Letter from Carnival Victory Captain confirming shooting death of passenger

[LSEA]

Yes, and the passengers have every right to know as I previously pointed out. My question is, what difference did it make whether it was a Carnival Excursion or independent? Did it really matter that much when they BOTH have EXACTLY THE SAME excursion? When they take the SAME road to the SAME place? What difference did that make?

 

 

...

[Chief Cruiser]

Just a few observations:

 

Whether the Captain personally wrote the letter, or contrubuted to writing the letter or not, it was not dispensed without Miami's approval. Captain's have a lot of authority, but when it comes to a situation like this, I would bet the farm their legal department put their kiss of approval on it. It called Business Legals 101.

 

The passing comment that the tour invovled was not a Carnival sponsored tour was not a kneejerk reaction. It was put in there on purpose and with much thought to dispel rumours and give the appearance of a "hands off-we're clean" on this tragedy. As cold as that may sound, it is a preventive shot to shut down the rumours, misconceptions, and misrepresentation of their tours. It's called Marketing and PR 101.

 

Don't think for one second Carnival did not know that this letter "to the passengers" would be on the interent and read by the world in qucker time than it took to write it. They wanted it spread. Otherwise, if the communication was meant ONLY for the passengers as the letter was addressed and some argue, the Captain could have made an announcement on the ship's PA expressing Carnival's sympathies, a couple of details, and then corporate could have done a press release. But, that leaves to many possibilities of being misquoted. If it is in writing, you can't dispute what you thought you heard or was said. They knew the details would be spread quicker by letter than by taking the time to call a press conference. It called Business Communications 101.

 

Canceling tours to Coki Beach makes good business sense until things settle down. It's projecting and enhancing their image of passenger safety, and rightfully so. Regardless of whether the tour was Carnival's or not, it would be business suicide to keep sending passengers into a known area of danger. That's referred to as willful negligence. It's also called a "no-brainer." That's Business Management 101.

 

Whether you agree with or disagree with the "way" Carnival handled this is totally up to you and is your opinion. Business competition and the litigative atmosphere of the time we live is dictating what business decisions are made on a daily basis with Carnival or any other legitimate business. That means ethics doesn't always come into the equation. Whether or not adding the non-sponsored tour reference (which seems to be the major center of debate) is ethically right or wrong is an opinion. There are no books on hard fast rules of ethics. There are guidelines and rules that each individual and corporation may develop for themselves, but ethics it is not a one-size fits all philosophy.

 

My father once told me that there will be decisions in life where your decision is based on either what is right or what is best and depending on the circumstances, those two things will not always be the same. More and more, business decisions are made on what is best for the company rather than what is right (i.e.--do you settle out of court or do you fight the case. It may be the BEST business decision to settle, even though you feel like it is the RIGHT thing to do to fight the claim, but would be more expensive). In this case, and only Carnival knows, the wording of the letter was what they either felt was right, best, or both. PR is damage control pure and simple. While the young lady's death was surely tragic, Carnival is not a one-sided company dealing only in sympathy. It is one of Cahill's OTHER responsibilities to protect the business image of Carnival. Stockholders demand that.

 

We have to decide, as individuals and for ourselves only, whether we agree, disagree, or don't care about the letter or how it was handled and then take the appropriate action, if any, we feel we need to do to justify our decision.

 

Just my opinion because as a business professional involved at the adminstrative level who routinely deals with touchy situations, lawsuits, and the press, I can see all elements in Carnival's statement and why it was handle the way it was. That is not to say I agree or disagree, I just understand the business approach to it. :)

[nrdsb4]

 

Just my opinion because as a business professional involved at the adminstrative level who routinely deals with touchy situations, lawsuits, and the press, I can see all elements in Carnival's statement and why it was handle the way it was. That is not to say I agree or disagree, I just understand the business approach to it. :)

 

That's pretty much been my reaction to it.

 

Whether or not adding the non-sponsored tour reference (which seems to be the major center of debate) is ethically right or wrong is an opinion.

 

The fact that one line or so in this letter has become the primary focus of this event (well, at least in this thread) is what bothers me more than anything. It seems to me that the victim and her family, as well as concerns about how to influence future events in this port to the betterment of all citizens and tourists, have somehow been forgotten.

[Woodsmaster]

Truly horrendous for the family. What a tragedy. May God go with them in their time of need.

