Greek Economy could affect travel plans

[nimmoe2]

I suppose what we must all remember is that whilst a greek strike will be a pest we will still be on holiday in the sun . Most of the Greek people however are in dire straights , they have no money and are struggling . We must not abandon then , or the portugese or spanish . I live in the UK and things are tight here aswell for many people , we will weather the storm until things improve .

[TLCOhio]

[quote name='RSWBADGER']Just returned from a cruise stop in Athens, all looked very normal and the locals were very friendly towards tourists. There was no lack of tourists at all the sights, but we were only there for 5 - 6 hours.[/QUOTE]

[COLOR="Blue"][SIZE="3"][FONT="Georgia"]Glad to hear that things went well in your visit to wonderful Athens. BUT, not good news today from Athens.

From the Wall Street Journal and others in recent hours, they have this headline: [B][I]"Greek Unions Stage 24-hour Strike Over Pension Reforms"[/I][/B] with these highlights: [I]"Public- and private-sector services across Greece ground to a halt Thursday as hundreds of thousands of workers walked off the job to protest against Greek government pension reforms and austerity measures. Rail and ferry operations were suspended around the country, and local transport in the capital, Athens, was also disrupted by strikes and work stoppages. Teachers and lawyers joined in the strike, while workers at selected banks also walked off the job. An opinion poll published in the Sunday Proto Thema newspaper showed nine out of 10 Greeks blame the country's economic crisis on its politicians. Another poll in the same paper May 9 showed that 51.4% of the public think that the economic crisis must be confronted with further sacrifices, while only 28% think that strikes are the solution."[/I]

From the Bloomberg News/Business Week, they have this headline: [B][I]"Greek Unions Hold General Strike, Protest Austerity"[/I][/B] with these highlights: [I]"Thousands of Greeks marched through Athens today in the fourth general strike of the year to protest planned pension cuts and other austerity measures the government pledged to secure emergency European financing to avoid default. Most flights aren’t affected as air-traffic controllers didn’t join the walkout. Some domestic flights were canceled because of a strike by telecommunications workers, Olympic Airways said on its website. Greece runs one of the most generous pension systems in Europe, according to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development. Some retirees earn more than when they worked. Without an overhaul, Greece will spend 25 percent of gross domestic product on pension costs by 2050, according to the government, which hasn’t yet said when the law will be brought to the chamber for a vote."[/I]

More details from:
[url]http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20100520-705512.html?mod=WSJ_latestheadlines[/url]
[url]http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-05-20/greek-unions-hold-general-strike-protest-austerity-update2-.html[/url]

THANKS! Terry in Ohio[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[TLCOhio]

[COLOR="Blue"][SIZE="3"][FONT="Georgia"]For cruise visitors to Greece this summer, it appears that economy is "stable", for now. Long-term is another question. And the strikes are another complication. From the Sunday Times in London, they had this headline: [B][I]"Greece urged to give up euro"[/I][/B] with these highlights: [I]"THE Greek government has been advised by British economists to leave the euro and default on its €300 billion (£255 billion) debt to save its economy. The Centre for Economics and Business Research (CEBR), a London-based consultancy, has warned Greek ministers they will be unable to escape their debt trap without devaluing their own currency to boost exports. The only way this can happen is if Greece returns to its own currency. Greece’s departure from the euro would prove disastrous for German and French banks, to which it owes billions of euros"[/I] Lots of challenging questions for Europe on whether the euro survives and in what form with what countries.

[url]http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/economics/article7140270.ece[/url]

THANKS! Terry in Ohio[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[nordski]

Thanks Terry for these very informative posts.

Obviously a real conundrum in terms of economic policy. Fascinating that banks can have such a high exposure to one nation's debt.

[TLCOhio]

[quote name='cruisemom42']Thanks for keeping this thread current and reminding me to keep an eye out for scheduled strikes as my cruise gets closer. Not good news at all for cruise ship passengers.[/QUOTE]

[COLOR="Blue"][SIZE="3"][FONT="Georgia"][B][I]Yes, Cynthia, it's wise to keep checking on these things. [/I][/B] BUT, it seems that there is little advance notice on some of these strikes in Athens. Plus, the news media is offering covering other, newer stories more than what is now happening in Greece.

