When gratuities are no longer gratuities

[Waterlily777]

FinelyCruising doesn't even know what she is paying for. The $30 to eat in the Specialty Dining room IS THE TIP. You are not paying for the food! Understood????

 

I like you Jack. I want to cruise with you and your wife.

I don't want to cruise with people that are like Finelycruising.

 

We love the crew members on these ships. We have cruised so many times on Celebrity that the crew all know us, no matter which ship we are on. They work so hard, many hours. We have taken good care of them and they appreciate it. We have given money AND phone cards. We always gave cash at the end of the cruise. They prefer the cash because they get it RIGHT NOW. When we charge, they have to wait until Celebrity gives it to them. We have asked them how they feel about the auto tipping and even though they would rather get the money RIGHT NOW, they like the idea that those behind the scenes that help them to provide US with good service are taken care of too. One time we did drop the auto tipping because we wanted to hand them their envelopes and it actually cost us more in the end so now we leave it on and give extra.

 

Where is your cruise to Jack?

 

marlene

 

 

I am sorry, mardon, but YOU have misunderstood. Only a part of the $30 goes to gratuities. Part of the cost goes to upgrade the food. This information came from Jacques Van Staden, VP for Food and Beverages on Celebrity. If I can locate the quote, I will post it.

[Cruise Junky]

I am sorry, mardon, but YOU have misunderstood. Only a part of the $30 goes to gratuities. Part of the cost goes to upgrade the food. This information came from Jacques Van Staden, VP for Food and Beverages on Celebrity. If I can locate the quote, I will post it.

 

allow me...

 

The majority of the surcharge does go to the staff. It varies slightly by specialty restaurant, but again, the largest percentage goes toward gratuities for our staff, and the rest toward purchasing higher quality ingredients.

[mardon]

Hi Waterlily. Please post that info for me. We are good friends with the sommelier in the Specialty Dining Room and she has told us that the whole amount of $30 is split amongst those that serve us. Have you noticed that you might have had 4-5 serve. The fee is more if you go for the wine pairing menu, then you are paying extra for the wine. Our last cruise was l0 day Caribbean and our tablemates came to dinner 5 times. When I saw them by the pool they (from England where the custom is not to tip) said that they were using their tip money to pay for their meals in the Specialty Dining Room and were not tipping the MDR crew because they hardly waited on them. They didn't even know who served them breakfast or lunch. All they knew was that THEIR waiter didn't serve them dinner so why tip. Really made me mad. How do they live with themselves. Our waiter was a young guy from Philippines who had a newborn son who he never saw and still had many months to go before going home. How could anyone cheat him of $3.50 per day X 10 days=$35.00. We go out to dinner often and leave at least $l0 tip for ONE meal. Ugh!

 

Jack, where are you????

[Waterlily777]

allow me...

 

The majority of the surcharge does go to the staff. It varies slightly by specialty restaurant, but again, the largest percentage goes toward gratuities for our staff, and the rest toward purchasing higher quality ingredients.

 

 

I found the above quote from Jacques Van Staden, but not quite fast enough. :D

 

R del Pappa, who used to post on these boards, was a former Food and Beverage manager, and was in charge of the "back of house" for the Normandie on Summit. He also said, at various times, that part of the $30 was used to offset the food costs, and that a small part went to offset the salaries of the Maitre d' and the Chef de Rang. I read somewhere on these boards that approximately 2/3 ($20 dollars) went to the serving staff as gratuities, and approximately $7.00 went to upgraded food costs.

[mardon]

The crew get up early to be in the MDR and buffet area for breakfast. They are done around 10:30 to go back to their room and do whatever. Back again to the MDR or buffet area for lunch at 12 and serve, clean up until around 2-2:30. Back into the MDF to set up for 6 p.m. dinner. Clear away and set up again for 8:30 dinner. We never left the dining room before 10:30 p.m. and the crew still had to clean up and set up for breakfast the next day. LONG HOURS! Celebrity pays them $50 per month. They might get $750 a week in tips for all their hard work. LONG DAY. Not alot of money for the hours they put in. They put in alot more hours than we do here in the states on our jobs.They depend on our tips. We have always had the best service. Always a Smile, a Hello. Why would anyone want to cheat (stiff) them.

