What's causing bad behavior on cruise ships?

[Fredr]

RetireeWannabe,

 

Yikes, you are only 44! Given how well you write and your always interesting comments/recommendations, I thought that you were at least 45.

 

I am considerably older than the Gen Xers. And frankly you cannot judge people by what they look like. I am sure that many of us would agree that some of the worst crooks in recent American history have been wearing some very expensive clothes (Bernard Madoff, Richard Scruggs, Jeffrey Skilling et al).

 

And...how many of you out there have grandfathers or fathers who served in the military and at age 18 or 19, got tatooes? Surely we are not going to judge what has been called America's greatest generation by their...tatooes?

[RetireeWannabee]

Thank you, Fred! I am wise beyond my years, all the way up to 45! hee hee, thank you, that was fun.

 

I'm simply "an old soul", raised by traditional (old-fashioned?) parents who didn't give a crap what everyone else was doing (hated it then, thankful for it now). "Mom's People" were extremely prim and proper. Her aunts scared the hell out of me since I was more a tomboy than "proper young lady" and I tended to not be quite what they wanted me to be and they let me know it (sometimes a confusing surprise to me). Putting bows in my hair and a frilly dress on me didn't make me ladylike any more than tattooing my forehead would make me a violent person (well, after the struggle to hold me down to do that tat).

 

Happy to have learned that lesson early and firsthand: appearances don't mean crap. Plenty of con men "don't look the sort."

 

I think by "tattoo generation" we might be referring to those that embrace it as Body Art/self-expression vs the military bonding rituals. I really do think there is a major difference.

 

I think the *militarily-tatted* place great meaning on each and every tat (just thinking of the circumstances, scary, rely on this guy you never met to cover you, might not see home again, ... Serious Stuff) while the non-mils just Get Them because they want one, no deep meaning, just putting them on like permanent accessories.

 

apologize for 'no deep meaning' comment to those of you that have very significant reasons for your tats. just comparing to war-time tatting as sort of symbolic brotherhood.

 

When my stepdaughter's boyfriend came over with a pierced tongue and big letters on his shins, it kinda freaked me out (I don't remember what the "shin art" said, wish I did, as I thought it was plain stupid, but, his shins, whatever...)

 

They had pierced eyebrows and were well ahead of the trend. She was 18 or 19 then, so plenty of time has passed; this kind of thing is way more frequent now. They didn't understand why people treated them different, and we had to explain, hey, you look different, people might think you are scary - people do judge by looks (unfortunately). Sweet kids, being artsy and at that time, misunderstood, labelled as freaks.

 

I'm glad they broke up, actually, because he was running out of free space on his own body and I feared she would be his next canvas. she has 3, small and tasteful. glad it stopped there!!!

 

to each his own, but, yuck, not for me. and OW, why do I wanna do that?? I plan on living to damn near 100 and I sure as hell don't want someone's nasty sagging art on my taught skin past, oh, 80 or so... I'll keep art on the wall as that is where it belongs For Me.

[Monkeythyme]

If the cruise lines actually want to modify behavior for the better, they might try asking their comedians to help. I have learned that when doing comedy I can address issues that would raise hackles were I to do it in a serious mood. One of my favorite truisms has become "Only comedians can tell the truth and get away with it in today's politically correct world."

Do some jokes about boorish behavior and some of the jerks might begin to see themselves as others see them.

[catergirl]

No, they would just think 'they' are funny, not rude:rolleyes: or 'they' would not recognise themselves in the joke!

[G'ma]

I think if they'd return cruising to a more formal event, with dress codes, formal nights and requirements after, say, 600PM, it would improve conduct.

 

Firstly, the cruise wouldn't attract that group of people who think a cruise is a summer camp.... Those that did cruise would be more likely to watch what they are doing.

 

Secondly, they need to ENFORCE their policy on not bringing alcoholic beverages onboard......scan every suitcase, confiscate contraband in the cabins, etc. They also need their bartenders to disable the cards of someone who is obviously drunk.....just like land-based bars and lounges do. Bar owners are responsible for serving drunks ashore; why not asea?

