What's causing bad behavior on cruise ships?

[circusmidget]

I think it is generational- I allude to the Mad Men reference again- one of my favorite shows- back in the 60's everyone dressed better. I was one of the younger people (35) on the cruise, and I went by the dress code for dinner, even though I would have rather worn jeans. Really, that is an old fashioned way of thinking with these dress codes. However I would rather see people nicely dressed than some white trash crowd wearing Hooters tank tops, Ed Harty t shirts, daisy duke shorts, etc. Other times on the cruise, I was wearing jeans and cargo shorts and t shirts when we were hittng the ports. I felt some of other passengers, who were very old, sometimes would look at me and my wife. It didn't make me uncomfortable, as I didn't care.

 

Why? Because that is what people in their 20-30s wear when on vacation. I don't have tattoos and I am in law enforcement, pretty conservative- but I am not going to wear sparkling white nurse reeboks to walk around Mykonos and wear pressed dockers to lunch just because all the old people are dressed like they just finished a round of goldf at the Colonial. Outside of Manhattan, and a few other spots do you even see people wearing suits (lawyers aside)

[pris993]

Discussion is interesting. We have been crusing a long time. Other than "dress code" issues we have not really noticed what other passengers are doing on cruises. This probably because we really don't spend that much time around others. We have breakfast and lunch in our cabin, a table for 2 in the diningroom. We explore ports on our own, enjoy our balcony vs the pool area of a ship.

 

We have noticed that MDR staff do not seemed to well trained in general. We cruise on Princess, HAL and Celebrity primarily. See the same thing on all lines. Don't know if the auto tip approach that all lines have adopted has effected service but service just does not seem to be as good as it use to be. Have had staff say that passengers don't care or know as an excuse. It is little things, i.e., not being provided a fish knife for example.

Not recorking wine or providing whole grain bread when requested and finding that we needed remind staff of these requests. Serving salads in a soup plate, not changing wine glasses when a new bottle of wine is opened til asked.

[Fredr]

Formal nights may or may not solve the problem. Having completed 34 cruises on 8 different lines, I have never observed most of the behavior cited. On HAL & Princess, we did notice the tendency to reserve deck chairs even though they were not used for hours.

DW & I now prefer Oceania because of the "country club casual" attire -no formal nights or even a sports coat. After 5 cruises, we have never experienced any of the behavior mentioned. I believe that most of the Oceania pax. enjoy the "no formal night" routine.

 

Hello,

 

The above is missing the point. It is understandable that most of Oceania's passengers would like to bypass formal nights, having spent their careers in suits and ties, or dresses. And there were many occasions when work and or social occasions called for formal dress. And Oceania's passengers which are similar to Azamara's always look appropriately dressed if not formally dressed when in the MDR.

 

Further, if you take away formal nights and make all nights on a cruise ship the same (nothing special) then an important part (to me) of the tradition of a cruise will be lost.

[Texas Tillie]

Discussion is interesting. We have been crusing a long time. Other than "dress code" issues we have not really noticed what other passengers are doing on cruises. This probably because we really don't spend that much time around others. We have breakfast and lunch in our cabin, a table for 2 in the diningroom. We explore ports on our own, enjoy our balcony vs the pool area of a ship.

 

We have noticed that MDR staff do not seemed to well trained in general. We cruise on Princess, HAL and Celebrity primarily. See the same thing on all lines. Don't know if the auto tip approach that all lines have adopted has effected service but service just does not seem to be as good as it use to be. Have had staff say that passengers don't care or know as an excuse. It is little things, i.e., not being provided a fish knife for example.

Not recorking wine or providing whole grain bread when requested and finding that we needed remind staff of these requests. Serving salads in a soup plate, not changing wine glasses when a new bottle of wine is opened til asked.

