectations". These kinds of questions about what a butler will do and won't do are usually from folks that never had a butler before. One of the biggest topics on this and other Haven Threads is about butlers. I try to response to the questions based on my personal experience knowing I too was new to butler service some many years ago. If truth be told, the issue with Butlers and NCL is the number of suites they take care of and the other responsibilities over and above a normal butlers duties. Some are GREAT, some are average and others are well not so great. The solution is to always be kind and understanding. Butlers will go out of their way to make you happy is you connect with them on some level. That being said, my issue with all butler related threads is when folks make public the special stuff that are not policy that butlers have done for them in the past. Then the news guest with a butler for the first time gets disappointed when it is not done for them. I really feel the question posed was much more a clarification than asking a butler to do something out of the ordinary. I want to relate back to my Butler Letter which has evolved over many cruise with butlers. At first, I just did not want to be embarrassed by asking for something that was out of line. The more I cruised, the more I learned was acceptable and not acceptable. I found out that all your butler really needs is GREAT Communication. They might say no and sometimes they might do something very special. When one goes on other brands especially Premium-Plus, Luxury and Ultra-Luxury; all bets are off. These butlers will do anything you ask and really want you to ask. The difference is night and day. Those butlers look for hints of what a guest wants and likes. They also have a lot more time because they have a lot less suites. We all have to remember, NCL is a main stream cruise brand. Even the Haven is no the upper level of personalized service. Realistic Expectations. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

@PaulMCO I always love your posts. I have to agree that doing a comparison needs to be done to decide on every cruise. It becomes easier because the Amenities are the same based on stateroom. Also that you basically use the spreadsheet you make as a template for the next cruise adventure. I am sure you would agree, once you have done this kind of due diligence once or twice, you kind of know the three brands that will be the top choice. Either way, I find the entire process enjoyable where some really do not. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

@Mugennosora I never ask my butler to bring me alcohol at all on NCL. It is there policy to charge for the drinks regardless of the play you have. I always had the Premium Plus Beverage Package. Now some folks have had success with no charge. Don't count on it but ask your butler on day one. Coffee in the room is done per your instructions. Starbucks is the normal Haven Coffee and is no charge. Always ask your butler to provide room service only from the Haven Restaurant as long as it is open. Coffee from the Starbucks ship store is not something your butler can do. The key is on NCL, you need your suite card to get any drink or coffee from Starbucks. The butler does not have your key. Again, you will get mixed answers on the question you asked. Sometime just asking in a nice way when you are on the ship solves all issues. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

@Hearthosesteeldrumsplayin I am happy to help. Please remember some of the prices/fares have changed. I want you to know WHY I originally did this sheet and be completely transparent. I wanted to cruise on Regent Seven Seas Cruises because I originally thought it was totally and completely all inclusive. Study told me it was close but not 100%. When I say that the fares for RSSC were close to buying a New SUV, I extended my search out to other brands and stateroom categories. I love the "Ship-With-In-A-Ship" concept that MSC, NCL and Celebrity so I included NCL and Celebrity. I than included the suite below the VIP area for comparison. I then added Added Oceania. Once Oceania had the four category upgrade in Sept of 2022, my decision was made. I like bigger suites and I am not ashamed to say having a butler can make my cruise. I booked two penthouse suites (PH3) and stopped working on the spread sheet. Let me add, there is a tab at the bottom of the spread sheet that has some good information as well. If you have any question, simply reach out to me using @sthrngary and I will respond. Cruise well and enjoy every moment. Regent_Excel_01252023.xlsx

@davencl My first attempt at cruising on Oceania was 2020 with our best friends. Covid-19 forced a cancelation as happened to so many others. When planning that original cruise, I begged my friends to absolutely come at least the one day before the cruise embarkment. They had never cruised before and told me, "if we book our air with Oceania Air, they will hold the ship for us if the flights they gave us are late." Their real issue was the Pre-Hotel Expense if they came in a day early, because they are stretching their budget. I knew better and it was even worse since the flights were to Europe. Nothing I could say or do would change their minds. Then the cruise got cancelled. Fast forward. We rebooked for November 2023. This time I booked everything for both couples. This included the Oceania Pre-Cruise Hotel in Athens on purpose and did not ask permission. This meant Oceania would be obligated to fly them in the day before if they choose to use Oceania Air. I know this rule allowing a day or two early has recently changed but at the time, that was NOT the case. We ended up booking our flights direct with the airline. We also cancelled the pre-cruise hotel and booked it directly with the actual hotel for a huge savings. All it takes is one cruise to feel the anxiety and stress of Airline Issues. I and many others have felt this feeling and I want to avoid it for the rest of my life. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

@psac Oh no, say it is not so. I am so sorry, really. OK, then have the Chocolate Cake in Cagney's. A close second. You actually educated me on the Calcium Oxalate Stones. Thank you. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

