Some people are selfish AND insensitive

[Arwenmark]

I don't think either of us - Arwenmark or myself - needs to be taken to task.

 

Our posts were informative and not at all harsh. [but then, your perception is your reality, correct?]

 

We can't be responsible for any perceived insult you or the poster may read into what we've written.

 

I've been on Cruise Critic for years and cannot tell you how many times I've joined in the battle against AB folks booking HC cabins. Some of the good people who post here on the board for disabled travel have alerted the disability community to threads on the subject, and many of us go to post in the hopes of enlightening people.

 

More often than not, the AB people pile on us, saying the ships will lose money by not letting ABs book the HC rooms ... or find some other reason to justify the position. It's amazing, the ignorance out there.

 

So it's not just the AB people bragging about booking HC cabins -- it's also other AB people who defend or even applaud what they're doing.

 

Clearly there is an issue with HC cabins ... has been for years.

 

A newbie should not make assumptions on a situation she has never experienced herself, but rather seek some enlightenment from those who live with disability issues day in and day out.

 

I agree completely with everything you wrote here.

 

I don't want to scare off anyone, but new posters or people new to a situation, in this case her husbands condition would do well to learn not criticize. And I don't believe for a minute that any of us think a MAJORITY of people are doing these things, though the number of insensitive, rude or outright nasty people has increased dramatically. I wonder how much the reality TV mentality enters into that change? But not trying to digress here.

 

I wish her the best and hope she sticks around and learns all she can here, but I think she should open her eyes.

[BarbJ52]

I don't think either of us - Arwenmark or myself - needs to be taken to task.

 

Our posts were informative and not at all harsh. [but then, your perception is your reality, correct?]

 

We can't be responsible for any perceived insult you or the poster may read into what we've written.

 

I've been on Cruise Critic for years and cannot tell you how many times I've joined in the battle against AB folks booking HC cabins. Some of the good people who post here on the board for disabled travel have alerted the disability community to threads on the subject, and many of us go to post in the hopes of enlightening people.

 

More often than not, the AB people pile on us, saying the ships will lose money by not letting ABs book the HC rooms ... or find some other reason to justify the position. It's amazing, the ignorance out there.

 

So it's not just the AB people bragging about booking HC cabins -- it's also other AB people who defend or even applaud what they're doing.

 

Clearly there is an issue with HC cabins ... has been for years.

 

A newbie should not make assumptions on a situation she has never experienced herself, but rather seek some enlightenment from those who live with disability issues day in and day out.

 

Again, an example of perception being reality. Was it my intent to take you to task? No. Was I insulted by your responses? - absolutely not. Did I think that they were a tad harsh? Maybe so - especially since you were responding to someone new to the issue and new to this forum. Just my perspective as someone that was new to these boards and these issue only a couple of years ago.

 

Do I think you fight the good battle? Absolutely. I've seen your efforts here. I know there's a battle to be fought and I know that you and Arwenmark work hard to bring awareness here on these boards - an awareness that is sometimes, at the very least, underappreciated. But for those of us who need this forum, your advice and efforts are invaluable and I thank you.

[kasfun]

a group of us travel with special needs adults. there is usually 4 moms and 4 adult special needs people. we have never booked a special needs room even though we have moms and adults who have had knees replaced, hips replaced and heart conditions. we have never asked for a hc room even though I am sure we would qualify. the idea that people want a bigger shower or any other idiotic need is insulting. we are planning this year to ask another two to go with us and the mom has MS and uses a scooter. to think they will not be able to come because someone has a husband who is tall is heartbreaking. I hope people who dothis receive the karma they deserve.

[kitty9]

klauer, you'd be shocked by how many people who scuba dive on their cruises book the HC cabins to accommodate their stuff. It's very well known in the dive community that booking an HC cabin is just generally done without any problem from the cruise line.

[PennyAgain]

Darcie, bikes, scuba gear, overweight people and people who just want more space.

 

So true!

 

Just for the record, I do not book an HC cabin for myself as I am used to getting around by my own methods in a standard room. In my case, smaller is better so far as safety and comfort are concerned.

 

One of my neighbors did an RCL cruise to Alaska in August and badly needed an HC room but couldn't get one. She couldn't take a scooter as it wouldn't fit through the standard door. Her opinion is that she won't cruise again. She took her whole family on this farewell to cruise travel trip.

 

She is 58 years old!

 

How sad!

[rangeley]

I wish they would make a place for scooters. We have met many people that use scooters and alot say they really do not need a HC room except to fit the scooter. Some just use them because they can't walk long distances, and can get along fine in a regular room.

