Letter from Carnival Victory Captain confirming shooting death of passenger

[ooulio]

We have been there 5 times in the last 7 years on a cruise. The only places I have been nervous was in panama canal. Streets were worse than Nassau with all the people lying in the streets and bars . We did go to a time share there in St Thomas. That was awful. They didn't want to let us go. They kept asking for money for deposit and telling us we came in and had to buy one. They weren't very nice. I told them to get out of the way NOW! I was going to get a police man and have him arrested. They moved. No more time share talks for me. I went to one in Aruba where he was a high closer. What a jerk he was. He kept pushing my girlfriend around. I finally had to be mean. When I tried to be nice, he wouldn't listen. I finally swore at him and told him to get the f--- out of the way. He was the only jerk in ARuba i met. I loved it there.

[guau]

 

 

I think your frustration and sadness is making you think this, but it is totally a knee jerk reaction. The captain stated a fact....you reworded it to say "Oh by the way we didn't have anything to do with it"...that is just your wording, not his. I think people have found this to "pick" on Carnival

 

People..and the media...are nosy. By putting out the facts in his letter, the Captain rightfully stopped further speculation and rumours.

 

Sure, you can think that, but you're wrong.

 

Yes, the captain stated a fact. It doesn't neccessarily make it the approriate place for it. He could have left it at; "Carnival suspended tours to the Coki beach until further notice." What was wrong with that? Yet he (or the PR Dept/lawyers) saw it neccessary to include; "These individuals were not on an excursion purchased through the ship." There is nothing to "find" or "pick on". It's a matter of simple ethicality.

 

What does the phrase, "not on an excursion purchased through the ship" accomplish? That passengers will blindly feel safer on Carnival's excursion as opposed to an indepent excursion? That they'd better stick strictly to carnival's excursions only and not worry about cancelling any of their future excursions already booked through carnival because it's safer? Maybe switching over from previously booked independent excursions to carnival's? It seems to me like it was stricly a business move on carnival's part to include that phrase in a letter that was supposed to be compassionate/consoling. As I previously stated, this letter was addressed TO THE PASSENGERS and no one else. A simple press release could have covered the facts as to time, place, etc.

 

By the way, "People..and the media...are nosy." Someone died. They have a right to know.

[okwriter]

It seems a whole lot easier to use the internet for all manner of news from all over the world, and spare a bunch of trees.

 

Wow. That was random. :confused: :D

[LSEA]

"Okay, maybe they could have released the info in a separate statement."

 

Exactly.

 

"I doubt the family is at all concerned with what was written, I am sure they are otherwise occupied."

 

Seriously? Really? So it wouldn't affect you in the slightest bit if this was your child and you were going through this? This family is in enough pain as it is for carnival to throw salt on the wound. The letter, though informative comes off as selfish and insincere. There is nothing wrong with what they said. I just don't feel it was the appropriate place for it, specially when it involves a loved one's death. Sorry, but death is a whole nother level as opossed to a cancellation, an itenerary change, or having some other difficulty go wrong with your trip. Save that type of letter for those situations. Whatever they are doing for the family is great. But just as they are to be commended for that, they are also to be called out on their lack of empathy at their wording.

 

You were quoting me, but you should have really posted my entire statement. By just quoting a small part you manipulated my point.

 

Here is my entire statement:

 

I am puzzled by the people who are outraged by Carnival stating it was a privately arranged tour. How many cruise passengers are booked on a Carnival excursion in St. Thomas in the next few days / weeks? THOUSANDS! People hear things like this and they panic. Can't you imagine people going over the Carnival excursion list for St. Thomas trying to figure out which tour this family was on, Carnival phone lines and excursion desks being swamped?

 

Okay, maybe they could have released the info in a separate statement. I doubt the family is at all concerned with what was written, I am sure they are otherwise occupied. And from the bits of info available on Cruise Critic and other sites, it seems as though Carnival is doing everything possible to support this family during their incredibly difficult time.

OK, So if they didn't include the fact it was not a Carnival excursion in this letter, but rather released that detail in another letter or media outlet, what makes you think the victim's family wouldn't read / view / hear that other statement too?

 

[mara93]

I just read that Carnival will pay for all funeral costs & will reimburse their cruise costs.

They weren't responsible, but it says a lot about the company that they're willing to do this.

Hats off to Carnival.

