When gratuities are no longer gratuities

[jackdiamond]

Waterlilly 777-I agree; and, I believe that you just called a duck a duck.

[bob278]

In defense of Bob (maybe it's the name), you could interpret his post that his real objection is being told how much to tip. He does clearly state that he has tipped when the appropriate circumstances were present. I would hope that he realizes the circumstances are appropriate on a cruise.

 

My personal preference would be for the staff to be paid a good enough wage that they had all the needed incentive to provide very good service with the opportunity to make even more in true tips. I would be fine with paying the equivalent in the current suggested tips as part of the cruise fare to make this happen. As I see it, that would be one of those famous "win-win" situations. I still pay the same amount but the staff is guaranteed to get what they deserve. Plus, I still have the option to reward extraordinary service with a true tip. The only losers are those who are looking for a way to save a few bucks on the backs of people who need them far more than anyone who can afford to cruise.

 

If I have been overly generous to Bob and he truly is trying to justify not tipping on a cruise, then I say "shame on him".

 

Anyone who can read should be fully aware that many people on the ship who will be serving them rely on tips/gratuities/service charge or "rip-off fee" for their well-deserved compensation. Whether or not they agree with how "correct" it is that the cruise line has based their compensation on getting tips, those who say they didn't know in advance are incredibly naive or just cheap and deserving of the scorn heaped on them.

 

By the way, well said, Karyn.

[daveandcathy]

Having been on numerous cruises, we always prepare for the tipping. The staff is grossly underpaid and depend heavily on the tips. However, our last trip on Solstice we experienced the mandatory tipping. While they did say you could make adjustments up or down or have them removed, we just decided to add a personal amount to the employees who outdid themselves. Ironically, this was also the first time we didn't feel like the staff was working as hard to treat us as guests. For those that got the extra tip, they worked hard and were truly grateful to receive the extra amount.

[jackdiamond]

By the way Bob-I began my paperboy career at the age of ten; and, after two years of saving, I bought the one and only bike I owned in my life. I grew up in a public housing project; and. throughout my teen years, I worked as a farm laborer in the summers to pay for my high school education. I spent about eight years obtaining my undergraduate and post graduate degrees by working 40 hrs. per week and attending classes 5 nights per week, 12 months of the year. I spent 36 years in my career, wherein I performed a plethora of pro bono endeavors. Additionally, in my youth, I spent some time pursuing some endeavors where tips were gratefully accepted since they were sometimes the difference between being very hungry or moderately grateful for some sustenance.

However, I do not believe that my history gives me the right to deny to the valued cruise employees who serve us their just due by virtue of auto tipping and additional gtatuities when warranted. I am somewhat distressed by the few who would offer their background as an excuse to avoid the automatic presentation of tips, or even to refuse to tip, in any event.

[bobbyleduck]

I need to clear up a couple of things. First, to Giorgi-one, who said, "You certainly are entitled to your opinion. However, since paying the recommended gratuity on a cruise is the norm, you should probably not cruise. After all, we don't want to get repulsed."

 

Huh!

 

Next, to Karynanne: I was never paid a commission, only salary, so, no it couldn’t be called a tip. And, you and Giorgi-one don’t get it. I don’t object to tipping. I object to being told that something is a tip, when in reality it isn’t, and then being told by anyone just how much that tip should be. I object to employers who routinely underpay their employees, suggest that I and others tip them a certain amount and then blame me when their employees complain about not earning enough. I agree with many people on this board that the cruise industry, restaurant industry and all other industries that expect people to tip in order for their employees to be properly paid, should man-up and pay their people, then charge the correct amount for their product and not advertise a false price.

I suppose you each just passed over this line in my post: "Why don't businesses where tips are expected just pay their people properly, as in the rest of the world, and forget this tipping garbage?"