[FinelyCruising]

I travelled once in a Sky Suite with a good friend. At the end of the cruise, this friend had all kinds of reasons (none of them justified) for not tipping the recommended amount. We had had fantastic service but she was clearly just trying to go cheap on the tip as a "cost-saving" measure. I tried to explain, tactfully, that the service personnel received 95% of their remuneration through the tips they received, but she was not at all embarrassed about her point of view. She left half of the recommended amount.

 

She is still a friend, but I never felt the same about her again.

 

Thanks for sharing your experience I suppose it is more common than we think. I think that the two new pay options are in the best interests of the staff and appear to me to be needed.

 

I would prefer that the cruise line gets on with a firm position or at least a firmer one if they leave the system in place rather than include in the fare.

 

It disturbs me to see what I did on the last cruise. It speaks to things I'd prefer not to be forced to know.

[mardon]

But the point is that people are stiffing the crew so they can eat in the Specialty Dining Room. They are willing to pay $30 (even if it is only $20 of the $30) to tip for ONE meal but not tip the MDR crew who cover them in the dining room in the evening and in the buffet area at breakfast and lunch. They don't even realize who is serving them in the a.m. and at lunch.

[Jade13]

 

Oh !! One more thing for you to consider. That 15% thats always added on to any beverage served on board a ship (X as an example), try adding another dollar or 2 to the additional tip line (better yet discreetly hand the bartender the cash) & notice what happens the next time you order a drink from him/her. (talking alcoholic).

 

Ziggy

 

We had a big problem on Century last year as we had pre-paid cola cards. We had two teenagers and that was the best way to go. We could never get anyone to get us a drink unless we walked up to a bar. We would show our card to a drink waiter and he would never come back. Those cards already include the gratuity. I wrote about this in my review as well as letter to Celebrity. They should not be selling a product when they can not deliver.

 

Someone asked at the disembark talk and the Director clearly stated that the slip you sign has the waiters ID and that is how he gets his tip. So, he has a reason not to bring a pre-paid drink, although he doesn't know whether or not you will leave extra than or even at the end of a cruise (which can be easily done when the same waiter is at the same bar location every day).

 

We are going back on Century next year and I will be looking to see if anything has changed.

[FinelyCruising]

I found the above quote from Jacques Van Staden, but not quite fast enough. :D

 

R del Pappa, who used to post on these boards, was a former Food and Beverage manager, and was in charge of the "back of house" for the Normandie on Summit. He also said, at various times, that part of the $30 was used to offset the food costs, and that a small part went to offset the salaries of the Maitre d' and the Chef de Rang. I read somewhere on these boards that approximately 2/3 ($20 dollars) went to the serving staff as gratuities, and approximately $7.00 went to upgraded food costs.

 

Thanks to both of you. There are quite a few staff in say

Muranos so it's probably split 4 ways. There is the waiter, the bus person the dessert guy and the maitre'd. Does not go very far when you think about the best on the ship but I have understood their pay structre is different than the MDR.

[FinelyCruising]

But the point is that people are stiffing the crew so they can eat in the Specialty Dining Room. They are willing to pay $30 (even if it is only $20 of the $30) to tip for ONE meal but not tip the MDR crew who cover them in the dining room in the evening and in the buffet area at breakfast and lunch. They don't even realize who is serving them in the a.m. and at lunch.

 

They don't care. They have already decided what they want to pAy for and what they don't.

 

But it's probably not just the dining staff this is happening to.

[jackdiamond]

Hi Waterlily. Please post that info for me. We are good friends with the sommelier in the Specialty Dining Room and she has told us that the whole amount of $30 is split amongst those that serve us. Have you noticed that you might have had 4-5 serve. The fee is more if you go for the wine pairing menu, then you are paying extra for the wine. Our last cruise was l0 day Caribbean and our tablemates came to dinner 5 times. When I saw them by the pool they (from England where the custom is not to tip) said that they were using their tip money to pay for their meals in the Specialty Dining Room and were not tipping the MDR crew because they hardly waited on them. They didn't even know who served them breakfast or lunch. All they knew was that THEIR waiter didn't serve them dinner so why tip. Really made me mad. How do they live with themselves. Our waiter was a young guy from Philippines who had a newborn son who he never saw and still had many months to go before going home. How could anyone cheat him of $3.50 per day X 10 days=$35.00. We go out to dinner often and leave at least $l0 tip for ONE meal. Ugh!