[Aviator of the Seas]

I just read that Carnival will pay for all funeral costs & will reimburse their cruise costs.

They weren't responsible, but it says a lot about the company that they're willing to do this.

Hats off to Carnival.

 

I posted that thread and I don't understand why it was pulled. Threads about the pettiest of things linger on and on in these boards, but an informative thread about a great gesture by a cruise line gets pulled. Maybe it is because I'm usually at the RCI boards and they don't want me over at Carnival's?

 

It's not something I invented. It's something I translated directly from a newspaper and totally relevant to Carnival's customer base.

[sharecruises]

 

Sure, you can think that, but you're wrong.

 

Yes, the captain stated a fact. It doesn't neccessarily make it the approriate place for it. He could have left it at; "Carnival suspended tours to the Coki beach until further notice." What was wrong with that? Yet he (or the PR Dept/lawyers) saw it neccessary to include; "These individuals were not on an excursion purchased through the ship." There is nothing to "find" or "pick on". It's a matter of simple ethicality.

 

What does the phrase, "not on an excursion purchased through the ship" accomplish? That passengers will blindly feel safer on Carnival's excursion as opposed to an indepent excursion? That they'd better stick strictly to carnival's excursions only and not worry about cancelling any of their future excursions already booked through carnival because it's safer? Maybe switching over from previously booked independent excursions to carnival's? It seems to me like it was stricly a business move on carnival's part to include that phrase in a letter that was supposed to be compassionate/consoling. As I previously stated, this letter was addressed TO THE PASSENGERS and no one else. A simple press release could have covered the facts as to time, place, etc.

 

By the way, "People..and the media...are nosy." Someone died. They have a right to know.

 

 

EXCUSE ME....THAT IS MY OPINION...YOU HAVE YOURS...SAYING "YOU ARE WRONG" IS NOT AN OPTION HERE..THESE ARE OPINONS

 

 

Also...please learn how to use message boards..you have YOUR post as if it was written by me (quoted)

 

Yes the letter was addressed to the passengers..but it is NOW posted all over the internet..as they must have know it would be

 

Statiing facts is a good thing..and as others have said, it also cut down on speculation

 

Totally knee jerk thinking IMHO....in case you don't know..that means "in my humble opinion"

 

Carnival did nothing wrong....they stated facts

[sharecruises]

I just read that Carnival will pay for all funeral costs & will reimburse their cruise costs.

They weren't responsible, but it says a lot about the company that they're willing to do this.

Hats off to Carnival.

 

 

I think that is really nice of Carnival.

 

I live in a tourist area and I never saw an airline or hotel pick up the costs when something goes wrong..never saw them blamed either

 

People have to realize that Carnival can't control everything

[guau]

 

 

I think your frustration and sadness is making you think this, but it is totally a knee jerk reaction. The captain stated a fact....you reworded it to say "Oh by the way we didn't have anything to do with it"...that is just your wording, not his. I think people have found this to "pick" on Carnival

 

People..and the media...are nosy. By putting out the facts in his letter, the Captain rightfully stopped further speculation and rumours.

 

You were quoting me, but you should have really posted my entire statement. By just quoting a small part you manipulated my point.

 

Here is my entire statement:

 

I am puzzled by the people who are outraged by Carnival stating it was a privately arranged tour. How many cruise passengers are booked on a Carnival excursion in St. Thomas in the next few days / weeks? THOUSANDS! People hear things like this and they panic. Can't you imagine people going over the Carnival excursion list for St. Thomas trying to figure out which tour this family was on, Carnival phone lines and excursion desks being swamped?

 

Okay, maybe they could have released the info in a separate statement. I doubt the family is at all concerned with what was written, I am sure they are otherwise occupied. And from the bits of info available on Cruise Critic and other sites, it seems as though Carnival is doing everything possible to support this family during their incredibly difficult time.

OK, So if they didn't include the fact it was not a Carnival excursion in this letter, but rather released that detail in another letter or media outlet, what makes you think the victim's family wouldn't read / view / hear that other statement too?

 

 

 

I quoted that sentence, because that is exactly what they should have done. The letter, which was adressed to the passengers, was supossed to be a consoling/sympathetic letter. While the other letter, a press release if you will, can be direct and to the point of what the news agencies care to know about.

 

When did I ever say the family wouldn't read the letter? Again, fact is fact, and what happened was to be reported. I don't agree with the way they went about it. As previously stated, in my opinion it could've been handled better. Was it really necessary to point out to the passengers that the excursion wasn't a carnival excursion? Why? Can you answer that for me?

