Greek Economy could affect travel plans

[TLCOhio]

[COLOR="Blue"][SIZE="3"][FONT="Georgia"]From the AP news wire this morning, here is the latest headline on Greece, the euro and patching up the finances there: [B][I]"Papandreou seeks French backing for debt crisis"[/I][/B]. The lead sentences have these highlights: [I]"Greek Prime Minster George Papandreou headed to Paris on Sunday, the third stop of a four-city tour seeking firmer European Union and U.S. support for harsh austerity measures that have sparked violent protests at home. Athens is adamant that it has done all it can with the new measures to reduce its massive 12.7 percent budget deficit. It is now seeking concrete actions from European partners to calm markets and bring down the country's high borrowing costs, which are about twice that of Germany's. Papandreou, who visited Luxembourg and Berlin on Friday, is likely to find a sympathetic ear in his meeting Sunday evening with French President Nicolas Sarkozy. He then flies to Washington for talks with President Barack Obama on Tuesday."[/I]

So we will be reading more about this issue. Here is the link to read the full AP story:
[url]http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iXUJvBknZVGqsBenIusBgBvWj5WQD9E9PTJ80[/url]

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[TLCOhio]

[COLOR="Blue"][SIZE="3"][FONT="Georgia"]Here are two major stories updating the latest events about the financial situation facing Greece. First, from the London Daily Mail, the headline of [I][B]"Greece rocked by riots as up to 60,000 people take to streets to protest against government"[/B][/I]. The opening part of the story says: [I]"Street clashes broke out between rioting youths and police in central Athens today as tens of thousands demonstrated during a nationwide strike against the cash-strapped government. Hundreds of masked and hooded youths punched and kicked motorcycle police, knocking several off their bikes, as police responded with volleys of tear gas and stun grenades. The violence spread after the end of the march to a nearby square, where police faced off with stone-throwing anarchists and suffocating clouds of tear gas sent patrons scurrying from open-air cafes."[/I]
Read more on this story at: [url]http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1257243/Greek-riots-Up-60-000-people-streets-protest-government.html[/url]

With the headline of [I][B]"Patchwork Pension Plan Adds to Greek Debt Woes"[/B][/I] this story will be in Friday's New York Times. One story highlight:
[I]"Greece’s patchwork system of early retirement has contributed to the out-of-control state spending that has led to Europe’s sovereign debt crisis. Its pension promises will grow sharply in coming years, and investors can see the country has not set aside enough to cover those costs, making it harder for Greece to borrow at a reasonable rate."[/I]
You can read the full story at:
[url]http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/12/business/global/12pension.html?hp[/url]

THANKS! Terry in Ohio[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Fblack]

For me, I would not travel to Athens until this is settled.

ATHENS, March 15 (Reuters) - Greek civil servants will strike again for 24 hours in March or April to protest against austerity measures aimed at tackling the country's worst financial crisis in decades, their union said on Monday...

The planned strike will be the union's fourth since the beginning of the year...

Last week, a one-day national strike by public and private sector unions brought the country to a standstill....

[url]http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSLDE62E22T20100315[/url]

[SOOKIENY]

Rich and Cathy...from one Oceansider to another, I agree!!!! Our kids are honeymooning there in July and we are scheduled to go over in October. Would hate to miss those ports due to the strikes. I also agree with your post of Feb 26th...the US needs to pay attention to what is going on around them!

[TLCOhio]

[quote name='Fblack']For me, I would not travel to Athens until this is settled.
ATHENS, March 15 (Reuters) - Greek civil servants will strike again for 24 hours in March or April to protest against austerity measures aimed at tackling the country's worst financial crisis in decades, their union said on Monday...
[/QUOTE]

[COLOR="Blue"][SIZE="3"][FONT="Georgia"]Here is the latest in the news on this subject. Hopefully it will get "FIXED", short-term and/or long-term. This is from the Wall Street Journal late this morning headlined: [B][I]"Merkel Says Euro-Zone Expulsion Should Be an Option"[/I][/B].