 

Finally, for all of you flamers, I have never in all my five cruises stiffed anyone. And what in the world makes you think you have the right to tell me whether I may or may not cruise? What unmitigated arrogance! If each of you would have been like bob278, and actually read my post then you might not have been so quick to judge. As for jackdiamond, it’s time for you to get that "I am the last word on everything" chip off your shoulder. I believe a previous poster probably nailed your situation perfectly, and perhaps you missed that post.

 

Happy cruising to all!

 

Bob

[bobbyleduck]

Oh !! One more thing for you to consider. That 15% thats always added on to any beverage served on board a ship (X as an example), try adding another dollar or 2 to the additional tip line (better yet discreetly hand the bartender the cash) & notice what happens the next time you order a drink from him/her. (talking alcoholic).

 

Ziggy

 

That is interesting. You're suggesting that by bribing the bartender, under the table, that you're getting a better drink. Now, who pays for the extra alcohol in your drink? I suspect that the actual owner of the alcohol, whomever that may be, is getting ripped off. You pay extra to bartender who keeps extra, then puts more booze in your drink without charging you more for the extra alcohol. Have I got this correct?

 

Happy cruising to all!

 

Bob

[bobbyleduck]

 

Wait staff in the US can be paid as low as $2.13 per hour. At least that was true 6 months ago. If you want to stiff the people who serve you go ahead. some people in the US know how little they make, and do not tip.quote]

 

Ah, but in Oregon the minimum wage is $8.40 an hour. Same for waiters, as for people who do the laundry in a nursing home. If you don't think those people working in the nursing home work just as hard or harder than the waiters and waitresses, then you're just silly, but they don't get tips. It's a beautiful world out there, and some things aren't fair. If you have a loved one in a nursing home, you might consider tipping some of those minimum wage workers as well. They work hard, and yet most people rarely think of them.

 

Happy cruising to all!

 

Bob

 

P.S. By the way, the nursing home laundry worker is just one example of the thousands of low and minimum wage jobs of hard working people, who unlike waiters, waitresses and cruiseship employees don't get tips.

[bobbyleduck]

Something I've thought to be true for a long time is that the suggested amount for gratuities takes into account those who give less, and those who don't give at all, so those who pay the suggested amount are actually subsidizing those who don't. If that is the case, then by adding the service charge to the cruise fare should create a situation where the daily amount is less (because everybody is paying) and that way those who wish to give extra would truly be giving extra, rather than subsidizing those who didn't contribute or contributed less than the suggested daily amount. Anyone care to comment?

 

Happy cruising to all!

 

Bob

[Tucker in Texas]

A little off topic but may serve as a "heads up" on how tipping has gotten out of hand in some instances.

 

We hosted my son's rehearsal dinner with an open bar (premium liquors). We paid $100 for bar set up and two bar tenders. To every drink (sold at market price drink by drink) was added 20% tip. This was fine with us; however,I told the event planner that I did not want to see a tip jar on the bar. How the tip money was divided between the house and the employees was not my business but it was my business to host our guests graciously and totally.

 

The night of the event I was tied up for about half an hour greeting our guests. When I got the the bar, there was a huge tip jar and our guests flipping bucks into it! Husband said you could see the steam coming out of my ears. I grabbed up the jar, found the person in charge of the event and let him have it with both barrels. He said that the help did it on their own but admitted that he had not told them not to and that it was what they normally did.

 

Think about it. How many private events do you go to with a cash bar that a tip is probably added to the cost of the drink and a tip jar is sitting out there? I know that I plan a lot of luncheons, fashion shows, etc. and the quotes for the cash bar prices always include tax and tip. What really frosts my pumpkin is that we have to pay them to set up the bar that they makes a nice profit from. What's wrong with this picture?

 

By the way, I removed the money from the jar and put it in the poor box at the church where they were married the next day.

 

Tucker in Texas (who has no problem at all tipping on cruises because they are very deserving and underpaid.

