Celebrity may not allow boarding.

[jimmyjam]

:(I need some help, I am interested in taking the Infinity's transcanal trip from Seattle, WA to Ft. Lauderdale, FL. on Sept. 24th,2010.

 

I live in San Diego, CA., before booking, I asked Celebrity if I could embark in San Diego to go on this cruise.

Celebrity said they would have to get special permission to allow us to board, the Celebrity agent said "probably not" due to the "Jones Act"

 

Has anyone encountered this or have experience with this situation??

 

Thank you in advance,

 

Jim:confused:

[39august]

You should be able to get permission. The Jones Act requires that if you board a ship in the US, you must visit another country before returning to the US. Obviously, you will visit several other countries before you return to the US! I have read on these boards of others being allowed similar reuqests.

[BaumD]

The Passenger Services Act (not the Jones Act) says you MUST visit a DISTANT foreign port to do such an itinerary. As it already does Seattle to Ft. L. it must visit a distant port (some of which include Aruba and Curacao). Only the cruise line can tell you whether they will allow this.

[dkjretired]

It is not the Jones act which is often confused for the Passenger Services Act. From other posters over the years on this board, you may be able to do so if Celebrity allows. Do not be surprised if there is a fee for doing so which will probably equal the fine the government will place upon Celebrity for allowing you to enter in San Diego.

[Gonzo70]

Celebrity would incur a fine were they to let you do this as it breaks the PSVA. It is a law that protects U.S. transportation companies from foreign competition. Just like a foreign airline cannot fly you from San Diego to Mimai, a foreign cruise line cannot transport you from one U.S. city to another (unless it stops at a distant foreign port inbetween). Sometimes a cruise line will allow you to do this if you pay the fine ($300 per person), but often they do not want to violate the act, so will not permit it even if you are willing to pay the fine.

[AlanAllyn]

Neither the Jones Act nor the Passenger Service Act is an issue here. The cruise will stop in a "distant foreign port", Cartenega. Since the cruise starts in Seattle, it would have to meet that requirement.

 

I suggest you contact Celebrity again and possibly talk to a supervisor. You will likely have to pay the full fare (from Seattle).

[kitty9]

Quite recently, I believe it was a Princess cruise, a woman missed the ship in the embarkation port, I think it was San Francisco, and wanted to board the ship in Los Angeles to continue her cruise---there is a thread on here somewhere about this. She was not allowed to do this because she was told it was some sort of violation. They would not allow her to embark in a port other than the port of embarkation, so she lost her cruise fare and the cruise.

[kitty9]

Neither the Jones Act nor the Passenger Service Act is an issue here. The cruise will stop in a "distant foreign port", Cartenega. Since the cruise starts in Seattle, it would have to meet that requirement.

 

I suggest you contact Celebrity again and possibly talk to a supervisor. You will likely have to pay the full fare (from Seattle).

 

The problem is, the ship will not have visited the distant foreign port BEFORE the OP wants to join the ship. That's where the problem lies. If there were a stop at a foreign port before the OP were to embark, that would be fine, but the ship doesn't visit that distant foreign port before the stop in San Diego. That's the problem the woman faced in my post above this one.

[Mark_K]

The problem is, the ship will not have visited the distant foreign port BEFORE the OP wants to join the ship. That's where the problem lies. If there were a stop at a foreign port before the OP were to embark, that would be fine, but the ship doesn't visit that distant foreign port before the stop in San Diego. That's the problem the woman faced in my post above this one.

That shouldn't be a problem, it's not where the ship's been the matters. What matters is where the particular passenger boards and disembarks and where the ship visits in between. Since it visits Cartagena in between, there shouldn't be a problem.

 

No doubt the woman you mention was on a Princess 10-day cruise that begins and ends in San Francisco, getting on in LA wouldn't be allowed because you would then be transporting her from LA to SF without a distant foreign port being visited in between. If there is no distant foreign port in between you have to embark/disembark in the same city.

[smeyer418]

Quite recently, I believe it was a Princess cruise, a woman missed the ship in the embarkation port, I think it was San Francisco, and wanted to board the ship in Los Angeles to continue her cruise---there is a thread on here somewhere about this. She was not allowed to do this because she was told it was some sort of violation. They would not allow her to embark in a port other than the port of embarkation, so she lost her cruise fare and the cruise.

This is because this cruise did not stop at a distant foreign port.