[sharecruises]

 

 

 

 

I quoted that sentence, because that is exactly what they should have done. The letter, which was adressed to the passengers, was supossed to be a consoling/sympathetic letter. While the other letter, a press release if you will, can be direct and to the point of what the news agencies care to know about.

 

When did I ever say the family wouldn't read the letter? Again, fact is fact, and what happened was to be reported. I don't agree with the way they went about it. As previously stated, in my opinion it could've been handled better. Was it really necessary to point out to the passengers that the excursion wasn't a carnival excursion? Why? Can you answer that for me?

 

 

You misquoted me and also another poster...and you stated "you are wrong" which is really ridiculous on a message board

 

Yes it was necessary to point that out to passengers cause otherwise knee jerk people would be yapping "they should sue Carnival"...and foolish media people would repeat the nonsense

 

You want YOUR opinion..fine...other people have different opinions...you need to learn how to use message boards and quotes

 

You not only misquoted us but you also reworded it to say "Oh by the way we didn't have anything to do with it"...that is just your wording, not his.

 

He did NOT say that...the letter conveyed their sympathy and also let passengers know that although it was not a Carnival excursion they suspended their own excursions to Coki

 

and ...as an update...although they were not responsible they have apparently paid for the expenses/travel for this poor family, paying for the funeral, refunding their cruise which is a wonderful gesture on Carnival's part

 

If you fly to Florida and get shot or drown in a rip tide I bet the airline you flew in on and the hotel you stay at are going to do zip, not to mention they don't get the blame for the tragedy

[LSEA]

 

 

 

 

I quoted that sentence, because that is exactly what they should have done. The letter, which was adressed to the passengers, was supossed to be a consoling/sympathetic letter. While the other letter, a press release if you will, can be direct and to the point of what the news agencies care to know about.

 

When did I ever say the family wouldn't read the letter? Again, fact is fact, and what happened was to be reported. I don't agree with the way they went about it. As previously stated, in my opinion it could've been handled better. Was it really necessary to point out to the passengers that the excursion wasn't a carnival excursion? Why? Can you answer that for me?

 

Because the other passengers would want to know? Do you think other passengers (and future passengers) wouldn't be asking that question? Asking that questions 1000's of times? Regardless of it really making a difference if it was a ship sponsored tour or not, people would still ask. And ask. And ask.

 

You disagree and are upset by the way Carnival worded this letter. That is your opinion and that is absolutely your right. You should contact CCL corporate headquarters and let them know. Totally understandable that you might want to spend you money elsewhere.

[guau]

 

 

EXCUSE ME....THAT IS MY OPINION...YOU HAVE YOURS...SAYING "YOU ARE WRONG" IS NOT AN OPTION HERE..THESE ARE OPINONS

 

 

Also...please learn how to use message boards..you have YOUR post as if it was written by me (quoted)

 

Yes the letter was addressed to the passengers..but it is NOW posted all over the internet..as they must have know it would be

 

Statiing facts is a good thing..and as others have said, it also cut down on speculation

 

Totally knee jerk thinking IMHO....in case you don't know..that means "in my humble opinion"

 

Carnival did nothing wrong....they stated facts

 

"I think your frustration and sadness is making you think this, but it is totally a knee jerk reaction."

 

I'm sorry you took offense to this, but you seem very contradictive. I'll explain for you;

 

How could you possibly know what I am thinking??? That's right, you don't. You can ONLY GUESS in your humble opinion. And since your quote was directed AT ME and not the general public, then I took the liberty of correcting you and letting you know that you were/are wrong. Remember, "Stating facts is a good thing, it also cut down on speculation." So why take offense?

 

"Also...please learn how to use message boards..you have YOUR post as if it was written by me (quoted)"

I apologize, I'll try to do better. You yourself could use a little help on your spelling. And again, please don't take offense; "Statiing facts is a good thing..and as others have said, it also cut down on speculation."

 

"Yes the letter was addressed to the passengers..but it is NOW posted all over the internet..as they must have know it would be"

Again, pure speculation on your part. Or do you work for Carnival? "As they must have know it would be". Sure, this is exactly what a company usually does.:rolleyes: They release a statement assuming what may happen. Let's not kid each other, cause it's not working.