[Oceanwench]

I wish they would make a place for scooters. We have met many people that use scooters and alot say they really do not need a HC room except to fit the scooter. Some just use them because they can't walk long distances, and can get along fine in a regular room.

 

Very good point! I agree, it would be great if they did have a parking spot for scooters! Although I have to say, I have seen some parked in the halls on HAL.

[Near the elevators]

 

DH is in a power wheelchair and cannot walk, so he needs a HC cabin with its wider doorways, accessible bathroom, roll-in shower, etc.

 

PennyAgain: I once read someone's defense for getting a HC cabin -- her husband was very tall! Could not believe it!

 

Sorry to hear of your neighbor's plight.

We often wonder if our cruising days will come to an end when we just can't find a HC cabin on our top 10 choices!

[rangeley]

Very good point! I agree, it would be great if they did have a parking spot for scooters! Although I have to say, I have seen some parked in the halls on HAL.

[Near the elevators]

 

DH is in a power wheelchair and cannot walk, so he needs a HC cabin with its wider doorways, accessible bathroom, roll-in shower, etc.

 

PennyAgain: I once read someone's defense for getting a HC cabin -- her husband was very tall! Could not believe it!

 

Sorry to hear of your neighbor's plight.

We often wonder if our cruising days will come to an end when we just can't find a HC cabin on our top 10 choices!

 

My fiance is a quad, and needs the bigger room for the wheelchair. I was the one who wrote about the tall friend. I would just like to add that those rooms are made bigger for a reason..a wheelchair. Some people just need grab bars in the bathroom but have to get a HC cabin because regular cabins don't have them. To bad they can't figure out somehing for that.

[Arwenmark]

Making standard rooms more accessible is NOT a priority for the cruiseline and this is a BIG mistake because it is a primarily aging population that cruises the most. Universal design should be part of all the cruise ships that have been launched in at least the last ten years, but it has not been and still isn't if you look at the newest ships.

 

As for the parking for scooter, problems I see, How far would said parking be from where you happen to have your cabin? Is there going to be security posted there so only the only can retrieve, sit on, mess with etc. said scooters, and it is currently again Coast Guard regulations to have them anywhere in halls or near elevator/stairs so they would need an entirely separate place and one on each floor and that comes back to the first point of how far is it.

[belle836]

In my state (Louisiana) if you have a HC hang tag or a HC license plate you are also issued a plastic ID card which looks similar to a drivers license. It has my HC tag number etc., along with the tag expiration date.

 

If the cruise lines would ask for a copy of these ID cards (they have your picture on them) when asking for a HC room then the determination could be made during the reservation process. Ergo, problem solved.

 

As for being tall qualifying for a HC cabin that's just plain (insert your own comparison here).

[Quampapetet]

My fiance is a quad, and needs the bigger room for the wheelchair. I was the one who wrote about the tall friend. I would just like to add that those rooms are made bigger for a reason..a wheelchair. Some people just need grab bars in the bathroom but have to get a HC cabin because regular cabins don't have them. To bad they can't figure out somehing for that.

 

Carnival has "modified" cabins, which aren't accessible for a wheelchair user, but I believe they have the bars in the bathroom and such. I think that is a good idea. All cruise ships should have a bunch of those, if not have bars in every bathroom (hey, it'll also help the able-bodied pee during rough seas! LOL).

[Arwenmark]

In my state (Louisiana) if you have a HC hang tag or a HC license plate you are also issued a plastic ID card which looks similar to a drivers license. It has my HC tag number etc., along with the tag expiration date.

 

If the cruise lines would ask for a copy of these ID cards (they have your picture on them) when asking for a HC room then the determination could be made during the reservation process. Ergo, problem solved.

 

As for being tall qualifying for a HC cabin that's just plain (insert your own comparison here).

 

As mentioned many times there are limits on what the cruiseline can require. In your case that would not help the majority of people who do not get issued such cards from their state. ALSO not everyone who may legitimately need a cabin has a Parking placard.

 

My actual parking placard has my picture and name on it in my state of MA. and it will be in my car. yes I can bring a photocopy but that is beside the point. They could not require you to send in a photocopy of your parking placard or application for it or anything of the sort. It simply would violate several layers of laws. and as I say would not apply to everyone equally either.

[katisdale]

As I have "progressed" with my walking problems I have continued to wonder why ships are not constructed with "universal design" concepts integrated. I know what I need - a wide door for the scooter, a no-step entrance to the bath (and balcony if we choose that category), and a shower chair. Years ago we took a cruise on the old crown princess that met all those requirements except for the step into the bathroom in a standard cabin. Back then I didn't use the canes, rollator nor scooter that have come with the additional years. Now if I cannot get an accessible room I cannot cruise even though I can still walk perhaps a 100 steps with a rollator. Without a no step access to the bathroom I just can't get where I need to go.