The PSVA is actually pretty simple. A non US Flagged vessel may begin and end at the same US port if it either stops no where(a cruise to no where) or its stops at a least one foreign port(any port outside the 50 states). For this purpose insular possessions of the US are treated as foreign ports. A repositioning cruise may begin or end at a different US port if it visits at least one distant foreign port(a port outside of North America-including Canada and Mexico the Caribbean Islands and Bermuda- Aruba Bonaire and Curacao are treated as part of South America ). A cruise that starts or ends in any foreign port doesn't transport someone between two different US ports so that is ok too. The idea is to prevent transporting people between two different US ports unless a distant foreign port is visited. In this case since the cruise will stop at a distant foreign port you can get on at a different US port- if the cruise line allows it. There would be no fine. Most cruise lines where the cruise is a round trip require that if you miss the first US port that you can't join until the ship is at a foreign port.

and before you ask the cruise lines are happy with this arrangement since it allows them to use foreign nationals as the crew and is not about to change.

[Mark_K]

and before you ask the cruise lines are happy with this arrangement since it allows them to use foreign nationals as the crew and is not about to change.

The cruise lines would be happier if the whole thing was repealed, it's both archaic and unneccesary. There's no American passenger ship industry left to protect.

[cruisinjudy]

It would seem to me as I have read the act that the OPs request should be granted. Many Panama Canal cruises run between San Diego and Ft. Lauderdale. I agree with the suggestion to talk to someone else at Celebrity.

[sasset]

Some points:

 

Do speak with a supervisor. The represenataive that you spoke to has one job and that is selling. The mention of the "Jones Act" tells you that they know not of what they speak. Your request would not invoke a violation of the PVSA.

 

In the end it won't matter that there is no violation of the PVSA. It will be what Celebrity wants to do. Case in point: We were booked on a Barcelona to Fort Lauderdale transatlantic a few years ago. The cruise previous to ours was a Venice to Barcelona. We were planning on being in Rome prior to our cruise and asked Celebrity if we could join that cruise in Rome and then continue as a back to back. PVSA was not an issue, but Celebrity said no. The only reason given was no.

 

Best of luck. Keep escalating until you get to someone that knows and has authority.

[jimmyjam]

I want to say thanks to each and everyone one of you that took time to reply. I read every post very carefully, and they we all great answers and suggestions. I will follow up on the call to Celebrity.:)

 

Thank goodness for Cruise Critic!!!!!!:D

[Seabee]

The most interesting thing about this, is that no matter what a supervisor or anyone else tells you regarding this issue, when you show up to board ship at San Diego (assuming you are told OK), no one on the ship may be aware of the decision and you may still be denied boarding. I'd make sure I had something in writing and even then, I'd be prepared to be disappointed. Remember, the Captain will have the final say, so if you show up at SD and are denied boarding, I'd ask to get an immediate ruling from the Captain...whether he will or not is another matter. If you want to be sure you can board, go to Seattle.

[smeyer418]

The cruise lines would be happier if the whole thing was repealed, it's both archaic and unneccesary. There's no American passenger ship industry left to protect.

It also protects every tug boat, ferry and many commercial(freighters) ships. Its not going to change. The cruise lines have decided not to spend the political capital to change it.

 

http://www2.cruising.org/industry/passenger_services_act.cfm

 

each cruise line has someone in its office that specializes in PSVA issues. Get the decision to allow you to board in writing. While the Captain has final say they listen to the home office.

[Cuizer2]

:(I need some help, I am interested in taking the Infinity's transcanal trip from Seattle, WA to Ft. Lauderdale, FL. on Sept. 24th,2010.

 

I live in San Diego, CA., before booking, I asked Celebrity if I could embark in San Diego to go on this cruise.

Celebrity said they would have to get special permission to allow us to board, the Celebrity agent said "probably not" due to the "Jones Act"

 

Has anyone encountered this or have experience with this situation??

 

Thank you in advance,

 

Jim:confused:

 

A foreign flagged ship (all Celebrity ships are foreign flagged) cannot transport people between two US ports without a stop in a DISTANT foreign port. There are no distant foreign ports in North or Central America.

 

Thus the ship is going to visit a DISTANT foreign port sometime between San Diego and Ft. Lauderdale. Therefore, this request can be granted without violating the PVSA.

[Cuizer2]

You should be able to get permission. The Jones Act requires that if you board a ship in the US, you must visit another country before returning to the US. Obviously, you will visit several other countries before you return to the US! I have read on these boards of others being allowed similar reuqests.

