Celebrity may not allow boarding.

[chessbriar]

Question about this. What if someone missed the embarkation port, missed flight or something along those lines, then caught the ship at it's next port. Isn't that similar to what's the end game here?

 

Just playing devils advocate.

[Gonzo70]

I asked him about the OP’s question and he responded that the USMA would consider embarking in San Diego a violation of the PVSA, and Celebrity Cruises/RCL would be subject to a fine of $300 for every passenger boarding (or leaving) the ship at that port. He said that the PVSA clearly prohibits the embarkation and/or disembarkation of passengers in a second (consecutive) US port without an intervening stop in a foreign/non-US port.

 

I think either the person you asked made a mistake or you did not provide them with sufficient information. In the OP's case, the ship is travelling to Cartagena, Colombia (a distant foreign port) in between when they would board in San Diego, CA and finish the cruise in Florida. As such the PVSA is not violated.

[Gonzo70]

Question about this. What if someone missed the embarkation port, missed flight or something along those lines, then caught the ship at it's next port. Isn't that similar to what's the end game here?

 

Just playing devils advocate.

 

It all depends on the itinerary. The person missing the embarkation port would be in violation of the PVSA if they boarded at a U.S. Port and the cruise ended at a different U.S. Port without calling on a Distant Foreign Port in between. It would also be a violation of the PVSA if they boarded at a U.S. Port and it ended at the same U.S. port, but did not travel to any foreign ports in between, but did stop at at least one other U.S. port.

 

If either of these are the situation, the only way the person would be permitted to bard would be if they agreed to pay the fine ($300 per person) and the Captain agreed to the violation of the PVSA. Sometimes cruise lines will allow people to pay the fine and board, other times they do not wish to violate the PVSA even if the passenger is willing to pay the fine.

 

Some countries other than the U.S. have similar cabotage laws (i.e. Italy), but so far as cruising is concerns, the U.S. version is the most restrictive.

[jimmyjam]

to EVERYONE that posted a reply to my thread. I thought everyone was so gracious with their posts, to help me understand and get to the bottom of this problem.

 

Today I did recieve an Email from Celebrity says it is going to ok to board in San Diego:D yaaaa.

 

They sent me a"Down line authorization" saying it is ok to board..and they are mailing me the original..

 

We'll see what happens in 5 months!!!!:cool:

 

Happy Cruisin to all!!!!:)

[Cuizer2]

Last evening I had dinner with an old friend who is a senior manager with the US Maritime Administration (USMA) that has the responsibility for administering and enforcing both the Jones Act and the Passenger Vessel Services Act (PVSA). He has been with the USMA for over 30 years and is intimately familiar with regulations contained in both Acts. He and his wife also are frequent cruisers and have had to talk about the PVSA many times

I asked him about the OP’s question and he responded that the USMA would consider embarking in San Diego a violation of the PVSA, and Celebrity Cruises/RCL would be subject to a fine of $300 for every passenger boarding (or leaving) the ship at that port. He said that the PVSA clearly prohibits the embarkation and/or disembarkation of passengers in a second (consecutive) US port without an intervening stop in a foreign/non-US port. The only exceptions are for medical and/or family-related emergencies and the movement of cruise ship personnel.

His answer is supported by this recent article that I found at Expert Cruiser.com

www.expertcruiser.com/tag/passenger-vessel-services-act/

Based on this article, it looks like the OP will have to get special permission from Celebrity/RCL and be willing to pay the $300 per-person fine that will be imposed by the USMA. It also looks like that boarding in San Diego will also require the permission of the Infinity’s captain at the time of embarkation.

 

Your response is wrong. The CBP is responsible for enforcing the PVSA. Since the ship will stop at a distant foreign port AFTER it leaves San Diego and before the ship arrives in Ft. Lauderdale, the trip complies with the PVSA.

 

As to your example, the reason the family could not board in Key West is because that would mean the ship would be transporting the family from one US city to another without stopping at a distant foreign port.

[Cuizer2]

Question about this. What if someone missed the embarkation port, missed flight or something along those lines, then caught the ship at it's next port. Isn't that similar to what's the end game here?

 

Just playing devils advocate.

 

The issue is very clear. A foreign flagged ship cannot transport someone from one US city to another US city without stopping in a DISTANT foreign port first.

