RCCL cruises through PANAMA CANAL 2016/2017?

Does anyone have any word on Royal's plans for cruises through the panama canal in 2016 and 2017? We would like to book a cruise to that destination, leaving either from Florida or San Juan, preferably in April of 2016 or 2017.:confused:

Very frustrated! Only want RCCL

Does anyone have any word on Royal's plans for cruises through the panama canal in 2016 and 2017? We would like to book a cruise to that destination, leaving either from Florida or San Juan, preferably in April of 2016 or 2017.:confused:

Very frustrated! Only want RCCL

No PC cruises planned for that time frame. If they were available through April of 2017 they would on the RCI website.

So rccl"s website does not have anything going there in 2016 or 2017, but does anyone KNOW WHY????????

So rccl"s website does not have anything going there in 2016 or 2017, but does anyone KNOW WHY????????

Most likely because they feel they can make more money on other itineraries, and they don't need to transit the canal for repositioning.

So rccl"s website does not have anything going there in 2016 or 2017, but does anyone KNOW WHY????????

I have no idea why, but I would also like a 2017 Panama Canal cruise. We took one in 2000 with HAL and really enjoyed it. Now we would like to do one again with different ports and we were hoping RCCL had such a cruise.

So rccl"s website does not have anything going there in 2016 or 2017, but does anyone KNOW WHY????????

I have no idea why, but I would also like a 2017 Panama Canal cruise.

Jewel was a lock (no pun intended :p) to do the Canal/Coastal/Alaska itineraries 2016/17 until all of a sudden it seemed she started showing up on a whole bunch of Europe port schedules, and a few weeks after that was confirmed she would head over to Europe instead of Alaska. A few weeks after that Explorer was confirmed to be coming over from Australia for the Alaska runs rather than sending a ship through the Canal.

I was waiting for Jewel Panama Canal to be announced as I wanted to book on the first day of it's release. Damnit! The Canal was next on my bucket list. Unfortunately I feel that will not happen until either Radiance or Explorer get re-positioned away from their current Australia/Alaska seasonal itineraries. :(

Is it possible that royal maybe waiting on the "new locks" to open so they can deploy the larger ships?

Is it possible that royal maybe waiting on the "new locks" to open so they can deploy the larger ships?

We did a b2b on Legend this past April and got to see the progress of the construction of the new locks. I will be very surprised if they are completed anytime during 2017.

We did a b2b on Legend this past April and got to see the progress of the construction of the new locks. I will be very surprised if they are completed anytime during 2017.

I agree, I've read they are way behind schedule.

I too have a Panama cruise on my bucket list. The last time I was in Panama I was dodging bullets in the Army. I want to see how things have changed there since service there so long ago.

I would love to do it on a RCCL ship. But if the time comes and they don't offer it I will jump to another cruise line. We had some friends a few years ago that got a great deal on Disney. I'd be very tempted to spend a little more to spend 14 days on one of their ships again.

JoeRum

I too have a Panama cruise on my bucket list. The last time I was in Panama I was dodging bullets in the Army. I want to see how things have changed there since service there so long ago.

 

I would love to do it on a RCCL ship. But if the time comes and they don't offer it I will jump to another cruise line. We had some friends a few years ago that got a great deal on Disney. I'd be very tempted to spend a little more to spend 14 days on one of their ships again.

 

JoeRum

Celebrity offers some great PC sailings.

Is it possible that royal maybe waiting on the "new locks" to open so they can deploy the larger ships?

Nope, there's questions whether even Voyager Class can even fit under the Bridge of Americas.

We did a b2b on Legend this past April and got to see the progress of the construction of the new locks. I will be very surprised if they are completed anytime during 2017.

I was there in Nov 2013 sailing on Vision and I mentioned on several posts how incredibly behind they seemed to be. I figured they'd be lucky if they'd be finished in 5 years let alone there supposed initial 2014 completion.

I was fortunate enough to have dinner with Capt Srecko on that cruise and sat across the table from the head administrator of the new Canal construction. At the time he explained how the Italian company delivering the actual locks was bankrupt and they were looking for a new one (there were only four of the locks physically at the site... supposed to be 20, and they are massive!). He also mentioned the difficulties of contracting out the tech help needed, for example the incredible job of electronics and installation of equipment. I asked him point blank about the completion date... he sighed and said maybe Dec 2015 if things go well... I'm guessing "things" not going well. :D

Nope, there's questions whether even Voyager Class can even fit under the Bridge of Americas.

 

 

 

 

yup. that makes perfect sense.

We did a b2b on Legend this past April and got to see the progress of the construction of the new locks. I will be very surprised if they are completed anytime during 2017.

