Parents, please keep track of your kids

[Cruisin' Chick]

As someone who just met with the school principal today because another child has been bullying my daughter, I do think some kids need more supervision, more guidance. The cruiselines should be more proactive about informing parents (not just depending on "fine print") that there will be consequences if their kids are wandering w/o parents around at 2 am (anyone under 18, for example), causing damage to the ship or furnishings, running around loose at any time disturbing passengers. My child is always signed into the kids' program (which she loves) or with at least one parent. We have taken advantage of the nighttime babysitting on Carnival and Princess (very reasonable rates) if we do want to take part in activities or whatever.
I'm in the "the troublemaking parents aren't part of the CC boards" school of thought so scolding us parents who do read these posts isn't going to solve the problem.

[Zeno]

[quote name='Girlsnightout']I don't think it's innapropriate to point out those types of situations to the people responsible at the time they are occurring, but the OP's post just seemed to be a bit of a pre-emptive strike that wasn't entirely justified. After all, it's just as unfair to assume that there are all bad parents here as it is to assume that there are all good parents here, isn't it? Trust me, if my children are misbehaving, I want to know about it, immediately, because I will NOT tolerate it, but cruisesites are known for stereotyping all parents with the lunkheads who don't have a clue...it just gets old.

Absolutely, point out the rowdy ankle-biters and put a stop to them, just point it out to the people responsible! I wonder if the OP tried to intervene while on that cruise? I think that would have been the smart thing to do...[/QUOTE]
I really don't think OP or anyone else assumes that all parents contributing to this forum are "bad parents". She/he certainly never said that nor did anyone else. So far you are the only one who has referred to "lunkheads". Personally I mostly assume the opposite of parents contributing to this forum (i.e. most seem like responsible parents who just want a good cruising experience for their children ). HOWEVER re: your comment about OP intervening - I strongly feel that it is NOT a responsibility of fellow cruisers to "report" any misbehaviour to parents - particularly given the defensive attitude displayed by some parents. If someone wants to tell a parent about misbehaviour - fine BUT it is up to PARENTS to monitor their children not to depend on others to do their job. To me this board is a forum for discussing family cruising issues. I would think that child supervison while on a cruise would be an appropriate issue for the discussion. I think OP brought out a very good point - if you are used to having a nanny supervise and discipline your children, maybe you need that nanny even on vacation. The parents she described seemed totally unprepared for or uninterested in supervising their children.

[AmyinVail]

You are dead on. I don't have to respond to one thing...everything you post is perfect and my sentiments exactly. Well done!

[NewCruiseFan]

Wow. This has been fascinating. First, I never expected to recieve any responses to my OP - I've been living in the world where no one responds to my queries. Silly me.

Second, I never expected such strong reactions to what I mistakenly assumed was a fairly basic request - know where your kids are and what they are up to.

GirlsNightOut- I have to respectfully request a review of the OP. I said right away that this was "a few families," I indicated that PAX had notified crew ("The Captain ...") and that PAX finally resolved to address the issues directly with the few children causing the problems "Passengers tried to get kids names..." I am really sorry if my post seemed condesending or directed at the entire world of parents - it was not meant that way.

Like Zeno (Thanks, btw, for your support!) indicated - some folks ask some unexpected questions here (are candles ok? can i leave the kids alone?).

And, with over 100,000 folks on these boards it's safe to assume not everyone knows parental etiquette on board. I know that I learned things which would never have dawned on me were it not for the posts here. Like, do you give crew Christmas gifts?

It was a 14 day cruise, I waited until day 10 to send my own letter to Crew and that was after speaking to several crew members who'd indicated these few families were *THE* topic of discussion every single morning at the Captains briefing with the crew. I am drafting a letter to Colin Vietch (anyone have a snail mail address for him?). I am not looking for a future discount, or a free cruise or any freebie - that is the main reason I have not sent a letter yet.

What I would like is to hear that NCL has rules and guidelines - and that there are repercussions for repeated violations - leading up to being escorted off the ship. I and my fellow passengers were worried for the safety of the children and the other passengers - and angered by the lack of parental involvement.

