When gratuities are no longer gratuities

[Hlitner]

It was difficult not to notice that Celebrity's new anytime dining program "requires" that so-called gratuities be paid in advance! As a long time cruiser (more than 35 years of cruising) we are used to tipping and we tend to tip well for good service. But, when a cruise line "requires" the payment of "gratuities" in advance, they are no longer gratuities but rather a price increase. So, why not just add $12 per passenger day onto the cruise fare and say, "no tipping allowed." We understand that the cruise lines have wrestled with how to handle tipping with various anytime dining concepts, but the problem is that tipping just does not work on cashless ships with multiple dining options. We think its time for a mass market cruise line to be honest with passengers and totally do away with the phoney tipping schemes.

 

Hank

[trinitygirl]

that would totally suit me - it is very confusing, the whole business (more so to those of us from non-tipping cultures perhaps).

[jackdiamond]

Hank-I do not agree with your assessment of this procedure as "phoney tipping schemes", but I do agree that tips, as such, should be eliminated and the fare should be increased by that amount. Under this procedure, passengers woud be requested to not tip. This would be the procedure already in effect on many of the luxury lines. One advantage of this system is that it would result in the removal of the various threads on the boards relative to this subject.

By the way, how many times have you cruised Celebrity?

[hajekfam]

Hank-I do not agree with your assessment of this procedure as "phoney tipping schemes", but I do agree that tips, as such, should be eliminated and the fare should be increased by that amount. Under this procedure, passengers woud be requested to not tip. This would be the procedure already in effect on many of the luxury lines. One advantage of this system is that it would result in the removal of the various threads on the boards relative to this subject.

By the way, how many times have you cruised Celebrity?

 

If you increase fares to include the tip amount, the increase would have to be more than the actual tip amount. The travel agent gets a comission on the cruise fare so the increase to include tips would also have to include the agents commission on that amount - granted it might not be that much more - but on a longer cruise it coud mean an extra drink or two. I personally like the ability to tip in cash the amount that I feel the staff deserves - I do not like the tips to be added to my account.

I can understand why tips for open dining would have to be prepaid - under traditional dining, you have the same waiter each night. For open dining, you will probably have a different waiter each night (unless you request and get the same waiter).

[weliketocruise86]

It was difficult not to notice that Celebrity's new anytime dining program "requires" that so-called gratuities be paid in advance! As a long time cruiser (more than 35 years of cruising) we are used to tipping and we tend to tip well for good service. But, when a cruise line "requires" the payment of "gratuities" in advance, they are no longer gratuities but rather a price increase. So, why not just add $12 per passenger day onto the cruise fare and say, "no tipping allowed." We understand that the cruise lines have wrestled with how to handle tipping with various anytime dining concepts, but the problem is that tipping just does not work on cashless ships with multiple dining options. We think its time for a mass market cruise line to be honest with passengers and totally do away with the phoney tipping schemes.

 

Hank

 

I agree, gratuities should be included as part of the holiday cost. If you then feel the service has been exceptional you are free to leave an additional tip at your discretion.

[esther e]

I think Regent has the right idea. The gratuities are included in the fare (we know there is no free lunch!) and rather than giving extra tips to individuals, there is a Crew Fund Box at the reception desk where you can add for crew parties, etc. I would also like to see Cokes and bottled water included gratis.

[jackdiamond]

Ester e-I am somewhat ambivalent vis-a-vis your suggestion re: cokes.

However, I am opposed to your bottle water suggestion, since the tap water on the ship is just as medically and nutritionally efficacious.

[swigso]

What is the difference from Pre Paid Gratuities and increasing the

cruise fare??/

 

The tips need to be paid so what's the problem,

I know we will get all the old chestnuts like I like to be in control of who I tip-

I always tip more than the minimum. etc etc,

The cruiseline sets a guideline , it can be charged to your account or prepaid or you can choose to pay it directly, why does this subject cause so much controversy.

For me Prepaid = no worries already done, service has never been an issue for me as it has always been excellent.

Just my 2pence worth.

