havoc315

I suggest a few potential haven perks above.

I’m not even suggesting true “all inclusive.” Regardless, for Haven perks, for regular guest experience, etc, there is a business cycle of growth vs contraction. “Guest satisfaction is down, repeat bookings are down, losing customers to competitors that offer more!” — eventually this leads to “invest in adding more benefits, invest in outdoing the competition, invest in improving the guest experience” Then eventually comes the contraction cycle, “we can increase our profitability by cutting some of our costs and increased our upcharges. Let’s cut some of those production shows. Instead of 1 butler serving 6 suites, we can make do with 1 butler for 12 suites.. we can offer cheaper food in the MDR… charge more for room service..”

We know they are small, because we know what NCL charges for them. Upgrading drink package: $29 per person, per day. Obviously, it costs NCL less than that. Estimate the cost to NCL is $15 per day (probably even less). 7-day cruise — that’s $210. Pre-paid specialty meal — $45-$50. Let’s conservatively say it costs NCL $35. So a dinner for 2– $70. Thermal spa doesn’t really have any “added” cost for NCL — if anything, giving 1 day passes to Haven guests may make more money from NCL as guests love it and upgrade to a 1 week pass. But being conservative, let’s say a 1-day pass for 2 guests “costs” NCL $100. So at most, my suggested extras would “cost” NCL another $380. That’s conservative, it’s likely far less. On any given week long cruise, a suite may run $5000+ more than a balcony cabin. So yes, with NCL taking it an additional $5000 of revenue, $380 in perks is relatively small. (If I was more liberal in my estimates, I’d dare say my suggest perks are only costing NCL about another $150-$200).

Some thoughts on comments in this thread: 1. charging for drinks to the room — I wonder if this is directly NCL being cheap, or they simply fear butlers would be running around constantly as drink servers, unable to have time for anything else. (Which is still indirect NCL being cheap as they could hire more butlers). 2. Yes,Haven is about making guests FEEL special. So they probably don’t want to loudly blast “here is the long list of things you don’t get.” 3. Yes, it would be nice if NCL waived the up charges on extra activities for Haven guests, but there would be the danger of crowding out many non-Haven guests. Still, there could be a happy medium — such as given Haven guests a 1-day pass to the Thermal spa. Upgrade FAS for Haven guests automatically to the Premium plus beverage package. Give Haven guests an extra specialty dining credit (especially on older ships that don’t have a Haven restaurant for dinner). For the price of a suite, these things are relatively small and would go a long way to making Haven guests feel more “special.”

While people say they hate “nickel and diming”— customer buying shows the opposite, for exactly that reason. Where given the option, plenty of customers will pick the bargain barebones “$299” (airfare, cruise fare, hotel room, whatever) rather than the $429 all-inclusive rate, etc. If NCL were to become “all inclusive”, the starting prices would be significantly higher. NCL isn’t Seven Seas. So to some extent, when people complain about the nickel and diming, it’s kind of like complaining that your inside cabin doesn’t have a window. You get what you pay for. That said, I think it’s legitimate to complain about the unending constant barrage of extra charges and upselling.

It's often a matter of reasonable versus unreasonable expectations. Some negative reviewers lack cruise experience. They are shocked to find they have to tender to port, or that cabins are smaller than hotel rooms. Expecting your room steward to serve as a butler -- Unreasonable. Expecting your room steward to keep your cabin made up, provide towels and blankets -- Reasonable. Expecting to be able to see most, if not all, of a ship's premium entertainment -- Reasonable. Expecting to always get the front row for your preference of times, without reservations, unreasonable. Expecting to be able to get a drink somewhere near the pool without waiting more than 2-4 minutes -- Reasonable. (You shouldn't have walk to a different deck in your swimsuit to grab a beer), expecting premium cocktails on demand with no wait -- Reasonable on a luxury line, not reasonable on a mass consumer line. Even distinguishing between between whether you paid for a Haven experience or regular experience, affects what expectations are reasonable. Your cabin not being ready by 2pm on embarkation day may not be reasonable complaint for a regular guest, but it would be a reasonable expectation for a Haven guest.