As posted from Berlin, the lead sentences say: [I]"Countries that threaten euro-zone stability should face expulsion, German Chancellor Angela Merkel said Wednesday, and while Greece won't face such harsh consequences, European nations shouldn't make a 'rash decision' to help Athens out of its debt crisis. 'We need an agreement that as an ultima ratio it's possible to exclude a country from the euro zone if again and again it doesn't fulfill the requirements,' Ms. Merkel said in an address to Germany's lower house of parliament."[/I] This is tough talk from the German leader and their country has the biggest checkbook in Europe to back it up.

The full story is at:
[url]http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704743404575127190480343692.html?mod=WSJ_hps_MIDDLEForthNews[/url]
Don't know that everyone who is a non-subscriber to the WSJ can get the full story. It will be widely reported by other key media outlets.

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[rich_cathybrock]

[quote name='SOOKIENY']Rich and Cathy...from one Oceansider to another, I agree!!!! Our kids are honeymooning there in July and we are scheduled to go over in October. Would hate to miss those ports due to the strikes. I also agree with your post of Feb 26th...the US needs to pay attention to what is going on around them![/quote]

Small world, huh? We are on Brower and Oakview...wonder how many times I sat next to one of you on the LIRR.

Congratulations on the upcoming marriage of your children. Let's pray their babies will come into a world that emerges better from the lessons learned today...

Enjoy your vacations!

[SOOKIENY]

LOL, never take the LIRR, I work in Cedarhurst. We are on Sally by the park.

We are going to watch the goings on in Greece before we make a final decision about our cruise. May have to "jump ship" so to speak if things get too crazy over there. Hate to do it, I really love TA's for the relaxing sea days.

On a side note,with the Euro taking a dive, is anyone buying Euros before they leave home?

[numbersix]

[quote name='TLCOhio'][COLOR=blue][SIZE=3][FONT=Georgia]Here is the latest in the news on this subject. Hopefully it will get "FIXED", short-term and/or long-term. This is from the Wall Street Journal late this morning headlined: [B][I]"Merkel Says Euro-Zone Expulsion Should Be an Option"[/I][/B]. [/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[SIZE=3][FONT=Georgia][COLOR=blue]As posted from Berlin, the lead sentences say: [I]"Countries that threaten euro-zone stability should face expulsion, German Chancellor Angela Merkel said Wednesday, and while Greece won't face such harsh consequences, European nations shouldn't make a 'rash decision' to help Athens out of its debt crisis. 'We need an agreement that as an ultima ratio it's possible to exclude a country from the euro zone if again and again it doesn't fulfill the requirements,' Ms. Merkel said in an address to Germany's lower house of parliament."[/I] This is tough talk from the German leader and their country has the biggest checkbook in Europe to back it up. [/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=3][FONT=Georgia][COLOR=blue]The full story is at: [/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Georgia][COLOR=blue][URL]http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704743404575127190480343692.html?mod=WSJ_hps_MIDDLEForthNews[/URL][/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Georgia][COLOR=blue]Don't know that everyone who is a non-subscriber to the WSJ can get the full story. It will be widely reported by other key media outlets. [/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=3][FONT=Georgia][COLOR=blue]THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio[/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE][/quote]

It only gets 'curiouser and curiouser'. Tough talk, indeed. The European Union is being pushed and pulled everywhich way on this one--all in the name of keeping the Union together. In more 'normal' times, the Greeks would have been bailed out by now, but these are not 'normal' times. The 'bond vigilantes' (global bond managers, who by virtue of the $billions they manage --like Bill Gross at PIMCO, et al) wield big enough sticks that the European Union don't wish to/can't appear to be soft on the issue of fiscal responsibility. So they are making a big show of admonishing Greece (and, at the same rime 'warning' others, like Portugal, Spain, et cetera, who are almost sure to follow at the bailout trough). Greece will be bailed out, for sure, but not before the show goes on for long enough to try to convince markets of the EMU's resolve to maintain a 'strong' currency.

