havoc315

I’m not super confident that the “service charge” 100% goes to the staff as gratuities. Even by definition, “service” can include their base salaries, can include the price of cups and glasses, etc.

Dang... It's not in my list of offers, and my final payment is due next week..

Exactly. Not sure why some people are offended because they don't like how NCL is interpreting their own policy. NCL clearly interprets "accompanying" to mean booked in the same cabin. It's odd that some people are so insistent that "accompanying" means "sleeping." Why should cruise critic posters be offended that NCL isn't using their preferred definition?

You’re missing the point. I’ve been told by multiple NCL representatives that there is no prohibition against getting extra keys and trading sleeping arrangements. “accompanied” does not mean joined at the hip —- nor does it mean sleeping in the same room. Knock on the door, poke your head in for 10 seconds per day … you’ve “accompanied.” Accompany does not mean you have to sleep together. And that’s what I’ve been assured by multiple NCL representatives.

They have to be booked in the same room. As you just said — they don’t have to be joined in the hip. The parents are free to trade off sleeping arrangements. That’s exactly what’s being discussed. Yes, if a parent goes to the spa, they remain legally responsible for the minor who is in the cabin. If they sleep across the hall, they remain responsible for the minor in the cabin. what’s the difference? The number of minutes alone? Where in the NCL policy is there a definition of how many minutes the minor can be in the cabin without their parent? Read again. Travelling with Minors and Young Adults: Norwegian Cruise Line's policy dictates that a minor or young adult under the age of 21 must be accompanied in the same stateroom (or a connecting/adjoining stateroom) by a guest 21 years of age or older at the time of boarding. At the time of boarding, they must be accompanied by an adult who is booked in the same cabin. It does not say that the adult must physically be present in the room with the minor at all times. i was told by guest services on the NCL Dawn a few years ago that there is absolutely no prohibition against getting extra keys and trading off sleeping arrangements, as long as an adult was booked in each cabin. ??? The same way that the adult taking a morning walk is accompanying their child who is sleeping in the cabin. If you’re still accompanying them while taking a walk a few decks away, then why can’t you accompany while sleeping across the hall?

Really…. So the 20 year old has to physically be with their parent at all times? They can’t take a mid-day nap in the room while their parent plays bingo? please show me any NCL policy that says someone under 21 may never be left alone in a room. Technically — the policy is, a minor must be accompanied on the cruise by an adult who is booked in the same stateroom. Not, they must be joined at the hip at all times.

No, it is not against NCL policy. For legal responsibility, an adult must be assigned to each room. But believe it or not — 15 year-olds are in rooms alone, all the time. Does anyone really think a 15 year-old needs a babysitter in the same room 24/7? A parent, sharing a room with a 15-year-old isn’t allowed to go for an early morning walk on the deck while their teenager sleeps in? Parents aren’t allowed to go to the bar for a drink while their kids watch tv in the room? If a 23 year old is sharing a cabin with their 17 year old sibling, the 23-year-old can’t go to the spa while the 17 year-old takes a shower in the cabin? No, there is absolutely no NCL policy requiring a parent to be with their child at all times in the room. But the “adult” is legally responsible for the room at all times. Thus, an adult must be assigned to each room. But family members can hang out in each other’s rooms, change off sleeping arrangements, etc.

Another report about it on the Viva- https://www.cruisehive.com/norwegian-cruise-line-implementing-new-sanitation-process/116932 Not clear if fleetwide.

According to this video: NCL is supposedly strictly enforcing a limit of 1 hour per day on use of private balcony hot tubs. Does anyone know how this is being enforced? Is the hot tub only being filled for an hour? Is there a timer on the power, so it can only run for 1 hour per day? We have a trip coming up, specifically booked a garden villa as my wife looks forward to lounging in her own hot tub intermittently through the day—- definitely for more than an hour most days. (And we are a group of 7 people in the garden villa, so really expected the hot tub to get a couple hours of use per day). So anybody know how the one hour limit is being enforced and whether it really is that strict?

