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  1. As this is the MSC forum, here's some numbers to think about. Europe's epidemic could end as late as August! "This chart shows which European countries are expected to have the highest coronavirus death tolls" https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/09/uk-will-have-the-most-coronavirus-deaths-in-europe-analysts-predict.html
  2. Moz, My best advise to you is to stay home until they have a vaccine. You're not in the best shape if things go south.
  3. 50 Quantas crew infected... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/06/returning-qantas-crew-members-tested-positive-for-coronavirus-but-were-exempt-from-quarantine
  4. Oh Dear, this is definitely going off topic. Could I persuade you to discuss philosophical issues at the destination forums? Kinda cultural meeting-of-the-minds. For myself, I prefer to arrive at conclusions based on facts. The bottom line... where is it safe to travel and when?
  5. This is what the Guardian (March 13) said ... "The data obtained by the Post, which the Guardian has not been able to verify, said a 55-year-old from Hubei province could have been the first person to contract Covid-19..." The SCMP article did not say that China suppressed the info. The Straits Times article (Feb 28) did not mention this. The Caixin report did not mention this, and they quoted medical sources in China. The WHO does not confirm this. Genetic analysis does suggest that not all of the early cases fit into a neat pattern. So, it is possible that there were cases in November. However, no one else has suggested that China (who specifically in the Chinese government?) knew and suppressed the information. In any case, it's a great leap forward to suggest that China is responsible for the disaster in Europe and USA. The governments had plenty of notice, Much more than the Chinese. Some governments were ready. Others were not. Some responded decisively like the Chinese and Koreans. Others did not. Some politicians fought their science advisers. Others did not. Please be careful when you are accusing others of heinous crimes. Personally, I have no qualms about visiting China, if I had any interest in visiting mega-cities.
  6. I see no evidence to support your claim ... "They knew about it back in November, and by the end of December ordered all research into it destroyed about a week before they went public. " The Straits Times article quoted ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caixin What the ST actually said was ... "Two days later on Jan 3, the National Health Commission issued its gag order and said the Wuhan pneumonia samples needed to be treated as highly pathogenic microorganisms - and that any samples needed to be moved to approved testing facilities or destroyed. One virologist told Caixin that even the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) under the Chinese Academy of Sciences was not qualified for the tests and told to destroy samples in its lab." In fact, the article goes into some detail about the history in December. Pretty in line with what's outlined in the wikipedia summary. The additional information is about the role of private genome testing companies. On December 27, just 4 days before Wuhan CDC informed WHO ... "In an unusual move, the company did not send back results, but instead called the doctor on Dec 27. "They just called us and said it was a new coronavirus," Dr Zhao said."
  7. Is there any evidence to back your amazing claims? Fact is that after Wuhan CDC informed WHO on December 31st. There have been WHO observers in China. WHO and China produced a joint paper in mid-February... https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/who-china-joint-mission-on-covid-19-final-report.pdf In fact, Chinese researchers have published many findings. On January 12, Chinese institutions and University of Sydney published the first genome studies. http://virological.org/t/novel-2019-coronavirus-genome/319 Researchers worldwide have been in consultation with their Chinese colleagues and medical specialists https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019%E2%80%9320_coronavirus_pandemic#History I'll go with the official version. Local authorities were forced to acknowledge the disease in late December. Failed to contain the disease. Beijing stepped in and imposed a quarantine on Wuhan by January 23th. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019%E2%80%9320_coronavirus_pandemic_in_mainland_China There's uncertainty about when Beijing knew about the problem. But, Beijing acted decisively and the epidemic is over. They've done their jobs. Western scientists knew about the threat in January and they must have alerted their governments. For example, USA imposed travel restrictions on China on February 3rd. https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/coronavirus-us-travel-restrictions-monday/index.html Those leaders must be held responsible for failing to contain the disease in February and March. They have yet to do their jobs. In fact, the world has been treated to the farce of politicians publicly contradicting their medical advisers. The results are plain to see for those who have clear vision. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_response_to_the_2019%E2%80%9320_coronavirus_pandemic
  8. There's an attempt by a couple of posters to blame everything on NSW Health. The fact that NSW is willing to have a criminal investigation suggests that they are confident that they will be cleared.
  9. The way I read the NSW Health statement is this... That there were 104 respiratory cases but only 36 presented themselves to the medical center. So, the 36 were just less than 1% of the pax and crew on board. Anyway, a public inquiry is needed in order to clarify various issues. To learn lessons. Hard to believe that a third of the Aussie pax could be infected and the ship's officers didn't know about it. A couple of passengers headed straight to ER upon embarkation. Anyway, a quarter of the crew could be infected. Clearly something was wrong in terms of protocol and leadership. Many lives will be lost.
  10. Of course, same ship and company. Different countries, but same problem.
  11. Exactly, this ties in with the NSW investigation. Cruise companies have to be brought to account if they acted in negligent way.
  12. Commissioner Fuller expressed himself more forcefully here... https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/world/413507/nsw-police-homicide-squad-launches-investigation-into-ruby-princess-covid-19-deaths
  13. This is the relevant section with regards to NSW Health... "... Under the Commonwealth Department of Health cruise protocols, an ILI outbreak is defined when ‘more than one per cent of the ships total passengers and crew have an influenza like illness’. The Ruby Princess had 2647 passengers and 1148 crew. The ship reported to NSW Health there were 104 acute respiratory infections of which 36 people had presented to the ship’s clinic with influenza like illness during the cruise and its numbers fell short of the definition of an ‘outbreak’. The Commonwealth Department of Health protocol on managing novel coronavirus disease (COVID-19 risk from cruise ship) states “provided there are no concerns about the COVID-19 risk profile of the ship or suspected COVID-19 cases reported …the ship may be allowed to continue voyage while samples are tested”." https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/news/Pages/20200403_01.aspx The focus of the criminal investigation is on the last part. NSW Police queried the 'operations managers' at Princess. They received assurances that there were no COVID19 on board. So, let's wait for the outcome of the homicide investigation.
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