After completely missing the original planned opening of Aug 2014, they eventually settled on April 1 2016 as the open for business date. Don't believe they celebrate April Fools, so perhaps it is a realistic estimate. They expect to be actually using the new Atlantic Locks later this year with real live ships. Granted, a great deal of the use will be for testing and training in order to develop procedures for the new locks with a chartered post-Panamax ship. I don't think it will be out of the realm of possibility that a present Panamax ship might make an occasional transit during this time

Nope, there's questions whether even Voyager Class can even fit under the Bridge of Americas.

 

 

 

 

I was there in Nov 2013 sailing on Vision and I mentioned on several posts how incredibly behind they seemed to be. I figured they'd be lucky if they'd be finished in 5 years let alone there supposed initial 2014 completion.

 

I was fortunate enough to have dinner with Capt Srecko on that cruise and sat across the table from the head administrator of the new Canal construction. At the time he explained how the Italian company delivering the actual locks was bankrupt and they were looking for a new one (there were only four of the locks physically at the site... supposed to be 20, and they are massive!). He also mentioned the difficulties of contracting out the tech help needed, for example the incredible job of electronics and installation of equipment. I asked him point blank about the completion date... he sighed and said maybe Dec 2015 if things go well... I'm guessing "things" not going well. :D

Hoopster, The Italian company building the gates (Cimolai) has delivered all the gates to Panama. All 16 gates have been delivered and installed at each of the two locks and operational testing is underway at this time. These gates are massive as you point out coming in at around 3100 tons. By comparison the old miter gates on the present locks tip the scale at 450 tons for the smaller gates and 700 tons for the largest of the gates. An advantage with the old miter gates is they could be operated (for testing) in the dry. However the new rolling gates require some buoyancy for them to be operated and can not be operated in the dry. In order for the gates to be tested it was necessary to flood the new locks which was accomplished a few weeks ago. At both new locks the gates they are presently testing are the ones at the sea entrance.

Although no one with the Canal Authority will publicly admit to it, they are pulling out the stops to beat the April 1 2016 opening date. All phases of the project are at 90% completed or above, but of course it ain't over til the gravitationally challenged person sings!

As for the Bridge of Americas... it will be replaced... just don't know how soon. Plans call for a higher bridge to be constructed between the BoA and Miraflores Locks. In the mean time IF (that's a big if;)) Royal really wants to get a Voyager/Freedom through the Canal... they can work it out. __________________

At both new locks the gates they are presently testing are the ones at the sea entrance.

Well I'll be damned!... June 11, 2015

http://panampost.com/thabata-molina/2015/06/12/panama-canal-expansion-surges-forward-into-new-locks/

Great explanation Bill, thank you for this update and correction of my "facts" :)

Although no one with the Canal Authority will publicly admit to it, they are pulling out the stops to beat the April 1 2016 opening date.

I still won't believe it until I actually see it ;)

I tell you what, from what I personally saw in Nov 2013 to now if they get the new Canal open by end of 2015 I will be utterly amazed as a jo-blow non-engineer bystander. This would have to be the most amazing engineering feat of all time in only 2 years imho. Look how long the big dig in Boston took for example.

As for the Bridge of Americas... it will be replaced... just don't know how soon. Plans call for a higher bridge to be constructed between the BoA and Miraflores Locks. In the mean time IF (that's a big if;)) Royal really wants to get a Voyager/Freedom through the Canal... they can work it out.

It will??? Please explain what you know. Re getting Voyager through now, I think you're right... and another very intelligent poster once commented on my thoughts on another Canal thread saying that carefully timing tides the Canal authority could likely get one of the ships through on an "exception". Capt Anderson (then on NOS) also told me NOS could get it under. Lots of speculation without black&white knowledge on this subject.

Again thx for this update... super informative :D

After completely missing the original planned opening of Aug 2014, they eventually settled on April 1 2016 as the open for business date. Don't believe they celebrate April Fools, so perhaps it is a realistic estimate. They expect to be actually using the new Atlantic Locks later this year with real live ships. Granted, a great deal of the use will be for testing and training in order to develop procedures for the new locks with a chartered post-Panamax ship. I don't think it will be out of the realm of possibility that a present Panamax ship might make an occasional transit during this time

 

Hoopster, The Italian company building the gates (Cimolai) has delivered all the gates to Panama. All 16 gates have been delivered and installed at each of the two locks and operational testing is underway at this time. These gates are massive as you point out coming in at around 3100 tons. By comparison the old miter gates on the present locks tip the scale at 450 tons for the smaller gates and 700 tons for the largest of the gates. An advantage with the old miter gates is they could be operated (for testing) in the dry. However the new rolling gates require some buoyancy for them to be operated and can not be operated in the dry. In order for the gates to be tested it was necessary to flood the new locks which was accomplished a few weeks ago. At both new locks the gates they are presently testing are the ones at the sea entrance.