 

Sure, they might lose some business....but, the small minority who do this won't become a problem onboard, will they? The rest of us won't miss them, for sure.

 

They also need to ENFORCE those rules already in place.....no saving lounge chairs, no kids in the hot tubs, smoking ONLY in designated smoking areas, saving seats in the lounges, bars, etc.

 

We are each ultimately responsible for our own behavior. However, there is that segment of our population who believe they are somehow exempt from the rules; that rules only apply to the rest of us. They feel quite free to ignore those they don't like.

 

Those are the folks who need to have the rules reinforced.....regularly.

[luddite]

If the cruise lines actually want to modify behavior for the better, they might try asking their comedians to help. I have learned that when doing comedy I can address issues that would raise hackles were I to do it in a serious mood. One of my favorite truisms has become "Only comedians can tell the truth and get away with it in today's politically correct world."

Do some jokes about boorish behavior and some of the jerks might begin to see themselves as others see them.

 

Nope. They are too self-absorbed to notice anything. Or they'd storm the stage and demand an apology. Or show you their ink.

[Gablin]

On my first cruise ever, back in 1983, one night there were young men in various stages of undress, drunk, chasing each other around the decks with cans of whipped cream. No one did anything about them. Up on the deck with a pool, there was a wet t-shirt contest one evening, where beer was used to wet the shirts.

 

It took a while to get me on a cruise ship again.

 

Today, I see rude behavior in a lot of places, and there seems to be nothing to be done about it. Simple good manners such as staying to the right on a sidewalk, holding a door open for someone burdened with packages or less able, saying "please" and "thank you" are missing.

 

I do believe that people behave better when they are dressed nicely and are not permitted to wear their ball caps indoors. When beer is served in glasses instead of cans, when napkins are provided with snacks, when barefeet are not permitted in eating places, good manners are more likely.

 

The worst behavior (other than criminal) I ever saw in this century on a ship was a young woman who sat on the floor in the Windjammer casual restaurant and trimmed her toenails on the last morning before leaving the ship. Even my teenage grandchildren looked away.

 

Thanks for letting an old lady "rant."

[marshhawk]

After reading the major article about this I too have decided it's a many way street. Lowering prices does allow for lower income families to travel, but that doesn't mean that lower income families have less manners. From past experience, it's the rich kids who feel more entitled to everything, that are so rude. I do think that in both travel, business and education, dress up and you change your attitude. Now you can read what I say and disagree, but alot of people pay good money in seminars, just to hear the following, Dress up, and you will change your attitide. Fake it til you make it. Put on a smile and the world will change.

[Fighting34th]

While low fares and drinking may be largely responsible, there is NO REASON why the staff of ANY cruise ship should allow poor behavior. If the dress code says dressy casual, I do not believe that the staff should allow men into the dining room with sleeveless T-shirts. Why should the overwhelming majority of appropriately dressed people have to look into some guy's hairy armpit while trying to enjoy a nice meal. The staff should simply refuse entry. Security should be close-by to handle anything if necessary. Bartenders and waiters should serve those they know have had too much to drink, a cup of coffee "on the house." If the passenger causes a fuss, call security. Security personnel should enforce the "no hogging deck chairs" rule. If a drunk abuses a security guard, escort them to their room. If they repeat their misbehavior, escort them from the ship. This should be part of the contract to protect the cruise line, the staff and to make cruising enjoyable for the 95+% who want a nice experience and follow the "rules." I'm increasingly seeing posts (including one of my own) saying that we're going to try a slightly more upscale line, giving cruising one more (or in our case, two more, chance(s), and will stop cruising if the experience doesn't improve. I've also seen posts saying "We've had it -- no more cruises." The cruise industry should wise up to this trend or they're going to keep the 2-5% who abuse the rules, and lose 20% or more of us who "...ARE MAD AS HELL, AND NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE!"

In short, this is a plea to the cruise lines to simply enforce your codes of conduct, dress, etc.