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[TLCOhio]

[COLOR="Blue"][SIZE="3"][FONT="Georgia"]From the Daily Mail in London, they have this headline: [B][I]"Euro falls to four-year low against the dollar"[/I][/B] with these highlights: [I]"The euro today fell to a new four-year low against the dollar when French Prime Minister Francois Fillon spooked the markets after suggesting the weakening euro was 'good news'. Mr Fillon said he was not concerned by the current level of the euro and that he saw only 'good news' in parity between the euro and the dollar. Fears over European banks, poor results from the US jobs market and talk of a 'Greek-style' debt crisis in Hungary drove down global stocks and sent the euro tumbling." [/I]

The Wall Street Journal just showed at mid-day the [B][I]euro dropping to $1.197[/I][/B] before a slight bounce up. For cruisers this summer, maybe this is good news, but we've already paid for most of costs in advance when the value of the euro and dollar were much different.

Full Story:
[url]http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1284066/Euro-falls-year-low-dollar.html?ito=feeds-newsxml[/url]

THANKS! Terry in Ohio[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Fblack]

Today the Greek rail workers went on strike.

"ATHENS, June 10 (Reuters) - Greek rail workers walked off the job on Thursday to protest against government plans to sell a 49 percent stake in loss-making state railway OSE, the first strike triggered by a new three-year privatization program....

The 24-hour strike halted trains in stations across Greece on Thursday. About 300 rail workers rallied outside the infrastructure ministry in Athens holding banners reading "Say No to the privatization" and "Stop the lay-offs". "


[url]http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSLDE6590LX20100610[/url]

[TLCOhio]

[COLOR="Blue"][SIZE="3"][FONT="Georgia"]From the New York Times this morning, they have this look at the honesty of the Greek leader with this headline: [B][I]"Greek Leader Finds Balm for Deficit: Straight Talk"[/I][/B]. Here are some key highlights: [I]"Newly elected and facing a huge budget deficit, Prime Minister George Papandreou arrived in Brussels for his first meeting with European leaders last December with few cards to play. He might have tried to play for time. Instead, he told them everything. Not only was the Greek deficit twice as high as previously reported, but his country’s finances were also a mess. Corruption was pervasive. Tax evasion, rampant. Improbably, perhaps, his strategy worked. Within months, he had managed to secure the bailout he needed while still maintaining good relations with his fellow European leaders — quite a feat, many observers say."[/I]

This is a very interesting and insightful story. Another point made was: [I]"Whether he will be successful in keeping his country from bankruptcy remains an open question. [I][B]He concedes that the austerity measures could push Greece into a depression.[/B][/I] And he still has a few extremely unpopular measures — such as pension reform — to push through Parliament."[/I] He grew up during a volatile part of Greek politics, seeing his grandfather and father jailed and exiled. He spent much of his early life in California. His mother is American and his father taught economics at Berkeley. He graduated from Amherst College and speaks French and Swedish in addition to Greek and English. This background on him is helpful to know as these issues play out during the coming months in Greece and Europe.

The euro has bounced back to $1.23 mid-day after being down as low as $1.19 during the recent past couple of weeks. The English pounds is at $1.483 today, per the Wall Street Journal.

Full story on the Greek leader:
[url]http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/16/world/europe/16papandreou.html?hp=&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1276686494-FdEn8KfWrnuxKRyCa/nG3w[/url]

THANKS! Terry in Ohio[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[nordski]

TLCOhio:


Thanks for the great info and link!

[TLCOhio]

[quote name='nordski']TLCOhio: Thanks for the great info and link![/QUOTE]

[COLOR="Blue"][SIZE="3"][FONT="Georgia"]Appreciate the comment. Glad it's helpful. Sorry to see what coming later this month.