Who needs reality TV when we have this?

Kevin

[maggie3]

There is a lot of ignorance regarding the meaning of the word "socialist". Indeed, enough said.

[TLCOhio]

[quote name='maggie3']There is a lot of ignorance regarding the meaning of the word "socialist". Indeed, enough said.[/QUOTE]

[COLOR="Blue"][SIZE="3"][FONT="Georgia"]Officially, if you check, the current Prime Minister is George Papandreou. He is the leader of the [I][B]Panhellenic Socialist Movement Party[/B][/I]. That's his party and their selected name. You will also see that his Greek political party is a member of the Party of European Socialists and the Socialist International.

From this Reuters news wire story today, it was noted: [I]"[I][B]The euro fell on Friday over doubts Greece would win euro-zone aid[/B][/I], capping its worst week since January, and concerns about the UK economy hit sterling. A report on Thursday that Greece saw limited prospects for euro-zone assistance raised concerns about the country's ability to service its debt. On Friday, the euro fell as far as $1.3502, its lowest level in more than two weeks. It was down 1.7 percent this week, its worst showing since late January."[/I]
You can see the full story at:
[url]http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN1917003520100319?type=usDollarRpt[/url]

THANKS! Terry in Ohio[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[maggie3]

Sorry, I meant to say, there is a great deal of ignorance among some residents of the U.S. regarding the meaning and use of the word "socialist".

[TLCOhio]

[COLOR="Blue"][SIZE="3"][FONT="Georgia"]To update on the bail-out of Greece, their strikes and budget balancing, etc., here is the latest major headline in several different newspapers. This is the headline from Business Week and the Independent in London: "[I][B]Europe at Loggerheads over Greek Aid. A widening schism between Paris and Berlin—and supporters on either side—over a European vs. IMF rescue for Greece threatens the euro itself.[/B][/I]"

Among the story details: [I]"Europe's leaders are scrambling to reach agreement on a sustainable plan to end the Greek crisis and restore stability to the eurozone. As they prepare for their summit in Brussels next Thursday and Friday, European heads of government – as well as central bankers and Commission officials – are deeply divided. The schism between Paris and Berlin – traditionally the axis that drives the EU forward – has become acute. A spokesman for President Nicolas Sarkozy said that the eurozone must act to restore investor confidence and shrink Greek borrowing costs. The EU Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso denied that an appeal by Greece to the IMF was a "matter of prestige" – but maintained "it's essential" that Europe takes the lead. The European Central Bank President Jean-Claude Trichet has described IMF intervention as "inappropriate"."[/I]

You can read the full story:
[url]http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/mar2010/gb20100322_850863.htm[/url]

The Wall Street Journal also detailed this angle under this headline: "[I][B]Europe's Stragglers Find Villain: Germany's Competitiveness"[/B][/I]. Among the story details: [I]"Greece and Europe's other intensive-care economies face a threat that can't be solved by cutting public spending or raising taxes: a loss of competitiveness. And in the eyes of those struggling economies, the villain is Germany—the euro zone's largest economy—which has emerged in recent years as the region's most competitive. By raising the competitive bar, Germany makes it that much harder for its neighbors to compete to sell their goods and services at home and abroad, a factor that in turn affects their ability to grow out of their current debt-laden holes. To be sure, German wages are high, but even higher productivity means it is relatively cheaper to hire workers and produce high-value manufactured products there, even compared with traditionally lower-cost Greece, Portugal or Spain."[/I] The full story is at:
[url]http://online.wsj.com/article/SB20001424052748704534904575131980473107158.html[/url]

THANKS! Terry in Ohio[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[TLCOhio]