[ZiggyKeys]

I agree with swigso. Get the grats out of the way (prepaid) & then add any additional $$$ for service thats above & beyond the normal.

 

Zigg

[FinelyCruising]

If you increase fares to include the tip amount, the increase would have to be more than the actual tip amount. The travel agent gets a comission on the cruise fare so the increase to include tips would also have to include the agents commission on that amount - granted it might not be that much more - but on a longer cruise it coud mean an extra drink or two. I personally like the ability to tip in cash the amount that I feel the staff deserves - I do not like the tips to be added to my account.

I can understand why tips for open dining would have to be prepaid - under traditional dining, you have the same waiter each night. For open dining, you will probably have a different waiter each night (unless you request and get the same waiter).

 

As best as I know, commissions are paid on what is referred to as the commisionable portion of the fare, which does not include port fees and taxes, and would not include tips if they were added, just as they were not paid commissionon the fuel surcharge when that was in effect.

 

So their commission is paid on an amount less than your stated cabin cruise fare when you book.

[I&J Cruisers]

I think eventually we'll see these "pre paid gratuities" evolve into service fee add ons to the price of the cruise. Does anyone else remember when the port charges for a 7 day cruise with 3 or 4 port stops was about $54?

[Can'tstopcruising]

I agree with the idea of adding the tips to the fare, resulting in a "no tipping" policy.

 

Perhaps I am in the minority here, but I don't like tipping. I don't like figuring out how much. I don't want to under or over-tip (I am referring to all tipping, not just on a cruise).

 

In some restaurants, on the credit card bill, you can accept or reject a 15% tip. I love that. You click on accept and voila! Done!

[cpj]

What is the difference from Pre Paid Gratuities and increasing the

cruise fare??/

 

The tips need to be paid so what's the problem,

I know we will get all the old chestnuts like I like to be in control of who I tip-

I always tip more than the minimum. etc etc,

The cruiseline sets a guideline , it can be charged to your account or prepaid or you can choose to pay it directly, why does this subject cause so much controversy.

For me Prepaid = no worries already done, service has never been an issue for me as it has always been excellent.

Just my 2pence worth.

Your right there is no difference. The only difference is there are people who want to tip less or not tip at all. These people do exlst and do not care what we think. Some are just cheap and some come from cultures where they do not tip. I just think the cruise lines should add a service charge or just increase the cost of there cruises. and be done with this subject.

[Eightydays]

I think one difference might be that tips included in the price of the cruise might be deemed income to Celebrity (and therefore taxable, etc.), while tips go straight to the employees and becomes their responsibility.

[pete_coach]

I agree with swigso. Get the grats out of the way (prepaid) & then add any additional $$$ for service thats above & beyond the normal.

 

Zigg

 

I think eventually we'll see these "pre paid gratuities" evolve into service fee add ons to the price of the cruise. Does anyone else remember when the port charges for a 7 day cruise with 3 or 4 port stops was about $54?

 

I already paid my gratuities when I paid for my cruise. My travel agent asked if I wanted to pay then, I said OK.

So, now I have to think about tipping again? If I get extra service? What extra service is that? Some money to the person who brings me room service? An additional dollar or two on top of my drink order that has already and addiltional 15% added? A bit more for the massuse?

I am new to cruiseing and the only thing pre-paid (or forced payment) tipping has done is added an extra 260 dollars (in our case) to the price of the cruise, if we were to do additinal tipping as some have suggested. You know this will happen, pre-pay and then still feel obligated to tip on top of the pre-paid amount.

The ones who potentially lose are the workers on the ship. There was an advantage to having unrecorded amounts of cash stuffed into your poket at the end of a cruise.

[ma_in_ak]

I don't mind the pre paid tipping either, it makes things simpler. but I have been to all inclusive resorts where all tips are included and I can say that the people who tip extra get better service. I once saw a waiter at a beach resort go to an umbrella in the front row where someone had "held" chairs with a towel and he flung the towel on the sand and offered it to the person who had tipped him well the day before (okay, it was me). And I actually thought it was funny because I hate the saving chairs thing and I wasn't going to turn down the good chair. But should cruises be the same way? Waiters coming by to you more often because you gave him an extra tip earlier? Everyone should get good service.