[Giorgi-one]

I need to clear up a couple of things. First, to Giorgi-one, who said, "You certainly are entitled to your opinion. However, since paying the recommended gratuity on a cruise is the norm, you should probably not cruise. After all, we don't want to get repulsed."

 

Huh!

 

I suppose you each just passed over this line in my post: "Why don't businesses where tips are expected just pay their people properly, as in the rest of the world, and forget this tipping garbage?"

 

Finally, for all of you flamers, I have never in all my five cruises stiffed anyone. And what in the world makes you think you have the right to tell me whether I may or may not cruise? What unmitigated arrogance! If each of you would have been like bob278, and actually read my post then you might not have been so quick to judge. As for jackdiamond, it’s time for you to get that "I am the last word on everything" chip off your shoulder. I believe a previous poster probably nailed your situation perfectly, and perhaps you missed that post.

 

Happy cruising to all!

 

Bob

 

1. You indicated that the tipping situation on cruise ships repulsed you. I just suggested that you stop cruising so you don't get repulsed.

 

2. Which business would start first since they would have to raise their prices by 15% or 20%?

 

3. What is the difference if they say suggested gratuities or gratuities included and add this amount to the cost of the cruise. Then people would be complaining that they do not know how much tips are included. Do you expect the cruise lines (or other businesses) to pick up the tab for tips?

[Karynanne]

Bobbyleduck, your response to my comment was appreciated, but I wasn't referring to you "specifically", when I commented on those in the Financial Industry being paid a commission on their transactions. It was just a comment in general.

[TomTN]

 

Wait staff in the US can be paid as low as $2.13 per hour. At least that was true 6 months ago. If you want to stiff the people who serve you go ahead. some people in the US know how little they make, and do not tip.quote]

 

Ah, but in Oregon the minimum wage is $8.40 an hour. Same for waiters, as for people who do the laundry in a nursing home. If you don't think those people working in the nursing home work just as hard or harder than the waiters and waitresses, then you're just silly, but they don't get tips. It's a beautiful world out there, and some things aren't fair. If you have a loved one in a nursing home, you might consider tipping some of those minimum wage workers as well. They work hard, and yet most people rarely think of them.

 

Happy cruising to all!

 

Bob

 

P.S. By the way, the nursing home laundry worker is just one example of the thousands of low and minimum wage jobs of hard working people, who unlike waiters, waitresses and cruise ship employees don't get tips.

 

Obviously Oregon is not a part of the US. Nor are the handful of other states who have decided to pay more than the US Fed minimum. ;)

Do you tip the nursing home workers? In TN they are paid about 3 times what waiters are paid.

Would you tip a waitress in those states with low cash payments to waitstaff? I guess from now own we should read up on the minimum wage laws before eating at a restaurant in a state you are not familiar with.

 

Yep, the cruise line system of "tips" to pay employees needs to be changed. Yep, the customer should have a clear understanding of the true cost of their cruise.

 

My wife's mother is in a nursing home, and yes, to many including me those nursing home jobs are dreadful. I'd collect garbage for a similar wage any day of the week.

 

Min wage in 50 US states.

http://www.paywizard.org/main/Minimumwageandovertime/MinimumWageTIPRecevers

[Giorgi-one]

 

 

Yep, the cruise line system of "tips" to pay employees needs to be changed. Yep, the customer should have a clear understanding of the true cost of their cruise.

QUOTE]

 

Not to belabor the point but

 

 

True Cruise Cost = Cruise Fare + Taxes + Fuel Surcharge + Gratuities

 

or

 

True Cruise Cost = Cruise Fare (including gratuities) + Taxes + Fuel Surcharge

 

 

Same True Cruise Cost both ways. Does it really Matter?

[bob278]

 

Not to belabor the point but

 

 

True Cruise Cost = Cruise Fare + Taxes + Fuel Surcharge + Gratuities

 

or

 

True Cruise Cost = Cruise Fare (including gratuities) + Taxes + Fuel Surcharge

 

 

Same True Cruise Cost both ways. Does it really Matter?

