havoc315

Correct… they are making far more than they could at home. They are still making peanuts while working their butts off, so that guests can spend their purely discretionary income on a vacation. It’s really something to think, “why should I tip you?!? You’re already earning 1/10 of a McDonalds cashier which is far better than most people in your country!”

They sign contracts because the income WITH TIPS is far better than they can make at home. Those tips are a major consideration in signing those contracts. That and desperation. And if you think you working at a summer camp decades ago is really the least bit comparable…

Now moving up to the H2 suite would be a different story. Massive private balcony with private hot tub... As to merely moving up to get Haven privileges on the Jewel class -- I actually like the Jewel class Haven, nice to have an "all weather" pool area. But I agree it's not worth paying a whole lot more than a non-Haven suite.

Yes.... "I'm a major alcoholic whose liver will be failing any day now" -- Is a very weird brag.

Makes sense. That's 16 shots. Male at 240 lbs, according to the BAC calculator -- 16 shots in 8 hours would give you a BAC of 0.14% -- That's well intoxicated, but not deadly. For most people, that's impaired judgment, poor balance (but can walk), etc. To show you how much weight and gender affect it -- If a female weighing 120 pounds drank that much, her BAC would be 0.4687% -- Very very unlikely that she would be alive. That's totally toxic. But you do that every single day? Beyond the fact that you are a major alcoholic if you do that every day, and I'd encourage you to seek help, how do you do that on port days? Do you bring a flask with you? Or you skip the ports? And more critically, do you acknowledge, if you are doing that every single day of the cruise, sea days and port days, you are well above the average?

so how you hitting it on port days? Not whether you can drink 10-15 shots on a couple sea days, can you do it EVERY day. And does that reflect anything close average guest? I will tell you, that 15 shots in a 6 hour window would lead to a deadly toxicity in many people. BAC over 0.3% is likely to result in death or coma. Over 0.4%, death is very likely. A male weighing 180 pounds, does 15 shots of 90 proof, over a 6 hour period — BAC would be 0.262%, just slightly below coma level. With a body weight of 150 lbs— BAC would be 0.33%, likely in a coma. Female… weighing 120 pounds.. does 12 shots in 6 hours — BAC is 0.4%— she is probably dead. Even if she spread 12 drinks over 12 hours, her BAC would be in coma territory. So if 10-15 drinks every single day was anywhere close to the average, you’d have hundreds of people dropping dead on every cruise.

Zero deception. Again, nothing about sneaking behind the bartender's back. The question was not, "how can I do it without the bartender noticing?" The question was not, "if I sneak the drink back to the room, will I get caught?" The question was not, "can I give my card to my friend so they can pretend they are me and get drinks?" They are asking, will the bartender enforce the rule, or will the bartender in their discretion allow the sharing? Would you prefer if they phrased it, "i know that NCL's policy is that packages are not to be shared, but what i really want to know is if that rule is will the bartender exercise discretion to allow an occasional drink shared with a friend? in other words, could the two guests with FAS be in some trouble if we get a mocktail or glass of wine for that third guest? And my answer remains, it is up to the bartender.

No, the OP did not indicate any deception. Their exact words: "If the three of us are sitting together at any bar will the ones with FAS be able to order a second drink to hand it over to that third guest?" SITTING at the bar. In plain view of the bartender. Order 2 drinks, and hands 1 of them to the friend. In full view of the bartender. No deception. Entirely up to the discretion of the bartender, who can say, "oh.. you have to keep both drinks to yourself." Entirely the discretion of the bartender, no deception whatsoever.

1. NCL will charge the maximum they can, regardless. 2. Once again, it is NCL’s discretion… and they give their bartenders the discretion.

So you really believe that guests are averaging $109 worth of beverages every day? In a weeklong cruise, you really think the average guest is having 65 to 75 drinks?