 

And I don't agree with the person above who said people are cheap who come from cultures who don't tip. Different culture is not the same as cheap, it's just a different way of doing things. Like in Mexico - the waiter never brings the check until you ask for it. Some get mad that the waiter is not bringing their check and think he is lazy, slow or rude, yet the waiter is waiting for the check to be requested so they are not rushing the customer out of the restaurant.

[woodofpine]

I was contemplating an article from a few years ago titled "Before the Bang" on the nature of God and time. This probably applies to cruising... just follow a second.

 

Einstein's theory of general relativity has been scientifically proven;

Max Plank's theory of quantum mechanics has been scienticially proven.

 

They've never been theoretically compatible with each other. Except, they can be made compatible via the Wheeler-DeWitt equation. To make the Wheeler-DeWitt equation work you need to remove time...

 

Ergo - time doesn't exist.

 

As long as the crew get their due, it doesn't matter when. There's a strong possibility that the Purser's Desk exists in a completely different dimension (which is something I've long suspected personally).

 

In the same way, I'm typing at my work desk; but this is the behavior of someone that should be retired. Maybe I am retired. Maybe I should change the sequence and go back to work so I can afford a cruise. That's a good idea.

 

Like the Wheeler-DeWitt equation, cruising is timeless.:)

[FinelyCruising]

I already paid my gratuities when I paid for my cruise. My travel agent asked if I wanted to pay then, I said OK.

So, now I have to think about tipping again? If I get extra service? What extra service is that? Some money to the person who brings me room service? An additional dollar or two on top of my drink order that has already and addiltional 15% added? A bit more for the massuse?

I am new to cruiseing and the only thing pre-paid (or forced payment) tipping has done is added an extra 260 dollars (in our case) to the price of the cruise, if we were to do additinal tipping as some have suggested. You know this will happen, pre-pay and then still feel obligated to tip on top of the pre-paid amount.

The ones who potentially lose are the workers on the ship. There was an advantage to having unrecorded amounts of cash stuffed into your poket at the end of a cruise.

 

If you have prepaid your tips then you have providied gratuities for more of the staff than many people do by virtue of the including on the 'Other Personnel and some of the DR managers. You can take pride in that, IMHO.

 

Usually, all drink checks have an automatic 15% gratuity added, its cent's actually when its tabulated.

 

And, most people do tip the room service person in the morning for example a dollar or two, usually two. Some give more when its a larger meal, and some do not tip at all if the delviery is made by thier cabin steward. So its kind of what you feel is right for you to do, but these are common items that I have highlighted for your reference.

[kruzgal]

We have just returned for the first Ancient Empires cruise on the Equinox and for the first time we opted to pre-pay gratuities (because it saved us a lot of money paying in pounds before the trip rather than in dollars onboard). The service we received onboard was fantastic as usual. It was much easier not having to count out money at the end of the holiday but we were not given any vouchers/envelopes to hand over to the crew. None of the people who had served us (waiters/cabin steward) said thank you for the tips or acknowledged that they had received them so we ended up having to ask them if they had received them just to be sure. It all felt very strange and was very much 'taken for granted' - staff should be told to say 'thank you' to those that have pre-paid. It costs nothing.

[FinelyCruising]

We have just returned for the first Ancient Empires cruise on the Equinox and for the first time we opted to pre-pay gratuities (because it saved us a lot of money paying in pounds before the trip rather than in dollars onboard). The service we received onboard was fantastic as usual. It was much easier not having to count out money at the end of the holiday but we were not given any vouchers/envelopes to hand over to the crew. None of the people who had served us (waiters/cabin steward) said thank you for the tips or acknowledged that they had received them so we ended up having to ask them if they had received them just to be sure. It all felt very strange and was very much 'taken for granted' - staff should be told to say 'thank you' to those that have pre-paid. It costs nothing.[/quote]

 

Wow! I'll say. A few more reports like that will not be good.