"The current MOA, which set a passenger capacity at 3,800 passengers for May, June, September and October and 3,500 passengers during July and August, was set to expire at the end of the year before the town extended it into 2024 for existing bookings. New reservations will not be accepted under these terms." https://www.mdislander.com/news/politics/current-moa-to-continue-for-bar-harbors-existing-cruise-line-bookings-in-2024/article_17587612-a0f9-11ee-ab73-bbc3769a410b.html The Town Council already accepted the NCL bookings through this Summer. There are already written agreements in place, limiting to 3500 passengers over this Summer. The new policies will take effect on new future reservations. But should not effect the 2024 booking. Now, I saw posts indicating that there is an October NCL cruise that isn't on the Bar Harbor schedule. I have no idea why it isn't on the Bar Harbor schedule -- But that suggests it already wasn't on the schedule, even before the court upheld the new policies. I admit I'm not 100% certain about the ability of the Town Council to void the booking they already accepted. But the Town Council is supposedly meeting this week to discuss implementing the ruling. So we should find out this week if they intend to try to void or re-negotiate the bookings they already accepted for 2024.

It won’t take effect until 2025. I’m on Gem in July. The ruling should have no effect. NCL made the 2024 reservations under the former policies.

Travelled with -- My own travel party, friends, extended family, business associates, etc. People who I knew by name, not "that stranger at the end of the bar." Now, back in my fraternity days (going back 30 years), I knew people who would have 10 drinks in a day, but I've never seen anyone I actually know my name in the last 30 years, drink that much in a day. I'm sure there are people who consume 10 alcoholic beverages per day. It's not the majority. For example, a woman with a healthy body weight would likely be unconscious if she tried to have 10 alcoholic drinks in 1 day... I certainly don't doubt that there are people who have 10 alcoholic drinks per day. But there are far more people who will drink 10 fountain sodas in a day than 10 alcoholic drinks .

Exactly my point. Since soda is so cheap, and since they often aren’t even going to ring up the charge, why wouldn’t they want to capture that $1.59? And I dare say that kids and adults can pound far more sodas than most adults will pound alcohol. While you may get a small percentage of guests pounding 10+ alcoholic drinks per day, that would leave lots of guests in a coma. I’ve never travelled with any adult who would have more than 3-4 alcoholic drinks per day, but I’ve travelled with lots of kids who can down 10-20 fountain sodas in a day.

True. But same logic applies to the soda package for under 21. The adults can get soda with the unlimited package and give it to the non-paying kids.

Interesting, but not for guests 3&4.. though they would give adult guests 3&4 the more expensive alcohol package. I truly do wonder what the logic is.

You're absolutely right. It is there. Though, your quote raises a logical question: If you had 4 adults in the room, NCL would give all 4 adults the "$109" package, as long as they just pay the "service charge." And of course, that "$109 package" includes fountain sodas. So why would they not give guests under 21 the soda package... charging those guests $1.59 per day." I suspect I know the answer, but it's purely speculative (they actually make money on the average guest charging $21.80 per day, but they would lose money on a soda package for $1.59 per day). If the price changed after entering final payment, then that would be CRIMINAL. Wouldn't you agree that there are statements that may be misleading but not criminal? I will totally agree that NCL's behavior does not appear to be criminal. I totally agree that the full price is available to review before processing payment.

Now you get it --- If it was ALWAYS -- That would mean nobody is misleading anybody. But it's "usually" -- Because some mislead in their marketing? And let's not forget that the promotion has been "on" -- for years ongoing now. Secondly, even NCL doesn't call it a gratuity charge. Their fine print calls it a "gratuity and beverage service charge" Beverage service charge... hmm, that could include the glassware, that could include even the alcohol and mixers. Could certainly include employee salaries, not just the "gratuity." Third, I can't actually find this $21.80 anywhere on the NCL website. It's pretty well hidden, and unlikely to be noticed until you're finalizing your booking. First on the main page, it's just "click to learn more" -- The "learn more" doesn't tell you about the $21.80.. but there is another link for "terms and conditions" --- The terms and conditions are really long, scroll and scroll and scroll, you finally find the line about the 20% service charge -- But still doesn't tell you the amount. (Honestly, first time I booked FAS, I assumed the service charge was like $10 per day) Photos attached of the webpage and each click.. which still doesn't tell you the dollar amount: Nope, I respect that you don't feel misled. Yet, you seem to not respect that there are other people who do feel misled. Let's make it simple, do you accept that there are intelligent, reasonable people, who would find the NCL marketing to be misleading?