 

I don't expect that your complaints will ever be resolved to your satisfaction on the lines you usually cruise. From my experience, HAL, Princess and Crystal - your expectations for "fine" dining will be met only on a line like Crystal or one of the other "luxury" lines. The mass market lines, even the top tier like those you sail, are geared to the lowest common denominator now.

[madelinerose]

As a newbie cruiser, I simply don't understand this debate. It took me about one day on the internet to establish that there are different classes of cruise lines that cater to entirely different crowds. For example, if your idea of cruise entertainment is an enrichment lecture by an esteemed professor on the latest global economic trends, then the value line featuring a poolside hairy chest contest might not be right for you. And if your idea of vacation includes nothing but flip flops and seeing how many umbrellas you can collect from the daily drink specials, then the more genteel lines may be the wrong way to go.

 

Who says cruising can (or should) only be done one way? That's the beauty of the free market, folks... do your research and pick the niche that's right for you.

 

This ongoing argument between Group 1 (folks who think their righteous claim on cruising has been usurped by the unwashed masses) and Group 2 (folks who insist cruise lines should cater to the lowest common denominator) is just plain silly.

 

 

 

Absolutely, positively, without a doubt imo, THE post of the 2009!

Bravo, AriesMoon, the levelheaded BRAND NEW cruiser! Enjoy your first cruise! ;)

[sparky-elpaso]

Maybe the mainstream lines need to start providing a Contract of Conduct and actually spell out their expectations of passengers. Embarrassing to most of us who know what is/is not appropriate, perhaps some people just need to Be Told.

 

Many would not read it, but, that's their tough crap when they run afoul and get put off at the next port.

 

It would at least empower the crew to take action, which they currently simply can't do (won't?). I don't blame them - if it's not my job to get involved in bad goings-on, I'd stay clear. But if they have some Passenger Code to point to, to back them up, then, maybe.

 

The staff would take abuse, hopefully only verbal, from the ... perpetrators, and I'd hate to see that happen, but, aside from hiring a pile of security for enforcement, I don't see how else.

 

Clearly, too many people do not get it, do not want to get it, the world is their toilet, it's all about them, etc etc. Best we can do is try to gently guide, and get the hell out of the way when they take umbrage and begin flailing about.

 

 

I don't know about other lines but RCI does have a "Guest Conduct Policy" which covers a lot - most of which should be common sense.

[pris993]

I don't expect that your complaints will ever be resolved to your satisfaction on the lines you usually cruise. From my experience, HAL, Princess and Crystal - your expectations for "fine" dining will be met only on a line like Crystal or one of the other "luxury" lines. The mass market lines, even the top tier like those you sail, are geared to the lowest common denominator now.

 

Unfortunately, you are probably right and that means it may get worse I guess.

 

We are going to check out Cunard's Queen Victoria, not booked til 2011. Suspect it is not any different either when booked in the regular balcony cabins.

 

We were on Crystal many years ago, did not feel the quality of food was significantly different to warrant the additional costs. Maybe we should check it out again.

[Texas Tillie]

Unfortunately, you are probably right and that means it may get worse I guess.

 

We are going to check out Cunard's Queen Victoria, not booked til 2011. Suspect it is not any different either when booked in the regular balcony cabins.

 

We were on Crystal many years ago, did not feel the quality of food was significantly different to warrant the additional costs. Maybe we should check it out again.

 

My first cruise was in August, 2007 on HAL - so, after the decline was in full force. My total days are 7 on Princess, 14 on HAL and 28 on Crystal - with 13 more on Crystal in 2 weeks. I believe that Crystal is more than worth the difference in price considering the current conditions on ships. Come on over the the Crystal board - I think you'll get a good idea of what is offered now.

[G'ma]

Maybe the mainstream lines need to start providing a Contract of Conduct and actually spell out their expectations of passengers. Embarrassing to most of us who know what is/is not appropriate, perhaps some people just need to Be Told.

 

Many would not read it, but, that's their tough crap when they run afoul and get put off at the next port.