[sredheada]

AB's who book HC cabins often say they will gladly move if someone HC'd needs the room. Wrong.....

 

I am booked on a cruise on NCL. I am confined to a wheelchair. When I booked 1 year in advance I got the last HC cabin available which was an obstructed view. I wanted a HC balcony but was told not available. After FP I decided to call my PVP to see if there were any cancellations for a HC balcony cabin which is what I had really wanted all along. PVP said no cancellations but she would call AB people in HC balcony cabins and ask if they would move. There are 8 HC balcony cabins. PVP said 2 had people who needed them the other 6 were AB. She called all 6. Asking if they would release the room for someone who needed it. They all refused. Some booked them purposely to get extra room and others didn't care that someone disabled needed it. My PVP, who has a HC son, was amazed at how selfish and rude these people were. She said the NCL agents are supposed to tell them at booking that if a handicapped person needs the cabin they may be moved but that is easily forgotten. It is ultimately up to the person in the cabin.

 

They were all offered cabins in the same category or better but still all refused. Gee, if I got that kind of call I wouldn't be able to sail in the cabin knowing someone needed it. I would feel guilty beyond belief. It is so sad to see what our world is coming to.

 

Just venting.

 

Helen

[Moeve]

While this won't help you many AB are just now aware of the kinds of problems many HC come up against. Unless they read on a site like this (but in all fairness unless they have a reason they are not going to look at this particluar part of the site) they simply don't know.

 

I only started looking a different features more particularly since I have 2 HC clients and started reading here because I had become more aware to the fact that these people need to plan their cruises more intently to make sure there are no hitches and that what could well be their last vacation ends up being a very memorable one.

 

The majority (Ok I am sure there are still a few bad apples out there) don't really set out to make your lives difficult - it is just unawarness. Yes the more we talk and the more we explain to people the more will understand. However we have to be careful in which way we do it. Putting them on the offensive won't help and making them feel like something from under your shoe infront of others will only make the problem worse.

[PennyAgain]

AB's who book HC cabins often say they will gladly move if someone HC'd needs the room. Wrong.....

 

I am booked on a cruise on NCL. I am confined to a wheelchair. When I booked 1 year in advance I got the last HC cabin available which was an obstructed view. I wanted a HC balcony but was told not available. After FP I decided to call my PVP to see if there were any cancellations for a HC balcony cabin which is what I had really wanted all along. PVP said no cancellations but she would call AB people in HC balcony cabins and ask if they would move. There are 8 HC balcony cabins. PVP said 2 had people who needed them the other 6 were AB. She called all 6. Asking if they would release the room for someone who needed it. They all refused. Some booked them purposely to get extra room and others didn't care that someone disabled needed it. My PVP, who has a HC son, was amazed at how selfish and rude these people were. She said the NCL agents are supposed to tell them at booking that if a handicapped person needs the cabin they may be moved but that is easily forgotten. It is ultimately up to the person in the cabin.

 

They were all offered cabins in the same category or better but still all refused. Gee, if I got that kind of call I wouldn't be able to sail in the cabin knowing someone needed it. I would feel guilty beyond belief. It is so sad to see what our world is coming to.

 

Just venting.

 

Helen

 

I'm glad that you are able to vent here.

 

I spend many nights a year in hotels. Nearly every major chair offers on the WEB site when booking the option of booking an HC room no questions asked.

 

Although a walk in shower is MUCH easier for me to use, I don't book the HC rooms because I know that they all may be needed by people who have no options. I was given (without asking for it) an HC room at one of the Hyatt hotels at DFW. When I telephoned the desk I was told that the hotel was full. It was that or no room at all for me.

 

The room was a fake HC room as it had a standard tub and shower.

 

We need to keep working on this.

[Jesscap5]

Darcie, bikes, scuba gear, overweight people and people who just want more space.

 

 

This CAN be a disability depending on how large the person is and /or have problems because of their weight.

[Arwenmark]

This CAN be a disability depending on how large the person is and /or have problems because of their weight.

 

You are absolutely right but it is still a can of worms. The thing WE have to remember is that it is not up to US to decide who IS and IS NOT disabled or in need of an HC cabin.

 

I really hate it when those on this particular forum start telling each other they are not as disabled or in need of whatever. It is bad enough that the Able Bodied feel qualified to comment or to ask us "What's the matter with you?"

 

Certainly many severely overweight people have medical problems and which caused the other is not always clear or even matters.

