in rod we trust

47 minutes ago, MicCanberra said:

You keep on about destroying the whole bay, the facts are not in as yet, and if it does go ahead, provisions would be made so that it will not destroy any part of it.

Fishing is only more essential than a cruise in you opinion, again no facts. 

Although the 1 fact that you have posted previously and are now contradicting is that fishing in the bay is not feeding anyone or helping anyone survive.

the facts are there you just choose to ignore them as you have all this time ..

again you don't read it .. I said I don't eat fish from there as there is no fish in most bays I like to eat..  many people eat fish from botany and Sydney harbor .. its just me that doesn't eat them ..

33 minutes ago, The_Big_M said:

 

Another glib one liner "they can streamline their timetables to do it" ignoring the other questions - and ignoring reality.

 

So you seriously write off the transfer of ~12000 people into the space of about 2 hours - plus all their luggage on and off the ship - plus all the refuelling and provisions loading for 1-2 weeks into that short window - and also all over the peak hour period when harbour and local logistics is highest. And it all can be done with your magic wand: "they can streamline the procedures".

 

Here's a clue for you though you never listen. NO transport infrastructure has that equivalent volume load over that period of time, anywhere in the world. The closest analogue are trains - mass transit - which can carry 2000 in 8 minutes so potentially that number in an hour BUT without the need for:

- Immigration/passport control and checking

- Luggage handling

- Passenger checkin

- Emergency drill procedures

- Cargo loading (provisioning)

- Refueling

 

And further would require a massive increase in terminal space to enable the massive increase in parallel processing you write off. Plus remove any ability for tolerances i.e. delays in case of any issue such as health or security or weather.

 

Honestly, your statements are plain ridiculous, all made to satisfy your ideology and personal preferences.

so what makes you think botany bay can handle all of that as well.. all that you said above just adds to the con's of why it should not be built at botany bay  so thanks for that post ...

  have you even seen or checked the amount of containers leave botany bay terminal .. 

tell me why we need 6000 passenger ships in Sydney , if they cannot fit then its there bad luck other will take up there berthing slots you can bet on that ..

still looking for the pro's of botany bay .. is there any other than convenience  

here is something you can read as well 

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/forget-port-botany-for-cruise-ships-even-the-red-cross-supports-garden-island-20200116-p53ry8.html

1 hour ago, gbenjo said:

No.....don't know enough about it yet.         Millions into the local economy..not worth mentioning...maybe they could incorporate  a centrelink office into the new  terminal so all the local protesters could duck down and collect their dole cheques.

millions  lol yeah right maybe to the pockets of royal carribean but not Sydney 

still waiting on the pro's of it been built at botany … anybody got any .. 

20 minutes ago, GUT2407 said:

Of course it is for convenience, otherwise we don’t need any cruise terminals anywhere, they aren’t exactly essential services, but then neither is fishing, sunbathing, or air flights.

that's just the answer I was looking for .. thankyou..

other than that I notices your quote in your sig ''come from a land down under'' ..  

maybe all aussie cruise travellers should read that and ask themselves is my land more important than my convenience ..    will I  support the risk of destroying  a whole bay for it..   

fishing is more essential than any cruise boat in this world  it lets communities survive and feed themselves .. 

3 hours ago, gbenjo said:

 

It is only your opinion that the whole bay will be destroyed.

By your own admission ( redactions etc) ,you don't know all the details of what they are planning to do so how can you say what will happen. ONCE they decide on a site, probably still a year away ,I am sure there will be extensive checks and balances put  in place taken to preserve the Bay, especially considering the amount of  resistance you and your "lot" will present. 

there is enough info put forward by port authority on where its going to be how big it is and turning basin's of ships, and as anyone who has been to botany for many yrs know a break wall will have to be built, .. we also know that there is dangerous seabed spoil all over the bay that epa mentions shouldn't be disturbed .. there is plenty info as why it is dangerous to build it there .. but like you have done you choose not to read it ..you talk about extensive checks and balances we all know and im sure you do that you cannot trust any politician or companies when it comes to big contracts and the truth.. 

other wise port authority and nsw state liberals would make the whole report open to public judgement .. no matter which way you try word it .. if they have nothing to hide  release the report for all to see.. its that simple..