 

"Totally knee jerk thinking IMHO....in case you don't know..that means "in my humble opinion"

Thank you for the clarification. As I pointed out to you above, YOUR humble opinion of what I was thinking was wrong. Once again, "Stating facts is a good thing, it also cut down on speculation."

 

Carnival did nothing wrong....they stated facts

Yes, that's your opinion and I happen to disagree with the way they handled it. So what?

 

EXCUSE ME....THAT IS MY OPINION...YOU HAVE YOURS...SAYING "YOU ARE WRONG" IS NOT AN OPTION HERE..THESE ARE OPINONS

Sigh, well, I just pointed out to you, that yes, you were indeed wrong. Now on the other hand, I'm wondering if I didn't clarify my last message correctly and/or you misunderstood it. :confused: I'll clarify now, and once again, I apologize if this was a misunderstanding. I meant to say; You are wrong in assuming what was going through my mind. Simple fact. I NEVER meant that you were wrong in YOUR opinion. Just because I don't agree with it, doesn't mean I don't respect it. You have yours and I have mine, simple as that.

[guau]

 

 

You misquoted me and also another poster...and you stated "you are wrong" which is really ridiculous on a message board

 

Yes it was necessary to point that out to passengers cause otherwise knee jerk people would be yapping "they should sue Carnival"...and foolish media people would repeat the nonsense

 

You want YOUR opinion..fine...other people have different opinions...you need to learn how to use message boards and quotes

 

You not only misquoted us but you also reworded it to say "Oh by the way we didn't have anything to do with it"...that is just your wording, not his.

 

He did NOT say that...the letter conveyed their sympathy and also let passengers know that although it was not a Carnival excursion they suspended their own excursions to Coki

 

and ...as an update...although they were not responsible they have apparently paid for the expenses/travel for this poor family, paying for the funeral, refunding their cruise which is a wonderful gesture on Carnival's part

 

If you fly to Florida and get shot or drown in a rip tide I bet the airline you flew in on and the hotel you stay at are going to do zip, not to mention they don't get the blame for the tragedy

 

I just replied to the other poster on saying she was wrong. Wrong about her opinion of what I was thinking.

 

Please show me where I misquoted you AND the other poster?

 

"Yes it was necessary to point that out to passengers cause otherwise knee jerk people would be yapping "they should sue Carnival"...and foolish media people would repeat the nonsense"

People are people no matter what, and they are going to talk no matter what. It's just the reality of the way things are and that little extra comment by carnival was not going to change that. Again, as I previously posted, there's nothing wrong with what they said, it's where they wrote it.

 

And yes, I know other people have different opinons. And I respect them. I will also correct them if they are assuming something of myself. What's wrong with that?

 

And yes, I know it was my wording and not the captain's. I never meant for it to be taken that I was quoting the captain, as I'm pretty sure several people who have read my post, have already read the captain's letter. So I don't think someone is going to read my post and assume that it was a direct quote. It's the very first post for crying out loud. When you take a statement like that, and stick it at the bottom of a sympathy letter, it seems way out of context. Which is why they may as well have written what I wrote.

 

Finally, as I have stated before, I applaud carnival when they do the right thing. I applaud them for what they are doing now, and do not agree with how they worded their letter to their passengers? Just my opinion. Fair?

[guau]

Because the other passengers would want to know? Do you think other passengers (and future passengers) wouldn't be asking that question? Asking that questions 1000's of times? Regardless of it really making a difference if it was a ship sponsored tour or not, people would still ask. And ask. And ask.

 

You disagree and are upset by the way Carnival worded this letter. That is your opinion and that is absolutely your right. You should contact CCL corporate headquarters and let them know. Totally understandable that you might want to spend you money elsewhere.

 

Yes, and the passengers have every right to know as I previously pointed out. My question is, what difference did it make whether it was a Carnival Excursion or independent? Did it really matter that much when they BOTH have EXACTLY THE SAME excursion? When they take the SAME road to the SAME place? What difference did that make?

[nrdsb4]

I find it interesting that there are some people on this thread expressing more anger and vitriol at the way the Carnival Captain worded his letter than they are towards the murderers who killed a young teenage girl. Seems a little off to me. JMO.;)

[nrdsb4]

I posted that thread and I don't understand why it was pulled. Threads about the pettiest of things linger on and on in these boards, but an informative thread about a great gesture by a cruise line gets pulled. Maybe it is because I'm usually at the RCI boards and they don't want me over at Carnival's?