1. It’s not a widespread issue. As you suggest, typically everyone in the cabin will have the package. 2. if it was a widespread issue, NCL could easily clamp down by not letting people take 2 drinks at a time, by instructing bartenders to swipe every card. 3. NCL truly doesn’t care if someone occasionally shares a beverage. If they cared, they could easily prevent it, as above. Just like cops aren’t going to typically give you a ticket for driving 56 in a 55mph. NCL certainly doesn’t want 1 person getting the package, and then collecting 20 drinks for their friends. Just as the cop will ticket you for going 20 miles over the speed limit. 4. the “price” of the drink package is a fiction. Can look at it as if it’s built into the cruise fare, and then NCL lies and says they are giving it away for free. Regardless, the price is a fiction number. 5. last hypothetical. A single guy meets a woman at the NCL bar, they start flirting. He asks her what she is drinking, she says red wine. Doesn’t ask her if she is on the drink package. Walks up to the bartender, “2 glasses of red wine please.” Bartender swipes the card, pours 2 glasses of wine. Anybody really think the guests stole the glass of wine?!? There is some common sense here. It’s ultimately the discretion of NCL. I will not endorse lying to the bartender, or sneaking around secretly. But 2 people ask NCL for 2 drinks, NCL chooses to swipe just 1 card, the 2 people openly consume the 2 drinks. It’s up to NCL, whether they want to check the cards, or whether NCL wants to say, “don’t really care if you’re going 56 in a 55.”

Of course it’s baked in. It’s why they generally require everyone be on the package in the same cabin — to prevent it from being a huge widespread abuse. But another way to look at it — if we are being sticklers for wording— The drink package is “free.” Pretty hard to steal something that is being given away for free!! They just ask that you pay the gratuity. So if OP went and took the “extra” drink, and left the bartender a cash gratuity— then, if we take everything at face value— then everyone got what they’re entitled to. Unless of course, we acknowledge that NCL is committing fraud by calling the drink package “free” and “gratuity only.”

We are reading the same thing very differently. I see no fraudulent behavior. Sitting together at the bar, in plain sight of the bartender, handing the drink to the friend. Not secretly handing off the drink in a secret hiding place. Not lying to the bartender and telling them falsely that your friend is on the plan. Thus, full discretion of the NCL bartender, whether to ask who the second drink is for, full discretion to say, “excuse me… I’ll need your friends card.”

And that’s exactly what the OP is talking about!!! Not handing her card to a friend and telling her friend to pretend to be her. As I have been saying repeatedly, it is NCL’s discretion of how and when to enforce their policy. It is not theft for the bartender to pour a Shirley temple for the friend.

Sorry, I combined you with other prior posters. You simply asked for source. Above your post, was the suggestion butlers are well paid and therefore only need be tipped for exceptional service.

The prior poster suggested that the butlers have a very high base salary that it not dependent on tips, (and thry therefore see no reason to tip) and asked me to provide a source that the base salary is actually low.

please show me any criminal law in any jurisdiction which makes it a crime to share something you purchased, just because the seller contractually tried to forbid the sharing. Actually, they paid for a drink. Consumption is irrelevant. If they go up to the bartender, order the drink. Then decide they aren’t thirsty, and just throw it in the garbage… They haven’t stolen the drink. In fact — if actually on dry land, there are laws that would invalidate any attempt to prohibit sharing. Such provisions are often unenforceable as a matter of law. No, reasonable minds don’t disagree. Criminal law is criminal law. If I walk up to the bartender, paying for my drink, and I say to the bartender, “oh, my friend isn’t of package, can I get her a Shirley Temple on my card?” And the bartender nods and pours the drink, that is not theft. Period. Yes, it may be a violation of policy. NCL can choose to kick you off the ship (well… actually… probably not, as it wouldn’t be a material breach of contract, but that’s a whole different discussion). What NCL can’t do: they cannot press criminal charges in any Western country. Because it’s not theft.

So Glassdoor says base pay, without tips, of $3327 per month. They don’t get any days off, work 12-16 hours per day. (Can say they work 24 hours per day since they don’t get to go home with their family at the end of the day). so that’s about $110 per day. If you do a 12 hour day, that’s $9 per hour. At a 16 hour day, that’s $6.87 per hour. If you did consider it 24 hours, it’s $4.58 per hour. would you leave your family for 3 months at a time, to sleep in a small closet, work long hours, get no days off, or $4-$9 per hour?

