A third Carnival Dream class ship ordered

[gtalum]

The Fantasy vessels are starting to show their age. They are the oldest in the Carnival fleet and if ANY of the competition decides to re-position (some already have) a younger vessel on the same market it is going to make CCL step their operation up. And many of these vessels have traditional balcony designs..the Lego'd balconies CCL did are simply not going to go over as well in another couple of years. If one or two of the Fantasy ships were repositioned..a Destiny Class could fill the void (and if it is the Destiny good god Carnival get her into drydock and overhaul her! She has developed a nasty reputation as being mechanically challenged).

 

The Fantasy ships are, for the most part, good work horses. But they are fast becoming dated..CCL is going to have replace them.

 

As we noted in our previous discussion on this topic, the 8 Fantasy class vessels are comparable in age to Royal's 8 oldest ships. Royal is Carnival's primary competition.

[Savoia]

As we noted in our previous discussion on this topic, the 8 Fantasy class vessels are comparable in age to Royal's 8 oldest ships. Royal is Carnival's primary competition.

 

Yes, they are comprable in age..they are not comparable in DESIGN and that is the point I am trying to make. Upgrading the Fantasy Class was a far more favorable financial option than phazing them out..CCL has been having issues with building costs. The recent 3rd Dream Class was a Dollar driven deal..totally groundbreaking given all the deals with Fincanteri have been Euro driven in the past. Those upgrades CCL did will pay for themselves quickly..they have 2 as the length of life CCL has for these ships on their books is coming up (25 years) and the oldest of this class is now 20.

 

Fantasy is a great workhorse...but those ships will not hold a candle to vessels 8 or 10 yrs old on the same market run.

[pseudochicken]

Well I don't understand why Carnival chooses to pump out the bigger ships if cost is an issue.

 

Why not expand the Spirit class and make another two of those instead of another Dream class ship?

[Savoia]

Well I don't understand why Carnival chooses to pump out the bigger ships if cost is an issue.

 

Why not expand the Spirit class and make another two of those instead of another Dream class ship?

 

Cost is always an issue...CCL made its name by keeping all costs as low as possible (the fares remain cheap because passengers subsidize the difference). It's expensive to expand..its expensive to build..all things considered it is more favorable to build new//latest product with a longer shelf life. The issue these days is the recession..the Euro being out of whack to make it attractive for brands like CCL to build..Fancanteri is looking for the business now where as in the past the business came to them.

[TomCatCruiser]

CCL keeps cost low by keeping common as much as possible between the ships, hence the same sofas, etc.

 

This is not the first ship Carnival has negotiated in USD but would seem to indicate they think the Euro will be stronger than the dollar over the next few years.

[Casino Player]

A question Casino Player:

 

When did you go on your cruise? I have heard nothing but bad things from people who were on the cruise to nowhere from New York. There was a storm out to sea I suppose plus the crew were still new to the ship. But other than that I have heard many good reviews.

 

 

 

I agree.

 

HHHHHEEEEELLLLLLLLLLOOOOO pseudochicken: We were on the C-T-N that left NYC on 11/13. Then we took the trip to Florida and the Bahamas that left NYC on 11/15.

[DarthGrady]

I think its funny how Cahill said that Dream has been getting "rave reviews". From what I have been seeing on the boards, lukewarm would be my choise of words. :rolleyes:

 

Also, in as much as I hope the Fantasy class ships stick around a while, I don't see how the EOF is going to keep them with CCL longer. If Carnival Corp. follows it's recent history of transferring to Europe, they are going to have just as much (if not more) of a return on their investment. As long as the ships sail full for one of the Carnival Corp. brands, it doesn't really matter to them what nationality the passengers are.

[Savoia]

I think its funny how Cahill said that Dream has been getting "rave reviews". From what I have been seeing on the boards, lukewarm would be my choise of words. :rolleyes:

 

 

Long lines for everything, mediochore service and now a power failure inboard. I agree..the immediate reviews outside CCL..the ones that count..have largely been anything but wonderful.

[Sargent_Schultz]

I'm still waiting for someone to post pictures of those long lines and date / ship time when they were taken. Or of any of the other complaints. I think most of the complaints are fiction embellished with more fiction.

[toad455]

Carnival just gave up the Holiday this year and the Celebration last year. Considering that the Sensation & Ecstasy just had balconies added plus several other Fantasy-class ships are expected to get them as well, I don't see Carnival transfering any Fantasy-class ships anytime soon. The Fantasy arrived in 1990, so at best I would say 2014. The Holiday arrived in 1985 and just left. That was 24 years as a Carnival ship.