[Savoia]

Letter from Carnival Victory Captain confirming shooting death of passenger:

 

http://tweetphoto.com/32340902

 

Carnival had to acknowledge the tragic incident but why so tackily as to obsolve themselves in nearly every sentence?

 

Carnival has had several security issues lately...not a comfortable sign.

[Chief Cruiser]

Carnival had to acknowledge the tragic incident but why so tackily as to obsolve themselves in nearly every sentence?

 

I'll refer you to my post just a couple of posts back to answer your question.

[SE NC]

Just a few observations:

 

Whether the Captain personally wrote the letter, or contrubuted to writing the letter or not, it was not dispensed without Miami's approval. Captain's have a lot of authority, but when it comes to a situation like this, I would bet the farm their legal department put their kiss of approval on it. It called Business Legals 101.

 

The passing comment that the tour invovled was not a Carnival sponsored tour was not a kneejerk reaction. It was put in there on purpose and with much thought to dispel rumours and give the appearance of a "hands off-we're clean" on this tragedy. As cold as that may sound, it is a preventive shot to shut down the rumours, misconceptions, and misrepresentation of their tours. It's called Marketing and PR 101.

 

Don't think for one second Carnival did not know that this letter "to the passengers" would be on the interent and read by the world in qucker time than it took to write it. They wanted it spread. Otherwise, if the communication was meant ONLY for the passengers as the letter was addressed and some argue, the Captain could have made an announcement on the ship's PA expressing Carnival's sympathies, a couple of details, and then corporate could have done a press release. But, that leaves to many possibilities of being misquoted. If it is in writing, you can't dispute what you thought you heard or was said. They knew the details would be spread quicker by letter than by taking the time to call a press conference. It called Business Communications 101.

 

Canceling tours to Coki Beach makes good business sense until things settle down. It's projecting and enhancing their image of passenger safety, and rightfully so. Regardless of whether the tour was Carnival's or not, it would be business suicide to keep sending passengers into a known area of danger. That's referred to as willful negligence. It's also called a "no-brainer." That's Business Management 101.

 

Whether you agree with or disagree with the "way" Carnival handled this is totally up to you and is your opinion. Business competition and the litigative atmosphere of the time we live is dictating what business decisions are made on a daily basis with Carnival or any other legitimate business. That means ethics doesn't always come into the equation. Whether or not adding the non-sponsored tour reference (which seems to be the major center of debate) is ethically right or wrong is an opinion. There are no books on hard fast rules of ethics. There are guidelines and rules that each individual and corporation may develop for themselves, but ethics it is not a one-size fits all philosophy.

 

My father once told me that there will be decisions in life where your decision is based on either what is right or what is best and depending on the circumstances, those two things will not always be the same. More and more, business decisions are made on what is best for the company rather than what is right (i.e.--do you settle out of court or do you fight the case. It may be the BEST business decision to settle, even though you feel like it is the RIGHT thing to do to fight the claim, but would be more expensive). In this case, and only Carnival knows, the wording of the letter was what they either felt was right, best, or both. PR is damage control pure and simple. While the young lady's death was surely tragic, Carnival is not a one-sided company dealing only in sympathy. It is one of Cahill's OTHER responsibilities to protect the business image of Carnival. Stockholders demand that.

 

We have to decide, as individuals and for ourselves only, whether we agree, disagree, or don't care about the letter or how it was handled and then take the appropriate action, if any, we feel we need to do to justify our decision.

 

Just my opinion because as a business professional involved at the adminstrative level who routinely deals with touchy situations, lawsuits, and the press, I can see all elements in Carnival's statement and why it was handle the way it was. That is not to say I agree or disagree, I just understand the business approach to it. :)

 

Very well stated even for a Clemson fan!:D Goooo Heels!

[Chief Cruiser]

Very well stated even for a Clemson fan!:D Goooo Heels!

 

Thank you sir or ma'am.....even though you are a Tar Heel! See ya October 9th! Go Tigers!!!!!!! :)

[steelerfan27]

Oh my word. What a terrible tragedy. That poor child and her family.

[Savoia]

I'll refer you to my post just a couple of posts back to answer your question.

 

I'm fully aware of why Carnival handled the situation so hearltessly and in a tacky way. God help Carnival if this wasn't the first incident though, that there were reports of trouble at that beach before. Personally, I'd have no problem watching Carnival sign over a fat check as a result.