It’s sharing something you paid for. They can have policies against sharing. And if you break their policy, you have broken the contract you agreed to, in sailing the ship. But breach of a contract is a civil offense, it is not criminal, it is not stealing. As I said — the number is indeed irrelevant. It’s not stealing, under any number. But NCL would likely consider a larger number to be a breach of the contract, while they would consider me letting my daughter have a sip of my soda to be discretionary.

As a lawyer, who has worked on criminal prosecutions — I can say with absolute certainty, it is NOT stealing. It may or may not be a violation of NCL policy, depending on how the NCL employee uses their discretion. Just as the waiter in a speciality restaurant did not “steal” when they gave me an extra dessert. Sharing something that you purchased is pretty rarely ever stealing. May indeed be a violation of a policy, but it is not stealing. Now, there is a huge difference between using your package to get 10 cocktails per day for other people not on the package… and grabbing 2-3 extra mocktails for a friend over the course of a week. Neither would technically be theft, but the former is clearly an abuse of their system.

Room and board? So do prisoners in a jail. They aren’t getting a balcony cabin. They are getting a crowded bunk in a tiny space shared with other crew members. So that they can “be at work” 24/7, for several months at a time, away from their families. Would you consider it a positive part of your compensation if you were taken away from your family for 3 months, and given a small closet to sleep in for that time… While you work for sub-minimum wage, 7 days per week? No, the salaries are not very good, for a 24/7 job. They typically come out to a non-tip salary of well under $10 per hour.

Every breakfast buffet I’ve ever been to, I’ve been able to take out a piece of fruit, a cookie, an individual serving box of cereal. But how’s this… at a breakfast, my wife gets the buffet, I get the pancakes ala carte. I eat 1 of her slices of bacon that she got from the buffet. She ate a bite of my pancakes. Did we steal?!?? It has nothing to do with morality. Or, are you a deeply immoral person if you’ve driven 56 in a 55 zone? Not every policy, especially set by a private company, is a moral code. If your employer has a policy that you arrive by 9:00am.. and you arrive at 9:05am… you might indeed get fired. But you haven’t committed an immoral act.

Now you’re just creating your own rules. Surely, if my friends in another cabin asked me to carry their wine for them, because they didn’t get FAS and I did… surely that would violate the rules. But they just gifted me their wine, and I’m just sharing it with them on board! Now real world — there is discretion and there is abuse of discretion. Ultimately up to the cruise line to decide how and when to enforce their rules.

No. It’s more like you paid for the buffet. You went, you ate the salad, soup, entree. You decided to take a slice of cake to go. When you got home, you shared the cake with your spouse. Is that stealing?!?! Or maybe I grabbed an apple on my way out of the buffet. Left it on my counter at home and my kid ate it the next day, did my kid steal it?! It’s common sense flexibility. According to NCL rules, speciality meals include a 1 soup, 1 appetizer, 1 entree and 1 dessert. I mentioned to my server I couldn’t decide between 2 desserts — the server brought me both. Did the server and I conspire to steal from NCL? Should I alert BCL that their server stole? Should I apologetically send a check to NCL for the 2nd dessert that broke the rules? Or just maybe… NCL recognizes that the rules are designed to prevent abuse. Not written in stone with no discretion.

It isn’t stealing, it’s an absurd analogy. if we are really going to stick to every word as sacred… then you’ve paid for about 10-15 drinks per day with the alcohol package. I’d say a very very tiny percentage of guests are getting 10-15 drinks every single day of the cruise. But that’s what you’ve paid for. As OP even suggested — consistent with the rules, someone could go get 2 drinks at a time, bring them back to the room, and pour them down the toilet. Completely within NCL rules, I could flush 20 cocktails down the toilet per day, and that would not be stealing. But if I give a sip of my mocktail to a friend, then it becomes stealing? No, it’s a violation of their policy, but it’s not theft. And I’m sure if I asked the NCL CEO, they’d shrug and wouldn’t care about sharing a couple cocktails. I’d say driving 56 in a 55 zone is a far more serious crime.