 

If the ship leave Seattle, stops in San Diego, and a person boards in San Diego, then the ship stops in a DISTANT foreign port, and ends at another US city, then the cruise complies with the PVSA.

[Cuizer2]

to EVERYONE that posted a reply to my thread. I thought everyone was so gracious with their posts, to help me understand and get to the bottom of this problem.

 

Today I did recieve an Email from Celebrity says it is going to ok to board in San Diego:D yaaaa.

 

They sent me a"Down line authorization" saying it is ok to board..and they are mailing me the original..

 

We'll see what happens in 5 months!!!!:cool:

 

Happy Cruisin to all!!!!:)

 

Finally - the correct answer.

[fleckle]

It all depends on the itinerary. The person missing the embarkation port would be in violation of the PVSA if they boarded at a U.S. Port and the cruise ended at a different U.S. Port without calling on a Distant Foreign Port in between. It would also be a violation of the PVSA if they boarded at a U.S. Port and it ended at the same U.S. port, but did not travel to any foreign ports in between, but did stop at at least one other U.S. port.

 

If either of these are the situation, the only way the person would be permitted to bard would be if they agreed to pay the fine ($300 per person) and the Captain agreed to the violation of the PVSA. Sometimes cruise lines will allow people to pay the fine and board, other times they do not wish to violate the PVSA even if the passenger is willing to pay the fine.

 

Some countries other than the U.S. have similar cabotage laws (i.e. Italy), but so far as cruising is concerns, the U.S. version is the most restrictive.

While that is generally true, it may be somewhat misleading as as it is not the only way. It depends on the circumstances involved as to whether or not the person in that situation would need to pay the fine. There are exceptions.

 

For example, we were on a Vancouver to Seward cruise with some people who missed the ship in Vancouver. They flew up to Ketchikan and boarded the ship there. They did not need to pay any fine even though they were boarding at one U.S. port and disembarking at another. The cruise line absorbed the costs since the passengers had purchased cruise-air. That is one of the main reasons why some people use cruise-air arrangements.

 

Also, we have spoken to ship entertainers who board at one US port and disembark at another. They told us that it is a common practice. Again, in those situations they themselves do not pay any fine because the cruise line handles all the arrangements and costs involved.

[Cuizer2]

Also, we have spoken to ship entertainers who board at one US port and disembark at another. They told us that it is a common practice. Again, in those situations they themselves do not pay any fine because the cruise line handles all the arrangements and costs involved.

 

The PVSA applies to the passengers, not the crew.

[smeyer418]

Last evening I had dinner with an old friend who is a senior manager with the US Maritime Administration (USMA) that has the responsibility for administering and enforcing both the Jones Act and the Passenger Vessel Services Act (PVSA). He has been with the USMA for over 30 years and is intimately familiar with regulations contained in both Acts. He and his wife also are frequent cruisers and have had to talk about the PVSA many times

I asked him about the OP’s question and he responded that the USMA would consider embarking in San Diego a violation of the PVSA, and Celebrity Cruises/RCL would be subject to a fine of $300 for every passenger boarding (or leaving) the ship at that port. He said that the PVSA clearly prohibits the embarkation and/or disembarkation of passengers in a second (consecutive) US port without an intervening stop in a foreign/non-US port. The only exceptions are for medical and/or family-related emergencies and the movement of cruise ship personnel.

His answer is supported by this recent article that I found at Expert Cruiser.com

www.expertcruiser.com/tag/passenger-vessel-services-act/

Based on this article, it looks like the OP will have to get special permission from Celebrity/RCL and be willing to pay the $300 per-person fine that will be imposed by the USMA. It also looks like that boarding in San Diego will also require the permission of the Infinity’s captain at the time of embarkation.

 

 

I will assume the info you gave him didn't say the ship is stopping at a distant foreign port because he is just plain wrong.

[ocngypz]

Call again and ask if you can downstream. I have to send in requests for my clients.

[elena7seas]

While that is generally true, it may be somewhat misleading as as it is not the only way. It depends on the circumstances involved as to whether or not the person in that situation would need to pay the fine. There are exceptions.

 

For example, we were on a Vancouver to Seward cruise with some people who missed the ship in Vancouver. They flew up to Ketchikan and boarded the ship there. They did not need to pay any fine even though they were boarding at one U.S. port and disembarking at another. The cruise line absorbed the costs since the passengers had purchased cruise-air. That is one of the main reasons why some people use cruise-air arrangements.