 

It would at least empower the crew to take action, which they currently simply can't do (won't?). I don't blame them - if it's not my job to get involved in bad goings-on, I'd stay clear. But if they have some Passenger Code to point to, to back them up, then, maybe.

 

The staff would take abuse, hopefully only verbal, from the ... perpetrators, and I'd hate to see that happen, but, aside from hiring a pile of security for enforcement, I don't see how else.

 

Clearly, too many people do not get it, do not want to get it, the world is their toilet, it's all about them, etc etc. Best we can do is try to gently guide, and get the hell out of the way when they take umbrage and begin flailing about.

 

Most of them already have a code of conduct in the passenger ticket contract/terms and conditions. The problem is that too many cruisers think they are exempt from any rules at all.....and too many cruise ships don't enforce their own rules.....

[Chusan]

It is a sad state of affairs that I notice amongst the myriad of paperwork that awaits me upon boarding a cruise, advice from the cruise line regarding expected shipboard behaviour and the consequences if I misbehave.

 

Maybe this advice should also be scripted into the pre-cruise documentation in a clear format so that attention is paid to this prior to boarding. Also if a passenger(s) is removed from the ship prior to the final day, without identifying the person(s), all passengers should be informed so that maybe they will become aware that policies will be enforced.

 

I worked on ocean liners for many years and rarely saw anyone drunk, in fact they were usually mortified the next day when they discovered what an audience they had created.

 

I hope cruise lines are paying attention to these comments because they have billions of dollars of ship ware tied up and need a never ending supply of new clients to keep their industry afloat.

[BIGDADDYRICH]

How funny it is to try to categorize people into different classifications. this may work for identifying a criminal, or a dream date, but not for this. People are people. We are different in so many ways, yet alike in just as much.

The point being, there are jerks in all walks of life. I'm a retired cop, and I know not all cops are good. How many stories do you hear about PRIEST having sex with altar boys, or TEACHERS with their students. This DOES NOT mean that they all do. Not all millionaires are crooks. When it happens, they get the media's attention, and the evil eye from those around them. Undoubtedly, the recent killings at Ft Hood Texas will cast a dim light on all muslims in the US.

That usually means that the other 97% of us have to apologize for them, or their conduct. Remember, there will ALWAYS be the 3%. The world still turns.

[room010]

I still firmly believe that standards of behaviour have fallen generally and a cruise is a microcosm of what's happening in the wider community. Kids no longer respect authority, be it their parents, teachers, priests and yes, even cops mainly because in our child-centric world there are no longer any meaningful consequences to such bad behaviour and holding them to account might crush their fragile self-esteeeeeeem. They run rings around us because they know they will get away with it and develop a grossly inflated sense of entitlement with it. And then they become adults with kids of their own and so the cycle continues. I'm afraid the problem begins in the cradle.

[David&Heather]

I have to disagree with some peoples comments on dress code and informal dress code causing problems. I've spent over 2months in the last 5 years onboard Ocean Village ships (which have no dress code) and have not seen any instance of bad behaviour.

 

The problem is, and I think what has been sadly demonstrated by some comments in this thread is one of certain people equating dress code or personal appearance to level of behaviour. There's a word for that, oh yeah, sterotype!

 

Just because someone has piercings, or a tattoo or maybe a shaven head does not mean they are some sort of thug.

 

The problem seems to occur on the lines who try and cater for both traditional and modern cruising.

 

There is insufficient new customers who prefer formal dressing to fill the increasing fleet size, so the brands have opened up and started making changes, like flexible dining, relaxing some dress codes.

 

Now take the following examples - If you go to see a Ballet you don't expect to see drunken, or loud behaviour. If you go to a sporting match - football/soccer you expect a bit more jovial - some drinks, some hot dogs and a more social atmosphere.

 

So the informal cruise lines people have an expectation and no one needs to dress up.

 

Take a formal line such as Cunard (do you reckon they get many instances of bad behaviour?) - again people have an expectation of what it will be like.