From the Wall Street Journal, they have this headline: [B][I]"Greece's Largest Unions Plan Paralyzing Strike For June 29"[/I][/B] with these highlights: [I]"Greece's two largest unions, which have about 1.2 million members, have agreed to hold a 24-hour, combined paralyzing strike on June 29 to protest prospective labor and pension reforms. This will be the fifth general strike this year and is likely to again bring the country to its knees as businesses, public services and transportation, among several other sectors, will grind to a halt."[/I]

From the Reuters news wire, they have this June 17 headline: [B][I]"Greece 'on track' with reforms, unions call strike"[/I][/B] with these highlights: [I]"Public and private sector unions announced a general strike on June 29 to protest the pension and labor reforms agreed as part of the bailout, in what would be their fifth day-long protest this year. The unions represent 2.5 million workers, or half the Greek workforce. The government on Wednesday revised labor rules, making it easier and less costly for businesses to fire workers while cutting the minimum wage for new hires in an effort to make the economy more competitive."[/I]

If half of the workers in a country are on strike, that is a large number and will have some impacts. The two stories use different numbers for workers on strike. Either way, it's a big number.

You can read the full stories at:
[url]http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20100617-711778.html?mod=WSJ_latestheadlines[/url]
[url]http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE65G4ZM20100617[/url]

THANKS! Terry in Ohio[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[therhodes]

Referring to TLCOhios post #252.

We were in Athens May 29 - June 2 and the only strike that occurred while we were there that impacted anything was the port and ferry workers strike. A number of people were making alternate arrangements for flights or changing their ferry travel days. All was back to normal the next day.

Other than that we saw no impact whatsoever in Athens. We wandered the touristy areas (Plaka etc) and non-touristy areas and all appeared quite normal. Nothing happing in Sytagma Square, businesses all open, restaurants packed, all ancient sites open,taxis all over the place, buses running etc. Many, many tourists. Our hotel was full to capacity.

I was initially a little concerned about this part of our trip being impacted, but there was nothing to worry about at all.

Linda

[MarkBearSF]

Does anyone have any knowledge about what the likelihood of disruption outside of Athens might be for those of us with other ports of call on that day?

We'll be on the Crystal Serenity which is scheduled to call on Corfu on June 29. I suspect at the island itself, that there would be minimal disruption. However, does anyone know what the likelihood that the actual ability of the ship to dock/anchor and be cleared by authorities might be affected by government or maritime union action?

Mark

[therhodes]

Mark I think your only concern should be the port workers. If they strike then it would be unlikely that the ship would dock. If it is the ferry workers only you may not be impacted at all.

You may want to check on the buses and taxis if you plan to use them at any time as I'm not sure if the island ones are run independently from the mainland ones. If they are then highly unlikely a bus/taxi strike would impact the islands.

We traveled for almost 4 weeks on the mainland and 3 of the islands and were not impacted by any of the various strikes/protests that took place.

Linda.

[zqvol]

Please understand that even when there are stikes things do not come to a complete halt. There is no desire to impact the tourist trade, and any impacts, even in Athens and Thessoliniki are minimal to tourists.

[TLCOhio]

[quote name='zqvol']Please understand that even when there are stikes things do not come to a complete halt. There is no desire to impact the tourist trade, and any impacts, even in Athens and Thessoliniki are minimal to tourists.[/QUOTE]

[COLOR="Blue"][SIZE="3"][FONT="Georgia"]Agree with this post. The tourism business in Greece is one of the few "successful" business segments they have and this is now "peak season". Most of the strike focus is about the public sector employees. Hopefully things will work out well for those visiting Greece this summer.

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[chriskwarren]

This was posted today:
[url]http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/greek-anti-austerity-strikes-hit-tourists/article1614290/[/url]

[QUOTE]
About 200 union members barred travellers from ferries at Piraeus, the main Athens port, in sympathy with striking merchant marine engineers and frustrating tourists heading for the islands. And in Athens, 5,000 Communists staged a march.

“There are no ships leaving Piraeus port,” a coastguard official said. Union members blocked the boarding ramps of the ferries and planned to keep up their protest until midnight when the engineers’ strike ends.

Affected were eight scheduled sailings to the popular Cycladic islands, which include Mykonos and Paros, and others to nearby destinations in the Argosaronic gulf. A ferry to Crete was also cancelled.

[/QUOTE]

While I do agree that most strikers will not target tourists, it seems to me that it is no longer the case.

I have some friends who wish to see some islands this summer so I hope none of this impacts them. Very silly to block tourists if you ask me.

[zqvol]

[quote name='chriskwarren']This was posted today:
[URL]http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/greek-anti-austerity-strikes-hit-tourists/article1614290/[/URL]



While I do agree that most strikers will not target tourists, it seems to me that it is no longer the case.