[Guest TropicOne]

Very sad how so many still equate a persons income level and attire with their behavior. I do not wear suits and do wear hats yet the majority of people who know me always comment on how I am always a gentleman and good person.

[Caribbean Sunsets]

Very sad how so many still equate a persons income level and attire with their behavior.

 

Well said!

[RetireeWannabee]

And I assume you remove your hat for the national anthem - so many do not! Next ballgame you watch, pay attention to the crowd during the anthem.

 

There is one man at work that is part of our lunch crowd and he always stands when a lady arrives or stands to leave. First couple times, I didn't know what he was doing, as this is something that fell by the wayside many years ago and not something I'm accustomed to. None of the other men do it, but he keeps on.

 

Some men, even Young Men, still hold doors for ladies, and some have a hard time letting me hold it for them when their hands are full. It amuses me when a man under 30 finds it wrong to enter first, even tho as a practical matter, they should in that instance. Gives me hope.

[Single Cruiser]

I have to disagree with some peoples comments on dress code and informal dress code causing problems. I've spent over 2months in the last 5 years onboard Ocean Village ships (which have no dress code) and have not seen any instance of bad behaviour.

 

The problem is, and I think what has been sadly demonstrated by some comments in this thread is one of certain people equating dress code or personal appearance to level of behaviour. There's a word for that, oh yeah, sterotype!

 

Just because someone has piercings, or a tattoo or maybe a shaven head does not mean they are some sort of thug.

 

The problem seems to occur on the lines who try and cater for both traditional and modern cruising.

 

There is insufficient new customers who prefer formal dressing to fill the increasing fleet size, so the brands have opened up and started making changes, like flexible dining, relaxing some dress codes.

 

Now take the following examples - If you go to see a Ballet you don't expect to see drunken, or loud behaviour. If you go to a sporting match - football/soccer you expect a bit more jovial - some drinks, some hot dogs and a more social atmosphere.

 

So the informal cruise lines people have an expectation and no one needs to dress up.

 

Take a formal line such as Cunard (do you reckon they get many instances of bad behaviour?) - again people have an expectation of what it will be like.

 

Now take a cruise line that has adopted a middle line approach. Some expect child-free, formal, traditional, others expect social child friendly, informal. And as with society you get difference of opinions. The well documented "xmas cruise on Ventura" highlights this, whilst probably minor and blown out of proportion you have a previous fairly traditional line P&O with a bigger than usual ship. This one they have tried to encourage more families and more choices, after some people had booked they suddenly dropped semi-formal nights to which some traditionalists deemed as a "dumbing down".

 

Now what expectations do you set for this ship - a trip to the Ballet or a trip to a social sporting event? It just takes one person to maybe complain that a family are not keeping their kids quiet or in order to spark a argument.

 

Again these ships then try and accommodate all by introducing onboard "adult-only" areas, formal and informal dining choices. You get a couple who have just had a quiet traditional 5-course meal dressed up in their Tux/best dress then enter a bar where a few friends have been watching a sporting match on the big screens and a few beers.

 

Now you could go to the extremes and revert back to a "Titanic era" of different classes, those who want to dine do so with the waiters upstairs, while those who want a drink and a dance to some loud music do so downstairs? :eek:

 

Which would be a sad affair for society..

 

For myself, now Carnival have decided to axe their best performing (customer satisfaction ratings) UK brand Ocean Village and sent a letter to all OV customers saying the nearest ship in the fleet was P&O's Ventura.

 

Hmm one has no dress code, mainly buffet restaurants and won cruise critics best family cruiseline award, the other still has ship-wide formal nights, in mainly waitered restaurants, two nights a week!

 

For one generation of cruisers its the atmosphere of fine wine and dining, dressing up and watching what other people are wearing, being waitered on and pampered. For another generation, cruising is an excellent floating hotel allowing for all the benefits of a traditional inclusive package holiday with flights/food/accommodation/entertainment/pools but not stuck in one location and to visit many destinations and only unpack once!

[circusmidget]

We have been on almost 40 cruises and how things have changed.

 

We noticed a difference in behaviour when Anytime Dining and when Norwegian brought in the Casual Clothing - all the time if you wanted it.