[tntornadox]

Long lines for everything, mediochore service and now a power failure inboard. I agree..the immediate reviews outside CCL..the ones that count..have largely been anything but wonderful.

 

My, it sounds as if you have never seen the first ship of a new class leave the shipyards... they all experience hiccups and technical issues (admittedly, some worse than others)...

 

As great as X's Millenium class is now, I remember their terrible pod problems when they were introduced, Queen Mary 2 still has some issues every once in awhile, the list goes on and on.

 

The fact of the matter is within a few months, CCL will have any of Dream's problems ironed out completely and her sisters should set sail with the kinks in the design already worked out for them.

[gtalum]

Yes, they are comprable in age..they are not comparable in DESIGN and that is the point I am trying to make. Upgrading the Fantasy Class was a far more favorable financial option than phazing them out..CCL has been having issues with building costs. The recent 3rd Dream Class was a Dollar driven deal..totally groundbreaking given all the deals with Fincanteri have been Euro driven in the past. Those upgrades CCL did will pay for themselves quickly..they have 2 as the length of life CCL has for these ships on their books is coming up (25 years) and the oldest of this class is now 20.

 

This is a strange post. You mention that upgrading the Fantasy class was clearly a better financial prospect than ordering new ships, but you do so in a way that implies negativity. Carnival made the wise financial move in an uncertain economy. This is even more clear as its primary competitor is posting quarterly losses just as they have to add a massive debt load to their books.

 

Fantasy is a great workhorse...but those ships will not hold a candle to vessels 8 or 10 yrs old on the same market run.

 

That's a straw man argument, since Destiny is already on short runs. In 8-10 years the Fantasy-class (except maybe Inspiration, Elation, and Paradise) will be passed down to other fleets within CCL (or maybe sold to Royal Caribbean subsidiaries liek Tropicale... ;) ) and the Conquest-class will be making the short runs. I'm certain the EOF upgrades are simply a measure to buy time.

[Sargent_Schultz]

This is a strange post. You mention that upgrading the Fantasy class was clearly a better financial prospect than ordering new ships, but you do so in a way that implies negativity. Carnival made the wise financial move in an uncertain economy. This is even more clear as its primary competitor is posting quarterly losses just as they have to add a massive debt load to their books.

 

 

 

That's a straw man argument, since Destiny is already on short runs. In 8-10 years the Fantasy-class (except maybe Inspiration, Elation, and Paradise) will be passed down to other fleets within CCL (or maybe sold to Royal Caribbean subsidiaries liek Tropicale... ;) ) and the Conquest-class will be making the short runs. I'm certain the EOF upgrades are simply a measure to buy time.

 

Fantasy is the BEST in class. I'm fairly confident it will be cruising long after Oasis is a docked hotel/amusement park.

 

Having older smaller ships available to reposition to test new/emerging markets is a brilliant strategy that is paying off.

[Savoia]

This is a strange post. You mention that upgrading the Fantasy class was clearly a better financial prospect than ordering new ships, but you do so in a way that implies negativity. Carnival made the wise financial move in an uncertain economy. This is even more clear as its primary competitor is posting quarterly losses just as they have to add a massive debt load to their books.

 

 

 

That's a straw man argument, since Destiny is already on short runs. In 8-10 years the Fantasy-class (except maybe Inspiration, Elation, and Paradise) will be passed down to other fleets within CCL (or maybe sold to Royal Caribbean subsidiaries liek Tropicale... ;) ) and the Conquest-class will be making the short runs. I'm certain the EOF upgrades are simply a measure to buy time.

 

Not 8 or 10 years from now..rather vessels that are 8 to 10 years old right now. Personally..these vessels are among the most unattractive in the fleet..why on earth CCL went forward with this dated construction when everyone else at the time was doing balconies (and yes there are a couple of exceptions) is beyond me. With the Destiny..my gut feeling is her short run assignment has more to do with her problematic mechanics than an ideal positioning. And with the Tropicale..I'm happy to report Pullmantur dumped her a couple of weeks back. She was a temporary stop gap measure to gets berths into the fleet. RCL now has an ideal positioning with Pullmantur.

[gtalum]

Fantasy is the BEST in class. I'm fairly confident it will be cruising long after Oasis is a docked hotel/amusement park.