 

Although no one with the Canal Authority will publicly admit to it, they are pulling out the stops to beat the April 1 2016 opening date. All phases of the project are at 90% completed or above, but of course it ain't over til the gravitationally challenged person sings!

 

As for the Bridge of Americas... it will be replaced... just don't know how soon. Plans call for a higher bridge to be constructed between the BoA and Miraflores Locks. In the mean time IF (that's a big if;)) Royal really wants to get a Voyager/Freedom through the Canal... they can work it out. __________________

Well, after seeing for our selves what has been completed and what needs to be complete this past April (and we did both north and southbound transits), I would have to say that April of 2016 is a long shot.

Well I'll be damned!... June 11, 2015

http://panampost.com/thabata-molina/2015/06/12/panama-canal-expansion-surges-forward-into-new-locks/

Great explanation Bill, thank you for this update and correction of my "facts" :)

 

 

 

I still won't believe it until I actually see it ;)

I tell you what, from what I personally saw in Nov 2013 to now if they get the new Canal open by end of 2015 I will be utterly amazed as a jo-blow non-engineer bystander. This would have to be the most amazing engineering feat of all time in only 2 years imho. Look how long the big dig in Boston took for example.

 

 

 

It will??? Please explain what you know. Re getting Voyager through now, I think you're right... and another very intelligent poster once commented on my thoughts on another Canal thread saying that carefully timing tides the Canal authority could likely get one of the ships through on an "exception". Capt Anderson (then on NOS) also told me NOS could get it under. Lots of speculation without black&white knowledge on this subject.

 

Again thx for this update... super informative :D

I do share some skepticism that something could rear its head and derail the date. I feel that the items that are the most likely to impact the opening are the things that are not easily controlled, by that I mean labor problems. Even though right now there doesn't seem to be any huge issues looming, you just never know when something gets triggered. The other elephant in the room is good old money. The Canal Authority has taken their dispute with the main contractor, GUPC to arbitration about cost overruns. There was a lot of talk that the contractor low balled the bid and figured they could renegotiate on down the road. That has not turned out to be as easy as they had hoped. GUPC is a consortium of a Spanish, Italian, Belgian and Panamanian companies. The good news however is that the real nuts and bolts (gates and valves) of the locks has been delivered and already installed and being tested.

As far as the BoA repalcement... I don't think they have pick a design company or even got to the contract stage for the new bridge of the Pacific side, but they have all the preliminarily studies and such. I don't think there will be any movement on replacing the BoA until the new bridge is finished on the Atlantic side which is under construction presently. The last I read the Atlantic bridge is to be completed late 2016 and have a clearance of 246'. I won't make any wagers on that completion date holding firm... honestly I have not heard much about the goings on that bridge.

Here a shot from today's Atlantic Locks web cam. Actually the new locks have a name... guess it would be proper to use it... Agua Clara Locks, the Pacific side is Cocoli. There is lot to be done for sure... I look around in my stuff and see if I can find a construction photo from the original locks about a year away from completion. I am just betting the place probably will look like it will take the ensuing 100 years to get it running:D!

Hoopster, The picture below is from March 2013... looks like an OSHA inspector would have a life times employment! In September of 1913 the first vessel to pass through Gatun Locks was the tug Gatun, just look at what was accomplished in those 6 months. What looks to be mission impossible can come together quickly. Guess we will just have to wait and see.

Picture: Looking South from the North approach wall of Gatun Locks (sea entrance of Gatun Locks).

I meant to include this earlier, but life called (other than Cruise Critic) and I just pushed send and did not include it. I speak with some professional knowledge of the Canal, I spent a number of years working for the Canal in my other life, so it is sort of understandably a favorite subject of mine... cruises and the Panama Canal, sort of Nirvana... well at least to me:). I dealt daily with how long, how wide and how deep... granted the how high part was never part of my domain, but it was something that we were aware of. The bottom line, when the ship got to me, the how high part had long been taken care of. Actually there were very few instances when the air draft ever was a consideration. Outside of the occasional drill rig or perhaps when the Canal bought Herman the German from Long Beach and shipped her to the Canal, the clearance below the BoA was rarely threatened. Another story in itself is the Canal's association with German cranes. Herman the German (now named Titan), replaced a WW1 era German crane named the Hercules.

In order to keep this thread on topic, much to my chagrin I am looking at other cruise lines to get my Canal fix. Adam and Richard please take note!

If more than just me and my better half keep asking RCCl for Panama Canal cruises in 2016 / 2017 then they MAY feel the pressure?

Really would appreciate help with this campaign, as I feel like the only one who keeps asking them for this itinerary. Other cruise lines have cruises through canal then. Don't care if we go through "new canal' or old one!:(

Picture: Looking South from the North approach wall of Gatun Locks (sea entrance of Gatun Locks).

