Is It Realistic Or Are We Saying What is Expected?

[sail7seas]

I admire cruises who come here and report to us what they have experienced on a given ship and generously tell us about their cruise.

 

I enjoy reading everyone's remarks and make my own choice of how much sounds like what we personally have experienced or observed and in the process often learn something new about a HAL ship, crew or cruise.

 

But I also sometimes pause and wonder when I read the added sentiment of something like "We had an awesome time and didn't let any of IT bother us". The IT, of course, referring to negative incidents.

 

Is that realistic, is it possible, is it honest?

 

If you didn't have a/c for most of your Caribbean cruise, your toilet backed up 4 times, your cabin steward forgot turn down service two nights in a row, your dining steward was overworked and you missed the show most nights because you got out of dinner too late, tender service was agonizingly slow, there was no aroma in your spa aroma therapy thingee, and who knows what else..........

 

How can you say 'we didn't let it bother us and we had an awesome time"? :D

 

Sure.... almost all of us can let it roll with one of the above, two and even three. But how many significant negative issues can occur on your cruise before you start to say, this cruise is not acceptable or what I expected?

[Mpowered]

Sail,

 

I think you make good points and ask good questions. It seems to me that a lot of postings turn a small negative into a reason to be very unhappy with their cruise, their ship, with HAL. When I wrote my recent review about the Zuiderdam, I had that in mind. We did have a couple of things happen that could be considered negative, but we still had a great cruise. With the negative tone of many postings, I think some people feel a little bad about mentioning something negative and want to also say that they still had a good trip.

 

Now, when you get into things like a dry-dock that is still going on once the ship is at sea, I'm not sure how you can still have a great cruise in spite of everything!

 

Joan

[SwissMyst]

I think you answered your own question.

 

If I pay for a Comfort Suites motel, I don't expect to get the Ritz Carlton hotel. But I do expect to get a clean, functioning room. If the cabin is not functional, this is a breach of contract on the most material terms. And under the circumstances of the high seas and a full ship, accommodations have to be appropriate due to those limitations.

 

A chocolate on my pillow every night would be appreciated, but not expected. Having my water glass filled without asking would be appreciated but not expected. Having room service on demand with instant response would be appreciated, but not expected. Having haute cuisine when paying chain restaurant prices would be appreciated, but not expected.

 

A far greater disappointment is paying for the Ritz-Carlton and not getting the Ritz-Carlton. Paying for HAL to get me there and enjoying the basics is good enough for me. Anything else is merely appreciated, and rewarded but not expected. As long as I still think I get travel value for my HAL dollar, I don't care if they don't have rock climbing walls and living grass balconies.

 

No one should have to negotiate a working, sanitary cabin and reasonable level of basic services that cover several thousand passengers at the same time.

 

What is your list of essentials? And what is fair recompense when they are not delivered. Cabin temperature and sanitation are beyond the pale as basic services. There should be full compensation (either monetary or in kind or both) for every usuable hour lost when those essential cabin services are malfunctioning.

[Krazy Kruizers]

Hmmmmmmmm -- brings back memories of when I have comme back with negatives about a couple of our cruises -- and got FLAMED!!

 

I have noticed that some of these newbees have reported a lot more negatives than I ever did and have not been flamed.

 

Gets one wondering about this site at times.

[travelmatron]

You've posed an excellent question. There was a survey done of reviews, and while I no longer remember the specific results, in general it found that people were reporting few average hotels, average tours or average cruises. Almost everything was either 4 or 5 stars. Well that's just not possible. By definition there is a whole lot of average in the world.

I'm often amazed at how defensive many people are of their cruise line of choice...whatever that cruise line is. I think we don't want to acknowledge that we could have made a mistake in the way we chose to spend our valuable vacation time and dollars. So there is a kill the messenger mentality when a review is less than stellar.

There is also an American thing about being a good sport about things that happens, or an innate desire to be positive. But enough little things and it just isn't a good cruise. We had a very disappointing cruise about 10 years ago. Our cabin was over the speakers in the disco, we were moved to and inside cabin by an aft door under the hot tub and next to the ping pong table. We spent the cruise in sleep deprivation until we were moved to a balcony cabin for the last two days of an 11 day cruise. By then we'd unpacked 3 times. We were told we shouldn't complain because we'd been upgraded.