 

This is absolutely wrong. First of all it is the PVSA, not the Jones Act. Second, if the cruise begins and ends at two different US ports, then the ship must visit a DISTANT foreign port (not any foreign port will do). There are no distant foreign ports in North or Central America.

[Gonzo70]

This is absolutely wrong. First of all it is the PVSA, not the Jones Act. Second, if the cruise begins and ends at two different US ports, then the ship must visit a DISTANT foreign port (not any foreign port will do). There are no distant foreign ports in North or Central America.

 

It looks like the OP's cruise does stop in Cartagena, Colombia (South America) which does qualify as a distant foreign port - so actually the Celebrity rep they spoke to was incorrect to say it was a violation. Hopefully the OP will be able to get their request approved as it appears what they are intending to do does satisfy the PVSA.

[raymay]

What happens if someone missed their flight and had to get on the next port? Do they not let them on?

[Mark_K]

What happens if someone missed their flight and had to get on the next port? Do they not let them on?

For your typical cruise that begins/ends in the same location, you normally are not allowed to board until the ship reaches the first foreign port, thus you are being transported from a foreign port to a US port and not from one US port to another.

 

For a cruise that begins in the US and ends in a foreign country, you can get on anywhere.

 

For a cruise that begins in a foreign county and ends in the US, you can get on at any foreign port - and possibly a US port, but the same rules about visiting a distant foreign port after you got on would apply.

[Mark_K]

It also protects every tug boat, ferry and many commercial(freighters) ships. Its not going to change. The cruise lines have decided not to spend the political capital to change it.

 

http://www2.cruising.org/industry/passenger_services_act.cfm

 

each cruise line has someone in its office that specializes in PSVA issues. Get the decision to allow you to board in writing. While the Captain has final say they listen to the home office.

It could easily be rewritten to protect those interests and still allow cruise ships to do US/US itineraries. According to that article there is a group pushing for reform, it's just not the CLIA.

[smeyer418]

It could easily be rewritten to protect those interests and still allow cruise ships to do US/US itineraries. According to that article there is a group pushing for reform, it's just not the CLIA.

 

Yes they are pushing but its going no where. They know that if it gets opened the cruise lines will have new additional rules placed on them so the groups that are pushing will get no where at all with this. The last change that allowed the NCL America ships to be finished overseas and be US flagged came with so many restrictions that it didn't help the cruise line at all. The requirement for a certain percentage of US crew and that it could not travel to the Main land or Alaska didn't help that cruise line. Also unless you have lobbied in DC(and I have) I know that what you put in the legislative hopper never comes out that way. The PSVA causes the cruise lines little trouble. A changed one is an unknown and has no chance of passing now anyway. I posted a clear source for my opinion, you are of course entitled to yours but the desire of a few for a change goes back 50 years and and hasn't changed at all. Remember that this same rule also applies to foreign flagged airlines which can't carry people between two US airports(some airlines use a US flagged code share). The US airlines- poor as they are- would end pretty quickly if foreign flagged airlines would be able to transport within the US.

[Onessa]

It could easily be rewritten to protect those interests and still allow cruise ships to do US/US itineraries. According to that article there is a group pushing for reform, it's just not the CLIA.

 

Until you try to write legislation, it ALWAYS seems so easy.

 

As SMEYER418 points out, new legislation is an unknown -- better the devil you know than new untested legislation and the rules and regulations that it changes.

[ShadowzBtlr]

Last evening I had dinner with an old friend who is a senior manager with the US Maritime Administration (USMA) that has the responsibility for administering and enforcing both the Jones Act and the Passenger Vessel Services Act (PVSA). He has been with the USMA for over 30 years and is intimately familiar with regulations contained in both Acts. He and his wife also are frequent cruisers and have had to talk about the PVSA many times

I asked him about the OP’s question and he responded that the USMA would consider embarking in San Diego a violation of the PVSA, and Celebrity Cruises/RCL would be subject to a fine of $300 for every passenger boarding (or leaving) the ship at that port. He said that the PVSA clearly prohibits the embarkation and/or disembarkation of passengers in a second (consecutive) US port without an intervening stop in a foreign/non-US port. The only exceptions are for medical and/or family-related emergencies and the movement of cruise ship personnel.

His answer is supported by this recent article that I found at Expert Cruiser.com

www.expertcruiser.com/tag/passenger-vessel-services-act/

Based on this article, it looks like the OP will have to get special permission from Celebrity/RCL and be willing to pay the $300 per-person fine that will be imposed by the USMA. It also looks like that boarding in San Diego will also require the permission of the Infinity’s captain at the time of embarkation.