 

It's not something I invented. It's something I translated directly from a newspaper and totally relevant to Carnival's customer base.

 

 

They would not pull a thread because you usually post on the RCI board.

 

If you translated an article or posted it verbatim rather than posting a link, you may have been in violation of copyright, which is against the rules of this board. That will definitely get a post pulled as news articles are protected by copyright.

[tbjl24]

I look at this way:

 

From what I can tell, the ship was on the 2nd port of 6 or 7 total?

 

Imagine the influx of Carnival excursion passengers running to the shore excursion desk or pursers desk demanding a refund because they felt unsafe. I have seen youtube videos of near mutiny on Carnival ships; Carnival doesn't need that happening again.

 

Like it or not, I can guarantee more than a few folks read that letter and thought, well, we are booked through the ship, we are safe.

 

It's a tragic event, everyone agrees. Arguing over a single sentence informing the guests what took place is absolutely asinine, imho.

 

Carnival handled it they way they deemed appropriate. Maybe there was ulterior motives, good luck proving it. Personally, I think it was PR damage control.

 

Whether or not you agree, is your opinion. No one is right or wrong.

[tbjl24]

Yes, and the passengers have every right to know as I previously pointed out. My question is, what difference did it make whether it was a Carnival Excursion or independent? Did it really matter that much when they BOTH have EXACTLY THE SAME excursion? When they take the SAME road to the SAME place? What difference did that make?

 

Who said it made a difference? Perhaps the Captain was just giving the facts of the event.

 

Was it necessary to the story? No. Maybe he is very thorough. I am imagine the Captain has written many reports for Carnival, perhaps it is habit to include as much as possible????

 

Just guessing, like you.

 

Very very sad, nonetheless.

[alwayshappytocruise]

I find it interesting that there are some people on this thread expressing more anger and vitriol at the way the Carnival Captain worded his letter than they are towards the murderers who killed a young teenage girl. Seems a little off to me. JMO.;)

 

 

I agree with you 200%. This bickering is truly disgusting and childish. ENOUGH already.

[guau]

I find it interesting that there are some people on this thread expressing more anger and vitriol at the way the Carnival Captain worded his letter than they are towards the murderers who killed a young teenage girl. Seems a little off to me. JMO.;)

 

Not that you were referring to me, but I for one am not necessarily "angrier" at the captain. I honestly believe someone else worded that letter for him and he just signed off on it. I just felt that it was like adding insult to injury is all. JMO;)

[nrdsb4]

Not that you were referring to me, but I for one am not necessarily "angrier" at the captain. I honestly believe someone else worded that letter for him and he just signed off on it. I just felt that it was like adding insult to injury is all. JMO;)

 

Yeah, we have gotten your point after you numerous posts on the matter. But let's not forget who the real bad guys here are.

[guau]

I agree with you 200%. This bickering is truly disgusting and childish. ENOUGH already.

 

Gee, I saw it more as a debate of different opinions between mature parties. Either way, I'm not about to start that again.:rolleyes: I'm done.

[guau]

I look at this way:

 

From what I can tell, the ship was on the 2nd port of 6 or 7 total?

 

Imagine the influx of Carnival excursion passengers running to the shore excursion desk or pursers desk demanding a refund because they felt unsafe. I have seen youtube videos of near mutiny on Carnival ships; Carnival doesn't need that happening again.

 

Like it or not, I can guarantee more than a few folks read that letter and thought, well, we are booked through the ship, we are safe.

 

It's a tragic event, everyone agrees. Arguing over a single sentence informing the guests what took place is absolutely asinine, imho.

 

Carnival handled it they way they deemed appropriate. Maybe there was ulterior motives, good luck proving it. Personally, I think it was PR damage control.

 

Whether or not you agree, is your opinion. No one is right or wrong.

 

 

Couldn't have said it better myself (and I didn't).;) I'm done with the debate, arguing, bickering, etc.

[Hunwolf]

Trying to parse someone's elses words and trying to find "hidden" meaning is going to be a fruitless endeavor. Just take it at it's face value and move on.

[Bunkie103]

i find it interesting that there are some people on this thread expressing more anger and vitriol at the way the carnival captain worded his letter than they are towards the murderers who killed a young teenage girl. Seems a little off to me. Jmo.;)

 

ditto!