I have some friends who wish to see some islands this summer so I hope none of this impacts them. Very silly to block tourists if you ask me.[/quote]

Please note that this impacted the ferries, NOT the cruise ships which dock in a different area of the port.

[psygist]

Does anyone know, or have a guess, as to whether next weeks general strike (June 29) will affect flights arriving in Athens airport?

[rich_cathybrock]

[quote name='zqvol']Please note that this impacted the ferries, NOT the cruise ships which dock in a different area of the port.[/quote]

I understand what you are saying, but have to believe the cruise passengers were seriously inconvenienced by this.

I will keep my eye out for postings from those who return in the next week or so. At a minimum, this has to be a little scary...:eek:

[RSWBADGER]

[B][SIZE=2][QUOTE] [/SIZE][/B]

[B][SIZE=3]Greece starts putting island land up for sale to save economy[/SIZE][/B]

[B][SIZE=1]Desperate attempt to repay debts also driven by inability to find funds to develop infrastructure on islands[/SIZE][/B]
Now Greece is making it easier for the rich and famous to fulfill their dreams by preparing to sell, or offering long-term leases on, some of its 6,000 sunkissed islands in a desperate attempt to repay its mountainous debts
[B][SIZE=2][/QUOTE][/SIZE][/B]

[URL]http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jun/24/greece-islands-sale-save-economy[/URL]

[IMG]http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2010/6/24/1277409453541/Mykonos-005.jpg[/IMG]
Greece is raising cash by selling off an area of state-owned land on Mykonos for luxury tourism. Photograph: Getty Images

[MarkBearSF]

We just left Corfu. We docked (next to another ship - the ex-Fairstar/Star Princess, now Ocean Village), the shuttle busses and excursion busses were running and the shops and cafes were open.

[Fblack]

Athens got the worst of it yesterday. The airport was open for International flight but ferry's were shut down.

"Jun 29, 2010: Latest Greek strike causes more misery for tourists"

"Violence flared as thousands of protesters took to the streets of Athens in the latest general strike - causing more misery for tourists.

The action shut down transport links and services causing problems for many visiting tourists.

Hundreds of holidaymakers were left stranded by a blockade at the country's busiest port of Piraeus in Athens.

The blockade was created by some 500 communist-affiliated trade unionists who stormed passenger entry points, stopping a fleet of ferries from sailing to the Greek islands."


[url]http://www.eturbonews.com/16991/latest-greek-strike-causes-more-misery-tourists[/url]

[zqvol]

[quote name='Fblack']Athens got the worst of it yesterday. The airport was open for International flight but ferry's were shut down.

"Jun 29, 2010: Latest Greek strike causes more misery for tourists"

"Violence flared as thousands of protesters took to the streets of Athens in the latest general strike - causing more misery for tourists.

The action shut down transport links and services causing problems for many visiting tourists.

Hundreds of holidaymakers were left stranded by a blockade at the country's busiest port of Piraeus in Athens.

The blockade was created by some 500 communist-affiliated trade unionists who stormed passenger entry points, stopping a fleet of ferries from sailing to the Greek islands."


[URL]http://www.eturbonews.com/16991/latest-greek-strike-causes-more-misery-tourists[/URL][/quote]

Did you notice that all of the disruptions were, for the most part aimed at local Greeks or travelers who might be using the ferries. None of this was directed at cruise ship passengers. If you stay clear of the protesters you will be safe and able to enjoy your day.

[Fblack]

While much of the problems in Athens were at the Port, the City also had some problems. Another story said:


"Unions representing several sectors, including hospital staff, construction workers, accountants and the food industry, joined the PAME strike, while state television pulled all programing off the air for 24 hours. Railway workers were also carrying out two-hour work stoppages during the day, disrupting inter-city trains.

Hundreds of strikers marched through central Athens, chanting slogans and holding banners calling for a general uprising and for the government to call off the austerity measures."

[rich_cathybrock]

And you know what? If there are reports of issues there, I will simply uses my unnlimited spa pass while docked in Piraeus, and save my money for another port in Mykonos or Santorini.

Their striking will only perpetuate an already dire problem, dragging them further into debt, and requiring additional austerity measures to remain solvent.


I'll say it again - we here in the US could learn a lot from what's going on there...