 

There was something about Casual, SEMI-FORMAL (not smart casual) and Formal evenings. It meant something.

 

Now, you see shorts in the dining room next to someone who is wearing a tux. And does the Maitre D enforce it - NO - because some passenger might get ticked off and cut his tips. No one enforces anything.

 

I don't understand- if you are on a cruise, why would you want to deal with the hassle of packing a tux or a suit? I just got off a nice Oceania Cruise, where we were in a different port everyday. When I am on vacation, the last thing in the world I want to do is wear a tie and coat. Feels like I am back at work or at a job interview. I abided by the dress code, but if you are of the older generation and went through the unneed hassle of packing a suit to the other side of the world, who cares if people are wearing cargo shorts! Everyone is on vacation. Now I suppose if these were the 60's, everyone would be wearing a suit. You never see Don Draper in "Mad Men" wearing anything but a shirt and tie even at home for dinner!!!

[Single Cruiser]

Very sad how so many still equate a persons income level and attire with their behavior. I do not wear suits and do wear hats yet the majority of people who know me always comment on how I am always a gentleman and good person.

 

Yes well said.

[Maraprince]

Are incidents of rude and inappropriate behavior on the rise -- or is it just media hype as cruising becomes more popular in the face of lower fares?

 

Cruisers in the U.K. are rumbling about an influx of troublemakers (or "chavs," for the Brits) attracted by low prices, according to a feature on Times Online this week. Last week, Carnival Corp. CEO Micky Arison was pushed in an interview with the BBC's Jeremy Vine to defend falling standards as Vine dredged up a much-publicized brawl on P&O's Ventura last Christmas. Meanwhile, in the U.S., six Carnival passengers were recently arrested following a headline-grabbing punch-up with a taxi driver. And then, of course, there are mutinies... (Read our full stories on the topic -- from both U.S. and U.K. perspectives!)

 

Do you think low fares have anything to do with the influx of badly behaved passengers? Or are scandals here to stay as more and more people take to cruising? Vote in our poll -- but be sure to also post your opinion and stories (and tell us where you're from)!

 

I seriously believe that a large part of the problem is that the cruise lines are bending over backwards to attract the first time cruiser who for whatever reason believes that proper conduct does not apply to them. By relaxing the dress code standards the cruise experience is seriously diluted. Passengers feel (rightly or wrongly) if they are in casual dress, proper rules of conduct don't apply.

 

A lot of the mystique of a cruise is gone. The first time passengers are paying very low prices, have no idea of what to expect on a cruise, treat is a if it is still a land-based vacation to a local motel with no rules to be observed or enforced.

 

Meanwhile, the cruise lines choose to ignore improper behavior or taking the relaxed dress code a step too far for fear of offending the first time cruiser. Flips flops are allowed, shorts and jeans are worn even on "elegant" nights and can be justified since the passenger didn't eat in the main dining room. Running through the decks, pushing all the elevator buttons, behaving like a moron and talking as loud as possible, using foul language, getting drunk, etc. is all fine since no one will confront the behavior. As a result of this indifference, the cruise experience is just another ho hum vacation with unlimited food, someone to clean up after you (no tips required), and a full-time party atmosphere. No regard is given to infringing upon the rights of other passengers since the mentality is "I paid for it so therefore, I am d___ well going to eat everything in sight. Who cares how I dress or behave. I will never see these people again. No one can tell me what to do and how to behave with my own money. Staff is there to wait on me hand and foot and I don't have to be nice to them or tip them -- it's their job and they aren't in the same "class" as me. All of my sense of right or wrong was left at the pier I can do what I want and behave however I choose since there is no one going to stop me."

 

I realize that the cruise lines need to attract passengers to fill up the larger and larger ships coming onto the market to make a profit for their shareholders. But some of the lines have pushed repeat passengers aside to the bottom of the list in favor of "new" blood. The "new" blood is coming on at rock bottom prices, not tipping, not spending much if anything on board and doesn't care about anything but their own pleasure. These lines so quickly forget that it was their repeat passenger base that led them to grow to the size they are today and expand into other markets. Some of the lines have across the ocean to attract new clients and abandoned their repeat passengers in North America only to find that the Europeans do not spend as much money on board period.