[Guest maddycat]

What is the difference from Pre Paid Gratuities and increasing the

cruise fare??/

 

The tips need to be paid so what's the problem,

I know we will get all the old chestnuts like I like to be in control of who I tip-

I always tip more than the minimum. etc etc,

The cruiseline sets a guideline , it can be charged to your account or prepaid or you can choose to pay it directly, why does this subject cause so much controversy.

For me Prepaid = no worries already done, service has never been an issue for me as it has always been excellent.

Just my 2pence worth.

 

I agree. We've charged our tips to our shipboard account for years. We now choose MTD/Select Dining and prepay our gratuities. One less thing to worry about.

[Sabbycat]

My problem with prepaid or mandtory gratuities is that they cease to be gratuities at that point, and are simply an additional service fee.

 

If they are to be mandtory, then they should be called what they are. if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck - - it is a duck.

 

I know it sounds cleeshay to say, but I do always tip and most of the time, I overtip b/c I used to work in service. I resent being told that I must tip. I am like a child that way - you tell me I must do something - - then I do not want to. Childish, but true none the less.

 

BTW -

This is the definition of gratuity.

Main Entry: gra·tu·ity

Pronunciation: \grə-ˈtü-ə-tē, -ˈtyü-\

Function: noun

Inflected Form(s): plural gra·tu·ities

Date: 1540

: something given voluntarily or beyond obligation usually for some service;

 

This is the definition of service charge.

Main Entry: service charge

Function: noun

Date: 1917

: a fee charged for a particular service often in addition to a standard or basic fee

 

Let us not confuse the one w/ the other. Call a spade a spade pls.

[6502programmer]

I don't understand all the resentment.. Gratuities represent a significant portion of a crew member's compensation. If you have a service for which no specific crew members are responsible (say, select dining), one bad service can kill the gratuity for all of the servers. That's not fair. Similarly, it's not fair for a lazy server who's already getting paid through pre-paid gratuities to not provide a decent level of service. Either you put the power in the hands of the individuals to shaft all of their servers, or you put the power in the hands of the cruise line to "make folks whole" through non-cash compensation, such as a bottle or two of wine).

 

Of course, all CC denizens are "above average" cruisers, and Celebrity is an "above average" line, so I'm not maligning anyone here, but I would trust the AMD and MD to fix a service problem (both the underlying condition and the damage caused by it) far more than I would the average cruiser to not stiff a bunch of people they only interacted with for a few minutes.

 

Could they make the tip mandatory for all, call it something else, or even bake it into the fare? Sure! Then, however, we'd have to endure ceaseless "Anil refused to bring me a cookie every hour of every day, all because I wouldn't give him EVEN MORE money than I already paid. Why do we pay service charges when we're not getting service??" or "I wanted to eat six lobster tails for dinner the first night of my cruise. I was told no, that they didn't have the lobster aboard yet. I'm sure if I offered a VERY GENEROUS five dollar tip, my request would have been granted. This 'no tipping' policy is terrible!" Yeah, I'll take a pass on listening to THAT! :)

[CPT Trips]

I've cruised on NCL and all honesty, I found the service in their freestyle concept to be everything a cruiser could expect. They put the "tip" on your account and didn't readily remove it.

 

I would expect the same from X service staff with a new concept.

 

I don't care whether the cruise line calls it a gratuity, a service charge or something else. As long as it goes to the crew and I can put it on my ship board account and not have to be concerned about having enough cash . . . I'm a happy cruiser.

 

If I get poor service and am unable to resolve things, then I will contact the appropriate ship's staff.

[tuvok37]

Wow, Sabbycat read my mind.

A tip is what I choose to give voluntarily for good service. Pre-paid gratuities are service charges.

 

You can call me cheap or you can call me generous, it doesn't matter because it's my experience I base my tip on.

 

There should be no reason not to use your ship card to add a gratuity to a meal, making it simple to track back to the crew member.

 

I too liked the days of personally extending a personal envelope to the members who looked after us. There was something very intimate about that which is missing in the impersonal current system.

 

I'm all for tipping - it's a pleasure. Can't say the same about service fees :)