You're right, I don't know if any of the kids were reprimanded but given that the behavior continued right up to the last day my suspiscion is no reprimands were given. At least some of the parents were talked to - their response was that they were on holiday and couldn't be bothered - directly from the crew member who was there.


to all who have participated in this discussion, thanks, it's been an eye opener for me!

lisa

[TYMAN]

Amy...I see the Hal regulars are bashing you again over on the Hal forum. I just gotta laugh at some of the stuff they say. You keep polking, I think their bark is worse than their bite:D Anyway, I still hope you enjoy your Hal cruise...I know I will! Bill

[AmyinVail]

The only fun I've had over on that board was our NON-PC banter! My "wits"! I still LOL when I think about it! Anyway, yes, I keep telling myself to quit putting my neck out there - BUT, not in me to stay silent! I've been trying to observe my toddler as of late, as someone else would, and I don't think I have anything to worry about, she'll be great on the cruise and maybe I won't get too many ugly looks! They're just so darn cranky over there!! thanks for your words of encouragement - I do plan to enjoy my cruise and hope for the best! I look forward to seeing you around, Bill!

[TYMAN]

Amy...Next week on the Wonder! Want to go?? I think they allow kids on the Disney ship..:rolleyes: Anyway, I'll always support ya! (I need some discounts on next year's ski season)! :D

[lauren123]

I agree that Children can be disrespectful, i know, i am one...Although, i'm 16, so my parents do let me out of their sight, i've been brought up to respect everyone, and my parents have my trust, which I don't ever want to loose...But have you ever seen an older person be very loud, drunk or disrepectful, well I have, on many vacations, It's not just children!

[lovemylife]

you're right Lauren, it's much harder to explain why that group of grown-ups is yelling profanity, slurring their words, throwing things, and "sleeping" with their head on their table... my kids are still little, they get it that some parents don't teach their kids to behave properly, but it's much harder to explain that grown-ups sometimes act significantly worse than children.

We have had to leave the pool area of some very nice resorts until management could chase the drunks away....

[shirleygr]

I really wasn't sure I wanted to post to this thread, but here goes. I have 4 children--16 and 12 yo boys and 4 and 2 yo girls. All have been on cruises with me. Sometimes my husband and I cruise with them, sometimes we like to go alone. On our last cruise, a few weeks ago, we left them at camp nana so we could have some adult time. Our cabin on Majesty of the Seas was next to the cabin of three kids (parents had the connecting cabin). Our first morning, we were awakened about 7:30 by the kids banging, shouting, horsing around, etc. After about an hour of this, we went to breakfast and stopped at the purser's desk to lodge a complaint. The parents response was "There's three kids in there, what do you expect?" I expect them to be parents and control their kids. If they are in the next cabin, they can hear what's going on too. We had problems on and off for the rest of the cruise and I have to say I was very disappointed by the parents.
My children have had their own cabin several times, usually across the hall from us, but also next to us and I have never received a complaint, nor heard them acting up (which is unusual for my boys, you should hear them at home :)). But they understand they are on a vacation with many other people and their actions impact others. I have received many compliments on how polite and well-behaved all of my children are and I can tell you it takes a lot of hard work. On our last cruise with the kids, one of the security people came to talk to me about my 16 yo, but it was to thank me for raising him right, as he had stopped some dangerous horseplay by the pool by some other kids the evening before. Boy, was I relieved by the end of that conversation, 'cause with teens, you just never know.
Being "on holiday" does not include parenting. You still need to work as hard as you do at home, but if you do, everyone will reap the rewards.

[Keys2Heaven]

Wow.

Sorry about your experience. There is never, ever an excuse for ill-behavior and VANDALISM. Sure some kids will adopt the "pack" mentality and try to do things that they know don't fly at home. However, did anyone track down the parents?

Even though the cruise line can't "discipline" these kids, why didn't they have a heart-to-heart with the parents, if they knew who was responsible?

I have seen plenty of kids where the parents are content to let everyone around them watch their kids for them. Sounds like this was the rationale.

Even on "holiday", the parents are ultimately responsible. If my kid trashed or vandalised something, I would expect that I would have to pay for it. And to have a 5-year old running around unsupervised is neglectful.

We intend to take our teens on a cruise next year. We are planning something that we know will have "to-do's" just for them.

Just my two cents. Parents that bring children along should either a) watch their children or b) have something planned for them to do as to avoid the problems that the "pack" mentality can generate sometimes.