10 hours ago, The_Big_M said:

At midnight. So a whole bunch of people are getting off the ship late in the evening, and have to make their own way home at that time, and then a whole new group of people are getting on after 9 p.m. so have spent all day waiting and then are up at midnight just chasing up their luggage and so on, for a 2 a.m fire drill and 3 a.m sailaway. Yes, that makes a whole lot of sense, and makes for a great end of holiday for those leaving, and a great start for those arriving.

 

Can you tell me anywhere else in the world that that happens? Is that something that you would like as a tourist? You keep saying how great the OPT and Sydney Harbour is for tourists as though that's the most important argument, then come up with cockamamie suggestions like this. As said before, it just goes to show that you aren't here to discuss constructively but just continue with irrelevant fears and impossible and unrealistic "better options".

 .. they can streamline there timetables to be able to do it ..   oh but that's not a option its not convenient for people ..oh ok forgot its about convenience for both the passenger and cruise line... ok now we are getting somewhere  the proposed botany bay terminal its for convenience only  ..

the port authority has also put a suggestion forward of ship limits in the opt port and white bay better streamline  of timetables could also solve Sydney cruise ships capacity ..

at the moment there is no ship docked at opt terminal .. if port authority and cruise lines  streamline there timetables it will also help.. a ship could be there now as the last left around 4pm so another one could of been docked there now .. 

here is a useful link for all those coming into Sydney you can check out smoke haze etc with it and there is few other live cam's around Sydney  you can google as well

https://webcamsydney.com/

im sorry but this is a thread for the port botany terminal .. im not here to win, or bag anybody out etc ..    I liked when I went on cruises , but at the same time I just don't want to see so much destruction to build a cruise port at botany bay..  to me its silly as the cruise industry is just putting itself at risk considering people don't want it , it will bring bad attention to them and there ways .. do they honestly think people are just going to sit back and cop it without any bad publicity to them and other cruise ships..  they better think again we see all over different ports of the world people starting to protest against there ways and destruction..

im just wanting to know the pro's as why it should be built at yarra bay or mollineaux point considering all the negatives about it.. also why the port authority will not release the info required so all can see the pro's and con's

so please let me know the pro's of destroying a whole bay for a cruise ship terminal at botany..  

49 minutes ago, in rod we trust said:

I have stated many facts and even mentioned using Newcastle or port kembla even eden    but as for some of you's its not in Sydney and you only want a port of convenience .. so don't tell me about pro's and con's ive stated facts of con's and even got the port authority report to see there pro's about it but all of it has been redacted .. if there are pro's that would be good for the environment why not release it to silence people like me and sway my and others opinion .. as I mentioned its not a national security matter so why hide the report..  tell me what pro's you have of it destroying a bay dredging cancer causing toxins and stirring them thru out the whole bay that families swim in.dumping the seabed spoil off the coast to be washed back up onto Sydney beaches . destroying what little beach the indigenous people in Sydney basin use today. disrupt the whole eco system of the  bay kill fish stocks with the dredging, destroy sea grass beds , build a massive new breakwall that will deflect  the swell and wave pattern and under currents in a different direction that will impact the south side kurnell area ..  have it built less than 50 mtrs from gas storage containers and gas storage caverns built under botany bay .. there are also  pipe lines under yarra bay..  have all that toxic co2 , sulphur and nox pollution from ship stacks blowing across the bay or into the local suburb , increased traffic congestion as its already at grid lock at botany ..  I have left more negative stuff out or I would be here all morning post it up..

 

so tell me the pro's other than a port of  convenience for you ..  

here are just a few more for you before I go to work or I would have to take day off mentioning all the negatives 

Sydney pilots association have voiced the there concerns about plane safety due to excessive height of these mega ships..they do not want it there at all..

the bay has a  height limit of 48 mtrs from water line to top of ship ..oasis class is 72 mtrs  above water line.. some ships have been denied entry due to low level take offs due to  bush fire smoke . 

dolphins use that bay seals use that bay , there is a colony of endangered seahorses that live there  and no where else .

breakwall would change the tidal flow into that area and block off entry to the bay for dolphins and seals not to mention they would disappear again from the dredging , 

tidal flow changes  from breakwall will kill of 400 yr old coral reefs as mentioned by scientist that study that reef .

the whole of botany bay is exposed to dangerous winds and tides and bad swells  2mtr during summer  and in the past, tug boats have had to put ships out to sea and also struggled doing so . 

other smaller cruise lines have said they would rather stick to Sydney harbor than botany bay as there passengers want to see the harbor not botany ..

if the pax cannot be built there passengers would have to be bussed to a near by facility to be processed  as stated by port authority report. 

the EPA has advised against dredging anymore of botany bay as not to disturb those cancer causing toxins.. 

there is still more 

but for now I want to read your pros for building it there ..