 

Jack, where are you????

I am here; and, I agree with your observations. Interestingly, on a ten nighter on the Emerald Princess in April, I chatted with about 100 people vis-a-vis auto tipping. Only two folks objected to the system, utilizing the same euphemisms were sometimes hear on these boards. They live in England in the summer; and they resided in a trailer park in Ft. Myers Beach, Fl. in the winter. Our next one is AQ on the first December cruise of the Equinox.

[Giorgi-one]

They said 25%...wow that's huge.:o

 

Now just for example, and order of magnitude, my prepaid before I board tips were $322.00.

 

Yes, its a 14 night cruise, but when standing alone, its a good sized number.

 

That''s $23 per day for two persons. I would say that most dinners on a crusie ship would run close to $100 at a land based restaurant (5 courses). Appropriate tip would be $20. So essentially you a tipping $3 per day for two persons for breakfast, lunch, room attendant and everyone else on the ship. It doesn't quite look that large does it?

[shipshape sam]

If you increase fares to include the tip amount, the increase would have to be more than the actual tip amount. The travel agent gets a comission on the cruise fare so the increase to include tips would also have to include the agents commission on that amount - granted it might not be that much more - but on a longer cruise it coud mean an extra drink or two. I personally like the ability to tip in cash the amount that I feel the staff deserves - I do not like the tips to be added to my account.

I can understand why tips for open dining would have to be prepaid - under traditional dining, you have the same waiter each night. For open dining, you will probably have a different waiter each night (unless you request and get the same waiter).

 

Guess I am slow. Can you explain to me 'Why tips would need to be prepaid under anytime dining?' vs paid at the end. We have not, but have heard of people not showing up on the last night and thus potentially not providing a tip under traditional dining unless it also was prepaid.

 

The fee (yes it is a fee) is becoming more of a requirement than any form of option. I can see why cruise lines do want to keep it separate though. It does not raise the perception of cruise price rising. It does avoid a commission to TA's. I can only guess that going to this prepaid format is to help ensure the staff is not 'short changed' by the policy switch.

 

I agree too, we like to pay at the end and 90% of the time give an extra amount based on service.

[Giorgi-one]

Guess I am slow. Can you explain to me 'Why tips would need to be prepaid under anytime dining?' vs paid at the end. We have not, but have heard of people not showing up on the last night and thus potentially not providing a tip under traditional dining unless it also was prepaid.

 

For anytime dining, you would not have the same waiter every night. Which one(s) would you tip on the last night?

 

The fee (yes it is a fee) is becoming more of a requirement than any form of option. I can see why cruise lines do want to keep it separate though. It does not raise the perception of cruise price rising. It does avoid a commission to TA's. I can only guess that going to this prepaid format is to help ensure the staff is not 'short changed' by the policy switch.

 

This is not a TA problem. Commision is not paid on the entire cruise fare. Part of the cruise fare is specified as non-commissionable and tips could be handled the same way.

 

I agree too, we like to pay at the end and 90% of the time give an extra amount based on service.

 

That is great of you but as I have already posted, a large % of people stiff the waiters.

 

 

See comments above.

[mardon]

Sam & Martha -

 

The reason for the auto-tipping " is to help ensure the staff is not 'short changed'". Too many people were not showing up the last night and so the staff was getting short changed. Too many people felt that since they were not eating in the MDR they wouldn't have to tip the waiter and asst. waiter. Again, many people don't realize that those same people are the ones that are serving them at breakfast and lunch. We do like to tip at the end but will go along with the auto-tipping policy and give extra to those that do that extra. We are always so spoiled that I can't imagine getting anymore extra than we usually get.