[COLOR="Blue"][SIZE="3"][FONT="Georgia"]Under this headline from Reuters [B][I]"Dollar rises broadly; Portugal downgrade hurts euro"[/I][/B], here are some of the latest developments. The lead part of the story: [I]"The U.S. dollar rose across the board on Wednesday, pushing the euro to a 10-month low after a rating downgrade for Portugal added to worries about debt levels and growth in the euro zone's smaller countries. Fitch Ratings lowered Portugal's sovereign credit rating to AA-minus from AA, with a negative outlook."[/I]

It was noted: [I][B]"The market will keep a close eye on a European Union summit on Thursday and Friday after Germany signaled for the first time that it may accept European financial aid for Greece as a last resort."[/B][/I]

You can get the full story at:
[url]http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN2419483720100324?type=usDollarRpt[/url]

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Fblack]

Now lawyers in Greece have gone on strike. They don't like a new tax on their services. And Doctors are now in a slowdown over pay cuts

ATHENS, Greece, March 23 (UPI) -- Lawyers throughout Greece began a 3-day strike Tuesday to protest government austerity measures that will add a tax to their services.

Meanwhile, the number of doctors refusing to work was growing, with many hospitals across the country operating with skeleton staff on emergency-only status, the report said. The doctors are also unhappy with planned pay and benefits cuts...

[url]http://www.upi.com/Top_News/International/2010/03/23/Greek-lawyers-walk-off-jobs-over-tax/UPI-68771269347455/[/url]

[nordski]

Of course, political turmoil is no stranger to Greece, but the last time we were there, in the 70's, a military junta had taken over and now that we are finally returning there's an economic crisis. Perhaps the Greeks should pay us to stay away :(, since we seem to bring nothing but trouble.

Part of the EU dimension of the problem are not only the southern Med states but also that staggering Celtic Tiger: Ireland. Each, in their own way, have at times seemed to suffer sometimes from overheated rhetoric, a problem which should be a concern to all of us.

[numbersix]

[quote name='Fblack']Now lawyers in Greece have gone on strike. They don't like a new tax on their services. And Doctors are now in a slowdown over pay cuts [/quote]

Too bad the politicians don't go on strike--permanently!! The Greeks (and all of us) would be a lot better off!:mad:

[TLCOhio]

[quote name='nordski']Of course, political turmoil is no stranger to Greece, but the last time we were there, in the 70's, a military junta had taken over and now that we are finally returning there's an economic crisis. Perhaps the Greeks should pay us to stay away :(, since we seem to bring nothing but trouble. Part of the EU dimension of the problem are not only the southern Med states but also that staggering Celtic Tiger: Ireland. Each, in their own way, have at times seemed to suffer sometimes from overheated rhetoric, a problem which should be a concern to all of us.[/QUOTE]

[COLOR="Blue"][SIZE="3"][FONT="Georgia"]YES, Greece has had a long, unique and twisted political history. As we neared the end of our visit to the Acropolis, a younger MD from Louisville, Ky. was sharing info with us. We talked with him and he was of proud Greek heritage. He noted that the Greeks survived hundreds of years of rule and control by the Romans, Venice's empire and then the Turks. The Greek kept their language, culture, religion, etc., alive during all of those years. This was a unique accomplish that few others have been able to do.

On the financial breaking news front, here's the headline in tomorrow's newspapers: [I][B]"Germany and France Said to Agree on Plan for Greece"[/B][/I]. The lead of this New York Times story said: [I]"A financial rescue package for Greece began to emerge on Thursday as France and Germany agreed on a joint plan for intervention, if needed, using money from the International Monetary Fund and bilateral loans from the 16 countries that use the euro, said one diplomat speaking on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue."[/I]

The story paints this as more of a short-term fix with such complications noted in this way: "[I]The prospect of tighter rules was especially worrisome for Greek banks because they hold a lot of Greek government bonds, the ratings of which have slipped in recent months because of the country’s deficit woes. Further downgrades could mean the bonds might eventually no longer qualify as collateral for Greek banks seeking ultra-cheap liquidity from the central bank."[/I]