@grobma Great comments. Thank you. FYI, everything I write is just my opinion. Does not make it right. You were to kind in the way you approached my past comments. I am currently on another cruise brand board. Let’s say, they are very vocal on many of my comments. Again, everyone has an opinion. Lol Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

@fasterflier All very true. Pros/Cons to doing it either way. My point in all this is, know what works best for you. Do your due diligence. Every one has different needs and approach. Evaluate and decide. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

There is "Right" and there is "What the Rules MAY Say". We are not talking about a massage on a Carnival Cruise Here (Used Brand To Make A Point, not be disrespectful). Let's say the Author had done this before with NO issue which is what was indicated. When he found out, it could not be used, he wanted his wife to have the massage. I would have done the same thing. When the supervisor came out and heard his issue, they should have simply cancelled the second massage. That is what classy organizations do. By not doing so, it showed a lack of care and understanding for a client on a Premium-Plus/Luxury Brand. When folks complain, the first thing I do is see how long they have been on CruiseCritic.com. Then I look at the post they have done. This author has been a member of CruiseCritic.com since 2016. They have very few post which simply means, they read the post and rarely want to engage. Except when they are treated poorly. To the Author, you did not deserve to be treated that way. Good customer service is a lost art. I hope it did not effect the rest of your cruise however it would have mine. Again, the spa should have simply cancelled with no 50%. That was wrong. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

@JoePDX Thank you for posting with such clarity and detail. This stream was created for everyone to help each other with a focus on travel when cruising. Your contribution is excellent. Delta has come through as much more client friendly in the past years. Again, thank you for your information. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

Thank every one for your excellent feedback, research, and clarification. The whole purpose for Social Media is the free exchange of ideas, opinions and debate. If we can learn one thing from this and other thread, it has been a success. Special thanks to @FlyerTalker for taking the time to provide expert approach, details and feedback. It was most appreciated. Now let's all get to our cruises happy and with the least amount of stress possible. Often times that is by doing a good plan to begin with. Still remember, Murphy's Law sometimes is something we can not predict. I hope to see everyone one day on a cruise I am on. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

If the flight schedule change was minor, they would have done nothing for me at any price ticket. On that we completely agree. Let's start over. If you purchase a Airline Ticket, please consider doing it well in advance. If you do, you will get the best price or miles redemption possible. I do it 330 for Delta because that is when they offer the routes and times. CHECK If you choose an itinerary that is not perfect however it fits your budget best by having long layovers and or extra legs, be happy with your choice. CHECK HOWEVER. If the Airline Changes any part of your flight, it MIGHT key word might, provide you with a way to gain the better Itinerary. This is regardless of full fare, discounted fair that is non-refundable/changeable. This of course has to do with the change and how severe it was made by the airline. Every airline is different and has different rules. If something changes, call the airline and see what they will or could do for you. CHECK. Therefore consider checking often, looking for emails from your air carrier and simply be aware. The best approach is call the air carrier. The worst thing they can say is NO. CHECK I recently did this on two (2) flights and it worked great for me. I consider this a POTENCIAL AIRLINE HACK. Why, because I used to travel for 40 years by air, the longer I had a flight, the more often the Itinerary/times would change. Nothing in life is a guarantee though. Worth the effort if you have the time. This thread was created after hearing all the pros/cons of using the cruise brand air fare. It got me thinking, lets look at ALL the options. For my situation, which may be different from everyone else, buying my own airfare very early, gave me lots of benefits at about the same investment. This may be different then your situation but give a potential path to consider. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

@FlyerTalker So I can clarify. The flight I booked and purchased for my friends joining was a fully refundable fare. That was by no means a cheap flight. The key and the reason why I called this a heck was, it is my experience, when you purchase a flight WAY in advance, changes get made by the airlines. As soon as they are, even if I would have purchased a non-refundable fare, they would have accommodated me. The whole emphasis here is, if you see a change, and want a different flight, call the carrier and see what they can do for you. The worst thing they can say is, NO/ Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

@lgdesign Wow, thank you for the very kind words. Even in todays say of Text an Email, nothing seems to get the job done better then a professionally written letter to the right folks. Extra work but worth the result. The real message you nailed by say things have changed in the last many years. It is more difficult today to fix these customer issue today than in the past. I hope every cruise brand read these post. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