But how often do you see, "well if you just stop eating it will take care of your problems"

 

LOL yeah I suppose if you stop eating it WOULD, or stop breathing. Point it there are all kinds of VALID reasons a person might need a HC cabin.

[Jesscap5]

You are absolutely right but it is still a can of worms. The thing WE have to remember is that it is not up to US to decide who IS and IS NOT disabled or in need of an HC cabin.

 

I really hate it when those on this particular forum start telling each other they are not as disabled or in need of whatever. It is bad enough that the Able Bodied feel qualified to comment or to ask us "What's the matter with you?"

 

Certainly many severely overweight people have medical problems and which caused the other is not always clear or even matters.

But how often do you see, "well if you just stop eating it will take care of your problems"

 

LOL yeah I suppose if you stop eating it WOULD, or stop breathing. Point it there are all kinds of VALID reasons a person might need a HC cabin.

 

 

I understand what you are saying but being morbidly obese and or with comorbidities has nothing to do with getting a HC cabin for space..such as scuba gear :rolleyes:

 

I think it would be up to a health professional to decide if the person were truly handicap. If someone needs the HC because of any physical kind of disability prevents them from getting a regular cabin then I think they should try to get a HC.

 

Pretty much anything is a can of worms these days....

[Arwenmark]

I agree the booking for space issue is invalid whether for bikes, scuba gear, children or any non physical issue.

I was responding to the Overweight comment, people not booking HC cabins because they are overweight.

 

The can of worms I was referring to is when we here who deal with these issues everyday start deciding which person is sufficiently disabled in our own evaluation to "qualify".

[Jesscap5]

I don't find it a matter of deciding when it's obvious some issues are just a matter of fact.

[Arwenmark]

I don't find it a matter of deciding when it's obvious some issues are just a matter of fact.

 

I don't understand what your point is in this post, I agreed with you about overweight being an issue. What I was saying is that many people would take exception to that, they shouldn't, but they would.

and I have seen on these boards in the past topics related to HC issues where the Disabled or whichever Politically correct term you choose, start taking swipes at one another over things like you use crutches or a walker, so you don't NEED a HC cabin etc.

 

Basically people making assumptions about other peoples conditions. These are the same things we condemn in AB's that post about "fat people" on scooters or rude WC guests etc.

 

I agree many things are obvious, others should be, but seem not to be. I beleive we are in agreement here.

[Jesscap5]

I don't understand what your point is in this post, I agreed with you about overweight being an issue. What I was saying is that many people would take exception to that, they shouldn't, but they would.

and I have seen on these boards in the past topics related to HC issues where the Disabled or whichever Politically correct term you choose, start taking swipes at one another over things like you use crutches or a walker, so you don't NEED a HC cabin etc.

 

Basically people making assumptions about other peoples conditions. These are the same things we condemn in AB's that post about "fat people" on scooters or rude WC guests etc.

 

I agree many things are obvious, others should be, but seem not to be. I beleive we are in agreement here.

 

 

Ok..I thought you were talking about me making an assumption or something.

 

I know that people say rude things and blurt out there opinions which we know are wrong half the time more or less. I don't care what other people say because I know I'm right. :D lol

 

I am overweight..I wouldn't book a HC cabin for myself unless I couldn't get through the door or had trouble in the bathroom...

 

I usually don't say anything unless it's something I feel strong about and that usually is weight and physically and mentally disabled people and that's because I've had strong experiences with both. Does that make sense? I know half the time I dont. lol

[Harleycat]

I know for fact there are many people out there that utilize the HC parking spaces without a real need. I see them all the time (jumping out of their big-arse pickup truck and jogging to their destination, etc.). I know there are people out there that will scheme and scam their way to a bigger/better/front row...whatever...I just find it rude and insensitive to do so.

 

Just because someone has a "big arse" pickup truck does not mean they are not disabled. I am disabled and I drive a big arse pick up, a Ford F150 King Ranch. It is actually easier for me to get in and out of that than a standard sedan since it has handles and a running board.

 

I have had 7 operations on my legs and am scheduled for my 8th in January. For the record, I don't need an accessible room and I don't book one but don't assume someone is not disabled because of the vehicle they drive.

[PennyAgain]

or where I live where someone who does NOT drive a big pick up truck is the odd person.

 

The bottom line on all this is that a fair system of distribution of HC cabins needs to be established so that each person has the right and the time to make an intelligent decision.

 

As it is now the number of people trying to get one of the few HC cabins makes for unnecessary tension and suffering.

 

It is also true that if in all new build ships some upgrades and modifications to the plans were made that would beneift a large percentage of the population, the true HC cabins might go to those who really need them.

 

Doors wide enough for scooters and grab bars in the bathrooms would be a fine start.