 

Just a note to my fellow cruisers: talk to the crew. ask about their families. they want to tell you about their family. they all carry photos of their children in their shirt pockets. many of the pictures are bent or torn.

 

marlene

[FinelyCruising]

That''s $23 per day for two persons. I would say that most dinners on a crusie ship would run close to $100 at a land based restaurant (5 courses). Appropriate tip would be $20. So essentially you a tipping $3 per day for two persons for breakfast, lunch, room attendant and everyone else on the ship. It doesn't quite look that large does it?

 

The math is not an issue for me, it is for those who don't tip.

 

I don't think that massaging it is a good idea, the food is all-in, and many think that then the rest should follow. The breakfast and lunch buffet is a bad note too IMHO....how many go out of their way to tip in a buffet environment? Yes some do, but for anyone looking for an excuse not to, there sure is one since its a buffet.

 

A 7 night environment lends to those who are more comfortable in that price range for a cruise, but it was a 7 nighter where I saw all the holes in the dining room on that night where appreciation occurs.

 

There are psychological barriers that will not be overcome easily on this line. On other luxury lines its a no brainer, but this mass market line, its not going to change; the swings between the demographics is too large and there is only the average, which if 75% capture is right, then it is what it is under the present system.

[FinelyCruising]

Sam & Martha -

 

The reason for the auto-tipping " is to help ensure the staff is not 'short changed'". Too many people were not showing up the last night and so the staff was getting short changed. Too many people felt that since they were not eating in the MDR they wouldn't have to tip the waiter and asst. waiter. Again, many people don't realize that those same people are the ones that are serving them at breakfast and lunch. We do like to tip at the end but will go along with the auto-tipping policy and give extra to those that do that extra. We are always so spoiled that I can't imagine getting anymore extra than we usually get.

 

Just a note to my fellow cruisers: talk to the crew. ask about their families. they want to tell you about their family. they all carry photos of their children in their shirt pockets. many of the pictures are bent or torn.

 

marlene

 

Marlene - Two things...

 

1. Its not just people who eat in specialty..some don't spend the money even after only the MDR, they think its a waste, they just don't spend the $$$ anywhere.

 

2. No, again I want to step on board and think about one controversial thing at all. I do not want to know more about the staff than I do about the people I work with every single day. The impersonality of the distance is right for most. There should be no downers on vacation from any person, place or thing especially the staff. Vacation is about zoning out. Getting involved with staff on a highly personal level is not part of my experience. Chit chat and small talk is fine as long as its appropriate and professional in nature, stories of hardship and the like are improper just as they would be in just about any other social environment unless one is so close to another in support and closely associated friendship.

 

I think that's where you and I have the big gap in philosophy.;)

[Waterlily777]

The math is not an issue for me, it is for those who don't tip.

 

I don't think that massaging it is a good idea, the food is all-in, and many think that then the rest should follow. The breakfast and lunch buffet is a bad note too IMHO....how many go out of their way to tip in a buffet environment? Yes some do, but for anyone looking for an excuse not to, there sure is one since its a buffet.

 

A 7 night environment lends to those who are more comfortable in that price range for a cruise, but it was a 7 nighter where I saw all the holes in the dining room on that night where appreciation occurs.

 

There are psychological barriers that will not be overcome easily on this line. On other luxury lines its a no brainer, but this mass market line, its not going to change; the swings between the demographics is too large and there is only the average, which if 75% capture is right, then it is what it is under the present system.

 

Could you please explain what you mean by psychological barriers?

 

And are you saying that "stiffing" is a demographic issue? I don't find that to be true at all.

[FinelyCruising]

Could you please explain what you mean by psychological barriers?

 

And are you saying that "stiffing" is a demographic issue? I don't find that to be true at all.

 

The luxury lines include it. There is no issue with the cost or the dress code on the luxury lines. The demographics on X are unlike the luxury lines. It's definitely demographics related....i.e. mass market/mainstream.

[shipshape sam]

See comments above.

 

Again, I am not getting it. What is the specific rational for prepaying if doing anytime dining vs traditional dining.

 

Wait staff can be 'stiff' under traditional dining with the "gratituty" being paid at the end of the cruise. On the other hand, prepaying for "anytime dining" upfront only ensures the payment which the cruise lines are also trying to get for traditional dining to pay upfront also.