[SwissMyst]

Again, the observation that most complaints come when a ship comes off of dry dock, and/or gets a new majority of staff and/or change of command.

 

Different cruises are often priced differently for the same itinerary and it could be those lower prices reflect these two situations as well as weather, high season or any other pricing factor variables. If the cruise is a 'bargain", maybe we are learning more why. And need to ratchet down our expectations under those circumstances.

 

It is nice when one posts dry dock schedules though I think i would have assumed I was getting a better ship, but it appears lately just the opposite is happening. Which is too bad because you know the intent was to make things better.

 

Lots to learn reading this forum.

[SwissMyst]

I'm often amazed at how defensive many people are of their cruise line of choice...whatever that cruise line is.

 

I contend it is often a justice issue, rather than a blind brand defensiveness issue. Some of the complaints just don't seem fair or offered in proper context, objective or subjective as that criteria is.

 

When I see posters compare or demand HAL offer the same level of care as far more expensive cruiselines, I don't think that is fair. And I leap to defend the context. Perhaps you have noticed? :rolleyes:

[SwissMyst]

Hmmmmmmmm -- brings back memories of when I have comme back with negatives about a couple of our cruises -- and got FLAMED!!

 

I have noticed that some of these newbees have reported a lot more negatives than I ever did and have not been flamed.

 

Gets one wondering about this site at times.

 

If it makes you feel any better, sometimes we get flamed if we defend HAL. ;)

[momofmeg]

Hmmmmmmmm -- brings back memories of when I have comme back with negatives about a couple of our cruises -- and got FLAMED!!

 

I have noticed that some of these newbees have reported a lot more negatives than I ever did and have not been flamed.

 

Gets one wondering about this site at times.

 

Why do loyalists flame others? Yes, some are so negative, and take a small minute thing and make it into something big. An example-"the waiters in lido restaurant did not offer me a refill of tea when I finished mine." That is just a silly gripe when you are in a self service restaurant and the drink station is only a few feet away.

 

On the other hand because someone reports a few things they were not happy with, (mold in their tub, uncooked lobster) they can still overall enjoy their cruise. That does not mean they are out to black ball HAL, the way some loyalists take it.

 

But you know, bottom line, I have find often my experiences is not that of others. For example I read all these posts that said the Zuiderdam was gaudily decorated and shabby. I did not find this true at all. I thought she looked pretty darn good for a nearly 8 year old ship.

 

We all need to take what is posted on message boards with a grain of salt. yes, we can get good information, but often we have to sift through much that is useless.

[cmdchiefthom]

I come from a world (military) where I expect people and organizations to live up to my expectations, which are pretty high. I also come from that world where having a tent, and a cot, is actually a good thing. I can say from that perspective, I have rarely had issues with any of my cruising experiences aboard HAL. However, having said that, I have, on occasion, taken things to the appropriate level aboard ship, to correct something I feel was in need of correction. A key rule I've learned during my military career is, "praise in public, correct in private". Anything I have experienced while cruising that became a negative issue with me, was brought to the attention of the appropriate officer, and usually that approach produced the desired results, at least aboard HAL's ships. I have had this approach fail, and have expressed my opinions here on this site, but not on here on this board. ;)

[sail7seas]

If it makes you feel any better, sometimes we get flamed if we defend HAL. ;)

 

 

:) Yes, indeed, I've been There a few times. ;)

There are some folks who complain about everything all the time and can always find something to whine about and there are some of us who get blasted for finding all the positive things to appreciate.

 

 

When I read legitimate sounding complaints that appear to be credible and then in the next paragraph read, "But we didn't let those things negatively impact our cruise" I am in wonderment. How are they so cool that list of inconveniences and downright omissions and malfunction didn't impact their cruise? What!!!?

 

No one defends HAL more than me and few here love that line and the crews and ships more than DH and me but if we had all those things go wrong, it WOULD impact our cruise. No doubt about it!