 

With the economy in the pits, the lines should be encouraging more local homeport sailings and they are not. Who wants to fly to Europe, have to deal with the poor exchange rate of Euros vs. dollars, not be able to buy much if anything in the ports, have to book ship tours since most if not all of the ports are 2-3 hours out from the main cities. Add in airfare and airline fees, pre or post hotel stays it gets to be way too costly. When it costs someone from Canada more to fly into NY or NJ than it costs for the price of the cruise itself, the cruise lines should take heed not to price themselves out of the market. Ship tours eat up a lot of money and are not always a good value for their cost.

 

Both the passengers and the cruise lines are to blame for the bad behavior being shown on today's ships.

 

 

MARAPRINCE

[Leonid]

Formal nights may or may not solve the problem. Having completed 34 cruises on 8 different lines, I have never observed most of the behavior cited. On HAL & Princess, we did notice the tendency to reserve deck chairs even though they were not used for hours.

DW & I now prefer Oceania because of the "country club casual" attire -no formal nights or even a sports coat. After 5 cruises, we have never experienced any of the behavior mentioned. I believe that most of the Oceania pax. enjoy the "no formal night" routine.

[RetireeWannabee]

For one generation of cruisers its the atmosphere of fine wine and dining, dressing up and watching what other people are wearing, being waitered on and pampered. For another generation, cruising is an excellent floating hotel allowing for all the benefits of a traditional inclusive package holiday with flights/food/accommodation/entertainment/pools but not stuck in one location and to visit many destinations and only unpack once!

nutshelled right there.

[THEWIFE]

Each person who pays his cruise fare seems to feel that certain things are "coming" to them. While it is true that certain things are, they haven't realized yet that they can get them without being rude about it; for example, a lounge doesn't have to be reserved for their personal convenience. If everyone would just take a lounge AS NEEDED, there would never be a shortage. If people did not break in line at the buffets, they would eventually get their share of food, anyway.

 

It is not the class of people that can now afford to cruise due to the recent, lower rates. It is that fact that we now live in an "All About Me" society where everyone wants it, and wants it now!!!

 

Not having grown up in a wealthy household, we were all taught manners at home, as well as respecting others. I've met many, many people with enough money to buy their own boats, and yet they know no social graces. A fungus is still a fungus regardless of where it grows!

[mgasparro1]

My personal experiences with "misbehaved" passengers, in my opinion, are a result of the person's upbringing. Whether is it someone's "custom", "culture" or "upbringing", I consider it DOWN RIGHT RUDE!! It angers me so much that I have seen it on all of my cruises (however, I do not allow it to ruin my cruise, EVER! lol) Certain individuals, that maybe feel as though they are better than us that have been waiting in line for 15 minutes, will come right up, reach across you and grab things from the buffet! Nevermind that they just leaned all over your food and probably dropped something on it along the way! I once had a large group (family) sitting together on the lido and across from me. Well, when additional family members came along and there was no longer room, a lady felt that it was ok to slide right in next to me (on the bench)...LITERALLY..she banged right in to me, sat on my napkin and plopped her tray down! I was appalled! She never asked if it was ok! And one last example. A lady sitting with other family members was done eating and decided that she didnt want the trash in front of her, so she leaned over and plopped her tray on my table!!!! While we were still eating! In all cases, I did stoop and express my anger, but I did not curse or call them names, just ""pleasantly" let them know that it was down right rude!! So, I guess if people are used to things a certain way, whereever they may come from, you cannot change it. My mom always drilled in to my head to treat people the way you would like to be treated. But I think that it is important that we let rude people know that they are being rude and hopefully they will be more considerate in the future to their fellow passengers.