 

Now take a cruise line that has adopted a middle line approach. Some expect child-free, formal, traditional, others expect social child friendly, informal. And as with society you get difference of opinions. The well documented "xmas cruise on Ventura" highlights this, whilst probably minor and blown out of proportion you have a previous fairly traditional line P&O with a bigger than usual ship. This one they have tried to encourage more families and more choices, after some people had booked they suddenly dropped semi-formal nights to which some traditionalists deemed as a "dumbing down".

 

Now what expectations do you set for this ship - a trip to the Ballet or a trip to a social sporting event? It just takes one person to maybe complain that a family are not keeping their kids quiet or in order to spark a argument.

 

Again these ships then try and accommodate all by introducing onboard "adult-only" areas, formal and informal dining choices. You get a couple who have just had a quiet traditional 5-course meal dressed up in their Tux/best dress then enter a bar where a few friends have been watching a sporting match on the big screens and a few beers.

 

Now you could go to the extremes and revert back to a "Titanic era" of different classes, those who want to dine do so with the waiters upstairs, while those who want a drink and a dance to some loud music do so downstairs? :eek:

 

Which would be a sad affair for society..

 

For myself, now Carnival have decided to axe their best performing (customer satisfaction ratings) UK brand Ocean Village and sent a letter to all OV customers saying the nearest ship in the fleet was P&O's Ventura.

 

Hmm one has no dress code, mainly buffet restaurants and won cruise critics best family cruiseline award, the other still has ship-wide formal nights, in mainly waitered restaurants, two nights a week!

 

For one generation of cruisers its the atmosphere of fine wine and dining, dressing up and watching what other people are wearing, being waitered on and pampered. For another generation, cruising is an excellent floating hotel allowing for all the benefits of a traditional inclusive package holiday with flights/food/accommodation/entertainment/pools but not stuck in one location and to visit many destinations and only unpack once!

 

Agree with all of the above, other than a few instances of pushing in lines and sunbed hogging we have witnessed no instances of bad behavoir on our OV cruises.

To equate behavoir with dress and social / economic background is too simplistic, eliteism amongst traditional cruising types is probably more to balme for on ship problems.

Carnival UK appear to have got it completely wrong by ditching a brand with record customer satisfaction ratings and promoting 'one size fits all' ships as replacements. Accomodating both traditional and freestyle on the same ship is allways going to be difficult, we feel that it is going to be virtually impossible to achieve without some problems.

[Cruise Cats]

I have to agree that society in general seems a lot less concerned with manners and proper etiquette. This seems to be happening everywhere, not just cruise ships.

 

What I do find frustrating on cruise ships is that the policies do not seem to be enforced... We have been on 15 cruises and I have yet to see anyone be told they can't save seats at a show, and allow the passengers who are present and standing occupy those would-be saved seats. I have yet to see personal items removed from otherwise unoccupied deck chairs after the maximum allowable time. I have seen too much other rude behavior in conflict with other policies, often right in front of cruise management, go unaddressed.

 

After a few days of this, even I start to wonder if there's a point to following the policies and rules of etiquette. No one does anything to put a stop to deck chair hogs, and the one who loses out is the one paying attention to the policies. It's tempting to start 'fighting ill-mannered with ill-mannered', and I'm sure that worsens the atmosphere.

[RetireeWannabee]

I don't know about other lines but RCI does have a "Guest Conduct Policy" which covers a lot - most of which should be common sense.

Crap, that means we're back to non-enforcement?

 

Well, we can't solve it, unless a steely glare will suddenly be the undoing of the ill-behaved.

[sparky-elpaso]

Crap, that means we're back to non-enforcement?

 

Well, we can't solve it, unless a steely glare will suddenly be the undoing of the ill-behaved.