This is why context is important. Is there a line at 1 bar, but no wait if you just walk to the other side of the pool? Or is there a long line at almost every bar? Is there a 15 minute backup at the buffet at 6:30pm, or a 45 minute back up at 6:30… and a 20 minute back up even at 5pm and 8pm? Your example of Syd Norman’s demonstrates a very valid complaint — entertainment venues built too small for demand, insufficient counter programming to regulate demand. As to “space savers” in line, it’s still a question of context. Is it an extended party of 12 people, 10 are in line, holding a space for elderly grandparents who move a bit slower… Or is it the opposite, 1 person saving a space for 10.

In fairness, depending on degree, I have no problem with people complaining about lines. Long lines can be avoided with proper service and management by the cruise line. If there is a 30 minute line at the bar, maybe there should be 2-3 bar tenders instead of just 1, for example. So yes, complaining that it took 15 minutes to get through security, or that you had to wait 20 minutes for a table when you showed up at dinner at 6pm... Those are hyperbolic complaints. But it is fair to expect a cruise line to have adequate planning and adequate staffing to avoid unnecessary backlogs of people.

In all seriousness, I like reading the reviews, and the bad reviews are the most helpful. I'll typically ignore the 5 star reviews --- You paid a ton of money for a vacation, and had a great time. Wonderful -- that's how it's supposed to be on every vacation, but I may as well just read NCL promotional materials. So in reading the more negative reviews: -- Many I can easily dismiss as someone who is just difficult to please. ("the comedian wasn't very funny... the ship officers didn't even say hello in the elevator"). Some are complaining about things outside NCL control ("The weather was terrible, the airline lost my luggage"), some are unrealistic expectations ("The airline lost my luggage and the staff barely lifted a finger to rectify it! The toilet got clogged and it took maintenance 2 hours to fix it!") -- So I look for patterns, I look to see if there are similar complaints popping up frequently. If someone says, "service at Cagney's was so slow, 2 hours and my steak arrived cold" -- Did that person just suffer from a single bad night, or are those complaints popping up frequently? I haven't been on NCL in about 10 years, but going on my 3rd NCL cruise this coming summer, so I've been reading the reviews intently. Here is what I've learned from reading the reviews: -- Expect long lines to get a drink, especially at the pool bars -- Expect "nickel and diming" -- with lots of the activities being either extra charges, or seeking your money.

I understand the marketing ploy. I wonder how often it really helps them get a sale where it’s so blatantly obvious that it’s an empty ploy. I have to think most cruise customers go to the website multiple times before finally booking. Won’t take long to realize “sale always ends tonight.”

They rotate— 50% off, then becomes “second guest free” 50% off 2 people = second person free. it had been 30-40% off last year… slowly increasing. But I don’t think the price has actually gone down, seems they have increased the prices while increasing the supposed discount. I wonder how much it really helps them secure bookings, “wow… what a discount, I better book before it expires tonight!”

Miss the upsell desk... had their phone number, that's how I first experienced the Haven. $2,000 to upgrade from a "minisuite" as they used to be called, to a Haven 2BR for a week.

Thanks for the replies, nice to know Sprite Zero as well.

Traveling on the Norwegian Gem in July... Understand it's Coke products. Is it Diet Coke or Coke Zero Sugar, or both available? Any other diet sodas available?

But as of recently, the website was updated to state, 1 bottle for owners suites and garden villas, under 7 days. 3 bottles for 7 days and longer.

I believe they changed the Garden Villa to 6. I'll find out soon, sailing Garden Villa in July..... Honestly, 6 would be overkill. Though wouldn't mind a 4th... Our adults have varied tastes, could use a Gin, Vodka, Bourbon... If they have it, Rum Chata...

