havoc315

correct… so I’d be paying $2-$6 per day in drink tips.

I did exclude them. That’s 3/4ths of adult passengers. Official capacity is just 2 per cabin. That’s why cruises sail above 100% capacity (kids). And I already have you a source that it’s much more than $1,000 per month. NCL pays a base pay of $3k-5k per month, and bar tenders earn another $1-2k per month in tips according to Glassdoor. Another way to look at the math — NCLs drink package is far more expensive than most other cruise lines… even luxury lines. So that would suggest NCL pays their bartenders far more than other cruise lines and/or has a much better staffing ratio. Again, I have no idea whether the bar staff truly gets all of the “gratuity” charge or not. But the numbers are a bit suspect.

https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Norwegian-Cruise-Line-Holdings-Ltd-Bartender-Salaries-E9937_D_KO35,44.htm https://cruiseradio.net/smallest-to-largest-norwegian-cruise-line-ships-by-size/

Correct, the $1,000-$2,000 per day was pretty conservative. May be more like $4,000-$6,000 per day. Could be at low as $500 per day… if there are more bar attendants than room stewards and housekeepers. We actually can do the math backwards. According to Glassdoor, NCL bartenders earn $1,000-$2,000 per month in tips. So $33 to $66 per day in tips. If guests are paying $22 per day — that means there is 1 bartender / bar staff for every 1.5-3 people paying for the drink package. Let’s do the math… NCL Encore — capacity of 4,000 with 2 people per cabin. Those first 2 are typically adults, getting FAS. But let’s be conservative — only 3,000 on FAS. So 1.5-3 people per 1 bar staff. That would mean the Encore has 1,000-1,500 bar staff members.. But total crew is 1735. So, if the gratuities are truly being used as gratuities for the bar staff (including sommeliers, bar waiters, etc) — that means 60-90% of the staff is bar staff. Hmmm, the numbers just aren’t adding up.

Think you’re confusing a lie for a misleading statement. If you have to do “research”… finding that the words don’t have their usual meaning.. that’s what makes something misleading. It’s not a “lie”—- since there is an asterisk, and on page 5 of the terms and conditions, you can learn there are charges so it’s not actually free… A “lie” is a statement plainly untrue. A “misleading statement” is a statement that suggests one thing, but more “research” shows is means something else. Yes— lots of cruise lines use misleading marketing. yes, lots of companies engage in misleading marketing, not just cruise lines. Jist because it’s common, doesn’t mean it’s not misleading.

I honestly don’t know. But if every penny is being given to the bat staff, then the bartenders would be making about $1,000-$2,000 per day. (Or about $7,000-$14,000 per week… $30,000-$60,000 per month). If that’s the case, great for them! If that’s not the case, then suggesting the 20% is a gratuity is extremely misleading And I wonder, if they are willing to give unlimited alcohol and soda for “free” to those over 21, why aren’t they willing to give “free” soda to those under 21? Doesn’t make sense… if the 20% is truly just being used for bar staff gratuities.

So you believe the bartenders are getting 100% of the “gratuities?” That may indeed be true, and was one of my questions. But I suspect the gratuities are simply going into general NCL revenue. Meaning, it’s a $22 per day drink package.

???? Bad faith. By having a discussion on an Internet forum? Only bad faith here, is your bizarre attempt to squash discussion. They aren’t well established at all. So ok, does 100% of the gratuity charge go to the bartending staff? You said this is well established. So what’s the answer? It is misleading. It’s known to frequent NCL cruisers… it’s known to the people on this forum. It is not so clear and known to every person who books a NCL cruise. I had a friend tell me recently, that if I didn’t book my cruise by the next day, I’d miss out on NCL’s free drinks promotion. So you’re saying —- since people already know that NCL is misleading, it is misleading to discuss how they are being misleading?!? And I still don’t understand why you care whether people discuss that NCL’s marketing is misleading. Ok, you don’t personally feel it’s misleading. Good for you. What’s your problem with other people discussing they do feel it’s misleading?

Since it’s a promo that runs 100% of the time, I don’t think anybody is paying the $109.

huh? You mean they don’t market “Free at Sea”? You mean they don’t charge more for it? You blatantly stated “it doesn’t need to point it out”.. and claimed that pointing out well established facts is somehow “misleading” An honest discussion of facts is “misleading” — your bizarre accusation. Lol. Companies in American jurisdiction have gotten into lots of trouble burying terms in fine print. Under some circumstances, it meets the definition of consumer fraud.

NCL is the one trying to create a narrative. Yes, lots of companies in their marketing and advertising throw around the word “free” very loosely. Because they know it’s an appealing word. And most consumers come to understand it usually just means “included in the base price.” NCL is taking a couple more steps beyond this — not included in base price at all, but you still have to pay a pretty significant amount. Then, a further step — they are calling it “gratuities”— but it does not appear to actually represent gratuities. A gratuity is an optional payment given to staff above their salary. is that what the money is actually being used for? (I don’t know the answer… maybe someone here does know). And as a gratuity is an optional payment, can I opt for FAS but opt out of the gratuity? and on a discussion forum, what’s wrong with discussing it????

??? So NCL isn’t misleading in their use of the word free, because nobody should take it seriously to begin with? But if someone points out that it’s not really free, then they are the misleading person?