 

 

Or the "Mom look". DH and I just returned from a trip to Disney World (we're in our early 60's) and I had to use my Mom voice once. We were in EPCOT in the Germany area and there were 5 or 6 boys around 9 or 10 years old - throwing stones at the miniature village. Not a parent to be seen. So I - nicely but firmly - told them I didn't think that was something they needed to be doing. And they not only stopped but most of them had the good grace to look embarrassed.

[screwsmcernst]

I still firmly believe that standards of behaviour have fallen generally and a cruise is a microcosm of what's happening in the wider community. Kids no longer respect authority, be it their parents, teachers, priests and yes, even cops mainly because in our child-centric world there are no longer any meaningful consequences to such bad behaviour and holding them to account might crush their fragile self-esteeeeeeem. They run rings around us because they know they will get away with it and develop a grossly inflated sense of entitlement with it. And then they become adults with kids of their own and so the cycle continues. I'm afraid the problem begins in the cradle.

 

 

I truly believe you are correct. My DH and I took a cruise 3 yrs ago, and we got on a glass elevator, the 3 pre-teen girls were in. They were unhappy to be sharing. One of the girls started climbing the walls. Her friend asked what I thought of her friend, and I said "She is something." The climber didn't like my remark, and as we were getting off the elevator she called out "Hey lady" and then flipped me off. My DH had to grab my arm and pull me through the deck doors because I was heading back to the elevator to "chat" with the girl and have her introduce me to her parents. I was HOT!!!

 

We have taken our children on many cruises, and they know that if they EVER disrespect people or property, I would not stand for it, and I think it is so sad when parents stop being parents because they are worried about their kids liking them. Everyone can have fun without crossing the line.

[Maraprince]

If the behavior or style of dress is not acceptable to the cruise line, the cruise line needs to step up and address the passenger (s) who are in violation. As long as they choose to ignore it and not want to "ruffle" the feathers of the violaters, it will continue to exist.

 

It becomes a problem when someone's behavior, conduct, antics infringe on another passenger's enjoyment. Many passengers leave their own children at home. To inflict the bad behavior of other people's children is just criminal. If the hot tubs are adult only, a passenger should not have to get into a confrontation with another passenger because their kids are playing in it, tossing things around in it, yelling loudly, etc. with their parents ignoring the whole thing. How many times does a bartender or staff member supervising the pool areas pass by and ignore the behavior? Only when another passenger calls a staff member over and points out the sign stating adults only and pushes the staff member to take the appropriate action is something reluctantly done. Meanwhile, adults cannot use the hot tubs since the kids have taken it over. When something is said to their parents, their parents act like you are personally singling out their kids and causing a problem.

 

Same goes for the dining room. Maitre'd are reluctantly to enforce a dress code for fear of losing a tip. Put up a large sign, clearly visible that cannot be missed when entering the main dining rooms stating what is not an acceptable form of dress and enforce it. Put the same information in the daily program and run it everyday.

 

If a child injures him/herself while "playing" on the ship, the parents are ready to sue when it is their fault in the first place for allowing the kids to go unsupervisored and engaging in roughhousing etc. You know it is going to turn out badly for the kids as well as some poor unfortunate passenger who happens to be in the wrong area at the wrong time and gets knocked down and injured.

 

MARAPRINCE

[room010]

I truly believe you are correct. My DH and I took a cruise 3 yrs ago, and we got on a glass elevator, the 3 pre-teen girls were in. They were unhappy to be sharing. One of the girls started climbing the walls. Her friend asked what I thought of her friend, and I said "She is something." The climber didn't like my remark, and as we were getting off the elevator she called out "Hey lady" and then flipped me off. My DH had to grab my arm and pull me through the deck doors because

I was heading back to the elevator to "chat" with the girl and have her introduce me to her parents.

I was HOT!!!