 

Thankfully, to date, we have never had a cruise with an overwhelming number of things go wrong. Not to say there haven't been a few 'mis-steps' along the way. ;)

[soldham]

As I have grown up I have come to realize that few things in life go without a glitch and not every experience meets expectations. That does not mean the whole trip was ruined or that HAL should pay through the nose to compensate someone.

 

BUT - if things go badly (as they sometimes do) following up with the appropriate staff in an appropriate manner on the ship is the first step. I have WAY too many times seen people yell at the poor front desk staff like they were personally responsible for all the woes.

If that does not solve the problem - or even if it does but further follow up with Seattle is perceived to be warranted then a professional letter is the next step. We have always found the responses timely and the recompense (if applicable) appropriate.

 

Finally - I see no issue with documenting your perception of your experience on the board. Don't be nasty or childish but sharing is what these sites are all about.

[hoopman]

You've posed an excellent question. There was a survey done of reviews, and while I no longer remember the specific results, in general it found that people were reporting few average hotels, average tours or average cruises. Almost everything was either 4 or 5 stars. Well that's just not possible. By definition there is a whole lot of average in the world.

 

quote]

There is a lot of average in the world and there is nothing wrong with that. At my company, meets expectations = average and it is expected that the majority of employees will meet expectations. A minority will exceed expectations or excel and a minority will need improvement or fall below expectations. This works just fine as long as the expectations are defined and clear at the outset. As with cruising the the company chooses not to sail with the employees that consistently need improvement or consistently fall below expectations. The employees that exceeed expectation are in great demand.

[Taxguy77]

I think you answered your own question.

No one should have to negotiate a working, sanitary cabin and reasonable level of basic services that cover several thousand passengers at the same time.

 

What is your list of essentials? And what is fair recompense when they are not delivered. Cabin temperature and sanitation are beyond the pale as basic services. There should be full compensation (either monetary or in kind or both) for every usuable hour lost when those essential cabin services are malfunctioning.

 

Absolutly! I do not expect to spend my vacation in filth, if I did I could save big money sleeping in the city dump!:eek: As a matter of fact, 3 friends and I camped at the city landfill of Carcasone, France, but that's another story.

Also the dump being outside would not concentrate oders like a cabin, and probably have a breeze fr some heat relief.:rolleyes:

[michmike]

not to minimize problems, and yes, one should seek redress when possible. But the larger issue here, I think, is that life is less about what happens to you than how you react to it.

 

There are those that want to make a huge issue of every problem they encounter and seem to feel that the problem was specifically directed at them and then there are those that are more prone to believe that s**t happens, and that when it does there is little point in rolling in it and compounding the problem.

 

We travel w/ another couple whose company we enjoy and in this economy we all are so grateful that we still have decent jobs and are able to have time away from work and have the wherewithall to travel. It would take an AWFUL lot to ruin our time away and together.

 

We leave home understanding that things won't go according to plan 100% of the time and that taking that in stride is simply part of the cost of travel.

[AfriCan]

My take is that a perceived problem can have one of two sources - emotional, as in "I didn't think the food was of high quality and tasteful", and factual, as in "my lobster mac arrived, minus the mac part". The first instance is subjective, because what tastes exceptional to one person, may be on the low end of the scale for the next. In the latter instance, I would call the server over and ask him to correct the situation, pour another glass of wine and continue to enjoy the meal and company. When things continue to go wrong or fall apart around a vacation (as it often does with air or sea travel), my take is that if my luggage and I still arrive in one piece at the same time at the same place, it was a good vacation (I REFUSE to let new airline regulations, sleepless nights stuck at an airport, lost luggage or stolen items from it, unforseen weather, too hot/too cold/no AC, diverted flights/ports etc. diminish my well-deserved vacation. I still get to go, many others don't have the opportunity).

 

I grew up in a third world country where you pay first word rates for utilities and services and are lucky to get anything in good working order on the first try. You learn tolerance and patience if you want to survive without anger consuming you. Life becomes a lot more tolerable when facts aren't overrun by emotion. You know the saying about "good Karma, bad Karma"... Strange how keeping a friendly and non-entitled approach to a problem always nets the most favourable results (at least in my personal experience).