[fin]

Savoia -- Why on earth do you think they would need to write a check? They didn't even have to pay for the funeral nor refund cruise expenses, but they did.

 

"Tacky" is obviously in the mind of the beholder.

 

Thanks to chief cruiser for the excellent post on the reasons for their letter.

 

And personally, when I read a story about something like a bus going off a road in South America, killing a dozen or so people from a cruise, one of the very first questions I always have in my own mind is: were they on a private or a cruise-sponsored tour? It helps me with mental risk-analysis when I take a tour in the third world.

[LSEA]

I'm fully aware of why Carnival handled the situation so hearltessly and in a tacky way. God help Carnival if this wasn't the first incident though, that there were reports of trouble at that beach before. Personally, I'd have no problem watching Carnival sign over a fat check as a result.

 

 

I am curious about the part of your post I highlighted in red. Do you think Carnival put this girl in an unsafe situation that resulted in her murder? If it wasn't a ships excursion I don't see how that could be the case.

[SC GUY]

My husband and I lived on St John USVI in the mid 90's. The crime was horrible. I never felt safe walking through town even in the day time, I always walked with someone else. We always heard way back then that St Thomas was much worse. I can only imagine this many years later how dangerous it really is. The crime is the main reason we moved away.

:eek:

My wife and I quit getting off the ship in St. Thomas about 4 years ago. I can't stand the place. Many people stick their head in the sand and try to smile and act like there is nothing wrong there,but that only puts innocent travelers at risk. We stopped going to St. Thomas after some women grabbed my wifes arm and tried to pull her inside a store. I had her other arm and pulled her back on to the sidewalk. There are people that look like mental patients walking the streets cursing about white people. We saw several exchanges between younger cruise members and local thugs on the streets and on our bus. The truth is St. Thomas is just a giant ghetto that is surrounded by water. I say let them starve for a few years without tourists and the local politicians might get off their sorry backsides and clean that dump up.The local politicos make sure that all firearms are banned from law abiding citizens. They hand out stiff sentences for getting caught with one bullet. They on the other hand will do NOTHING to stop their local gangs from carrying guns. I say LET THEM STARVE !!!

[deborahjo]

If you have cruised you have to know how the "rumor mill" works on a cruise ship. Someone hears something it gets repeated and it grows and grows. I know this for a fact. Carnival Splendor Swine Cruise for fact.

 

Carnival had to protect them and the family I feel. The letter was the best way. There is no "misspeaking" about anything. I actually think it was an extremely smart move on Carnival to do it this way. No rumors. Just the facts.

[sjn911]

If you have cruised you have to know how the "rumor mill" works on a cruise ship. Someone hears something it gets repeated and it grows and grows. I know this for a fact. Carnival Splendor Swine Cruise for fact.

 

Carnival had to protect them and the family I feel. The letter was the best way. There is no "misspeaking" about anything. I actually think it was an extremely smart move on Carnival to do it this way. No rumors. Just the facts.

 

I see what you are saying..and it is the "pare it down way of speak for those from our parts".:)

 

I really appreciated the business scenarios. :)

 

Here I stand as a tourist who wanted to see more of Virgin Islands and Carribbean..compare to Hawaii..my favorite known tropical place. I do appreciate being more informed..had no idea it was this bad..and there is enough here to trust it is this bad:(.

 

 

This young girl/woman and her family at this point perhaps, should be where my mind and heart should pray for and stay.

[Savoia]

I am curious about the part of your post I highlighted in red. Do you think Carnival put this girl in an unsafe situation that resulted in her murder? If it wasn't a ships excursion I don't see how that could be the case.

 

If Carnival had heard of incidents in the past at this beach or with this tour provider then the lawyers will start to circle. I strongly suspect Carnival's actions this far, refund of cruise fare and funeral expenses, was a recommendation of their legal team in the hope of fending off any litigation.

 

I really feel Carnival has gotten too big, and customer security isn't what it should be.

[hoop4321]

my thoughts and prayers are with the family of this horrible crime. I have a 14 year old son. That they share the same age startled me. How horrible for her senseless death.

 

I do not find fault with the Captain's letter. I remember these boards after the poor woman died while cave tubing in Belize. There are lots of people who repeat rumors and innuendo. The letter was factual, gave information about the sad event, and likely stopped whispers of it being a Carnival excursion. Still, there have been a few posts of suing, which parties should be sued, and big fat checks that Carnival should write.