 

If you are suggesting that I pay the gratituty at each occurance of service that would be fine similar to the speciality restarants, but to suggest (if you are) that because with anytime dining, I may use a variety of wait staff and thus that is the reason seems incomplete. Whether I use the same wait staff or multiple wait staff, I can give a gratutity before, during and at end of cruise or I can stiff the wait staff if not required to make a gratutity payment, which requirement to me indicates it is not a gratutity, but an extra fee.

 

I see no difference if required to make the gratutity payment whether it shows up on my folio account on day one or day (last day). Am I missing something?

[Waterlily777]

The luxury lines include it. There is no issue with the cost or the dress code on the luxury lines. The demographics on X are unlike the luxury lines. It's definitely demographics related....i.e. mass market/mainstream.

 

1. I would ask again. What do you mean by psychological barriers?

 

2. Do you mean that you believe that "tipping appropriately" vs. "stiffing" is a function of demographics?

[FinelyCruising]

Again, I am not getting it. What is the specific rational for prepaying if doing anytime dining vs traditional dining.

 

Wait staff can be 'stiff' under traditional dining with the "gratituty" being paid at the end of the cruise. On the other hand, prepaying for "anytime dining" upfront only ensures the payment which the cruise lines are also trying to get for traditional dining to pay upfront also.

 

If you are suggesting that I pay the gratituty at each occurance of service that would be fine similar to the speciality restarants, but to suggest (if you are) that because with anytime dining, I may use a variety of wait staff and thus that is the reason seems incomplete. Whether I use the same wait staff or multiple wait staff, I can give a gratutity before, during and at end of cruise or I can stiff the wait staff if not required to make a gratutity payment, which requirement to me indicates it is not a gratutity, but an extra fee.

 

I see no difference if required to make the gratutity payment whether it shows up on my folio account on day one or day (last day). Am I missing something?

 

Here is what I think....the Select Dining may result in an occurrence of a variety of staffers due to a variety or dining times. Let's say that's what X thinks. If so, they are ensuring that the staff that is suiting your specific needs ESPECIALLY is not stiffed.

 

And that they have learned not to trust any of us.

[A Sixth?]

On Princess, the gratuity system is the same for anytime and traditional. You have it added to your bill and can opt out if you have issues.

 

I do admit, I am confused by this thread, and if X plans two separate systems.... :confused::confused:

 

I would like to point out that a "tip" and a "gratuity" are very different things.

 

Tips are "To Insure Prompt Service. An edge to some minds, a bribe to others, I don't care....

 

 

A gratuity is a thank you for service well done.

 

I am not sure of the merits of a prearranged gratuity... :rolleyes:

[FinelyCruising]

1. I would ask again. What do you mean by psychological barriers?

 

2. Do you mean that you believe that "tipping appropriately" vs. "stiffing" is a function of demographics?

 

The Luxury lines don't fuss with this stuff. Buy the package or not.

 

Not seems to keep many here on this line, for example due to cost structure, and stiffing the staff to boot.

[FinelyCruising]

On Princess, the gratuity system is the same for anytime and traditional. You have it added to your bill and can opt out if you have issues.

 

I do admit, I am confused by this thread, and if X plans two separate systems.... :confused::confused:

 

I would like to point out that a "tip" and a "gratuity" are very different things.

 

Tips are "To Insure Prompt Service. An edge to some minds, a bribe to others, I don't care....

 

 

A gratuity is a thank you for service well done.

 

 

 

I am not sure of the merits of a prearranged gratuity... :rolleyes:

Forget all the rest what ever you call it...Celebrity is a non -inclusive line...if you are getting your cabin cleaned very day and someone is doing that, and you are getting 6 sqaures served every day and someone is doing that, and you know from the outset that X is NOT an all inclusive line, then what's the mystery when they tell you who and what needs to be accounted for? :cool:

 

You're not sure what the merits are? The steward is going to short sheet you, mess with your towels, the waiter is not going to bring your soup even though you asked?

 

How many times can you say this has happened to you?