 

Having older smaller ships available to reposition to test new/emerging markets is a brilliant strategy that is paying off.

 

I'm a big fan of the Fantasy class, but I'd be surprised if any of them reach 30 years old in the Carnival fleet. I suspect they'll start moving them to other fleets within CCL by 2015. EOF was a stopgap to keep Carnival from ending up in the situation Royal Caribbean is now in with quarterly losses and mounting debt during uncertain economic times. With the economy picking up, they'll start ordering new ships again. I wouldn't be surprised if they add a new mid-size type to the fleet, as they will need to replace the Fantasy class and the Spirit class.

[Savoia]

I'm a big fan of the Fantasy class, but I'd be surprised if any of them reach 30 years old in the Carnival fleet. I suspect they'll start moving them to other fleets within CCL by 2015. EOF was a stopgap to keep Carnival from ending up in the situation Royal Caribbean is now in with quarterly losses and mounting debt during uncertain economic times. With the economy picking up, they'll start ordering new ships again. I wouldn't be surprised if they add a new mid-size type to the fleet, as they will need to replace the Fantasy class and the Spirit class.

 

Where do you think they will go? Where ae they going to fit? Not only are the hulls the oldest in the company..the design is very dated. Ibo Cruises might be able to absorb them... but cetainly not all of them.

[Sargent_Schultz]

I'm a big fan of the Fantasy class, but I'd be surprised if any of them reach 30 years old in the Carnival fleet. I suspect they'll start moving them to other fleets within CCL by 2015. EOF was a stopgap to keep Carnival from ending up in the situation Royal Caribbean is now in with quarterly losses and mounting debt during uncertain economic times. With the economy picking up, they'll start ordering new ships again. I wouldn't be surprised if they add a new mid-size type to the fleet, as they will need to replace the Fantasy class and the Spirit class.

 

I don't see them going anywhere soon - certainly not before the new locks in Panama open.

 

If Carnival doesn't want to keep them in the brand they could always spin off another brand for the US market.

[gtalum]

Where do you think they will go? Where ae they going to fit? Not only are the hulls the oldest in the company..the design is very dated. Ibo Cruises might be able to absorb them... but cetainly not all of them.

 

They'll find homes for them. They are well-maintained and popular ships. There are a lot of budget lines out there that would like to get their hands on them, if they can't fit into other Carnival brands.

[gtalum]

I don't see them going anywhere soon - certainly not before the new locks in Panama open.

 

If Carnival doesn't want to keep them in the brand they could always spin off another brand for the US market.

 

Hey I'm just speculating, but I'll really be surprised if the oldest of the Fantasy-class are still in the fleet in 2020.

[Sargent_Schultz]

Hey I'm just speculating, but I'll really be surprised if the oldest of the Fantasy-class are still in the fleet in 2020.

 

I certainly hope the new locks are open by then.

[Earthworm Jim]

I'm still waiting for someone to post pictures of those long lines and date / ship time when they were taken. Or of any of the other complaints. I think most of the complaints are fiction embellished with more fiction.

 

What would be the reviewers' incentive to lie about it and say it was worse than it is? And who takes pictures of lines?

[pseudochicken]

I think P&O Australia would be a perfect fit for some of the Fantasy vessels. The Australia market is doing well, isn't it?

 

And I think they'd replace of the Destiny/Triumph class before they'd replace the Spirit class. This is of course more than a decade's time away before that actually becomes a discussion. :p

[cruiserbryce]

I guess if Dream is that popular they are striking while the irons hot. I would imagine they think they can bring in more revenue by adding to the CCL fleet than Princess at the moment. Other than Ruby when was the last new Princess ship.

[Sargent_Schultz]

What would be the reviewers' incentive to lie about it and say it was worse than it is? And who takes pictures of lines?

 

The only lines I see are people who insist on eating the minute any venue opens up and often are in line before the food is available.

 

If the venue isn't open, that isn't wait time, that is impatience. If you don't want to wait, try coming 30 minutes later.

 

I suspect many of these people were from the NY area. :)

[pseudochicken]

The only lines I see are people who insist on eating the minute any venue opens up and often are in line before the food is available.

 

If the venue isn't open, that isn't wait time, that is impatience. If you don't want to wait, try coming 30 minutes later.

 

I suspect many of these people were from the NY area. :)

 

What's wrong with the NY area?