[jhannah]

This IS a good question. Basically, how much is too much? Not as easy to answer as it is to ask! :) I agree with the posts above that realistically state that life isn't perfect. Things happen, even in the most well-rehearsed situations. These are the sorts of things I can pretty much let roll off.

 

That being said, some happenings are just too impactful to brush off. Not having a functioning toilet for a lengthy period of time ... dodging crates and workers as drydock continues during the cruise ... consistently poor service in the dining room, beyond just a slip here and there.

 

Fortunately, I've never had anything happen I considered catastrophic during a cruise. Made it through four hours of total power loss (dead in the water,) had non-flushing toilets for several hours at a time, and stuff like that. But I don't consider that a deal-breaker. Those sorts of things I can truthfully say are the "its" that I didn't let get in the way of enjoying my cruise.

[PaulaS8071]

Interesting thread. Brings up issues that I have been contemplating since our recent New Year's cruise on the Westerdam. I think what really matters if you have an "issue" on a cruise is how much it disrupts your cruise. Our teenaged sons had an inside cabin down the hall from our suite. They called us one morning at 6 am (causing great alarm to both parents because they never stirred before 10 am!!). They were laughing so hard they were having trouble telling their story. Seems first their fire alarm went off. When they turned the lights on, there was water streaming from the smoke alarm. They immediately got a call from someone (front desk??) saying, your smoke alarm is going off, are you smoking? Which they thought was hilarious since they a-don't smoke and b-water was pouring out of said smoke alarm. Long story short, the jacuzzi on right above their cabin on Lido deck was draining into their cabin. I am talking major water, folks, buckets and buckets of water. Their cabin was totally uninhabitable for the entire day. The furniture was pushed out of the way, buckets were lined up, blowers brought in, etc. However, the boys only sleep in that cabin, we use the suite for visiting during the day, so they really were not that inconvenienced. Had that been someone's main place to inhabit, it would have been a different story. (I think HAL knew the situation-the stewards certainly knew that we had the suite down the hall). So we didn't complain at all. But what kind of irks me is that on the LAST day of the cruise, the boys were delivered "compensation". A soda card and two baseball caps. What good is 20 sodas on the last day of a cruise? (We put it in the Bible, by the way). And they are not baseball cap wearers. Am I going to complain? No. But the "compensation" was almost an insult. Bottom line, we were not that much inconvenienced. That is what makes the difference, I think.

Paula

[Krazy Kruizers]

Why do loyalists flame others? Yes, some are so negative, and take a small minute thing and make it into something big. An example-"the waiters in lido restaurant did not offer me a refill of tea when I finished mine." That is just a silly gripe when you are in a self service restaurant and the drink station is only a few feet away.

 

On the other hand because someone reports a few things they were not happy with, (mold in their tub, uncooked lobster) they can still overall enjoy their cruise. That does not mean they are out to black ball HAL, the way some loyalists take it.

 

But you know, bottom line, I have find often my experiences is not that of others. For example I read all these posts that said the Zuiderdam was gaudily decorated and shabby. I did not find this true at all. I thought she looked pretty darn good for a nearly 8 year old ship.

 

We all need to take what is posted on message boards with a grain of salt. yes, we can get good information, but often we have to sift through much that is useless.

 

Thankfully when I have seen a negative report about a ship -- I have not flamed that person like I have been flamed.

The only problem we had with the Zuiderdam -- in all honesty that's ship's food was the second worst we have had in 53 cruises. The worst was quite a number of years ago when a new chef came on our Alaskan cruise and for some unknown reason everything came out of the kitchen -- burned!! We were doing back-to-back cruises and it got to be a joke every morning -- the Pinnacle manager would stop by the Neptune Lounge -- show us the dining room menu -- ask where we wanted to dine -- and we said -- the Pinnacle.

[nordski]

You've posed an excellent question. There was a survey done of reviews, and while I no longer remember the specific results, in general it found that people were reporting few average hotels, average tours or average cruises. Almost everything was either 4 or 5 stars. Well that's just not possible. By definition there is a whole lot of average in the world.