 

Also, we have spoken to ship entertainers who board at one US port and disembark at another. They told us that it is a common practice. Again, in those situations they themselves do not pay any fine because the cruise line handles all the arrangements and costs involved.

 

Some months back there was a thread started by a very irate woman who missed her ship in Vancouver and was not permitted to board at the next port, which was a US port. She had purchased her air independently and was not allowed to board the ship at all, as there was no other distant port on the itinerary. For some reason, she was not given the option to pay the fine in order to board.

 

She did not have insurance.

[elena7seas]

Quite recently, I believe it was a Princess cruise, a woman missed the ship in the embarkation port, I think it was San Francisco, and wanted to board the ship in Los Angeles to continue her cruise---there is a thread on here somewhere about this. She was not allowed to do this because she was told it was some sort of violation. They would not allow her to embark in a port other than the port of embarkation, so she lost her cruise fare and the cruise.

 

I don't know if this was the same case or a different one, but when I was on the Millennium Wine Cruise this past September, a woman was late returning to the ship in San Francisco. The ship was still at the dock, but the gangway had been taken up.

 

She was not allowed back on the ship and her personal items were removed and put ashore. She wanted to get herself down to Monterey (the next stop) and re-embark there, but she was not allowed to board the ship again, period.

 

I heard this being explained by one of the ranking officers on the ship to a passenger who seemed to be on good terms with the officer. The officer was explaining that the length of the delay in setting sail was caused by the time it took to have the errant passenger's belongings removed from the ship.

[sasset]

It sure seems that the delay would have been less if they would have dropped the gangway again as opposed to clearing her cabin and depositing it on the dock.

[Cuizer2]

It sure seems that the delay would have been less if they would have dropped the gangway again as opposed to clearing her cabin and depositing it on the dock.

 

It would have been even less if the passenger had been on time.

[Cuizer2]

Call again and ask if you can downstream. I have to send in requests for my clients.

 

Who are you responding to? If the OP, have you read post # 29?

[jimmyjam]

on this interesting thread that I started..

I also like the fact that this thread brought out the "big boys and girls' (5,000 posts or more)

I'm certainly glad that you had interest in my post!!

 

I have learned a great deal..:o

 

Now the question is!!! CanI use my OBC to pay my fine??? hahaha

 

Regards to all..:cool: Jim

[elena7seas]

It sure seems that the delay would have been less if they would have dropped the gangway again as opposed to clearing her cabin and depositing it on the dock.

 

Apparently that wasn't possible.

 

There were some procedural issues that I don't understand re: redeploying the gangway. Someone on another thread said that under some berthing agreements, once the gangway is taken up, it can't be taken down without a huge fine.

 

I think it partly had to do with San Francisco being a busy port, and the regulations being different there, from say, Astoria, where we were the day before, and where we also had latecomer issues.

 

In Astoria, a Celebrity excursion was delayed about an hour returning to the ship because a logging truck had lost its load on a narrow road (or something similar) and the Celebrity-sponsored bus had to wait for the road to be cleared.

 

There was no one else due in Astoria that evening, so the Millennium was allowed to stay in place with the gangway down, waiting for the latecoming excursion to arrive.

[raymay]

to EVERYONE that posted a reply to my thread. I thought everyone was so gracious with their posts, to help me understand and get to the bottom of this problem.

 

Today I did recieve an Email from Celebrity says it is going to ok to board in San Diego:D yaaaa.

 

They sent me a"Down line authorization" saying it is ok to board..and they are mailing me the original..

 

We'll see what happens in 5 months!!!!:cool:

 

Happy Cruisin to all!!!!:)

Which dept did you talk to to get this OK? I would like to do this on a cruise I am going on as well.

[jimmyjam]

I will get that info to you this weekend.:D

 

Regards, Jim:cool:

[jimmyjam]

Which dept did you talk to to get this OK? I would like to do this on a cruise I am going on as well.

 

Heres the info on downline authorizations..

 

Alexander Acosta

Guest Flight Operations - (GFO)

Travel Services

Royal Caribbean International

1080 Caribbean Way

Miami, FL 33132 Alexander Acosta

 

good luck:D