[seagulls]

Those parents should have cooperated for their own good. As far as the cruiseline is concerned we all know the kids should not have been in the room without an adult. I know everyone does it and the crew turns a blind eye. But because there was a complaint they could have been told either to either split the kids between them in the two cabins or get off at the next port.

[Girlsnightout]

So long as the kids were in a connecting cabin, there does not have to be an adult in the cabin with them, so they weren't breaking any cruiselines rules by being alone in the cabin. Scary, huh?:eek:

[shirleygr]

[quote name='seagulls']Those parents should have cooperated for their own good. As far as the cruiseline is concerned we all know the kids should not have been in the room without an adult. I know everyone does it and the crew turns a blind eye. But because there was a complaint they could have been told either to either split the kids between them in the two cabins or get off at the next port.[/QUOTE]

That was the worst part of this--the parents were in their room while all this noise was being made. I was at the purser's desk when he called to let them know we had lodged a complaint. That's how I know the parents were present in their room and what their response to the complaint was. I'm sure the parents could hear what was going on and apparently made no effort to stop them since over an hour passed while we were in our stateroom getting ready for breakfast, etc and the whole time they were banging the bunks up and down, banging into the walls, screaming and laughing, and generally carrying on. I was just very disappointed in the parents' attitude. I would have been mortified to receive a call like that from the purser's desk--of course I would have curtailed that behavior immediately if they had been my kids. I would not have waited for a call from the purser's desk, or from security.

[lovemylife]

shirley, I'm so sorry your grown up cruise was affected by people who are thoughtless. We also take the time to teach our kids. A vacation is the perfect time to learn that just because you are awake doesn't mean others are, so no yelling, banging, or running in the halls.

Of course, the problem, as it's already been stated, is the people who are taking the time to read a family forum are not the ones who have the issues.

I hope I end up with someone like you guys in the next cabin!!!

As I've mentioned elsewhere, my husband, Mr. Stress:eek:, doesn't handle rude behavior well, and I'm hoping for a smooooth cruise.

Have a great cruise!!!

[samissailing]

[quote name='Girlsnightout']It's generally considered bad form to give unsolicitated parenting advice to complete strangers who probably aren't in need of it, especially when one isn't even a parent. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

Get over it -- who said the unsolicited advice is for you?!!! I'm offended by this post!

[shirleygr]

I hope you have a nice, smooth and lovely cruise, and your husband has a chance to de-stress. Looking forward to our next one with our daughter for her 5th birthday. My two older boys will be staying with their dad and my baby (who will be 3 in March!) is going to stay at camp nana so we can lavish some attention on our Brigid. BTW, the kids next door were annoying but in no way spoiled our cruise. We still enjoyed our adult time, especially laying in the sun on the beach on CocoCay and drinking some icy CocoLocos! It's single digits today in CT--could sure use some of that warm sunshine now!

[Girlsnightout]

Hiya Shirley, I'm not far from you, at least it's warmer today, it's over freezing!

And, ummm, sam, do I know you? I didn't think so. You wouldn't be one of those antibreeders, would you? When are you cruising with your kids?;)

[AmyinVail]

Why in the world would an anti-breeder find the time to post on a FAMILY CRUISING message board is beyond me.

Girlsniteout - I'm in snow and icey cold weather, too! Gee, just can't wait to be onboard my cruise in April with a whole gang of the AB's.....

[Bethwte]

I think everyone is taking this post a bit too personally... it seems to me the only people offended by it, are the parents who needn't read it in the first place. The OP was not complaining about all kids, cooing babies, etc... Maybe it is just because I agree, but I see nothing all that offensive about the post. Isn't part of parenting the responsibility of watching your children? How could reminding people of something practicaly required be offensive? Thats like taking offense to a boss sending you a memo that you should make sure to file your paperwork! That's part of your job! You shouldnt even need to be told, but unfortunately, some do...

The OP wasn't bashing children, more so just saying that parents need to remember that if you bring your children, take care of them! If you want a vacation from the kids, leave them with relatives or something. I have no problem with children on ships, as long as they know how to decently behave... Yes, they will slip up once and a while, again no problem... it does become a problem when there is no discipline by parents for misbehaving on a cruise however...