I wrote this post twice and deleted it. It was to long and detailed. This is my third attempt. We are booked on an Oceania Mediterranean 10 day cruise for early November 2023. When we originally booked the cruise in September 2022, we included Pre/Post Hotels and Coach Airfare. The air supplement was $1,000.00 for this cruise. Over the next few months, while reading all the many post on using or not using Oceania Air, we decided to cancel the Oceania Air and book directly ourselves and cancel the Pre/Post hotels and book directly with the hotels. The two couples going wanted to leave from Birmingham, AL and not have to drive to the closest hub which is Atlanta, GA. That would have been over a two hour drive and parking costs. We also did not want to pay an additional supplement to Oceania Air to fly out of Birmingham instead of out of the hub Atlanta. This lead to our decision to book directly with Delta Airlines. However like everything in our world, our flights were NOT perfect and all flight legs were not identical for both couples. That was not ideal however, It was a cost decision when booking. We booked the air directly 330 day prior to the cruise date because that was when the air itineraries opened up. On the return we has a 8.5 hour lay over in Atlanta, GA again due to pricing issues making the earlier flight over budget. Yesterday I called Delta directly and had both couples flight in question changed for NO additional costs. The HACK was waiting for Delta to send a message that one or more of our connection legs had a time or equipment change. Once that happens, all bets are off. They gave both couples what would have been the much more expense connections with NO problem at all. I am criticized for spending to much time and effort on my vacation details. I fully understand I can be obsessive at times. Yet it is kind of a sport to get exactly what you want, for in this case a pretty good discount over that it would have originally been. So if you choose to book your own flights, look at it often for the changes by the airline. This was a very pleasant turn of event for my group. Side note, I did not share this positive turn of events with my group. None of them care about the details of this trip until the last possible second. Than the complaints begin and all eyes are on me. Don't worry, I can take the HEAT. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

@redmomof4 You are more than welcome. I would like to change something I said in the original posting. Until we here consistent positive comments on the Premium Plus Beverage Package again, that might be an items that MAY not have the same value as it once did. During my last cruise, it did not met up with my expectations. I think in the future it might bounce back but time will tell. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

@pinotlover Well said, well written and completely accurate. So if someone has the time, patience and cognitive abilities to do the due diligence, go for it. If not, allow Oceania or what ever cruise brand you choose be your "One-Stop-Shop". Write one check/credit card and let them take care of it. With that sound strategy comes the responsibility to know what you are getting and not getting. My main point is and away will be. Be informed so you can manage your "realistic expectations". That understanding make social media platforms like CruiseCritic.com a kinder and gentler place to visit. Thank you again for what I and other will consider an excellent post. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

@pinotlover Shooting Craps is an interesting choose of words. Not really good odds if losing is unacceptable. I think all of this debate on Air Travel for Cruise Lines really come down to confidence of the guest in the area of booking their own Flights. I personally engaged in this stream because of recent post from those who where very unhappy with their air provided by their cruise brand. The tone of those post were who ever the cruise brand were, it was that brands fault. In the last 10 years, the cruise industry has changed a lot. It has been somewhat of a roller-coaster. The cruise lines are having trouble just keeping their supplies stocked of everything you can imagine. The cost for supplies and personnel are higher across the board. They lost huge money during Covid and those loans need to be paid back. There current prices are going up and cutbacks are happening across the board. This does and will effect airfare provided because it is mostly controlled by the cruise brand. In my opinion, they should not offer airfare as part of their fares in todays market. They only do for marketing reasons. It gives the guest a false sense of security that they will get fare and reasonable flights, brands, and times. Where that does happen sometimes, it does not always. This leads to dissatisfaction with the brands. In todays market, we guest have to take back control of aspects of our cruise to insure our vacation will be as stressless as possible. Airfare, Pre/Post Hotels, booking specialty restaurant reservations as soon as available, knowing rules for each port, understanding the brands drink programs, and doing more planning than we ever had to do in the past. Not ideal but better then spending lots of money and becoming disillusioned on in this situation your airfare decision. Nothing is more frustrating than thinking you will have a stress free experience than fining out you have a 24 hour start to end point for a flight that should have taken less than 12 hours; you almost miss the flight because of delays the day of departure; of god forbid you miss the sailing and have to catch up at the first port. Not fun at all. We have to take some accountability for each decision we make and live with the consequences. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

@JustAPilot I can see why you and others feel this way. Loyalty goes in levels with the best a brand can achieve is actually called "Advocacy". To be a guest brand "Advocate" means you love the brand so much that you want everyone to know how great it is. All brands have loyal clients and Advocates. What happens is when the brand does not continue to improve overall client expectations, they start losing those guests as clients. The bigger the brand, the harder it for that brand to see they are losing guests. The smaller the brand, the better that brand can see what their clients want and how to improve the experience. Disney Cruises are still small enough to be in touch with client expectations. They also are NOT afraid of being one of the most expensive cruises for families. We all pay it to see Micky and Minnie. What has happen to NCL, Royal, Celebrity, Carnival, and HAL of recent is an increase in cost and a decrease in quality. Not huge but enough to recognize. New ships don't make up for a loss of engagement of the crew member because they have to do more work for the same wages. Team Members build brands not New Ships. When the brand is big, the team members can't handle minor issues because the brand does not want them to do so. That is why the computer applications they use are so rigid. The are to big and could not see any abuses if they were happening until it was too late. Do I buy that, no. I can understand why they feel that way. Where other brands, Disney is one, give empowerment to their team members. Sorry for writing so much on this topic. It is important for all brands of all products to understand your team members make the brand. Give them the opportunity to take care of your guests. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.