Lots is still unclear and vague including whether this will be more of a "band-aid, short-term patch-up". The newest Wall Street Journal story noted: [I]"The compromise solution that brings reluctant Germans on board for a possible Greek aid package also puts the wealthy bloc in the embarrassing position of turning to an organization that typically engineers rescues in the developing world."[/I]

You can read the full story at:
[url]http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/26/business/global/26drachma.html?hp[/url]

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[numbersix]

Good points, Terry. The Greeks have survived for a long, long time, and will get through this, too. It will require a reckoning, a lot of ranting and raving, a lot of belt-tightening, but they will get through it.

Thanks for the updates.

Kevin

[TLCOhio]

[COLOR="Blue"][SIZE="3"][FONT="Georgia"]Here are a couple of the better summaries on the status of the Greek-Euro "issues" in Europe. First, from the Wall Street Journal is this headline: [I][B]"Greek Aid Agreement Takes Heat Off Euro"[/B][/I]. The key part of the story said: [I]"The euro gained as the euro zone's emergency financial-aid package for Greece eased immediate concerns about over the country's fiscal problems. The euro rose as much as 1% against the U.S. dollar, rebounding from a 10-month low against the greenback. The safety net for Greece put in place by the European Union and the International Monetary Fund allayed worries that the country could have difficulties raising the funds necessary to meet debt obligations coming due in the next two months."[/I]

Next from the Christian Science Monitor, the have this headline: [I]"[B]Merkel praised in Germany for hard line on Greece debt crisis.[/B] German Chancellor Angela Merkel received wide praise at home ahead of May elections for negotiating a bailout package for Greece that limits the costs to Germany."[/I] A key story highlight: [I]"In recent days Ms. Merkel faced down critics from within her coalition government and from other European allies, who sought to keep the bailout package within the eurozone. Yet, before leaving for Brussels yesterday to conduct final negotiations, Merkel said Greece would be helped only if all other options were exhausted and if the International Monetary Fund (IMF) provided financial backing. Merkel got her wish."[/I]

Business Week has a very good Question & Answer segment updating on this situation. This includes: [I]"[B]Greece's debt crisis has global implications as a highly visible example of the massive buildup in public deficits around the world[/B] after governments loosened the purse strings to mitigate the global credit crunch. That means governments have to cut spending, raise taxes and divert revenues to pay off interest on their debts -- not a recipe for growth."[/I]
[url]http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9ELVQQO0.htm[/url]

You can read the full stories at:
[url]http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704100604575145293255763362.html?mod=WSJ_Currencies_LEFTTopNews[/url]
[url]http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2010/0326/Merkel-praised-in-Germany-for-hard-line-on-Greece-debt-crisis[/url]

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[MI Susie]

It makes me very sad when people who obviously know very little of the political, social, and economic history of another land make comments that reflect so poorly on their own country. Please don't flaunt your ignorance on these boards.

[MI Susie]

To clarify - my comment above was in response to comments made earlier this month, not the most recent ones. Thanks for the links to the actual news about events in Greece now.

[TLCOhio]

[quote name='sdushane']To clarify - my comment above was in response to comments made earlier this month, not the most recent ones. Thanks for the links to the actual news about events in Greece now.[/QUOTE]

[COLOR="Blue"][SIZE="3"][FONT="Georgia"][I][B]THANKS for your clarification![/B][/I] I wasn't trying to judge, just update on how this tense situation is evolving and might impact future travelers to Greece and Europe. I know lots of the history there and it has been complex and ever-changing over the past many hundreds of years in Europe. Enjoy! Terry in Ohio[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[TLCOhio]

[COLOR="Blue"][SIZE="3"][FONT="Georgia"]Things seem more stable in Greece and Europe with the euro, etc. Per today's Wall Street Journal, the current cost for a euro closed at 4 pm Friday at $1.3491.