 

Carnival is being very generous in refunding the families fare, and paying for the funeral. I don't think it is right or wrong that they are doing it, but nice. Really, Carnival owes the family nothing, but is still stepping forward and trying to comfort the family.....which is wonderful:)

 

Last but not least.....this shooting does not make me fearful of St. Thomas....but the locals do. They have a serious problem. I won't add to the problem by being another number on the island, or spending money there that gives them the impression that sweeping it under the rug is OK. When the locals are saying stay away, I am going to listen.

[steelerfan27]

Last but not least.....this shooting does not make me fearful of St. Thomas....but the locals do. They have a serious problem. I won't add to the problem by being another number on the island, or spending money there that gives them the impression that sweeping it under the rug is OK. When the locals are saying stay away, I am going to listen.

 

I agree. I think the ships should stop going to St. Thomas. It's not that nice anyway.

[RVman]

Back in the eighties while serving in the USN we would stop in at St Thomas for liberty. We were always told about the risk of being a victim there and that was back then, so crime is nothing new to St Thomas.

[Heavy T]

When I was in my late teens (many moons ago), my family took a cruise that stopped in St. Thomas. Another family was with us and there son went off on his own while we stayed on the main 2 streets where all of the shopping was. After an hour or so, we see him walking back towards us and he was all bloody and his shirt was ripped apart. He had been mugged and beaten up by some locals for his back pack and watch. We always stayed on the main strip whenever we went back.

[Kurbanfan]

If Carnival had heard of incidents in the past at this beach or with this tour provider then the lawyers will start to circle. I strongly suspect Carnival's actions this far, refund of cruise fare and funeral expenses, was a recommendation of their legal team in the hope of fending off any litigation.

 

I really feel Carnival has gotten too big, and customer security isn't what it should be.

 

So you think Carnival is the only cruise line that ports in St. Thomas:confused: Anyone getting off any ship can go anywhere they want......including Coki beach......why would any cruiseline be liable for someone getting off and going on their own......just so happen they were in the wrong place at the wrong time to get caught up in a gang related crossfire...........how in the world could Carnival have avoided this:confused:

[steelerfan27]

So you think Carnival is the only cruise line that ports in St. Thomas:confused: Anyone getting off any ship can go anywhere they want......including Coki beach......why would any cruiseline be liable for someone getting off and going on their own......just so happen they were in the wrong place at the wrong time to get caught up in a gang related crossfire...........how in the world could Carnival have avoided this:confused:

 

I agree. There was nothing Carnival could have done to avoid this.

[dmdiver]

Liberty stopped in St. Thomas the day after that shooting. We had a letter in our cabin informing us of the incident & letting us know that any ship excursions going to Coki were cancelled. I can't even imagine how the family feels. My kids were 10, 15 & 18 when we first started cruising. The thought of something happening to them is just horrendous. No one ever thinks of a vacation going bad. I feel for them.

[Savoia]

So you think Carnival is the only cruise line that ports in St. Thomas:confused: Anyone getting off any ship can go anywhere they want......including Coki beach......why would any cruiseline be liable for someone getting off and going on their own......just so happen they were in the wrong place at the wrong time to get caught up in a gang related crossfire...........how in the world could Carnival have avoided this:confused:

 

Carnival has a responsibility to make sure the tour operators with access to their ships run a safe operation. IF Carnival had any prior knowledge this beach was unsafe and did not warn their passengers about it, or those operators who used this beach as part of a tour then the lawyers will be circling. I doubt highly Mr. Arison thought of covering the expenses of the family on his own. I highly suspect Carnival's legal team wanted to set tone by doing what they could to fend off a wrongful death claim.

 

Carnival isn't off the hook...I am sure they are waiting for the other shoe to drop in this matter.

[michelle1836]

So you think Carnival is the only cruise line that ports in St. Thomas:confused: Anyone getting off any ship can go anywhere they want......including Coki beach......why would any cruiseline be liable for someone getting off and going on their own......just so happen they were in the wrong place at the wrong time to get caught up in a gang related crossfire...........how in the world could Carnival have avoided this:confused:

 

 

Wow! what a tragedy!! I do agree with kurbanfan though.