I’m curious if FAS gratuities actually all go to bar staff and wait staff (doubtful), or it just goes directly into NCL revenue, which pays a set amount to bar staff. It all really is just a misleading promotion — it’s not “free” at all. In reality, $21 per day probably covers NCL’s actual costs for labor and alcohol. (Their drink cost is less than $2 per drink. So if the average guest has 4 drinks in a day (some more, some less)… that’s about $8 worth of alcohol and $13 towards labor). But yes, it’s definitely not free. Most cruise lines that don’t give “free” drink packages price their packages between $50 and $100 per day. So at best, can look at NCL’s “free at sea” as a discounted drink package.

And Horseshoe bay after the crowds started to arrive:

Did NCL Dawn to Bermuda 10 years ago, going back on the Gem this summer. Agree with others, that there is no need to book through the cruise line. If you're an early riser, I'd suggest taking a taxi to Horseshoe Bay BEFORE all the buses. Get there nice and early in the morning, and have 1 of the most beautiful beaches in the entire world, almost totally to yourself for up to an hour. Photos attached. The Crystal Caves are worth doing, but let's put it this way -- I'm not repeating it. You dock at the Royal Dockyard. St. George's is worth seeing, it's a UNESCO World Heritage Site, but we aware it's pretty far from the dockyard -- NCL typically will run their own "free" ferry to St. George's, but it's almost an hour ride each way.

“deceptive planning” is your spin. Not anything the OP said or implied. Pretty poor deception planning to do it in front of the bartender. So you’re saying that because bartenders are busy, they may use their discretion not to enforce every rule all the time. Ok.

That's quite an interpretation. So you think the bartender is blind, while this is being done right in front of the bartender? That's quite a deception, so they are going to hypnotize the bartender while they do it? You're adding the word "deceptively" --- How can it be a deception if it's being done right in front of the bartender, with the bartender's knowledge?

First, the OP only asked whether the rule is enforced, in the situation she suggested -- Sitting at the bar, asking for a mocktail for a friend. Did not ask everyone to weigh in with their moral judgments of the practice. Second, as you realize the "free" package isn't actually "free," you must also realize that the pricing is already built into the cruise, which already budgets for total consumption on a cruise. The vast majority of adult cruisers are on the FAS package -- Including plenty of people who don't even drink alcohol. Plenty of people just see "Free at sea" -- which is added by default, unless you opt out. Most people don't see a reason to opt our of something free, even when they realize they "just have to pay the gratuities." So between the fact that the vast majority of people get the package, and the fact that it is already priced into the cruise fare, and the fact that there are already rules to prevent widespread abuse (typically all adults on the reservation need to be on the same package, so you can't have widespread family members sharing the package. One person can only get 2 drinks at a time, so 1 person with the package can't go get drinks for all their friends). If bartenders decide to go a little loose with the rules and let a few mocktails slide (a mocktail that ultimately really costs NCL a few pennies), that is not going to change anyone's fare. OP asked whether the rules are enforced: The answer is, sometimes the bartenders will insist on seeing each card, sometimes they will take just 1 card and not care. No reason to weigh in with moral judgments.

Not because they are “duped.” Is an American waiter “duped” into taking a waiter job? We should tip for expected service because that’s the way the compensation works. Just as you would tip your American waiter 18-25% for their service, even if it is just “average” service — that’s the way the compensation works. That’s the compensation model.

It’s the plain meaning of what the OP posted. Where did the OP suggest any attempt to lie to the bartender?

Will the bartender enforce the rule — while they are sitting at the bar, in full view of the bartender. Of course that’s a question of discretion. There was no secret conspiracy — the OP said explicitly, as they sit together at the bar or dinner table. That’s the bartenders discretion. At no time did the OP suggest lying to the bartender.

Then you haven’t been reading the posts suggesting that tipping should be saved only for extraordinary service. Im talking about the Philippines, not “everywhere.” The standard of living is MUCH lower. Middle class in the Philippines means actually having drinking water and electricity. The average Filipino isn’t buying cars, taking cruise vacations, etc. yes, a bowl of rice is cheaper in the Philippines than the US, but they are not living up to our standard of living. They do NOT have our quality of healthcare — life expectancy is much lower in the Philippines. And yes, some Americans do retire to places like that — because such communities are so poor and desperate, that you can live like a king for a few American dollars. Any insinuation that they are “lucky” to earn a base salary of $5 to $10 per hour on a cruise ship is ridiculously patronizing.

OP asked whether the bartenders ever use discretion to let someone get a second drink for someone else. There is nothing deceptive about that. The bartender can allow it, the bartender can enforce the rule and not allow it. That’s not theft, that’s not unethical.

And there is absolutely nothing ethically wrong with the bartender using their discretion on when to charge. “Stealing” isn’t an ethics accusation — it’s an actual crime. If there is no deception, there is no theft, no ethics violation.

You don’t understand global economics. Yes, their money buys more in their home country. No, it doesn’t buy cruise vacations. It’s a MUCH lower standard of living. No, they aren’t tricked into working on a cruise ship. They don’t because the entire compensation — including tips — makes it worthwhile. Just like even in the US, workers will take below minimum-wage jobs as waitstaff knowing that tips are a major part of the compensation. When someone fails to tip for expected service, they are taking expected income away. Honestly, I’d be a bit sickened by the idea of anyone who is paying $10,000 for a suite who would say, “why should I tip my butler $100 for doing his job?”