Awesome photos! Thank you Bill.

So in your past-life professional opinion, and with the current on-line info about draft, height above water line to funnels, etc of both Voyager & Freedom, do you believe those two ships can get under the BoA currently as is?

We also want to go through the Panama Canal on a Royal Caribbean ship. However, we have a 3-year window, so it's starting to look like we'll be sailing on Celebrity, HAL, or Princess. I've heard they're all good. We're loyal to Royal, but if there's no ship, we have to look elsewhere.

Awesome photos! Thank you Bill.

 

So in your past-life professional opinion, and with the current on-line info about draft, height above water line to funnels, etc of both Voyager & Freedom, do you believe those two ships can get under the BoA currently as is?

I really don't think the figures are that far apart, the Canal has always been lenient in making exceptions for a couple of transits before a more permanent work around be found. I found on line in two different places that the air draft for Voyager/Freedom class was 208'... assuming that is the actual air draft, here's my take.

The actual clearance of the Bridge is 201' at Mean High Water Springs (MHWS), MHWS is calculated to be right around +17.7' and where the 201' is the controlling height. Of course when there are Spring tides of this height the Mean Low Water Springs (MLWS) are right at -2.0', which will provide almost a 19' swing in the amount of clearance available. Actually there are times if you are not considering "mean" heights of water the largest difference is closer to 21' with the actual highest and lowest tides. Those of course may only happen once or twice a year and would not be very convenient to try and plan a transit around.

If we don't count the neap or spring tides at any given time, there are a reasonable number of days in a month where the tide has around a 14' swing with +14 being the high and 0 being the low with 2 high tides and 2 low tides in a 24 hour period. On a tide of that size (14') they should reach a clearance under the Bridge of 213' around 8 hours after high tide with the water dropping for another 4 hours before slack water. That would provide them with almost an 8 hour window where the clearance below the Bridge would be 213' or greater. I used the 213' figure because that is what the clearance is for the Great Belt Bridge which all the Voyager and Freedom ships had to negotiate coming from Finland. I honestly don't know what clearance the Canal would ultimately allow. Looking at the Sunshine Skyway, the permitted air draft is 175' and the actual clearance is 181'. So I am guessing that a 5' or 6' clearance would be something that is practical.

I would love to be aboard one of those ships easing under the BoA, but with all the attention Royal is giving to the Far East, the Canal doesn't seem to be a big blip on the radar screen:(.

Back in the '70's, I took a drill ship through the canal. I don't recall our air draft, but we were told we would have a 6' clearance. That was with folding down an A-frame on top of the derrick, passing the bridge at low tide, using the Chief Pilot of the canal, and with some serious "squat", and this was considered to be a very special dispensation, so I think 6' would be the absolute minimum, with an 8-10' clearance for "special transits".

I really don't think the figures are that far apart, the Canal has always been lenient in making exceptions for a couple of transits before a more permanent work around be found. I found on line in two different places that the air draft for Voyager/Freedom class was 208'... assuming that is the actual air draft, here's my take.

 

The actual clearance of the Bridge is 201' at Mean High Water Springs (MHWS), MHWS is calculated to be right around +17.7' and where the 201' is the controlling height. Of course when there are Spring tides of this height the Mean Low Water Springs (MLWS) are right at -2.0', which will provide almost a 19' swing in the amount of clearance available. Actually there are times if you are not considering "mean" heights of water the largest difference is closer to 21' with the actual highest and lowest tides. Those of course may only happen once or twice a year and would not be very convenient to try and plan a transit around.

 

If we don't count the neap or spring tides at any given time, there are a reasonable number of days in a month where the tide has around a 14' swing with +14 being the high and 0 being the low with 2 high tides and 2 low tides in a 24 hour period. On a tide of that size (14') they should reach a clearance under the Bridge of 213' around 8 hours after high tide with the water dropping for another 4 hours before slack water. That would provide them with almost an 8 hour window where the clearance below the Bridge would be 213' or greater. I used the 213' figure because that is what the clearance is for the Great Belt Bridge which all the Voyager and Freedom ships had to negotiate coming from Finland. I honestly don't know what clearance the Canal would ultimately allow. Looking at the Sunshine Skyway, the permitted air draft is 175' and the actual clearance is 181'. So I am guessing that a 5' or 6' clearance would be something that is practical.

 

I would love to be aboard one of those ships easing under the BoA, but with all the attention Royal is giving to the Far East, the Canal doesn't seem to be a big blip on the radar screen:(.

Best layman's explanation ever! Now I finally get it. Thank you very much Bill :D

Wow, lots of great information! Keep it coming guys!

JoeRum