[AriesMoon]

As a newbie cruiser, I simply don't understand this debate. It took me about one day on the internet to establish that there are different classes of cruise lines that cater to entirely different crowds. For example, if your idea of cruise entertainment is an enrichment lecture by an esteemed professor on the latest global economic trends, then the value line featuring a poolside hairy chest contest might not be right for you. And if your idea of vacation includes nothing but flip flops and seeing how many umbrellas you can collect from the daily drink specials, then the more genteel lines may be the wrong way to go.

 

Who says cruising can (or should) only be done one way? That's the beauty of the free market, folks... do your research and pick the niche that's right for you.

 

This ongoing argument between Group 1 (folks who think their righteous claim on cruising has been usurped by the unwashed masses) and Group 2 (folks who insist cruise lines should cater to the lowest common denominator) is just plain silly.

[mousey]

It seems to me that manners/courtesy are no longer important to the general population on or off ships. Many people are so self-absorbed they think rules don't apply to them anywhere. I see so much rude behavior that courtesy stands out more because it's so rare.

 

I totally agree! I don't think lower fares equals out to a lower class of people. My family is one of those that can only afford to cruise because we only book inside cabins and don't spend money on a lot of frills, other than excursions, that we save up for. We have proper manners and always treat the crew like new or old friends. Low fares are not an excuse for misbehaving. It all boils down to how people are taught and raised, and with children, how they are supervised. We have never allowed our DS to run wild on a ship or to treat anyone rude in any way! It is just not acceptable. Our DS is now 14 and he has been cruising with us since he was 5. He has proven to us over the years that he is a very responsible kid (as much as a 14 yr. old can be responsible - he's not perfect). On our last spring break cruise when he skipped dinner with us to have dinner with his friends in the buffet, our waiter and beverage person missed him and asked where he was. They really liked him a lot.

 

I think there are just a lot of people today that think they are entitled to whatever they want, whenever they want. I believe it is how they were brought up. This is just IMHO.:)

[groinky]

I agree with the poster who said that the cruise lines put up with far too much of this. If this behavior occured in a restaurant (drunk, loud, rude, kids not monitored etc) they'd be thrown out on the sidewalk pronto. The casinos are VERY strict about not allowing minors in. Out you go if you're underage. Hotels evict guests who disturb others and/or cause damage to rooms.

 

WHY DON"T THE CRUISE LINES DO THIS? I know they VERY occasionally throw people off at a port, but I agree if they did it more often this behavior would cease. People do it because they can get away with it and the crew just lets it happen. Pretty soon the well-behaved passengers will select another vacation option if it continues to go the way it has been doing.

 

Cruise lines should enforce the rules. If they are so afraid of losing a few people's business then they are in bigger trouble than they think.[/quote

 

Well said! I agree with everything you said!

[room010]

I wholeheartedly agree with every word of Maraprince's post.

 

Another theme that seems to be emerging is the gross and pervasive sense of entitlement that so many people have these days. I'm sure it does contribute to the general "lowering the tone".

 

I wonder what would happen if a brave cruiseline offered an "old fashioned" cruise with the full bells and whistles formal dinners every night, strictly enforced standards of dress and behaviour and an opportunity for people to experience the kind of cruising my late parents enjoyed so much on the old Oriana or QE2 in her heyday. I think it would be terrific! The 24/7 Party Crowd would hate it of course. QED.

[RetireeWannabee]

Maybe the mainstream lines need to start providing a Contract of Conduct and actually spell out their expectations of passengers. Embarrassing to most of us who know what is/is not appropriate, perhaps some people just need to Be Told.

 

Many would not read it, but, that's their tough crap when they run afoul and get put off at the next port.

 

It would at least empower the crew to take action, which they currently simply can't do (won't?). I don't blame them - if it's not my job to get involved in bad goings-on, I'd stay clear. But if they have some Passenger Code to point to, to back them up, then, maybe.

 

The staff would take abuse, hopefully only verbal, from the ... perpetrators, and I'd hate to see that happen, but, aside from hiring a pile of security for enforcement, I don't see how else.

 

Clearly, too many people do not get it, do not want to get it, the world is their toilet, it's all about them, etc etc. Best we can do is try to gently guide, and get the hell out of the way when they take umbrage and begin flailing about.