"That's just my opinion, I could be wrong..." ~ Dennis Miller

[lovemylife]

anti-breeders LOL...

I'm glad you were able to roll with the punches, shirley, and not let the type of people who give the AB's more stuff to crab about ruin your trip!!

It's a balmy 22 in Ohio this evening, so we really don't need all that sun and warm weather we'll get on our cruise. (not!)

I'm sure we'll have a great time, Mom will be along to help out, so we can sneak away to places that only allow adults if we need to. Can't wait!!!

[NewCruiseFan]

Shirley - have a fab time on your cruise. You, like some of the other wonderful parents I met, are among the folks who make each cruise a joy. I met some wonderful parents and wonderful kids, fewer than 10% of the kid population caused issues. Like those who were next to you, they caused unneeded stress and irritation for the rest of us in addition to putting themselves and others in danger.

Again, not bashing all children nor all parents. In fact, just got done making cd's to send off to 5 different parties I met on the cruise with images they'd requested. That includes two parties with fantastic kids and three parties who've never had kids - please understand - not having kids is NOT the same as being anti-breeder.

cheers!

[shirleygr]

Well, it got over the freezing mark today, so all that snow (12+) inches we got last week is finally starting to melt. It felt so good, I was tempted to pull out my shorts and tank top--ok, not really. But at least we had some sunshine!
Thanks for the well wishes. I am looking forward to our upcoming cruise although at this point, May seems a long way away!

[WhansaMi]

It seems to me that many of the posters have missed the OP's point. She wasn't , in my opinion, particularly upset that some kids were misbehaving, she was upset (rightfully so, again, in my opinion) that the parents were abdicating their responsibility for monitoring and modifying the childrens' behavior.

I am a mother of two teens, 14 and 15. I am also a middle school teacher. I'm surrounded by kids all the time! Kids, especially those between the ages of 10 and 16, do not have the brain development to always make good choices. In fact, recent research has shown that children between these ages have significantly more difficulty curbing their impulses and showing restraint than kids older or younger than they. It is a part of the neural development that must occur to get to adulthood. It is linked to the hormonal changes that occur in early adolescence and the development of formal operational thinking. Unfortunately, this is also, I think, the age bracket where, in places like cruise ships, people allow their children to run unsupervised.

Does you say then "Well, kids will be kids," and let them do what they want? Of course not! This is the time they **particularly** need guidance and structure, since they cannot provide it on their own. Of couse, you can't predict behavior, but you can set up the circumstances where poor behavior is less likely. You can set forth specific consequences for poor behavior, and stick to it with *100%* consistency, yes, even if it is inconvienent for you. Unless the child knows with complete certainty the consequence of the behavior will be carried through, you are more likely to have problems.

Too often, people aren't willing to do that. I see people taking their toddlers to adult theme movies, where the child is talking, running up and down the aisles... and they say to themselves, and others, "Do I have to give up movies just because I have kids??". IMO, the answer is a resounding "Yes!". **YOU** made the choice to have kids, not the rest of us. You should be the one "losing out" on something, not the rest of us. There will be plenty of time after the child is older, but, in the meantime, you should not foist the consequences of your choices off on the rest of society. I don't get angry at the toddler for this, but I do become mighty annoyed at the parents.

Sheila

[bplazo]

Sheila,

What a great post. I agree that children should not be allowed in certain places. I liked your example of children in a movie theatre. When you have children you do give up some freedom. When my daughter was younger I never thought about taking a vacation with her. We did day trips to the zoo, amusement parks, etc. It wasnt till she was about seven that I took her to Disney World. She was eleven for her first cruise.

I think that some parents sometimes tune out how their children act. For example, a couple years ago I took my daughter and her friend (14) on a cruise, at the airport and on the way home they were mildly (I thought) arguing with each other. As it happens, their teasing each other annoyed an elderly worman who made a comment how she hoped they wouldnt act that way on the plane. I told the girls to be quiet and my daughter (who can be bratty) mouthed the word "witch" to the woman (at least thats what I keep telling myself she said). Needless to say, I made the girls sit apart and do homework on the way home.

Just because people prefer peace and quiet on a cruise doesnt mean that their anti-breeders. Lets face it, kids are noisy and can be disruptive and if parents (as every one has seen on cruises) ignore the situation it can get out of hand and ruin someones vacation.