 

 

If you had spoken to her oblivious parents (who were probably getting blitzed in the casino) about their daughter's rude behaviour they wouldn't have had a clue what you were talking about. And then they would have threatened to sue you :rolleyes:

[Maraprince]

Some passengers seem to leave both their brains and good manners at home when boarding a cruise ship and feel that any form of behavior, dress or conduct is acceptable. They would not do so at home, but come on a cruise and out the window it all goes! The cruise lines reinforce the bad behavior and dress code by not addressing them. The lines seem to bury their heads in the sand and hope it goes away without them getting involved.

 

What is going on here? Adults know what and what not is acceptable in public. Why does anyone have to tell them in the first place, that their behavior/dress is inappropriate? Do they feel that no one is going to do anything about it and they are getting away with something? If you would not do it at home, why are you doing it on a cruise ship???????

 

 

 

MARAPRINCE

[Canuker]

Only ever had a problem once. He was a short, older Texan.

He made Don Rickles sound like Mother Theresa. He tried to make his disgusting insults sound like jokes, by laughing at the end of every sentence.

Once I realized that he was a misanthrope, and I was not alone, it didn't bother me. Needless to say, a lot of folk learned to give him a wide berth.

[trainfan]

The worst example of bad behaviour that I have seen was not a kid, but a well dressed middle aged man who stole the prizes at Trivia games. He was identified to the cruise staff by passengers and all he did was consistently deny it. The cruise staff couldn't search him and seemed reluctant to call security as they would have to then search everyone. After a couple of intstances of this, the cruise staff just kept prizes in their pockets. I have no idea why the person wanted so many luggage tags - the half dozen ball caps I understand (sort of).

[popscotch]

I think all you have to do is look at the airline industry and how the level of comfort has gone downhill since they have lowered the cost of tickets, allowing the traveller who would normally travel by bus or train,or maybe hitch hike to travel by air where as you may have paid a thousand dollars for your seat and you are sitting next to someone who hasnt had a bath in days , shoes off , drinking and probably paid two hundred bucks for his ticket, I have been cruising for thirty years and it is absolutly getting worst, Can anybody remember when people used to dress up to travel???The same has happened to the cruise industry ,The cruise lines just want to get people on board and hope to empty their pockets and credit cards with no consideration for the civilized traveler.

[screwsmcernst]

If you had spoken to her oblivious parents (who were probably getting blitzed in the casino) about their daughter's rude behaviour they wouldn't have had a clue what you were talking about. And then they would have threatened to sue you :rolleyes:

 

 

I'm sure you are right. It is good that my DH pulled me away. I did keep seeing that child around the boat for the next few days, and when she saw me she steered clear.:D

[Maraprince]

Too much of the "me first" state of mind. Too bad if you don't get it -- it's all about me. What makes me happy and what I want to do. Who cares about anyone else!

 

Bad behavior in children can be somewhat excused. But adult bad behavior is downright rude, insensitive and smacks of the total lack of any concern for infringing on others rights and pure selfishness.

 

Would you exhibit such bad behavior at your place of business? I think not since you would be fired, ejected, etc. Airlines will call security to arrest you when the flight land if you engaged in bad behavior on a plane. Hotels will eject you if you destroy their property and disturb other guests.

 

Why are the cruise lines so hesitant to confront the offending passengers? They took their reservation and booking. Therefore, the cruise lines are responsible if one passenger's bad behavior has an inpact on another passenger's enjoying the cruise they booked and paid for.

 

The price you pay for a cruise should not make any difference in your behavior and what is acceptable. Bad behavior is bad behavior whether you are in the cheapest inside cabin or the most expensive suite. Some of the worse offenders are the higher paying passengers who treat crew and staff like slaves that are there to wait on them hand and foot and feel they are above the rules.

 

It is up to the cruise lines to inform passengers of what they consider acceptable behavior. If a passenger deviates from the norm, they should be told the first time (informal warning). If the behavior continues after the initial notification, then the cruise line needs to back it up with some consequences. By choosing to ignore bad behavior, the cruise lines are sending the wrong message -- anything goes as long as the ship sails full.

 

 

MARAPRINCE