6 hours ago, gbenjo said:

So you can read redacted reports and make assumptions that, according to you, are the only correct ones ( they told us at the” meeting”)and that’s ok, but because some one else disagrees with you we are all wrong. Unfortunately  we have had to read post after post of your unsubstantiated dribble / drivel  but when someone points out your obvious inaccuracies  you just come out with more of the same.You or I or anybody else don’t know the real outcome of building the new terminal, we don’t even know where it will be built as yet, so any assumption is purely that.

 you asked for a report of why I think royal carribean wanted it there .. I posted one in black and white for you to read the ceo of royal carribean stating they are lobbying the nsw gov to build it and would also contribute to the port building .. the facts you asked but you choose to ignore it  .. so if you choose to ignore facts  or read it but yet call people's black and white facts for all to see dribble ..  look who is in denial about real facts whats wrong will it upset you or will you see that im right .. either way you still choose to ignore facts about the whole thing.. 

3 hours ago, The_Big_M said:

 

That's been obvious to date, hence the nimbyism. You're not here to come up with any solution, or discuss pros and cons, or even look at any commonsense solution. You're just here to oppose because you don't want it where you go fishing, which is pure nimbyism.

 

Oh, and _I'm_ clutching at straws?? <rofl> You make claims that have no basis in reality... The only reason the two locations at Botany Bay are on the radar is because of Collins report. You clearly have no idea...

I have stated many facts and even mentioned using Newcastle or port kembla even eden    but as for some of you's its not in Sydney and you only want a port of convenience .. so don't tell me about pro's and con's ive stated facts of con's and even got the port authority report to see there pro's about it but all of it has been redacted .. if there are pro's that would be good for the environment why not release it to silence people like me and sway my and others opinion .. as I mentioned its not a national security matter so why hide the report..  tell me what pro's you have of it destroying a bay dredging cancer causing toxins and stirring them thru out the whole bay that families swim in.dumping the seabed spoil off the coast to be washed back up onto Sydney beaches . destroying what little beach the indigenous people in Sydney basin use today. disrupt the whole eco system of the  bay kill fish stocks with the dredging, destroy sea grass beds , build a massive new breakwall that will deflect  the swell and wave pattern and under currents in a different direction that will impact the south side kurnell area ..  have it built less than 50 mtrs from gas storage containers and gas storage caverns built under botany bay .. there are also  pipe lines under yarra bay..  have all that toxic co2 , sulphur and nox pollution from ship stacks blowing across the bay or into the local suburb , increased traffic congestion as its already at grid lock at botany ..  I have left more negative stuff out or I would be here all morning post it up..

so tell me the pro's other than a port of  convenience for you ..  

10 minutes ago, MicCanberra said:

So it sounds like you don't fish in Botany bay after all.

 I fish there I take the girls to catch kingfish and slimy mackerel etc and nephews as well  as they love the fight of them , I keep catch slimy macks as bait for when hairtail season comes in the winter I also fish in Sydney harbor and Hawkesbury river, jervis bay , st George basin eden , Newcastle , south west rocks .. etc etc etc ,, I see how we must protect our beautiful bays .. not destroy them for a useless cruise ship terminal 

https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/opinion/article/2091525/how-hong-kong-governments-poor-maths-sank-kai-tak-cruise-terminal

https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/opinion/article/2091525/how-hong-kong-governments-poor-maths-sank-kai-tak-cruise-terminal

3 minutes ago, MicCanberra said:

Why do you eat the fish you catch outside in the ocean, wouldn't they get soggy? Wouldn't it be too cold in winter?

ill catch about 2 tuna couple dolphin fish and that does me for the yr  the rest go back and is just for sport , I will also go Hawkesbury river and catch hairtail in winter as I like eating that fish.. I also go prawning as well up the central coast holiday house 

3 minutes ago, gbenjo said:

Ah I  see...just goes to  show when you don't have all the correct information  you can come to a wrong conclusion...if you know what I mean

only you can as you don't read anything 

here is a live camera in Sydney just so you can see how much toxic co2 exhaust they spew out and this is just at port imagine when they are at full power ..

better to look in the day great tool to show the climate change people just how bad c02 emissions are from these ships https://balticlivecam.com/cameras/australia/sydney/sydney-harbour/

23 minutes ago, gbenjo said:

Now I am confused...you stated earlier that all the fish you catch you release but now you are saying you eat fish but catch your own..can’t have it both ways Roddy boy.

all the fish in botany bay and Sydney harbor  yeah that's true I don't eat them .. many do tho .. I still eat fish I catch outside in the ocean

by the way did ya catch the news and seen all that terrible smoke billowing out of that cruise ship at circular quay  .. oh you might trying to ignore that bit..  sorry

1 hour ago, Aus Traveller said:

He says he doesn't eat the fish he catches. He releases them.🙂

at least somebody reads post , I do eat fish but I catch my own and only ceratin fish no bottom bat dwellers from any bays in Sydney region ..  or imported fish from Vietnam or other countries like china etc where there food standards are much lower than aust..

if anybody is watching channel 7 or  9 news right now have a look at the amount of pathetic smoke coming out of that cruise ship live in the background at circular quay  that is pathetic 

Just now, GUT2407 said:

And blowed if I know how a cruise terminal can damage a Bay, that according to our local Expert is full of toxic sludge

not going to bother answering  as you blokes are in denial of the amount of damage .. your to worried about port of convenience rather than save your own country..  and even after all the wildlife killed in bushfires .. I guess out of sight out of mind for you blokes when it comes to eco system, or any other reason's that I have posted that are facts. if ya cant see the destruction or never have, then you don't believe it or maybe you just rather believe  the gov when they say it will be fine. just like the rfa told them the bushland was dry and they could have a massive bush fire.. but the nsw liberals and federal gov  refused to believe the rfa and did nothing now look at the destruction it caused 

8 hours ago, gbenjo said:

And they would need the whole fleet to remove some of the rubbish you and your lot are coming out with.

is that why you go on cruise ships so much dump all your excess verbal rubbish overboard ..  right ok now I get where you at .. you need oasis class you need a bigger ship  

2 hours ago, The_Big_M said:

 

Because those of us with an interest in cruising have been following the facts and progress for some time, that's how we know.

 

And yes, the government took notice of his report as Yarra Bay and Molineux Point were two of the recommendations from his report.

 

 

Yes and that's a very valid issue. Or do you have a suggestion that you haven't shared yet that the Harbour Bridge be raised???

 

As for the occupancy of all the ships that don't fit under the Harbour Bridge your statement is again incorrect, and the majority are over booked (as headcount is on a twin share basis). They don't just run them half empty.

 

I'll leave the comments on the rest of your responses as others have already corrected them above...

for all I care they can go under the bridge and get stuck who cares about it I don't study how big all ships that come into the harbor  as when im in the harbor I always see them at white bay or barangaroo  when that was a terminal .. phill Collins report was for garden island not botany bay ..he was at our meeting 

no matter what way you present it your just clutching at straws ..   as there is no reason as to why they would risk a whole bay just for royal carribean oasis class ships .. I thing   good that has come out of these bushfires is people are now more aware of government destruction and in  favour big companies over the environment .. and the change is coming so thank god for that.. people are starting is change maybe not couple of you's on here that still rather a cruise port for  convenience  no matter what is destroyed to get it .. that's just selfish .. destroy your own country for your convenience  .. how great is that ..  id be ashamed of that  ..

I don't live anywhere near botany but yet still don't want to see it destroyed , I cruise when I can might not be as much or as regular as some of you blokes  , but at least im willing to save our country and the land I love over cruising .. 

8 hours ago, MicCanberra said:

With holes in their mouths/ throats and severely traumatised.

so what do you think dredging all those cancer causing toxins  will do to the environment fish stocks , shell fish, etc etc not to mention sea grass  ..  

8 hours ago, MicCanberra said:

So does Cruising

I  doubt that considering  the cruise industry is trying to destroy botany and cayman island as well as many other places on the planet ..

you would be boycotting any cruise line that wants to rip up the environment .. only when people start be responsible will things change by boycotting they would pull out of the idea and tell governments we don want any eco system or natural , or indigenous people's land destroyed..