In the context of retail marketing, “free” is usually understood as “included at no additional charge.” ”buy one get one free”— is understood as you actually get 2 of the items, for the price tag on the single item. Here, it’s “buy one get one free*” *see the 10 page terms and conditions… Buried deeper… it’s really, “buy the cruise and get a drink package for $22 per day” Yes, it is certainly pretty clear that you’d need to buy the cruise to get the drink package. Non-misleading advertising would be, “Get a drink package for just $22 per day” I don’t know why there are some people who feel the need to defend NCL’s honor, as if your spouse is being criticized. You personally don’t feel misled. That’s fine. Why do you feel the need to attack people who do feel it is misleading?

Exactly. For your wallet, it isn’t free… it’s $21,80. Whether that’s really a gratuity, or whether it’s the real cost of the drink package, is irrelevant.

I have no idea what you’re arguing about. You seem to be in total agreement with me that the real maximum capacity of the Encore is greater than 4,000 people. Seems you chose to pick a fight about semantics, though you agree totally with the conclusion.

This is really straying far from the discussion. I never said you claimed ships sail without sufficient lifeboats. You did say, your exact words: "Official capacity is based on lifeboat seats...not cabins, beds, or anything else." Now, let's remember exactly what we were talking about. We were talking about the published capacity of NCL Encore, of 4,000 guests. So if that published capacity was based on lifeboat seats, then how it is that ships are sailing at OVER 100% capacity?!?! Because capacity (the stats published by NCL.. specifically referring to NCL's claim that the Encore capacity is 4,000) is NOT based on lifeboat seats. MAXIMUM capacity may indeed be based on lifeboat seats. But we weren't talking about "maximum" capacity. We were very very explicitly talking about the published capacity of the Encore at 4,000. We were specifically talking about the Encore, and I said that 4000 passengers is based on double occupancy, 2 per cabin, however you want to phrase the same thing. (there are indeed some solo cabins that count as single occupancy if we are being exact): "2,043 staterooms and capacity for 4,004 passengers at double occupancy.[9]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_Encore#:~:text=Norwegian Encore has 20 decks,4%2C004 passengers at double occupancy. So are you saying that the NCL Encore only has enough lifeboats for 4,004 people?

Not debating whether it’s a great deal or not. Simply that, like a lot of marketing, it can be misleading to some people.

It’s a lot less, if it’s $21.80…. It’s a lot more if it’s $109 with a $21.80 gratuity. Either way, it’s not “free.” And it’s not known whether the $21.80 is actually a gratuity, or it’s just the “real” price for the “free” package.

no. Unless you’re claiming ships are sailing without enough life boats. Most ships are sailing at over 100% capacity. https://www.royalcaribbeanblog.com/2023/05/30/cruise-ship-occupancy-rates-are-over-100-percent#:~:text=Each cabin has a capacity,of that cabin exceeds 100%. When did I claim I was ever misled? I said the marketing is misleading, and that I know people who were confused by the marketing.

It’s priced at $109 per day, off which the 20% gratuity is charged. The “free” is waiving the $109 per day. But Holland America is just $60 per day. And unlike the NCL package, it includes bottled water, specialty coffees, etc. So are Holland America bartenders earning 50% of the tips of NCL bartenders? Oceana is $30, including gratuities — and includes bottled waters, specialty coffee, etc. Princess is $85… and includes canned soda, milkshakes, specialty coffees, etc. Thus, NCL is charging the highest “gratuity”