Think it used to be 6 bottles for Garden Villas, but now 3... Hmmm, think I'll need a Vodka, Gin and Bourbon. Anyone have the list? Will they provide Simple Syrup and Bitters? (I need to be able to mix an Old Fashioned). Assume Tonic water isn't an issue for G&T.

Number of bottles? I believe it’s 1 bottle for an Owners suite, 3 bottles for a Garden Villa?

Let's try to understand the basis of the policy: Legal responsibility. An adult over the age of 21 must be legally responsible for each booked cabin. The policy governs the booking of the cabins, not who sleeps in the cabins. If a family of 4 is traveling, and the adults go out dancing while 2 kids remain sleeping in the room, has the family violated NCL policy? I mean... 2 kids are sleeping alone in the room! Or if some single people meet on a cruise and become intimate, they may sleep in each other's cabins.. oh no... did they violate policy by not sleeping in their assigned cabin? Whether the 2 kids are sleeping alone in the room from 9pm-11pm, or whether it be from 10pm-8am, really makes no difference. The point is -- an adult, who is on board, is RESPONSIBLE. So if the kids destroy the room while the parents are out dancing, or the kids destroy the room while the parents are sleeping in another room down the hall, or the kids are making a ruckus disturbing their neighbors, there is a responsible adult that the cruise staff can go to. "Accompanied by an adult in the same stateroom" does not mean that the accompanying adult is present in the stateroom 24/7 with the minor.

my guess — The policy allows it. But it’s automatically blocked in the computer system no override for connecting cabins.

You're really understating the quality of the specialty restaurants. I agree they aren't 5-stars, but Cagney's and Le Bistro are also not Olive Garden. Even La Cucina is a good couple steps better than the Olive Garden. On the other hand, I definitely find the MDR to be Applebee's, Olive Garden type quality.

At various times, Suite guests got all of the promo offers (specialty dining, unlimited bar, etc, while non-Suite guests had to pick one. Not sure how it's currently working. We have done meals in the Haven. Not a white table cloth dinner. But casual meals, absolutely. And the Haven is spacious enough that you're not right up against the pool. An example of the crowding in the larger Haven ships:

Rightly or wrongly, many people do in fact mind things that are entirely within policy. Many people mind kids generally being kids on the pool deck. People mind rowdy drunk adults watching sports at the bar. People mind smokers in the casino, even where it is permitted. Not all rules and regulations are equal, not all violations are equal. Nobody is ever going to get a ticket for driving 56mph on an empty road with a 55mph speed limit. And yes, I've had an NCL sales agent, while booking, tell me, "you need to list 1 adult in each room, but once on the ship, you can use whatever sleeping arrangements you want."

I love the Jewel class Haven. Whether it's worth the upgrade price over a non-Haven suite depends on the price differential. I know it lacks many of the amenities of the larger ships, no Haven restaurant for dinner, no exclusive Haven Bar/Lounge. But it has something very valuable lacking on the larger ships: Exclusivity. On the larger ships, the Haven may indeed be a "ship within a ship." But it can also be a "crowded ship within an even more crowded ship." In the Jewel class, only about 60 people have access to the Haven, so it is almost never crowded. Truly a VIP private space. Full time access to a pool deck right outside your suite, that it almost never crowded, and that is even covered in bad weather. (Had a pretty bad weather cruise one time, too much rain for most guests to swim or hot tube... not a problem for Haven guests). While no dedicated lounge, the Haven itself is a comfortable space to bring a cocktail, have a butler set up a meal. I know a lot of people are disappointed that there is no fulltime upgraded restaurant for Haven guests to have dinner. Egads, you're treated like a regular cruise guest for dinner. But if you can afford the Haven, you can certainly afford the NCL Specialty restaurants. (And on most bookings, suite guests get some included specialty dinners). It's not as if you're relegated to the buffet for dinner.

No, just like every regular guest, either pay ala carte or a specialty dining package.