Here are a couple of news story highlights and updates: From the London Times, this headline [B][I]"Greek debt crisis: Athens not yet in the clear"[/I][/B] with these March 30 highlights: [I]"Greece returned to the debt market seeking another €5 billion and, in the wake of the recent pact among eurozone leaders to extend support to Greece, if necessary, you might think that the job of raising funds would become easier. On the contrary, the bond market is treating Greece like a hot potato. Bids for the seven-year notes only just covered the paper offered. According to market sources, the order book was only €6.5 billion to €7 billion and, to make matters worse, yields on benchmark Greek government debt yesterday were rising."[/I]

From the Christian Science Monitor, this headline: [B][I]"Greek debt crisis: pushing more European integration? As the Greek debt crisis rolls on, some in Britain worry that the crisis is being used to undermine economic sovereignty and pushes European integration further"[/I][/B] with these highlights: [I]"If Greece bond prices are any indication, investors are saying the Greek debt crisis isn’t over. On Thursday, the world's largest bond fund, Pimco, said that European efforts to back Greece and its austerity plans, were not enough – a warning that bodes ill for the country's future ability to raise funds at lower interest rates.[/I] [I]The continuing Greek crisis is reviving tensions over economic sovereignty – as well as exposing the difficulty of managing 16 diverse economies that share a single currency, the euro."[/I]

You can see the full stories at:
[url]http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/economics/article7080705.ece[/url]
[url]http://www.csmonitor.com/Money/2010/0402/Greek-debt-crisis-pushing-more-European-integration[/url]

For those traveling to Greece later this Spring and during the Summer, there might still be some strikes and tension, but hopefully things will be smooth. The tourism business is vital for the Greek economy and they cannot afford to ruin that economic anchor. THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Morgans]

Try to stop worrying - Merkel has saved Greece with a guarantee of a bailout. This of course won't help the Euro but all is well for the time being. In the meantime Greece should be able to try and finance its debts.
Europeans are still going on holiday there and nothing seems to have changed too much holidaywise.

[TLCOhio]

[quote name='Morgans']Try to stop worrying - Merkel has saved Greece with a guarantee of a bailout. This of course won't help the Euro but all is well for the time being. In the meantime Greece should be able to try and finance its debts. Europeans are still going on holiday there and nothing seems to have changed too much holidaywise.[/QUOTE]

[COLOR="Blue"][SIZE="3"][FONT="Georgia"]Agree with the Morgans that it will all "work out", but there will be some "up and down" points during the coming months. Hopefully, it won't impact tourists too much in a negative manner. Below are the latest news development, including the euro dropping below $1.34 and why.

From the late am Wall Street Journal, this headline: [I][B]"Greek Bond Yields Soar to 7.1%"[/B][/I] with these details: [I]"Greek government bond yields jumped Tuesday and the cost of insuring Greek government debt rocketed, as market concerns accumulate over domestic capital flight and the country's ability to fund its budget deficit without aid from the International Monetary Fund. The yield on Greek 10-year government bonds hit 7.1%, equivalent to a spread of 3.97 percentage points over comparable German bunds, the euro zone benchmark—and up from a closing yield of 6.56% Thursday, the previous trading day."[/I]

[B][U]Euro Value Drop[/U][/B]: [I]"The euro weakened sharply as mounting concerns over Greece's sovereign debt prompted investors to shun the common currency. The common currency hit $1.3357 intraday, the lowest since March 26, and fell as much as 1.5% against the yen. The slide began overnight, as European investors returned from a four-day holiday weekend to reports that Greece wanted to avoid the International Monetary Fund being part of the financial aid package put together by the European Union last month."[/I] Later in this story: [I]"senior Greek official failed to allay investors' fears because of news that Greek banks are facing a wave of cash deposit redemptions by the country's most wealthy citizens and corporations."[/I]

Full story at:
[url]http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303493904575167381495748168.html[/url]

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]