 

Nice way to display it, but for many people, the point is that they feel it is being misrepresented and/or too many people don't understand.

 

As for being misrepresented, I disagree as there are many references to tipping/gratuities available for any casual observer. I will grant that it does allow the cruiseline to display a lower number up front and that is good advertising.

 

As for the people not understanding, I think that is a symptom of today's society that doesn't believe people should be held accountable for their actions or decisions. Too much "hand-holding" going on, in my opinion. If someone cannot figure out with all the information that is available that there is another element of standard cost, then the surprise is their fault and they should not try to rationalize that they did not know about it so they shouldn't have to pay it.

 

Maybe the solution is for them to say up front when they board that they didn't know tips were required and can't afford them. Then the waiters and cabin attendants can choose not to serve them or clean the cabins.

[bobbyleduck]

Bobbyleduck, your response to my comment was appreciated, but I wasn't referring to you "specifically", when I commented on those in the Financial Industry being paid a commission on their transactions. It was just a comment in general.

 

To that end you are correct, and not only that, but many of them receive huge bonuses. Not I, but many in the many Wall Street financial services firms.

 

Happy cruising to all!

 

Bob

[bobbyleduck]

1. You indicated that the tipping situation on cruise ships repulsed you. I just suggested that you stop cruising so you don't get repulsed.

 

No, I was talking about tipping in general and said, "No, the idea of tipping has become so skewed that it repulses many of us," which was in reference to the "idea of tipping," and not specifically "the tipping situation on cruise ships."

Happy cruising to all!

Bob

[bobbyleduck]

 

Obviously Oregon is not a part of the US. Nor are the handful of other states who have decided to pay more than the US Fed minimum. ;)

Do you tip the nursing home workers? In TN they are paid about 3 times what waiters are paid.

Would you tip a waitress in those states with low cash payments to waitstaff? I guess from now own we should read up on the minimum wage laws before eating at a restaurant in a state you are not familiar with.

 

Yep, the cruise line system of "tips" to pay employees needs to be changed. Yep, the customer should have a clear understanding of the true cost of their cruise.

 

My wife's mother is in a nursing home, and yes, to many including me those nursing home jobs are dreadful. I'd collect garbage for a similar wage any day of the week.

 

Min wage in 50 US states.

http://www.paywizard.org/main/Minimumwageandovertime/MinimumWageTIPRecevers

 

I don't understand most of your post, but to make things clear. I tip waiters, waitresses and cruiseline employees. I tip them in Oregon and every other place I have visited. I tip fairly and thoughtfully, and no, I don't tip nursing home employees except for this one nurse that I know, and even then it's just the standard "Buy low and sell high."

 

Happy cruising to all!

 

Bob

 

P.O. For any of you who didn't get it, that last comment about the nurse was a joke, and the nurse in question is my adorable wife of nearly 33 years.

[FinelyCruising]

Something I've thought to be true for a long time is that the suggested amount for gratuities takes into account those who give less, and those who don't give at all, so those who pay the suggested amount are actually subsidizing those who don't. If that is the case, then by adding the service charge to the cruise fare should create a situation where the daily amount is less (because everybody is paying) and that way those who wish to give extra would truly be giving extra, rather than subsidizing those who didn't contribute or contributed less than the suggested daily amount. Anyone care to comment?

 

Happy cruising to all!

 

Bob

 

I do. Hallelujah!!!!

[FinelyCruising]

A little off topic but may serve as a "heads up" on how tipping has gotten out of hand in some instances.

 

We hosted my son's rehearsal dinner with an open bar (premium liquors). We paid $100 for bar set up and two bar tenders. To every drink (sold at market price drink by drink) was added 20% tip. This was fine with us; however,I told the event planner that I did not want to see a tip jar on the bar. How the tip money was divided between the house and the employees was not my business but it was my business to host our guests graciously and totally.