I'm often amazed at how defensive many people are of their cruise line of choice...whatever that cruise line is. I think we don't want to acknowledge that we could have made a mistake in the way we chose to spend our valuable vacation time and dollars. So there is a kill the messenger mentality when a review is less than stellar.

There is also an American thing about being a good sport about things that happens, or an innate desire to be positive. But enough little things and it just isn't a good cruise. We had a very disappointing cruise about 10 years ago. Our cabin was over the speakers in the disco, we were moved to and inside cabin by an aft door under the hot tub and next to the ping pong table. We spent the cruise in sleep deprivation until we were moved to a balcony cabin for the last two days of an 11 day cruise. By then we'd unpacked 3 times. We were told we shouldn't complain because we'd been upgraded.

You make an excellent point. Sometimes I'm amazed at a 5 star rating given to a cruise I was on and, believe me, my budget is not 5 star nor, for various reasons, would I knowingly choose to go on one.

 

The unfortunate result is that perhaps our expectations are unduly inflated with the ensuing inevitable letdown.

 

Perhaps one of the advantages of the to and fro on well-worn issues on this board is that newbies here, like myself, through the comments get a feel for the nature of the posters and whether their values relate to my own. This is actually more useful than just a one off review.

[mountainmare]

I agree that often when you make a negative comment about some things on your cruise you get flamed. I think an honest review that points out both good and bad is most valuable.

However Sail, do go back and read your review from your Nov cruise. It was balanced and you did point out some things that were not the best, But with every bump you reported you told how that really didn't matter (missing dinner the first night and breakfast would matter to me--ruin my cruise, no, but matter--yes) I appreciate your go with the flow attitude, but to go back to your question--don't we all tip toe around a bit to avoid being scolded?

 

So please everyone, continue to write fair and balanced reviews. Because of the reviews I know that when I board the Ryndam on Jan 31 (but who's counting) there will probably be rust on my balcony, and the bathroom might be showing its age. I know that in advance, and now it won't bother me because I won't expect a super ship shape ship.

[sail7seas]

I agree that often when you make a negative comment about some things on your cruise you get flamed. I think an honest review that points out both good and bad is most valuable.

However Sail, do go back and read your review from your Nov cruise. It was balanced and you did point out some things that were not the best, But with every bump you reported you told how that really didn't matter (missing dinner the first night and breakfast would matter to me--ruin my cruise, no, but matter--yes) I appreciate your go with the flow attitude, but to go back to your question--don't we all tip toe around a bit to avoid being scolded?

 

So please everyone, continue to write fair and balanced reviews. Because of the reviews I know that when I board the Ryndam on Jan 31 (but who's counting) there will probably be rust on my balcony, and the bathroom might be showing its age. I know that in advance, and now it won't bother me because I won't expect a super ship shape ship.

 

 

I fully had that review in mind when I wrote this question.

 

Those things that I reported as annoying were just that. They weren't serious and not to the level of ruining any reasonable person's cruise IMO

 

In this question, I reference toilets out of order, non -functioning air conditioning in the caribbean. Hardly the same level as they forgot my bagel on our Room Service breakfast order. :rolleyes:

 

Everything in perspective and within reasonable limits might be a good measuring tool.

 

Avoid being scolded? M E :D When did that ever bother me? :confused: Being scolded here is very low on my 'ruin my day list'. I'm sure you don't mean I said my missing bagel didn't bother me so I would avoid a CC scolding? :D !!!!

 

[parrotfeathers]

The unfortunate result is that perhaps our expectations are unduly inflated with the ensuing inevitable letdown..

 

My Mom's favorite saying was "don't expect anything and you won't be disappointed."

[usha]

Well, I post what I really think. (big shocker, I know;):o)

If I get flamed, I don't enjoy it, but so far, I've lived through it.:cool:

[SwissMyst]

Well, I post what I really think. (big shocker, I know;):o)

If I get flamed, I don't enjoy it, but so far, I've lived through it.:cool:

 

You are one to wield the blow torch yourself, rather deftly. You know what they say about glass houses. If you give it out, ya gotta take it too. Chin up, usha.