 

The night of the event I was tied up for about half an hour greeting our guests. When I got the the bar, there was a huge tip jar and our guests flipping bucks into it! Husband said you could see the steam coming out of my ears. I grabbed up the jar, found the person in charge of the event and let him have it with both barrels. He said that the help did it on their own but admitted that he had not told them not to and that it was what they normally did.

 

Think about it. How many private events do you go to with a cash bar that a tip is probably added to the cost of the drink and a tip jar is sitting out there? I know that I plan a lot of luncheons, fashion shows, etc. and the quotes for the cash bar prices always include tax and tip. What really frosts my pumpkin is that we have to pay them to set up the bar that they makes a nice profit from. What's wrong with this picture?

 

By the way, I removed the money from the jar and put it in the poor box at the church where they were married the next day.

 

Tucker in Texas (who has no problem at all tipping on cruises because they are very deserving and underpaid.

 

Good for you!;)

[FinelyCruising]

I sure do understand how important it is for some to have all bases covered.:o

 

 

As I understand your responses, we would probably receive a $200.00-$300.00, OBC, which could probably be used to wipe out a good portion of the auto tipping. Am I correct?

 

Seems no one is immune to saving a buck, no matter what the bloviation, pontification or euphemism....:cool:

[TomTN]

 

I don't understand most of your post, but to make things clear. I tip waiters, waitresses and cruise line employees. I tip them in Oregon and every other place I have visited. I tip fairly and thoughtfully, and no, I don't tip nursing home employees except for this one nurse that I know, and even then it's just the standard "Buy low and sell high."

 

Happy cruising to all!

 

Bob

 

P.O. For any of you who didn't get it, that last comment about the nurse was a joke, and the nurse in question is my adorable wife of nearly 33 years.

 

Are you saying your wife, who is a nurse is paid minimum wage?

 

i would tip less in OR than Tn. In OR a waiter is paid $8.40/hr. In Tn about $2.

 

LOL, how am i or anyone else to know you are speaking of your wife?

do you do anything for the nursing home workers? You suggest they deserve more than they make.

[FinelyCruising]

 

LOL, how am i or anyone else to know you are speaking of your wife?

do you do anything for the nursing home workers? You suggest they deserve more than they make.

 

This sure is Off Topic, but I can suggest from my personal point of view caretakers are vastly underpaid. You go and take care of others loved ones in what is proported to be decent facilities then report back.

[TomTN]

 

This sure is Off Topic, but I can suggest from my personal point of view caretakers are vastly underpaid. You go and take care of others loved ones in what is proported to be decent facilities then report back.

 

My wife's mother is in a nursing home. "Decent" is subjective. I pointed that out in an earlier reply to one of your post. do you ever read a post before you reply? I clearly stated i could not perform that job.

What would you like for me to tell you about her care?

 

 

Sorry Finely Cruising. I though Bob had posted this, and i was replying to him. OTOH, I did post my current experience with a loved one in a nursing home. Where she lives we have NHC and Lifecare. I don't know if the rest of the world considers those facilities "decent".

[FinelyCruising]

 

My wife's mother is in a nursing home. "Decent" is subjective.

What would you like for me to tell you?

 

Oh so you are paying for less than decent? What would you like me to tell you?

 

I'll answer, Nothing. This is not about nursing homes. So thanks for the opportunity to bring this back to topic.:p

 

Seems that you edit posts along the way. No difference, the message is the same. I had time to edit mine too.

 

Stay on topic, this is about cruising.

[TomTN]

 

Oh so you are paying for less than decent? What would you like me to tell you?

 

I'll answer, Nothing. This is not about nursing homes. So thanks for the opportunity to bring this back to topic.:p

 

Seems that you edit posts along the way. No difference, the message is the same. I had time to edit mine too.

 

Stay on topic, this is about cruising.

 

what does what one is paying have to do with the care one should receive?

I'm not the one who brought nursing home care into the topic.

I'd rather discuss cruising too.